Running Advice from pro or long time runners
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Yes, it is true. I am not the most prudent runner to be giving advice.
I ran and played soccer with plantar fasciitis for 10 years before I was able to get it better. So take what I say with a grain of salt.
People need to be smart enough to know when to go to the doctor of physio, and it is not possible to judge when that is over the internet.
BUT, the fact is: People who do strenuous activities get dings and nicks and nagging injuries all the time.
When i say that statistics suggest that half of runners get an injury every year, those 'injuries' referred to by those statistics are injuries that the runners said impacted their training somehow -- meaning they had to take time off from running or they had to curb the distances they ran or something like that.
But it doesn't count the other myriad little, niggling injuries -- like a slightly strained ankle or a sore quad -- that every runner knows that you get, probably more often.
So, really, it is more than half of runners who have to deal with some kind of an injury in a year -- maybe two or three...
If we always waited only until we were 100 percent, most of us would never run and we certainly would never run enough to get any better.2 -
GiddyupTim wrote: »Yes, it is true. I am not the most prudent runner to be giving advice.
I ran and played soccer with plantar fasciitis for 10 years before I was able to get it better. So take what I say with a grain of salt.
People need to be smart enough to know when to go to the doctor of physio, and it is not possible to judge when that is over the internet.
BUT, the fact is: People who do strenuous activities get dings and nicks and nagging injuries all the time.
When i say that statistics suggest that half of runners get an injury every year, those 'injuries' referred to by those statistics are injuries that the runners said impacted their training somehow -- meaning they had to take time off from running or they had to curb the distances they ran or something like that.
But it doesn't count the other myriad little, niggling injuries -- like a slightly strained ankle or a sore quad -- that every runner knows that you get, probably more often.
So, really, it is more than half of runners who have to deal with some kind of an injury in a year -- maybe two or three...
If we always waited only until we were 100 percent, most of us would never run and we certainly would never run enough to get any better.
Very true. I have been running for 20+ years. I have had to seek professional advice regarding running related injuries twice during that time, but I can't remember the last time I did not have something nagging me. I am currently dealing with hamstring tendinitis. This is one of the injuries I saw a physical therapist for last spring. I have come to realize that it will probably never heal completely unless I stop running. But I have also come to realize that I am more miserable not running than I am from the pain of my injury, so I just do the best I can at managing it in the form of more rest days, more cross training, strength training and stretching. It just comes with the territory, especially as we get older.0 -
LeanButNotMean44 wrote: »GiddyupTim wrote: »Try better insoles in your shoes, like Superfeet.
Or, maybe you are due for a new pair if you bought them last year.
Then, ice afterwards. (The other thing often recommended is an anti-inflammatory, like aspirin or ibuprofen, but I would advise against reliance on that. They probably interfere with healing.)
I don't mean to sound unsympathetic. But, do you want to be a runner? Then suck it up and keep running.
Most long-term runners are long-term because they simply run through these things. Medical experts estimate that half of runners gets injured every year. That sounds about right to me. Running through an injury probably makes the healing take a bit longer. But it probably also ultimately makes you stronger.
You could cut the mileage a bit until the pain gets somewhat better. But runners run -- hot, cold, rain, shine, pain, no pain.
See a doc if you need to, but keep running.
I don’t agree with the advice to suck it up and run through pain. I had PF, ran through it, and ended up tearing my plantar fascia. I have heard the same thing happening to others. I also ran through a stress fracture in my foot and now have arthritis in that foot.
For sure running through DISCOMFORT is necessary, but pain is different and shouldn’t be ignored.
Ditto, I agree. This is terrible advice. I ran through peroneal tendinitis and ended up with crutches and a boot for weeks.1 -
I ran through pain for over a year. I absolutely loved trail running. I would enter 3 to 7 mile races and it was the best thing I've ever done athletically. Chronic runners knee took the joy out of running for me. I had to start doing only Stationary bike and rowing to stop the pain and found out I loved rowing as much as running, though there are times I really miss the trails.
For me, the straw that broke the camels back was I would sit inflammed for hours (sometimes 2/3 hours) after every run. That's not healthy. Inflammation can wreak havoc on your body. When logic kicked in over my passion for running, I started feeling a ton better. I still miss the outdoors and running but I'd be lying if I didn't say I love the lack of pain more.
Rowing (for some) is a great transition -- very similar training, cardio efficiency and data overload that running has. I know a lot of older runners that have found indoor rowing (and outdoor rowing) and wish they had transitioned sooner. Many can just run into their 70s or later. I'm astounded by those people and envious too.
One of my worst running memories was staying with a guy probably in his late 60s/early 70s that had his knee completely dislocate on him on a soggy course (horrible course, had like 3 inches of rain the two days before). I had that happen to me in my early 40s and it's traumatic as hell. I was running my best race ever at the time but wanted to stay with him so he didn't go into shock. I felt just awful with him knowing that might be his last race. It's very sad when you love running and realize you can't any longer.
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amymoreorless wrote: »LeanButNotMean44 wrote: »GiddyupTim wrote: »Try better insoles in your shoes, like Superfeet.
Or, maybe you are due for a new pair if you bought them last year.
Then, ice afterwards. (The other thing often recommended is an anti-inflammatory, like aspirin or ibuprofen, but I would advise against reliance on that. They probably interfere with healing.)
I don't mean to sound unsympathetic. But, do you want to be a runner? Then suck it up and keep running.
Most long-term runners are long-term because they simply run through these things. Medical experts estimate that half of runners gets injured every year. That sounds about right to me. Running through an injury probably makes the healing take a bit longer. But it probably also ultimately makes you stronger.
You could cut the mileage a bit until the pain gets somewhat better. But runners run -- hot, cold, rain, shine, pain, no pain.
See a doc if you need to, but keep running.
I don’t agree with the advice to suck it up and run through pain. I had PF, ran through it, and ended up tearing my plantar fascia. I have heard the same thing happening to others. I also ran through a stress fracture in my foot and now have arthritis in that foot.
For sure running through DISCOMFORT is necessary, but pain is different and shouldn’t be ignored.
Ditto, I agree. This is terrible advice. I ran through peroneal tendinitis and ended up with crutches and a boot for weeks.
Sigh.
Nobody said there aren't serious injuries.
Nobody said there aren't times when you have to have wisdom enough to seek medical advice.
But, let's face it, strenuous physical activity will take a toll. At times, and at some point, you're just going to have to suck it up, buttercup, if you want to do demanding exercise.
Even the professionals get repetitive motion and overuse injuries.
I am sorry you guys got serious injuries. I would argue, however, that it is better to be active and reap the consequences, than to be timid and sedentary and reap the consequences of that.4 -
GiddyupTim wrote: »amymoreorless wrote: »LeanButNotMean44 wrote: »GiddyupTim wrote: »Try better insoles in your shoes, like Superfeet.
Or, maybe you are due for a new pair if you bought them last year.
Then, ice afterwards. (The other thing often recommended is an anti-inflammatory, like aspirin or ibuprofen, but I would advise against reliance on that. They probably interfere with healing.)
I don't mean to sound unsympathetic. But, do you want to be a runner? Then suck it up and keep running.
Most long-term runners are long-term because they simply run through these things. Medical experts estimate that half of runners gets injured every year. That sounds about right to me. Running through an injury probably makes the healing take a bit longer. But it probably also ultimately makes you stronger.
You could cut the mileage a bit until the pain gets somewhat better. But runners run -- hot, cold, rain, shine, pain, no pain.
See a doc if you need to, but keep running.
I don’t agree with the advice to suck it up and run through pain. I had PF, ran through it, and ended up tearing my plantar fascia. I have heard the same thing happening to others. I also ran through a stress fracture in my foot and now have arthritis in that foot.
For sure running through DISCOMFORT is necessary, but pain is different and shouldn’t be ignored.
Ditto, I agree. This is terrible advice. I ran through peroneal tendinitis and ended up with crutches and a boot for weeks.
Sigh.
Nobody said there aren't serious injuries.
Nobody said there aren't times when you have to have wisdom enough to seek medical advice.
But, let's face it, strenuous physical activity will take a toll. At times, and at some point, you're just going to have to suck it up, buttercup, if you want to do demanding exercise.
Even the professionals get repetitive motion and overuse injuries.
I am sorry you guys got serious injuries. I would argue, however, that it is better to be active and reap the consequences, than to be timid and sedentary and reap the consequences of that.
I don't think anyone is suggesting to be timid and sedentary...and there's a difference between working through a little discomfort and soreness or being a little nicked up and running and pushing through an full on injury.
I have posterior tibial tendinitis that flares up from time to time. As per my podiatrist, even walking too much while it's flared up risks a full rupture and my arch collapsing...not quite the same thing as a little soreness in a quad or something.
As to the OP...my tendinitis is one of the primary reasons I stopped running and turned to my bike as my primary cardio. I was getting flare ups on a regular basis from running...like pretty much every month or two. I get maybe one or two a year now cycling.3 -
GiddyupTim wrote: »amymoreorless wrote: »LeanButNotMean44 wrote: »GiddyupTim wrote: »Try better insoles in your shoes, like Superfeet.
Or, maybe you are due for a new pair if you bought them last year.
Then, ice afterwards. (The other thing often recommended is an anti-inflammatory, like aspirin or ibuprofen, but I would advise against reliance on that. They probably interfere with healing.)
I don't mean to sound unsympathetic. But, do you want to be a runner? Then suck it up and keep running.
Most long-term runners are long-term because they simply run through these things. Medical experts estimate that half of runners gets injured every year. That sounds about right to me. Running through an injury probably makes the healing take a bit longer. But it probably also ultimately makes you stronger.
You could cut the mileage a bit until the pain gets somewhat better. But runners run -- hot, cold, rain, shine, pain, no pain.
See a doc if you need to, but keep running.
I don’t agree with the advice to suck it up and run through pain. I had PF, ran through it, and ended up tearing my plantar fascia. I have heard the same thing happening to others. I also ran through a stress fracture in my foot and now have arthritis in that foot.
For sure running through DISCOMFORT is necessary, but pain is different and shouldn’t be ignored.
Ditto, I agree. This is terrible advice. I ran through peroneal tendinitis and ended up with crutches and a boot for weeks.
Sigh.
Nobody said there aren't serious injuries.
Nobody said there aren't times when you have to have wisdom enough to seek medical advice.
But, let's face it, strenuous physical activity will take a toll. At times, and at some point, you're just going to have to suck it up, buttercup, if you want to do demanding exercise.
Even the professionals get repetitive motion and overuse injuries.
I am sorry you guys got serious injuries. I would argue, however, that it is better to be active and reap the consequences, than to be timid and sedentary and reap the consequences of that.
I've been reflecting on this, and would suggest that there is a big difference between a new or inexperienced runner cf an experienced one. Experience allows one to determine whether that pain is fatigue, or something to work through, something to ease back on our to go for some external support.
I'd also distinguish between chronic conditions and acute. About three years ago I had enough pain within 100 metres that I turned round and sacked the 10K I had planned. The pain indicated a potential injury that would have stopped running, or cycling, for six months. I did a 20K cycle instead and had a precautionary fortnight off running. Another time I've done a 20 miler with existing pain because I understood enough to know it wasn't harmful.
I've done enough in terms of both running and study of coaching to make those judgements, the originator hasn't.3 -
So you were able to complete C25K without any problems? So why not just keep on the same schedule for running that.
Perhaps just repeat the last 2 or 3 weeks. Keep on doing that for a few months and then very slowly increase the distance or time you are out for.
If you start to feel pain, then dial it back again to the last level of C25K where you were able to complete a week without issues.2 -
MeanderingMammal wrote: »GiddyupTim wrote: »amymoreorless wrote: »LeanButNotMean44 wrote: »GiddyupTim wrote: »Try better insoles in your shoes, like Superfeet.
Or, maybe you are due for a new pair if you bought them last year.
Then, ice afterwards. (The other thing often recommended is an anti-inflammatory, like aspirin or ibuprofen, but I would advise against reliance on that. They probably interfere with healing.)
I don't mean to sound unsympathetic. But, do you want to be a runner? Then suck it up and keep running.
Most long-term runners are long-term because they simply run through these things. Medical experts estimate that half of runners gets injured every year. That sounds about right to me. Running through an injury probably makes the healing take a bit longer. But it probably also ultimately makes you stronger.
You could cut the mileage a bit until the pain gets somewhat better. But runners run -- hot, cold, rain, shine, pain, no pain.
See a doc if you need to, but keep running.
I don’t agree with the advice to suck it up and run through pain. I had PF, ran through it, and ended up tearing my plantar fascia. I have heard the same thing happening to others. I also ran through a stress fracture in my foot and now have arthritis in that foot.
For sure running through DISCOMFORT is necessary, but pain is different and shouldn’t be ignored.
Ditto, I agree. This is terrible advice. I ran through peroneal tendinitis and ended up with crutches and a boot for weeks.
Sigh.
Nobody said there aren't serious injuries.
Nobody said there aren't times when you have to have wisdom enough to seek medical advice.
But, let's face it, strenuous physical activity will take a toll. At times, and at some point, you're just going to have to suck it up, buttercup, if you want to do demanding exercise.
Even the professionals get repetitive motion and overuse injuries.
I am sorry you guys got serious injuries. I would argue, however, that it is better to be active and reap the consequences, than to be timid and sedentary and reap the consequences of that.
I've been reflecting on this, and would suggest that there is a big difference between a new or inexperienced runner cf an experienced one. Experience allows one to determine whether that pain is fatigue, or something to work through, something to ease back on our to go for some external support.
I'd also distinguish between chronic conditions and acute. About three years ago I had enough pain within 100 metres that I turned round and sacked the 10K I had planned. The pain indicated a potential injury that would have stopped running, or cycling, for six months. I did a 20K cycle instead and had a precautionary fortnight off running. Another time I've done a 20 miler with existing pain because I understood enough to know it wasn't harmful.
I've done enough in terms of both running and study of coaching to make those judgements, the originator hasn't.
I give up.
Does anyone really believe I am advocating running through a broken leg or a torn ligament? And never going to the doctor for anything running or exercise related?
That would be patently ridiculous.
But, the originator is on the internet. If he has serious medical issue, he should be seeking medical attention. Not querying the Interweb yahoos for advice.
All I am saying is that each of us will, and does, get overuse and stress injuries from time to time. We can either chose to stop and not exercise -- which, it could be argued, might be worse, when one considers how often these things happen -- or we can, with prudence, push through.
The best do that. Roger Federer just exited Wimbledon, but before his exit, he played every other day, three and four hour matches for almost two weeks. I guarantee you he had aches and pains, despite the grass. He played through. That's why he is good.
I remember reading once about Allen Iverson near the end of his career. He had plantar fasciitis so bad he could hardly walk in the morning. And yet, he was playing games in the NBA.
Andre Agassi opens his memoir with a description of how his back was so bad from all his exertions that he had to sleep on the floor most nights.
Callous as it may sound, that is why those people are champions.
If we knock off every time we have injury and pain we may never progress and become stronger, or eventually lighter, which is easier on the body. Not if you figure you are likely to have an injury every year, more if you are new to exercise, or if you are always on the couch waiting to get better.
I am also not saying there aren't times when you need to modify your activities. Maybe you cannot run, so you bike. Maybe you cannot bike, so you swim.
Still, the fact of the matter is, most runners get shin splints when they first start running, in their first few years, for example. Most of us, when we get them, cut back a bit, for a little while. But we usually don't stop completely, or if so, not for very long, and at some point we run with the discomfort or pain and our body adapts and it goes away. Those who stop completely every time do not get the adaptation and most likely never become long-time runners.8 -
GiddyupTim wrote: »MeanderingMammal wrote: »GiddyupTim wrote: »amymoreorless wrote: »LeanButNotMean44 wrote: »GiddyupTim wrote: »Try better insoles in your shoes, like Superfeet.
Or, maybe you are due for a new pair if you bought them last year.
Then, ice afterwards. (The other thing often recommended is an anti-inflammatory, like aspirin or ibuprofen, but I would advise against reliance on that. They probably interfere with healing.)
I don't mean to sound unsympathetic. But, do you want to be a runner? Then suck it up and keep running.
Most long-term runners are long-term because they simply run through these things. Medical experts estimate that half of runners gets injured every year. That sounds about right to me. Running through an injury probably makes the healing take a bit longer. But it probably also ultimately makes you stronger.
You could cut the mileage a bit until the pain gets somewhat better. But runners run -- hot, cold, rain, shine, pain, no pain.
See a doc if you need to, but keep running.
I don’t agree with the advice to suck it up and run through pain. I had PF, ran through it, and ended up tearing my plantar fascia. I have heard the same thing happening to others. I also ran through a stress fracture in my foot and now have arthritis in that foot.
For sure running through DISCOMFORT is necessary, but pain is different and shouldn’t be ignored.
Ditto, I agree. This is terrible advice. I ran through peroneal tendinitis and ended up with crutches and a boot for weeks.
Sigh.
Nobody said there aren't serious injuries.
Nobody said there aren't times when you have to have wisdom enough to seek medical advice.
But, let's face it, strenuous physical activity will take a toll. At times, and at some point, you're just going to have to suck it up, buttercup, if you want to do demanding exercise.
Even the professionals get repetitive motion and overuse injuries.
I am sorry you guys got serious injuries. I would argue, however, that it is better to be active and reap the consequences, than to be timid and sedentary and reap the consequences of that.
I've been reflecting on this, and would suggest that there is a big difference between a new or inexperienced runner cf an experienced one. Experience allows one to determine whether that pain is fatigue, or something to work through, something to ease back on our to go for some external support.
I'd also distinguish between chronic conditions and acute. About three years ago I had enough pain within 100 metres that I turned round and sacked the 10K I had planned. The pain indicated a potential injury that would have stopped running, or cycling, for six months. I did a 20K cycle instead and had a precautionary fortnight off running. Another time I've done a 20 miler with existing pain because I understood enough to know it wasn't harmful.
I've done enough in terms of both running and study of coaching to make those judgements, the originator hasn't.
I give up.
Does anyone really believe I am advocating running through a broken leg or a torn ligament? And never going to the doctor for anything running or exercise related?
That would be patently ridiculous.
But, the originator is on the internet. If he has serious medical issue, he should be seeking medical attention. Not querying the Interweb yahoos for advice.
All I am saying is that each of us will, and does, get overuse and stress injuries from time to time. We can either chose to stop and not exercise -- which, it could be argued, might be worse, when one considers how often these things happen -- or we can, with prudence, push through.
The best do that. Roger Federer just exited Wimbledon, but before his exit, he played every other day, three and four hour matches for almost two weeks. I guarantee you he had aches and pains, despite the grass. He played through. That's why he is good.
I remember reading once about Allen Iverson near the end of his career. He had plantar fasciitis so bad he could hardly walk in the morning. And yet, he was playing games in the NBA.
Andre Agassi opens his memoir with a description of how his back was so bad from all his exertions that he had to sleep on the floor most nights.
Callous as it may sound, that is why those people are champions.
If we knock off every time we have injury and pain we may never progress and become stronger, or eventually lighter, which is easier on the body. Not if you figure you are likely to have an injury every year, more if you are new to exercise, or if you are always on the couch waiting to get better.
I am also not saying there aren't times when you need to modify your activities. Maybe you cannot run, so you bike. Maybe you cannot bike, so you swim.
Still, the fact of the matter is, most runners get shin splints when they first start running, in their first few years, for example. Most of us, when we get them, cut back a bit, for a little while. But we usually don't stop completely, or if so, not for very long, and at some point we run with the discomfort or pain and our body adapts and it goes away. Those who stop completely every time do not get the adaptation and most likely never become long-time runners.
Kenny Rogers said it best...
You've got to know when to hold 'em,
Know when to fold 'em.
Know when to walk away
And know when to run.
3 -
GiddyupTim wrote: »...Callous as it may sound, that is why those people are champions...
I have difficulty reconciling the actions of elite professional athletes with those of everyday exercisers looking to create a long-term sustainable routine which will also allow them to fulfill the other responsibilities in their lives.
Professional athletes make millions of dollars doing what they do - it's their livelihood - and they also have access to (and can afford) the best of the best medical/rehab care. They don't have to worry about going back to work Monday morning to earn a paycheck to support their families.
If a pro football player blows out his knee, he goes on the disabled list and continues to earn his (huge) salary, as well as all his endorsement contracts (where the money is really made). If Joe/Jane Lunchbox blows out their knee and isn't able to go back to work, they get no paycheck and big medical bills. And they're out of commission for about twice as long as the football player because they don't have an elite, cutting edge medical/training staff at their beck and call.
Not everybody is striving to be a champion. Not everybody is willing to ignore pain and train through injuries they shouldn't be training through for bragging rights and a $2 plastic trophy at the next city 10K or half-marathon. A lot of people just want to lose some weight and get in better shape so they can go about their daily lives more efficiently. And in those cases, it makes perfect sense to be a lot more prudent than a "champion".
Certainly aches, pains and the chance of injury are a part of working out. For almost everybody. But a little common sense in managing those goes a long way.6 -
GiddyupTim wrote: »...Callous as it may sound, that is why those people are champions...
I have difficulty reconciling the actions of elite professional athletes with those of everyday exercisers looking to create a long-term sustainable routine which will also allow them to fulfill the other responsibilities in their lives.
Professional athletes make millions of dollars doing what they do - it's their livelihood - and they also have access to (and can afford) the best of the best medical/rehab care. They don't have to worry about going back to work Monday morning to earn a paycheck to support their families.
If a pro football player blows out his knee, he goes on the disabled list and continues to earn his (huge) salary, as well as all his endorsement contracts (where the money is really made). If Joe/Jane Lunchbox blows out their knee and isn't able to go back to work, they get no paycheck and big medical bills. And they're out of commission for about twice as long as the football player because they don't have an elite, cutting edge medical/training staff at their beck and call.
Not everybody is striving to be a champion. Not everybody is willing to ignore pain and train through injuries they shouldn't be training through for bragging rights and a $2 plastic trophy at the next city 10K or half-marathon. A lot of people just want to lose some weight and get in better shape so they can go about their daily lives more efficiently. And in those cases, it makes perfect sense to be a lot more prudent than a "champion".
Certainly aches, pains and the chance of injury are a part of working out. For almost everybody. But a little common sense in managing those goes a long way.
Again, I think you are misconstruing what I am saying.
I'm simply using them as an example. I did not mean for it to be taken that far.
My point is only that people who excel at sports -- or want to excel -- sometimes need to push through pain.
The title of this thread is 'Advice from pro or long time runners.
I assume that means the OP wants to know how to become a runner who gets better and keeps the practice up.
I can almost guarantee you that no one who trains for a marathon and then runs one makes it without some sort of injury or pain along the way.
But yet, they have run a marathon.
They have pushed through.
Now, you can quibble and say: Hey, what about all those people who got hurt so bad they didn't run their marathon...?"
Or whatever.
Whatever!
True enough, what I say is a generalization. But it is a generalization with some honesty.
I don't know any committed runners who haven't put a band-aid over a blister and gone out on their run. Or who haven't gone through shin splints and -- by definition -- did not quit, or stop for long, if they did stop. Or who haven't spent weeks running on a runners knee, or a tight, sore psoas, or plantar fasciitis.
Maybe teenagers and people in their early 20s don't get injured. But, for the rest of us, if you want to run and get better you cannot stop for every little bump in the road.
My brother and I used to joke that at a certain age, you start having injuries so often that it is really just one, migrating injury. One week it is in your foot. That heals, and in the meantime you get one in the opposite knee. That heals and....
Well, you get the idea.
I've never shared that joke with any serious athlete over the age of 35 years who did not get it immediately.2
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