Advice in Goals
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dpr73
Posts: 495 Member
After several autopsies from several failed attempts at bulking up I have come to the conclusion that I usually fail because I bulk extremely conservatively (200 calorie surplus). Due to the slow progress, I fear it's not working and quit. The reason why, I believe, I cannot get fully behind my program and goals is because I am happy with my body appearance so don't want to ruin it with a bulk where fat is brought on board. However, as a 5'7.5 male, 23 and 138lbs, I don't like how light I am on the scale (my 5'5 GF is 119 so I feel uncomfortable being just 20 above her). Also, I wish I were stronger in the gym given my dedication to going frequently: bench reps: 140lbs 5x5, squat: 185lbs 5x5, and dead lift about 205lbs 5x5.
Given my list of pros for bulking (getting to a higher weight that I feel more comfortable with and gaining strength given that I feel weak) and my cons (I really love the way I look now quite a bit except for maybe my glutes which are thin), what is an appropriate fitness goal for me at this point? I am very dedicated and can devote myself to any mission I put myself behind but need to find the right goal for my needs.
Given my list of pros for bulking (getting to a higher weight that I feel more comfortable with and gaining strength given that I feel weak) and my cons (I really love the way I look now quite a bit except for maybe my glutes which are thin), what is an appropriate fitness goal for me at this point? I am very dedicated and can devote myself to any mission I put myself behind but need to find the right goal for my needs.
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Replies
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Well you stated your goal, yet you don’t want to put in the calories to get there to ruin your physique. Imo a 200 cal surplus can build strength and aesthetics. Sounds like a lack of a proper training program/ monitoring numbers1
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pinggolfer96 wrote: »Well you stated your goal, yet you don’t want to put in the calories to get there to ruin your physique. Imo a 200 cal surplus can build strength and aesthetics. Sounds like a lack of a proper training program/ monitoring numbers
Well the other wrinkle is I have recently taken up running which I found I enjoy...twice a week of 3-4.5 miles. Otherwise I think I have a fairly good program (the running is a killer for bulks I know) as I follow strong lifts0 -
pinggolfer96 wrote: »Well you stated your goal, yet you don’t want to put in the calories to get there to ruin your physique. Imo a 200 cal surplus can build strength and aesthetics. Sounds like a lack of a proper training program/ monitoring numbers
Well the other wrinkle is I have recently taken up running which I found I enjoy...twice a week of 3-4.5 miles. Otherwise I think I have a fairly good program (the running is a killer for bulks I know) as I follow strong lifts
Not if you're fueling it adequately (i.e., eating those calories back).
Two short runs a week isn't going to kill a bulk. If you were training for a marathon and running 30 miles a week, there would probably be cause for concern - but if you're scheduling those runs appropriately around your training and compensating for the calorie expenditure, you're probably not causing huge recovery issues.3 -
pinggolfer96 wrote: »Well you stated your goal, yet you don’t want to put in the calories to get there to ruin your physique. Imo a 200 cal surplus can build strength and aesthetics. Sounds like a lack of a proper training program/ monitoring numbers
Well the other wrinkle is I have recently taken up running which I found I enjoy...twice a week of 3-4.5 miles. Otherwise I think I have a fairly good program (the running is a killer for bulks I know) as I follow strong lifts
Not if you're fueling it adequately (i.e., eating those calories back).
Two short runs a week isn't going to kill a bulk. If you were training for a marathon and running 30 miles a week, there would probably be cause for concern - but if you're scheduling those runs appropriately around your training and compensating for the calorie expenditure, you're probably not causing huge recovery issues.
Okay thank you. Does anyone have a suggestion on how to appropriately think about this hulk so I can be successful? As I said before I typically get a bit scared of ruining what I've already worked hard to achieve in my current physique (lost 70lbs to get here) and end up quitting. So a better mindset is a must before I begin to even increase any calories and start training to build muscle0 -
Accept the fact that if you bulk, you're going to gain at least some fat. That is basically inevitable. Beyond that, it comes to setting your goals, sticking to it and trusting the process. Muscle gain does not happen fast no matter what you do (barring use of illegal substances), so buckle in and enjoy the ride.
Here are two reads which you should find helpful in setting your goals and having realistic expectations:
https://bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/general-philosophies-of-muscle-mass-gain.html/
https://bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/muscle-gain-math.html/0 -
Accept the fact that if you bulk, you're going to gain at least some fat. That is basically inevitable. Beyond that, it comes to setting your goals, sticking to it and trusting the process. Muscle gain does not happen fast no matter what you do (barring use of illegal substances), so buckle in and enjoy the ride.
Here are two reads which you should find helpful in setting your goals and having realistic expectations:
https://bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/general-philosophies-of-muscle-mass-gain.html/
https://bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/muscle-gain-math.html/
Thanks again for the information. Additionally, how should I balance social life while bulking. When maintaining, o tend to have more fun because on weekends I will usually not count about one meal on Saturday and Sunday. I save up around 1200-1400 calories for these meals out and it allows me to go out and enjoy my company (girlfriend, friends, family). Sometimes I also use those calories for some alcohol. However, traditionally when bulking I get really strict and it severely limits my ability to go out and enjoy myself as I am afraid of losing muscle gains or increasing fat. I never go crazy (I'm extremely moderate when going out as it is). So how should I approach these situations when bulking?0 -
Accept the fact that if you bulk, you're going to gain at least some fat. That is basically inevitable. Beyond that, it comes to setting your goals, sticking to it and trusting the process. Muscle gain does not happen fast no matter what you do (barring use of illegal substances), so buckle in and enjoy the ride.
Here are two reads which you should find helpful in setting your goals and having realistic expectations:
https://bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/general-philosophies-of-muscle-mass-gain.html/
https://bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/muscle-gain-math.html/
Thanks again for the information. Additionally, how should I balance social life while bulking. When maintaining, o tend to have more fun because on weekends I will usually not count about one meal on Saturday and Sunday. I save up around 1200-1400 calories for these meals out and it allows me to go out and enjoy my company (girlfriend, friends, family). Sometimes I also use those calories for some alcohol. However, traditionally when bulking I get really strict and it severely limits my ability to go out and enjoy myself as I am afraid of losing muscle gains or increasing fat. I never go crazy (I'm extremely moderate when going out as it is). So how should I approach these situations when bulking?
My advice would be to loosen up a little. While you don't want to be shoveling so much food in that you gain too fast, bulking is a time to not be so strict and allow yourself to enjoy.
This article might help you get over your bulking fears and hangups
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/1069962/the-former-fat-boy-girl-syndrome/p1
1 -
Accept the fact that if you bulk, you're going to gain at least some fat. That is basically inevitable. Beyond that, it comes to setting your goals, sticking to it and trusting the process. Muscle gain does not happen fast no matter what you do (barring use of illegal substances), so buckle in and enjoy the ride.
Here are two reads which you should find helpful in setting your goals and having realistic expectations:
https://bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/general-philosophies-of-muscle-mass-gain.html/
https://bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/muscle-gain-math.html/
Thanks again for the information. Additionally, how should I balance social life while bulking. When maintaining, o tend to have more fun because on weekends I will usually not count about one meal on Saturday and Sunday. I save up around 1200-1400 calories for these meals out and it allows me to go out and enjoy my company (girlfriend, friends, family). Sometimes I also use those calories for some alcohol. However, traditionally when bulking I get really strict and it severely limits my ability to go out and enjoy myself as I am afraid of losing muscle gains or increasing fat. I never go crazy (I'm extremely moderate when going out as it is). So how should I approach these situations when bulking?
My advice would be to loosen up a little. While you don't want to be shoveling so much food in that you gain too fast, bulking is a time to not be so strict and allow yourself to enjoy.
This article might help you get over your bulking fears and hangups
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/1069962/the-former-fat-boy-girl-syndrome/p1
I have read that thread time and again. For some reason that FFB syndrome is pretty tightly ingrained in my psyche. I go on a roller coaster of "I look great as is don't want to ruin it" (which I do think it generally true) and "I could get stronger and maybe even make my appearance even better" (which is probably also true but tough on me mentally)0 -
Accept the fact that if you bulk, you're going to gain at least some fat. That is basically inevitable. Beyond that, it comes to setting your goals, sticking to it and trusting the process. Muscle gain does not happen fast no matter what you do (barring use of illegal substances), so buckle in and enjoy the ride.
Here are two reads which you should find helpful in setting your goals and having realistic expectations:
https://bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/general-philosophies-of-muscle-mass-gain.html/
https://bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/muscle-gain-math.html/
Thanks again for the information. Additionally, how should I balance social life while bulking. When maintaining, o tend to have more fun because on weekends I will usually not count about one meal on Saturday and Sunday. I save up around 1200-1400 calories for these meals out and it allows me to go out and enjoy my company (girlfriend, friends, family). Sometimes I also use those calories for some alcohol. However, traditionally when bulking I get really strict and it severely limits my ability to go out and enjoy myself as I am afraid of losing muscle gains or increasing fat. I never go crazy (I'm extremely moderate when going out as it is). So how should I approach these situations when bulking?
My advice would be to loosen up a little. While you don't want to be shoveling so much food in that you gain too fast, bulking is a time to not be so strict and allow yourself to enjoy.
This article might help you get over your bulking fears and hangups
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/1069962/the-former-fat-boy-girl-syndrome/p1
I have read that thread time and again. For some reason that FFB syndrome is pretty tightly ingrained in my psyche. I go on a roller coaster of "I look great as is don't want to ruin it" (which I do think it generally true) and "I could get stronger and maybe even make my appearance even better" (which is probably also true but tough on me mentally)
It comes a point where you have to do what you have to do.
At the end of the day being terrified of some fat gain will hold you back in the muscle building department.
My advice would be to learn to get over the mental hurdles of some fat gain if you are serious about putting on mass. Otherwise as soon as a bit of weight comes on you are going to be trying to figure out ways to cut calories, add cardio and do all kinds of suboptimal things that can really hold you back in the end and you will spin your wheels for even more years and years without significant results.0 -
Accept the fact that if you bulk, you're going to gain at least some fat. That is basically inevitable. Beyond that, it comes to setting your goals, sticking to it and trusting the process. Muscle gain does not happen fast no matter what you do (barring use of illegal substances), so buckle in and enjoy the ride.
Here are two reads which you should find helpful in setting your goals and having realistic expectations:
https://bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/general-philosophies-of-muscle-mass-gain.html/
https://bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/muscle-gain-math.html/
Thanks again for the information. Additionally, how should I balance social life while bulking. When maintaining, o tend to have more fun because on weekends I will usually not count about one meal on Saturday and Sunday. I save up around 1200-1400 calories for these meals out and it allows me to go out and enjoy my company (girlfriend, friends, family). Sometimes I also use those calories for some alcohol. However, traditionally when bulking I get really strict and it severely limits my ability to go out and enjoy myself as I am afraid of losing muscle gains or increasing fat. I never go crazy (I'm extremely moderate when going out as it is). So how should I approach these situations when bulking?
My advice would be to loosen up a little. While you don't want to be shoveling so much food in that you gain too fast, bulking is a time to not be so strict and allow yourself to enjoy.
This article might help you get over your bulking fears and hangups
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/1069962/the-former-fat-boy-girl-syndrome/p1
I have read that thread time and again. For some reason that FFB syndrome is pretty tightly ingrained in my psyche. I go on a roller coaster of "I look great as is don't want to ruin it" (which I do think it generally true) and "I could get stronger and maybe even make my appearance even better" (which is probably also true but tough on me mentally)
It comes a point where you have to do what you have to do.
At the end of the day being terrified of some fat gain will hold you back in the muscle building department.
My advice would be to learn to get over the mental hurdles of some fat gain if you are serious about putting on mass. Otherwise as soon as a bit of weight comes on you are going to be trying to figure out ways to cut calories, add cardio and do all kinds of suboptimal things that can really hold you back in the end and you will spin your wheels for even more years and years without significant results.
You're very correct. I do need to get over that hurdle. Also, when I do reading, I see a lot of talk about beginners vs. intermediate vs. advanced. Given my lifts (listed above) and that I've been lifting consistently for about 5 years or 6 years now, would I be considered intermediate or am I still beginner because I haven't gone into a truly successful bulking program yet?0 -
Accept the fact that if you bulk, you're going to gain at least some fat. That is basically inevitable. Beyond that, it comes to setting your goals, sticking to it and trusting the process. Muscle gain does not happen fast no matter what you do (barring use of illegal substances), so buckle in and enjoy the ride.
Here are two reads which you should find helpful in setting your goals and having realistic expectations:
https://bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/general-philosophies-of-muscle-mass-gain.html/
https://bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/muscle-gain-math.html/
Thanks again for the information. Additionally, how should I balance social life while bulking. When maintaining, o tend to have more fun because on weekends I will usually not count about one meal on Saturday and Sunday. I save up around 1200-1400 calories for these meals out and it allows me to go out and enjoy my company (girlfriend, friends, family). Sometimes I also use those calories for some alcohol. However, traditionally when bulking I get really strict and it severely limits my ability to go out and enjoy myself as I am afraid of losing muscle gains or increasing fat. I never go crazy (I'm extremely moderate when going out as it is). So how should I approach these situations when bulking?
My advice would be to loosen up a little. While you don't want to be shoveling so much food in that you gain too fast, bulking is a time to not be so strict and allow yourself to enjoy.
This article might help you get over your bulking fears and hangups
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/1069962/the-former-fat-boy-girl-syndrome/p1
I have read that thread time and again. For some reason that FFB syndrome is pretty tightly ingrained in my psyche. I go on a roller coaster of "I look great as is don't want to ruin it" (which I do think it generally true) and "I could get stronger and maybe even make my appearance even better" (which is probably also true but tough on me mentally)
It comes a point where you have to do what you have to do.
At the end of the day being terrified of some fat gain will hold you back in the muscle building department.
My advice would be to learn to get over the mental hurdles of some fat gain if you are serious about putting on mass. Otherwise as soon as a bit of weight comes on you are going to be trying to figure out ways to cut calories, add cardio and do all kinds of suboptimal things that can really hold you back in the end and you will spin your wheels for even more years and years without significant results.
You're very correct. I do need to get over that hurdle. Also, when I do reading, I see a lot of talk about beginners vs. intermediate vs. advanced. Given my lifts (listed above) and that I've been lifting consistently for about 5 years or 6 years now, would I be considered intermediate or am I still beginner because I haven't gone into a truly successful bulking program yet?
While it is important to take into account how long you have been lifting and strength, I think most important is progression especially when it comes to the difference between beginner and intermediate. How are you progressing in your program, if you running a beginner program and are still making progress and strength gains with linear programming, you can keep running it. On the other hand if you are stalling out and feel like the newb gains have worn off, you might be ready to move on to something more periodized. Again you want to be consistent over time and make sure your programming is adequate, diet is dialed in before you start to move on to something more intermediate or advanced.0 -
Accept the fact that if you bulk, you're going to gain at least some fat. That is basically inevitable. Beyond that, it comes to setting your goals, sticking to it and trusting the process. Muscle gain does not happen fast no matter what you do (barring use of illegal substances), so buckle in and enjoy the ride.
Here are two reads which you should find helpful in setting your goals and having realistic expectations:
https://bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/general-philosophies-of-muscle-mass-gain.html/
https://bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/muscle-gain-math.html/
Thanks again for the information. Additionally, how should I balance social life while bulking. When maintaining, o tend to have more fun because on weekends I will usually not count about one meal on Saturday and Sunday. I save up around 1200-1400 calories for these meals out and it allows me to go out and enjoy my company (girlfriend, friends, family). Sometimes I also use those calories for some alcohol. However, traditionally when bulking I get really strict and it severely limits my ability to go out and enjoy myself as I am afraid of losing muscle gains or increasing fat. I never go crazy (I'm extremely moderate when going out as it is). So how should I approach these situations when bulking?
My advice would be to loosen up a little. While you don't want to be shoveling so much food in that you gain too fast, bulking is a time to not be so strict and allow yourself to enjoy.
This article might help you get over your bulking fears and hangups
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/1069962/the-former-fat-boy-girl-syndrome/p1
I have read that thread time and again. For some reason that FFB syndrome is pretty tightly ingrained in my psyche. I go on a roller coaster of "I look great as is don't want to ruin it" (which I do think it generally true) and "I could get stronger and maybe even make my appearance even better" (which is probably also true but tough on me mentally)
It comes a point where you have to do what you have to do.
At the end of the day being terrified of some fat gain will hold you back in the muscle building department.
My advice would be to learn to get over the mental hurdles of some fat gain if you are serious about putting on mass. Otherwise as soon as a bit of weight comes on you are going to be trying to figure out ways to cut calories, add cardio and do all kinds of suboptimal things that can really hold you back in the end and you will spin your wheels for even more years and years without significant results.
You're very correct. I do need to get over that hurdle. Also, when I do reading, I see a lot of talk about beginners vs. intermediate vs. advanced. Given my lifts (listed above) and that I've been lifting consistently for about 5 years or 6 years now, would I be considered intermediate or am I still beginner because I haven't gone into a truly successful bulking program yet?
https://symmetricstrength.com/standards#/
There are a few others but most are based on 1RM. From your stats most of your lifts are at the trail end of "Novice" and starting into "Intermediate". You should be solidly into "Advanced" on most lifts if not high intermediate considering you lifting history. However, programming and lack of any type of real bulk are a consideration. The good news is that you still have plenty of potential and ability to progress pretty rapidly if you choose, as you are nowhere near your genetic natural max.
You mention that you are very happy with your appearance and seem mostly concerned with strength. You aren't weak by any standard and are strong enough to not be limited for most athletic activity.
Do you have any pics? If you are happy with it - that's all that really matters; but I'm curious because of your stated stats.0 -
jseams1234 wrote: »Accept the fact that if you bulk, you're going to gain at least some fat. That is basically inevitable. Beyond that, it comes to setting your goals, sticking to it and trusting the process. Muscle gain does not happen fast no matter what you do (barring use of illegal substances), so buckle in and enjoy the ride.
Here are two reads which you should find helpful in setting your goals and having realistic expectations:
https://bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/general-philosophies-of-muscle-mass-gain.html/
https://bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/muscle-gain-math.html/
Thanks again for the information. Additionally, how should I balance social life while bulking. When maintaining, o tend to have more fun because on weekends I will usually not count about one meal on Saturday and Sunday. I save up around 1200-1400 calories for these meals out and it allows me to go out and enjoy my company (girlfriend, friends, family). Sometimes I also use those calories for some alcohol. However, traditionally when bulking I get really strict and it severely limits my ability to go out and enjoy myself as I am afraid of losing muscle gains or increasing fat. I never go crazy (I'm extremely moderate when going out as it is). So how should I approach these situations when bulking?
My advice would be to loosen up a little. While you don't want to be shoveling so much food in that you gain too fast, bulking is a time to not be so strict and allow yourself to enjoy.
This article might help you get over your bulking fears and hangups
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/1069962/the-former-fat-boy-girl-syndrome/p1
I have read that thread time and again. For some reason that FFB syndrome is pretty tightly ingrained in my psyche. I go on a roller coaster of "I look great as is don't want to ruin it" (which I do think it generally true) and "I could get stronger and maybe even make my appearance even better" (which is probably also true but tough on me mentally)
It comes a point where you have to do what you have to do.
At the end of the day being terrified of some fat gain will hold you back in the muscle building department.
My advice would be to learn to get over the mental hurdles of some fat gain if you are serious about putting on mass. Otherwise as soon as a bit of weight comes on you are going to be trying to figure out ways to cut calories, add cardio and do all kinds of suboptimal things that can really hold you back in the end and you will spin your wheels for even more years and years without significant results.
You're very correct. I do need to get over that hurdle. Also, when I do reading, I see a lot of talk about beginners vs. intermediate vs. advanced. Given my lifts (listed above) and that I've been lifting consistently for about 5 years or 6 years now, would I be considered intermediate or am I still beginner because I haven't gone into a truly successful bulking program yet?
https://symmetricstrength.com/standards#/
There are a few others but most are based on 1RM. From your stats most of your lifts are at the trail end of "Novice" and starting into "Intermediate". You should be solidly into "Advanced" on most lifts if not high intermediate considering you lifting history. However, programming and lack of any type of real bulk are a consideration. The good news is that you still have plenty of potential and ability to progress pretty rapidly if you choose, as you are nowhere near your genetic natural max.
You mention that you are very happy with your appearance and seem mostly concerned with strength. You aren't weak by any standard and are strong enough to not be limited for most athletic activity.
Do you have any pics? If you are happy with it - that's all that really matters; but I'm curious because of your stated stats.
I am going to PM you1
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