Strength training before or after cardio

Avidkeo
Avidkeo Posts: 3,190 Member
I know this has probably been asked 100 times before but...

I've recently decided to change my focus from losing weight to building a bit of muscle while training for a half marathon. This means I'm doing a 5 day a week strength training programme with running. At the moment I'm running every work day at lunchtime - only around 3-4km with a long 8-10k run on a weekend day with the other day being a rest day.

My strength training program is sat till wed. I do it in the evenings on weeknights.

On my long run day, should I do my strength before or after my run? I feel after because my priority is run training with the strength to keep muscle mass With all the cardio.

Thanks

Replies

  • GrumpyHeadmistress
    GrumpyHeadmistress Posts: 666 Member
    I do double up (doing 20 mins on watt bike, 40 mins strength and then 30-40 mins run). However as my distance increases I might have to start separating them out. I hope not though.
  • mmapags
    mmapags Posts: 8,937 Member
    I wouldn't do strength training on the same day as long runs. You might be ok with it now, but you won't recover if you're doing both once your mileage increases.

    ^pretty much this. A general rule of thumb is do the exercise that is the greater priority first while you have the greatest energy. On the days of your shorter runs, it doesn't make a whole lot of difference.

    The bigger thing that jumped out at me is why a 5 day per week strength program? Something like that is usually a body builder spit. If you are fairly new to strength training, a full body, compound movement program 3x per week would be best in all likelihood. I'm doing a combined strength and hypertrophy program and it is only 4 days per week and I'm not training for running. Just as an example.
  • Avidkeo
    Avidkeo Posts: 3,190 Member
    I wouldn't do strength training on the same day as long runs. You might be ok with it now, but you won't recover if you're doing both once your mileage increases.

    Yeah that occurred to me as I completed my run today. I decided to do my long run sat, and start the program Sunday
  • Avidkeo
    Avidkeo Posts: 3,190 Member
    edited June 2018
    mmapags wrote: »
    I wouldn't do strength training on the same day as long runs. You might be ok with it now, but you won't recover if you're doing both once your mileage increases.

    ^pretty much this. A general rule of thumb is do the exercise that is the greater priority first while you have the greatest energy. On the days of your shorter runs, it doesn't make a whole lot of difference.

    The bigger thing that jumped out at me is why a 5 day per week strength program? Something like that is usually a body builder spit. If you are fairly new to strength training, a full body, compound movement program 3x per week would be best in all likelihood. I'm doing a combined strength and hypertrophy program and it is only 4 days per week and I'm not training for running. Just as an example.

    It's fitness blenders strong program. It's basically lower body twice a week, upper body twice a week and a HIIT or core day in the middle.
    Im not lifting particularly heavy, between 3 - 8 kg max per hand for most exercises (12 kg per hand for deadlifts) so it sounds like a lot but it's not really

    ETA I've been lifting for about 1.5 years, but only about twice a week. And each session is only 40 mins max including warm up and cool down.
  • mmapags
    mmapags Posts: 8,937 Member
    Avidkeo wrote: »
    mmapags wrote: »
    I wouldn't do strength training on the same day as long runs. You might be ok with it now, but you won't recover if you're doing both once your mileage increases.

    ^pretty much this. A general rule of thumb is do the exercise that is the greater priority first while you have the greatest energy. On the days of your shorter runs, it doesn't make a whole lot of difference.

    The bigger thing that jumped out at me is why a 5 day per week strength program? Something like that is usually a body builder spit. If you are fairly new to strength training, a full body, compound movement program 3x per week would be best in all likelihood. I'm doing a combined strength and hypertrophy program and it is only 4 days per week and I'm not training for running. Just as an example.

    It's fitness blenders strong program. It's basically lower body twice a week, upper body twice a week and a HIIT or core day in the middle.
    Im not lifting particularly heavy, between 3 - 8 kg max per hand for most exercises (12 kg per hand for deadlifts) so it sounds like a lot but it's not really

    ETA I've been lifting for about 1.5 years, but only about twice a week. And each session is only 40 mins max including warm up and cool down.

    Ok, I see. That program likely won't interfere too much. But, while it may give you some muscle conditioning, it won't result in muscle growth (hypertrophy) If building muscle is your goal, eating in slight surplus and the right type of program can do that.
  • TavistockToad
    TavistockToad Posts: 35,719 Member
    Avidkeo wrote: »
    I wouldn't do strength training on the same day as long runs. You might be ok with it now, but you won't recover if you're doing both once your mileage increases.

    Yeah that occurred to me as I completed my run today. I decided to do my long run sat, and start the program Sunday

    Just don't do legs on that Sunday and you should be fine
  • Avidkeo
    Avidkeo Posts: 3,190 Member
    Studies have found that cardio inhibits muscle growth whether you do it before or after lifting. Not the answer anyone wants to hear, I realize.

    What sort of time do you need to leave between them then?
  • Avidkeo
    Avidkeo Posts: 3,190 Member
    Avidkeo wrote: »
    I wouldn't do strength training on the same day as long runs. You might be ok with it now, but you won't recover if you're doing both once your mileage increases.

    Yeah that occurred to me as I completed my run today. I decided to do my long run sat, and start the program Sunday

    Just don't do legs on that Sunday and you should be fine

    Oh really? Why? That's what I have planned but can switch it out
  • TavistockToad
    TavistockToad Posts: 35,719 Member
    Avidkeo wrote: »
    Avidkeo wrote: »
    I wouldn't do strength training on the same day as long runs. You might be ok with it now, but you won't recover if you're doing both once your mileage increases.

    Yeah that occurred to me as I completed my run today. I decided to do my long run sat, and start the program Sunday

    Just don't do legs on that Sunday and you should be fine

    Oh really? Why? That's what I have planned but can switch it out

    Because your long run will be hard on your legs - as it's a long run. You need to rest them.
  • firef1y72
    firef1y72 Posts: 1,579 Member
    Avidkeo wrote: »
    Avidkeo wrote: »
    I wouldn't do strength training on the same day as long runs. You might be ok with it now, but you won't recover if you're doing both once your mileage increases.

    Yeah that occurred to me as I completed my run today. I decided to do my long run sat, and start the program Sunday

    Just don't do legs on that Sunday and you should be fine

    Oh really? Why? That's what I have planned but can switch it out

    Because your long run will be hard on your legs - as it's a long run. You need to rest them.

    ^^this^^^

    I strength train and I run, currently training for a half but have done a marathon. There comes a point when recovery from a long run is going to more than a day, for me that was around 17.5km and that was the point where I decided I had to abandon my heavy lifting programme and drop a lifting session. I'm back lifting now, but in the month before my half I'll probably again drop the program for a few weeks.
  • MikePfirrman
    MikePfirrman Posts: 3,305 Member
    edited June 2018
    I do a similar program but I row but don't run. I used to run. Same concepts actually either way. I row around 5 to 6 hours a week and lift 3 times. I keep one day a week for a rest day. You absolutely have to take a break between. On Sundays, I don't though because I just want to knock it out. My longer cardio sessions are 90 minutes or so (I might do 70/80 on the rower and maybe 10 on the Stairmaster). I lift whole body. I do a lot of compound stuff. I like Heavy KBs (up to around 1/3 body weight for swings). You just have to really have some juice/carbs and rest between (minimum an hour). Years ago, I had a mild case of Rhabdo (working out to the point of potentially life threatening). You have to be careful and make sure you're not overdoing. That day I did a 12 mile run and a 70 minute lift back to back. Idiotic when I look back on that. You can't really do a lot of powerful lifting when you're doing a lot of miles/meters, although I have known runners that separate and do 5X5 type lifting, but I can't handle that load.
  • CharlieBeansmomTracey
    CharlieBeansmomTracey Posts: 7,682 Member
    I do a similar program but I row but don't run. I used to run. Same concepts actually either way. I row around 5 to 6 hours a week and lift 3 times. I keep one day a week for a rest day. You absolutely have to take a break between. On Sundays, I don't though because I just want to knock it out. My longer cardio sessions are 90 minutes or so (I might do 70/80 on the rower and maybe 10 on the Stairmaster). I lift whole body. I do a lot of compound stuff. I like Heavy KBs (up to around 1/3 body weight for swings). You just have to really have some juice/carbs and rest between (minimum an hour). Years ago, I had a mild case of Rhabdo (working out to the point of potentially life threatening). You have to be careful and make sure you're not overdoing. That day I did a 12 mile run and a 70 minute lift back to back. Idiotic when I look back on that. You can't really do a lot of powerful lifting when you're doing a lot of miles/meters, although I have known runners that separate and do 5X5 type lifting, but I can't handle that load.

    this study states that exercise induced rhabdo is caused by many other factors not just over exercising https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2095254615000605. if you did this to the point of it being life threatening then I would not call that a mild case.