Is excess weight preventing improvement in running?
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BusyRaeNOTBusty wrote: »My fast walk and my slow run are close to the same speed (but I don't use a treadmill). I'm hoping that the slow run will just get me used to the movement pattern and I can eventually speed up.
You will, my slow run has (finally) surpassed my fast walking speed. Not by much, but I'll take it for a success.1 -
Weight has a direct effect on how fast and long you can run. It's why you don't find endurance runners who are overweight.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
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Kickboxing Certified Instructor
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i think part of it @ninerbuff is it is extremely hard for them to keep up with their calorie burn1
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The rule of thumb I was able to glean from my triathlon coach is that you gain about 5 seconds on your mile time, on average, for every 1 pound of body weight you lose.
The excess weight is causing your body to use a lot of its resources just to fight gravity. Your heart is doing a lot of work to move your body, but don't despair because the fitness will serve you well as you lose weight. I know. I started my journey just above 300 lbs and am now down to 225 at age 55 m, so I have been dealing with a similar problem. I can now run a sub 8 minute mile whereas I couldn't run a 1/2 mile when I started. It is not yet at my goal pace of 6 minute/mile, but I'm making progress. If you're like me your fitness, even now, will shine through when you start to do non weight-bearing cardio exercises such as swimming and bicycling.
There is also a longer answer (which is best given by someone more qualified than me) about how you train that has to do with the frequency, intensity and duration of your training. For short distances (under an hour) improving your V02 max through interval training will have a relatively high priority. For longer distances, running at your FTP threshold becomes more important. But once you get into planning and periodizing your training like that you're a long way to your goal.4 -
TigerLily100 wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »Run slower
I run at 5mph.....slower is a brisk walk.
Can’t really get any slower.
I did try 4.5mph, my brain and legs were so out of sync, couldn’t get any rhythm going at all - it was harder than 5mph.
It does sound counter-intuitive but running slower is great advice. Try taking smaller strides also.1 -
Slow down, and get outside.
I'm 235ish right now, over the past 2 years I've been as high as 250 and as low as 225. none of which impeded my progressing to 20+ minute run intervals(very slowly) And while my slow run is faster than yours, I'm also a few inches taller. And I walk very briskly so I had to learn to run as slowly as I can walk. I'm a bit faster now, but on long runs, not a lot faster.1 -
ttippie2000 wrote: »The rule of thumb I was able to glean from my triathlon coach is that you gain about 5 seconds on your mile time, on average, for every 1 pound of body weight you lose.
The excess weight is causing your body to use a lot of its resources just to fight gravity. Your heart is doing a lot of work to move your body, but don't despair because the fitness will serve you well as you lose weight. I know. I started my journey just above 300 lbs and am now down to 225 at age 55 m, so I have been dealing with a similar problem. I can now run a sub 8 minute mile whereas I couldn't run a 1/2 mile when I started. It is not yet at my goal pace of 6 minute/mile, but I'm making progress. If you're like me your fitness, even now, will shine through when you start to do non weight-bearing cardio exercises such as swimming and bicycling.
There is also a longer answer (which is best given by someone more qualified than me) about how you train that has to do with the frequency, intensity and duration of your training. For short distances (under an hour) improving your V02 max through interval training will have a relatively high priority. For longer distances, running at your FTP threshold becomes more important. But once you get into planning and periodizing your training like that you're a long way to your goal.
Thing is, the bigger your body mass is, your heart does not get big as well, it might get a little fatty but it doesn't grow in size, think of it like a small engine of a sedan being put inside of a truck and expecting it to run the same. Weight, technically, body mass is key, put that sedan engine in a small scooter and suddenly you're the fastest scooter in the world.
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Partially, yes. A 10lb weight difference can add up over distance for a runner.
Yup. I gained 13 percent of my baseline weight over 8 months due to a medication error. My running time suffered for it.
It's part of why I stopped seeing the dietitian I'd been working with for ED-related issues. She kept insisting that I shouldn't focus on weight as an outcome, and that weight didn't matter. I understand that she was trying to not feed the ED, but trying to get me to focus off the scale while ignoring the reality that yes, weight *does* affect speed was a perfect way to get me to distrust her. (She's generally very smart, and is one of the top sports dietitians in the field. But I do not tolerate being lied to by someone who has never been overweight a day in her life.)
After running a half marathon slower at a heavier weight than I did when I was lighter *and* with a broken toe, I started googling. Well, sure enough, there is an impact. And the calculators I found showed that my "new" slower pace was precisely what was to be expected at this heavier weight.
I didn't have the weight to gain -- I'm now 10 pounds away from being overweight -- and I didn't have the run pace to lose. I'm now having to work twice as hard to get back to where I was when I was lighter -- both from a pace perspective and a weight perspective -- and it's made me resent running because I not longer feel competent at it, through no fault of my own.4 -
Just not true.tirowow12385 wrote: »ttippie2000 wrote: »The rule of thumb I was able to glean from my triathlon coach is that you gain about 5 seconds on your mile time, on average, for every 1 pound of body weight you lose.
The excess weight is causing your body to use a lot of its resources just to fight gravity. Your heart is doing a lot of work to move your body, but don't despair because the fitness will serve you well as you lose weight. I know. I started my journey just above 300 lbs and am now down to 225 at age 55 m, so I have been dealing with a similar problem. I can now run a sub 8 minute mile whereas I couldn't run a 1/2 mile when I started. It is not yet at my goal pace of 6 minute/mile, but I'm making progress. If you're like me your fitness, even now, will shine through when you start to do non weight-bearing cardio exercises such as swimming and bicycling.
There is also a longer answer (which is best given by someone more qualified than me) about how you train that has to do with the frequency, intensity and duration of your training. For short distances (under an hour) improving your V02 max through interval training will have a relatively high priority. For longer distances, running at your FTP threshold becomes more important. But once you get into planning and periodizing your training like that you're a long way to your goal.
Thing is, the bigger your body mass is, your heart does not get big as well, it might get a little fatty but it doesn't grow in size, think of it like a small engine of a sedan being put inside of a truck and expecting it to run the same. Weight, technically, body mass is key, put that sedan engine in a small scooter and suddenly you're the fastest scooter in the world.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1767992/
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Weight has a direct effect on how fast and long you can run. It's why you don't find endurance runners who are overweight.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Moreover, you find the world class runners are pushing their BMI to the underweight range.
Op doesn't need to be a thin Kenyan to be a world class runner, just that she can improve her time with a little weight loss.2 -
Weight has a direct effect on how fast and long you can run. It's why you don't find endurance runners who are overweight.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Not really. It depends how fast you want to be. I personally know many heavier distance runners.
http://fatgirlrunning-fatrunner.blogspot.com/
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stanmann571 wrote: »
Just not true.tirowow12385 wrote: »ttippie2000 wrote: »The rule of thumb I was able to glean from my triathlon coach is that you gain about 5 seconds on your mile time, on average, for every 1 pound of body weight you lose.
The excess weight is causing your body to use a lot of its resources just to fight gravity. Your heart is doing a lot of work to move your body, but don't despair because the fitness will serve you well as you lose weight. I know. I started my journey just above 300 lbs and am now down to 225 at age 55 m, so I have been dealing with a similar problem. I can now run a sub 8 minute mile whereas I couldn't run a 1/2 mile when I started. It is not yet at my goal pace of 6 minute/mile, but I'm making progress. If you're like me your fitness, even now, will shine through when you start to do non weight-bearing cardio exercises such as swimming and bicycling.
There is also a longer answer (which is best given by someone more qualified than me) about how you train that has to do with the frequency, intensity and duration of your training. For short distances (under an hour) improving your V02 max through interval training will have a relatively high priority. For longer distances, running at your FTP threshold becomes more important. But once you get into planning and periodizing your training like that you're a long way to your goal.
Thing is, the bigger your body mass is, your heart does not get big as well, it might get a little fatty but it doesn't grow in size, think of it like a small engine of a sedan being put inside of a truck and expecting it to run the same. Weight, technically, body mass is key, put that sedan engine in a small scooter and suddenly you're the fastest scooter in the world.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1767992/
Your source doesn't say your heart grows along with your body mass, so no, very true. Lol. your heart " enlarges" from the excess cardio it puts through but that's another topic and is not in context to what I said and my overall point.1 -
collectingblues wrote: »Partially, yes. A 10lb weight difference can add up over distance for a runner.
Yup. I gained 13 percent of my baseline weight over 8 months due to a medication error. My running time suffered for it.
It's part of why I stopped seeing the dietitian I'd been working with for ED-related issues. She kept insisting that I shouldn't focus on weight as an outcome, and that weight didn't matter. I understand that she was trying to not feed the ED, but trying to get me to focus off the scale while ignoring the reality that yes, weight *does* affect speed was a perfect way to get me to distrust her. (She's generally very smart, and is one of the top sports dietitians in the field. But I do not tolerate being lied to by someone who has never been overweight a day in her life.)
After running a half marathon slower at a heavier weight than I did when I was lighter *and* with a broken toe, I started googling. Well, sure enough, there is an impact. And the calculators I found showed that my "new" slower pace was precisely what was to be expected at this heavier weight.
I didn't have the weight to gain -- I'm now 10 pounds away from being overweight -- and I didn't have the run pace to lose. I'm now having to work twice as hard to get back to where I was when I was lighter -- both from a pace perspective and a weight perspective -- and it's made me resent running because I not longer feel competent at it, through no fault of my own.
Chin up, I'm 10 pounds away, from crossing into obesity, I started at morbid obesity and worked my way down to the present and the good thing is we have this app to get to the weight off.
I ran a 25 minute 5k just last week and I hope to get down to 20 soon if I get into my normal weight range, it's not a guarantee but the fun part is trying to set that PR.1 -
tirowow12385 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »
Just not true.tirowow12385 wrote: »ttippie2000 wrote: »The rule of thumb I was able to glean from my triathlon coach is that you gain about 5 seconds on your mile time, on average, for every 1 pound of body weight you lose.
The excess weight is causing your body to use a lot of its resources just to fight gravity. Your heart is doing a lot of work to move your body, but don't despair because the fitness will serve you well as you lose weight. I know. I started my journey just above 300 lbs and am now down to 225 at age 55 m, so I have been dealing with a similar problem. I can now run a sub 8 minute mile whereas I couldn't run a 1/2 mile when I started. It is not yet at my goal pace of 6 minute/mile, but I'm making progress. If you're like me your fitness, even now, will shine through when you start to do non weight-bearing cardio exercises such as swimming and bicycling.
There is also a longer answer (which is best given by someone more qualified than me) about how you train that has to do with the frequency, intensity and duration of your training. For short distances (under an hour) improving your V02 max through interval training will have a relatively high priority. For longer distances, running at your FTP threshold becomes more important. But once you get into planning and periodizing your training like that you're a long way to your goal.
Thing is, the bigger your body mass is, your heart does not get big as well, it might get a little fatty but it doesn't grow in size, think of it like a small engine of a sedan being put inside of a truck and expecting it to run the same. Weight, technically, body mass is key, put that sedan engine in a small scooter and suddenly you're the fastest scooter in the world.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1767992/
Your source doesn't say your heart grows along with your body mass, so no, very true. Lol. your heart " enlarges" from the excess cardio it puts through but that's another topic and is not in context to what I said and my overall point.
If you're Fat, and running a lot, your heart will get bigger.
That's how it works.
If you're skinny and running a lot, your heart will also get bigger.
So Yeah, If you work your heart it will grow.
The great part is that you don't have more miles of veins/arteries just because you're overweight, so the heart doesn't actually work that much harder if you're heavy.3 -
tirowow12385 wrote: »collectingblues wrote: »Partially, yes. A 10lb weight difference can add up over distance for a runner.
Yup. I gained 13 percent of my baseline weight over 8 months due to a medication error. My running time suffered for it.
It's part of why I stopped seeing the dietitian I'd been working with for ED-related issues. She kept insisting that I shouldn't focus on weight as an outcome, and that weight didn't matter. I understand that she was trying to not feed the ED, but trying to get me to focus off the scale while ignoring the reality that yes, weight *does* affect speed was a perfect way to get me to distrust her. (She's generally very smart, and is one of the top sports dietitians in the field. But I do not tolerate being lied to by someone who has never been overweight a day in her life.)
After running a half marathon slower at a heavier weight than I did when I was lighter *and* with a broken toe, I started googling. Well, sure enough, there is an impact. And the calculators I found showed that my "new" slower pace was precisely what was to be expected at this heavier weight.
I didn't have the weight to gain -- I'm now 10 pounds away from being overweight -- and I didn't have the run pace to lose. I'm now having to work twice as hard to get back to where I was when I was lighter -- both from a pace perspective and a weight perspective -- and it's made me resent running because I not longer feel competent at it, through no fault of my own.
Chin up, I'm 10 pounds away, from crossing into obesity, I started at morbid obesity and worked my way down to the present and the good thing is we have this app to get to the weight off.
I ran a 25 minute 5k just last week and I hope to get down to 20 soon if I get into my normal weight range, it's not a guarantee but the fun part is trying to set that PR.
tl;dr: Don't you dare tell me to chin up.
I know how to get weight off. I can't control outside factors, like physicians messing up my medication and not listening when I say there's a problem, or water retention from improving diabetes control.
Running *isn't* fun for me right now. I feel slow, and I'm not comfortable. I am having to work twice as hard to get back to what I had.
That's fantastic that you are having the opposite experience, but your experience is not the same as "I gained weight and my pace decreased."0 -
collectingblues wrote: »Partially, yes. A 10lb weight difference can add up over distance for a runner.
Yup. I gained 13 percent of my baseline weight over 8 months due to a medication error. My running time suffered for it.
It's part of why I stopped seeing the dietitian I'd been working with for ED-related issues. She kept insisting that I shouldn't focus on weight as an outcome, and that weight didn't matter. I understand that she was trying to not feed the ED, but trying to get me to focus off the scale while ignoring the reality that yes, weight *does* affect speed was a perfect way to get me to distrust her. (She's generally very smart, and is one of the top sports dietitians in the field. But I do not tolerate being lied to by someone who has never been overweight a day in her life.)
After running a half marathon slower at a heavier weight than I did when I was lighter *and* with a broken toe, I started googling. Well, sure enough, there is an impact. And the calculators I found showed that my "new" slower pace was precisely what was to be expected at this heavier weight.
I didn't have the weight to gain -- I'm now 10 pounds away from being overweight -- and I didn't have the run pace to lose. I'm now having to work twice as hard to get back to where I was when I was lighter -- both from a pace perspective and a weight perspective -- and it's made me resent running because I not longer feel competent at it, through no fault of my own.
Suck!!!!! Well, if you ever want to feel more competent running, run with me. I am on Team Turtle, I'm slow, but I'll get there...just takes me a while longer. (I am currently training for another 5k, my new goal is to not finish dead last for the runners).1 -
I was 250 lbs 44 yrs old when I started running. In addition to the slowing down..I have these thoughts.
You are a new runner. A few months is not enough time to say "I can't run slower" turn your mind to a positive and give yourself some time. Yes, you can run slower.
Get outside! It's a game changer!
How often are you running? Are you resting enough? Crosstraining?
Do you strength train? Another game changer. And Any other exercise? Bike, swim, yoga?
Good luck..and have fun. Believe it or not..this isn't a race, enjoy the journey.0 -
I've heard that 10 extra lbs. equates to a loss of 30s-1 min. per mile. My experience proves that to be about right. You can run and lose weight at the same time, just be careful not to decrease calories so much that you are not getting proper nutrients.
Be patient both with running improvement and weight loss.2 -
TigerLily100 wrote: »Hi all,
So I took up running a few months back and I love it BUT I am just not getting any better.
I am 46, 5’2” and 166lb.
Starting out I was so unfit 30 second running intervals with walking were hard and my heart rate peaked around 170.
I did progress to being able to run 2mins, walk 2mins x 10 totalling 40 mine plus 5 mins warm up and cool down - this in about a month.
But I cannot improve further, I have tried and tried. Both the legs and the lungs give out.
I am a good 3 stone overweight
Running is hard for me but it doesn’t stop me trying, but I am demoralised at a total lack of progress past 2 months.
Thoughts?
Do I need to shed some weight to see improvement? Would I be better going back to brisk walking? I ask this as I can brisk walk 10k no problem.
Thanks all
Keep going, you will be ALOT faster when you lose those 3 stones. (image from the book the secret of running)
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Thanks for the responses everyone.
Well I gave it another go this eve and slowed to 4mph - my normal walking pace.
I found this much harder than 5mph, it was way harder on my legs and I presume that’s because my leg muscles have gotten used to me running a certain way and strengthened accordingly a for 5mph gait.
I did find a bit of a rhythm though which was an improvement.
The lungs seemed the same.....
I am going to try an outdoor run on Friday because I agree, the treadmill is holding me back. I am just plain bored of it now.
To answer some questions: I run Monday, Wednesday and Friday which I think is sensible for a beginner.
I do strength train 3 times per week also and the odd cross train which can be cycling, elliptical or swimming.
I also horse ride 3 times per week.
I am reasonably fit for my age and have improved in everything bar this blooming running
Frustrating but I know if I can crack the running, I will start to see a whole new level of progress.
I think it will help with weight loss, and once I get on a roll, it will be a positive uphill spiral where the more I run the more I lose, and the more I lose the better I will run - that’s a winning formula to me
As someone said, you don’t see fat endurance runners!
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