Building muscle and need ideas for plant-based protein w/o all the calories
hcdo
Posts: 201 Member
My current goal is to build more muscle, and have read/heard from many sources that you need around .8-1g/lb of bodyweight. When I got my protein from animal sources, I had no problems reaching that while still staying within my calories.
I'm now trying to transition to a plant-based diet and have had a hard time hitting that same goal while not going over on calories. [I'm 120 lbs with a TDEE ~1600.] Trying to get 120g of protein a day has been a huge challenge.
Anyone have suggestions for how to stay within my calorie limits while still getting that amount of protein? (My current go-to's for protein are soy in its many different forms (tofu, tempeh, edamame, etc.), veggie protein powders, beans, oats, quinoa, nuts and nut butters, chick peas, nutritional yeast, spinach, broccoli...) [Side note: my fiber intake has tripled and my poor bloated mid-region is not happy.]
Should I even worry about getting my protein intake that high? Would the RDA recommendation of .8/kg (around 45g for me) be enough? I'm definitely not a body builder, is that high number really more for elite-type athletes and should I just stay in my lane with .8/kg?
Thanks in advance!
I'm now trying to transition to a plant-based diet and have had a hard time hitting that same goal while not going over on calories. [I'm 120 lbs with a TDEE ~1600.] Trying to get 120g of protein a day has been a huge challenge.
Anyone have suggestions for how to stay within my calorie limits while still getting that amount of protein? (My current go-to's for protein are soy in its many different forms (tofu, tempeh, edamame, etc.), veggie protein powders, beans, oats, quinoa, nuts and nut butters, chick peas, nutritional yeast, spinach, broccoli...) [Side note: my fiber intake has tripled and my poor bloated mid-region is not happy.]
Should I even worry about getting my protein intake that high? Would the RDA recommendation of .8/kg (around 45g for me) be enough? I'm definitely not a body builder, is that high number really more for elite-type athletes and should I just stay in my lane with .8/kg?
Thanks in advance!
1
Replies
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I'd recommend staying away from soy due to nutrient inhibitors and increased estrogen production. Pea protein is a better alternative, but keep in mind your body can only absorb about half the protein vs a whey isolate. Harvest Snaps for a snack, cause the macros are decent, and powdered PBfit you can get in bulk at sams club for the protein and way less fat than traditional peanut butter. Just some suggestions.0
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Within the context of building muscle, if the range is 45g to 120g, the higher you get on that scale the more optimal for muscle-building conditions.
1g/lb is the standard bodybuilding bro-science because 0.8g is close to 1g and more must be better, right bruh?
However, it's my understanding that the 0.8g/lb as the maximum level for effective muscle synthesis was reached after adding two standard deviations of the data yielded from the subject study in a similar "just to be safe" philosophy. Combine that with the carb/fat shaming being ever popular in the zeitgeist and you end up with the general perception people need way more protein than necessary to get them sweet gainz.
That said, I think the RDA is too low. I suggest shooting for the range of 0.6-0.8 g/lb (72-96g). YMMV, but my expectation would be that even hitting that amount of protein meat-free would be a bit of a task and supplementing w/ a plant-based protein powder will be your best bet. I use MyProtein for my whey powder and have yet to find something with as much bang-for-buck. I've not used their plant-based personally, but they have a few options and go through LabDoor for QA testing. They're also always running some sort of promo and ship directly.
Vegan protein range: https://us.myprotein.com/our-range/protein.list?facetFilters=en_Diet_content:Vegan
Disclaimer: I'm not affiliated with MyProtein in any way, simply a customer who appreciates the value of their product range.4 -
I'd recommend staying away from soy due to nutrient inhibitors and increased estrogen production. Pea protein is a better alternative, but keep in mind your body can only absorb about half the protein vs a whey isolate. Harvest Snaps for a snack, cause the macros are decent, and powdered PBfit you can get in bulk at sams club for the protein and way less fat than traditional peanut butter. Just some suggestions.
Thank you! I LOVE PBfit. I've been wary of soy, especially since I had hormone-receptor-positive breast cancer. I thought they had disproven the soy/estrogen issue, though? Still trying to find a definitive answer.0 -
Within the context of building muscle, if the range is 45g to 120g, the higher you get on that scale the more optimal for muscle-building conditions.
1g/lb is the standard bodybuilding bro-science because 0.8g is close to 1g and more must be better, right bruh?
However, it's my understanding that the 0.8g/lb as the maximum level for effective muscle synthesis was reached after adding two standard deviations of the data yielded from the subject study in a similar "just to be safe" philosophy. Combine that with the carb/fat shaming being ever popular in the zeitgeist and you end up with the general perception people need way more protein than necessary to get them sweet gainz.
That said, I think the RDA is too low. I suggest shooting for the range of 0.6-0.8 g/lb (72-96g). YMMV, but my expectation would be that even hitting that amount of protein meat-free would be a bit of a task and supplementing w/ a plant-based protein powder will be your best bet. I use MyProtein for my whey powder and have yet to find something with as much bang-for-buck. I've not used their plant-based personally, but they have a few options and go through LabDoor for QA testing. They're also always running some sort of promo and ship directly.
Vegan protein range: https://us.myprotein.com/our-range/protein.list?facetFilters=en_Diet_content:Vegan
Disclaimer: I'm not affiliated with MyProtein in any way, simply a customer who appreciates the value of their product range.
Thank you! That's helpful. I think you're right that increasing my protein powder intake may just be the best bet for now.0 -
I'd recommend staying away from soy due to nutrient inhibitors and increased estrogen production. Pea protein is a better alternative, but keep in mind your body can only absorb about half the protein vs a whey isolate. Harvest Snaps for a snack, cause the macros are decent, and powdered PBfit you can get in bulk at sams club for the protein and way less fat than traditional peanut butter. Just some suggestions.
Thank you! I LOVE PBfit. I've been wary of soy, especially since I had hormone-receptor-positive breast cancer. I thought they had disproven the soy/estrogen issue, though? Still trying to find a definitive answer.
From my understanding, it has been disproven. And I would be even more worried when people can only tell you that you can absorb only half of a nutrient... because it's false.
And the thing is, soy has the highest leucine content which is what you want to worry about when it comes to building muscle.
The bigger question is, do you know what lifting program you are going to use?2 -
I'd recommend staying away from soy due to nutrient inhibitors and increased estrogen production. Pea protein is a better alternative, but keep in mind your body can only absorb about half the protein vs a whey isolate. Harvest Snaps for a snack, cause the macros are decent, and powdered PBfit you can get in bulk at sams club for the protein and way less fat than traditional peanut butter. Just some suggestions.
Thank you! I LOVE PBfit. I've been wary of soy, especially since I had hormone-receptor-positive breast cancer. I thought they had disproven the soy/estrogen issue, though? Still trying to find a definitive answer.
From my understanding, it has been disproven. And I would be even more worried when people can only tell you that you can absorb only half of a nutrient... because it's false.
And the thing is, soy has the highest leucine content which is what you want to worry about when it comes to building muscle.
The bigger question is, do you know what lifting program you are going to use?
Thank you, I was pretty sure I'd read that it had been disproven. I'm currently doing Lyle McDonald's generic bulking routine, but thinking of going back to PHUL. I've had some recent adductor and shoulder injuries/inflammation though, so I'm having to take it easy on the power days/lifts. Did you have a program to suggest? I'm always open to new ideas.
Thanks for taking the time to reply, BTW. I follow a lot of your comments/discussions and always get good insight.
0 -
I'd recommend staying away from soy due to nutrient inhibitors and increased estrogen production. Pea protein is a better alternative, but keep in mind your body can only absorb about half the protein vs a whey isolate. Harvest Snaps for a snack, cause the macros are decent, and powdered PBfit you can get in bulk at sams club for the protein and way less fat than traditional peanut butter. Just some suggestions.
Thank you! I LOVE PBfit. I've been wary of soy, especially since I had hormone-receptor-positive breast cancer. I thought they had disproven the soy/estrogen issue, though? Still trying to find a definitive answer.
From my understanding, it has been disproven. And I would be even more worried when people can only tell you that you can absorb only half of a nutrient... because it's false.
And the thing is, soy has the highest leucine content which is what you want to worry about when it comes to building muscle.
The bigger question is, do you know what lifting program you are going to use?
Thank you, I was pretty sure I'd read that it had been disproven. I'm currently doing Lyle McDonald's generic bulking routine, but thinking of going back to PHUL. I've had some recent adductor and shoulder injuries/inflammation though, so I'm having to take it easy on the power days/lifts. Did you have a program to suggest? I'm always open to new ideas.
Thanks for taking the time to reply, BTW. I follow a lot of your comments/discussions and always get good insight.
How often do you lift? And what are your goals outside of some muscle building? Do you have focus areas you want to improve?
0 -
Have you tried seitan? It's pretty low fiber and if you make your own you can also control the calorie count.
I ate it all the time when I was in a deficit (still eat a lot of it!). It's high protein, versatile, and cheap (when you make your own).0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »Have you tried seitan? It's pretty low fiber and if you make your own you can also control the calorie count.
I ate it all the time when I was in a deficit (still eat a lot of it!). It's high protein, versatile, and cheap (when you make your own).
I haven't tried it yet but I just bought some. (Only a couple of grocery stores in my area have it.) I did think it was a bit cost prohibitive, have you made your own? Is it very time intensive?0 -
I'd recommend staying away from soy due to nutrient inhibitors and increased estrogen production. Pea protein is a better alternative, but keep in mind your body can only absorb about half the protein vs a whey isolate. Harvest Snaps for a snack, cause the macros are decent, and powdered PBfit you can get in bulk at sams club for the protein and way less fat than traditional peanut butter. Just some suggestions.
Thank you! I LOVE PBfit. I've been wary of soy, especially since I had hormone-receptor-positive breast cancer. I thought they had disproven the soy/estrogen issue, though? Still trying to find a definitive answer.
From my understanding, it has been disproven. And I would be even more worried when people can only tell you that you can absorb only half of a nutrient... because it's false.
And the thing is, soy has the highest leucine content which is what you want to worry about when it comes to building muscle.
The bigger question is, do you know what lifting program you are going to use?
Thank you, I was pretty sure I'd read that it had been disproven. I'm currently doing Lyle McDonald's generic bulking routine, but thinking of going back to PHUL. I've had some recent adductor and shoulder injuries/inflammation though, so I'm having to take it easy on the power days/lifts. Did you have a program to suggest? I'm always open to new ideas.
Thanks for taking the time to reply, BTW. I follow a lot of your comments/discussions and always get good insight.
How often do you lift? And what are your goals outside of some muscle building? Do you have focus areas you want to improve?
I lift 4x/wk, two upper body days, two lower body days, with a cardio-only day in between. I'd love my legs (quads/hams mainly, and of course, booty) to be stronger, as well as my bis and tris. Can't seem to get past a plateau on those. My inflamed adductor keeps me from adding too much weight on my legs
0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »Have you tried seitan? It's pretty low fiber and if you make your own you can also control the calorie count.
I ate it all the time when I was in a deficit (still eat a lot of it!). It's high protein, versatile, and cheap (when you make your own).
I haven't tried it yet but I just bought some. (Only a couple of grocery stores in my area have it.) I did think it was a bit cost prohibitive, have you made your own? Is it very time intensive?
I make my own. It takes about 15 minutes to put together, and a couple of hours to cook/let cool2 -
estherdragonbat wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Have you tried seitan? It's pretty low fiber and if you make your own you can also control the calorie count.
I ate it all the time when I was in a deficit (still eat a lot of it!). It's high protein, versatile, and cheap (when you make your own).
I haven't tried it yet but I just bought some. (Only a couple of grocery stores in my area have it.) I did think it was a bit cost prohibitive, have you made your own? Is it very time intensive?
I make my own. It takes about 15 minutes to put together, and a couple of hours to cook/let cool
Awesome, thanks for letting me know!0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »Have you tried seitan? It's pretty low fiber and if you make your own you can also control the calorie count.
I ate it all the time when I was in a deficit (still eat a lot of it!). It's high protein, versatile, and cheap (when you make your own).
I haven't tried it yet but I just bought some. (Only a couple of grocery stores in my area have it.) I did think it was a bit cost prohibitive, have you made your own? Is it very time intensive?
No, it's actually pretty easy if you start with vital wheat gluten (the alternative is multiple "rinsing" of regular flour to remove the starch and I've read how it's done but never done it).
You can steam it, boil it, bake it, or even do it in the slow cooker. They'll result in slightly different textures and you may want to experiment a bit to find what works best for you. I've done all four and I've found that I like steaming the best (for the ease of preparing it and the texture). It freezes really well, so once you find a method and taste you like don't be afraid to make a bunch. I almost always have some seitan "sausages" individually wrapped in the freezer.
Here is a recipe that I like: http://www.thatwasvegan.com/2012/01/30/my-favorite-chicken-style-seitan-recipe/
You can vary the seasoning to play with flavor. This one is "chicken" style, but your imagination is really the limit for what you want to add to the dough (think sausage, BBQ, Italian, Mexican, Indian). You can also marinate it after it's done to add various flavors and then heat it up.
Vital Wheat Gluten can often be found in the baking area of even regular grocery stores (it has uses besides making seitan so it's not just a vegan/plant-based thing), but if you can't find it where you live, you can always try a health food store or order it online. It's much cheaper than buying pre-made seitan!0 -
I'd recommend staying away from soy due to nutrient inhibitors and increased estrogen production. Pea protein is a better alternative, but keep in mind your body can only absorb about half the protein vs a whey isolate. Harvest Snaps for a snack, cause the macros are decent, and powdered PBfit you can get in bulk at sams club for the protein and way less fat than traditional peanut butter. Just some suggestions.
Thank you! I LOVE PBfit. I've been wary of soy, especially since I had hormone-receptor-positive breast cancer. I thought they had disproven the soy/estrogen issue, though? Still trying to find a definitive answer.
From my understanding, it has been disproven. And I would be even more worried when people can only tell you that you can absorb only half of a nutrient... because it's false.
And the thing is, soy has the highest leucine content which is what you want to worry about when it comes to building muscle.
The bigger question is, do you know what lifting program you are going to use?
Thank you, I was pretty sure I'd read that it had been disproven. I'm currently doing Lyle McDonald's generic bulking routine, but thinking of going back to PHUL. I've had some recent adductor and shoulder injuries/inflammation though, so I'm having to take it easy on the power days/lifts. Did you have a program to suggest? I'm always open to new ideas.
Thanks for taking the time to reply, BTW. I follow a lot of your comments/discussions and always get good insight.
How often do you lift? And what are your goals outside of some muscle building? Do you have focus areas you want to improve?
I lift 4x/wk, two upper body days, two lower body days, with a cardio-only day in between. I'd love my legs (quads/hams mainly, and of course, booty) to be stronger, as well as my bis and tris. Can't seem to get past a plateau on those. My inflamed adductor keeps me from adding too much weight on my legs
There is a 4 day of StrongCurves that might be interesting for you. @sardelsa was talking about a few days ago. But I was also a fan of PHUL and PHAT (this is a 5 day)1 -
I'd recommend staying away from soy due to nutrient inhibitors and increased estrogen production. Pea protein is a better alternative, but keep in mind your body can only absorb about half the protein vs a whey isolate. Harvest Snaps for a snack, cause the macros are decent, and powdered PBfit you can get in bulk at sams club for the protein and way less fat than traditional peanut butter. Just some suggestions.
Thank you! I LOVE PBfit. I've been wary of soy, especially since I had hormone-receptor-positive breast cancer. I thought they had disproven the soy/estrogen issue, though? Still trying to find a definitive answer.
From my understanding, it has been disproven. And I would be even more worried when people can only tell you that you can absorb only half of a nutrient... because it's false.
And the thing is, soy has the highest leucine content which is what you want to worry about when it comes to building muscle.
The bigger question is, do you know what lifting program you are going to use?
Thank you, I was pretty sure I'd read that it had been disproven. I'm currently doing Lyle McDonald's generic bulking routine, but thinking of going back to PHUL. I've had some recent adductor and shoulder injuries/inflammation though, so I'm having to take it easy on the power days/lifts. Did you have a program to suggest? I'm always open to new ideas.
Thanks for taking the time to reply, BTW. I follow a lot of your comments/discussions and always get good insight.
How often do you lift? And what are your goals outside of some muscle building? Do you have focus areas you want to improve?
I lift 4x/wk, two upper body days, two lower body days, with a cardio-only day in between. I'd love my legs (quads/hams mainly, and of course, booty) to be stronger, as well as my bis and tris. Can't seem to get past a plateau on those. My inflamed adductor keeps me from adding too much weight on my legs
There is a 4 day of StrongCurves that might be interesting for you. @sardelsa was talking about a few days ago. But I was also a fan of PHUL and PHAT (this is a 5 day)
Thank you! I actually have the SC book, I'll go back and revisit. And I'll look into PHAT as well.0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Have you tried seitan? It's pretty low fiber and if you make your own you can also control the calorie count.
I ate it all the time when I was in a deficit (still eat a lot of it!). It's high protein, versatile, and cheap (when you make your own).
I haven't tried it yet but I just bought some. (Only a couple of grocery stores in my area have it.) I did think it was a bit cost prohibitive, have you made your own? Is it very time intensive?
No, it's actually pretty easy if you start with vital wheat gluten (the alternative is multiple "rinsing" of regular flour to remove the starch and I've read how it's done but never done it).
You can steam it, boil it, bake it, or even do it in the slow cooker. They'll result in slightly different textures and you may want to experiment a bit to find what works best for you. I've done all four and I've found that I like steaming the best (for the ease of preparing it and the texture). It freezes really well, so once you find a method and taste you like don't be afraid to make a bunch. I almost always have some seitan "sausages" individually wrapped in the freezer.
Here is a recipe that I like: http://www.thatwasvegan.com/2012/01/30/my-favorite-chicken-style-seitan-recipe/
You can vary the seasoning to play with flavor. This one is "chicken" style, but your imagination is really the limit for what you want to add to the dough (think sausage, BBQ, Italian, Mexican, Indian). You can also marinate it after it's done to add various flavors and then heat it up.
Vital Wheat Gluten can often be found in the baking area of even regular grocery stores (it has uses besides making seitan so it's not just a vegan/plant-based thing), but if you can't find it where you live, you can always try a health food store or order it online. It's much cheaper than buying pre-made seitan!
Thank you so much! I'm definitely going to look into it!0 -
From what I've learnt, Unless you stick to eating vegan protein supplements, you ain't gonna get jacked up. I don't have the money to invest in whey protein, so I get my protein from meat. It's very possible to be vegan and jacked up.1
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