Max Heart Rate Question
gcconroy29
Posts: 85 Member
I played 2 hours of field hockey last night, which is the longest I've ever played - two hour games with an hour break in between. At one point my heart rate was 179, but overall my average heart rate was around 130 between the two games.
Through both games, I spent around 10 minutes in the above 165 range. I felt pretty spent during both games ( it was so hot last night), and felt absolutely tapped out at the end.
Last night was the longest I've spent in zone 5 and I'm not sure I ever want to do it again. I'm still overweight, with at least another 20 pounds to lose, ideally 40, so I'm hardly some uber athelete that needs to hit peak numbers for training. I've found conflicting advice about how long someone should be in the higher range. You guys have any thoughts on how risky that is?
Side note - we had no substitutes last night, I would never have dreamed of staying on the field in any other circumstances. If you sign up for a league, please show up to play.
Through both games, I spent around 10 minutes in the above 165 range. I felt pretty spent during both games ( it was so hot last night), and felt absolutely tapped out at the end.
Last night was the longest I've spent in zone 5 and I'm not sure I ever want to do it again. I'm still overweight, with at least another 20 pounds to lose, ideally 40, so I'm hardly some uber athelete that needs to hit peak numbers for training. I've found conflicting advice about how long someone should be in the higher range. You guys have any thoughts on how risky that is?
Side note - we had no substitutes last night, I would never have dreamed of staying on the field in any other circumstances. If you sign up for a league, please show up to play.
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Replies
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Unless I'm training in speicifc HR zones for a reason, I've never seen/needed/understood the importance of caring about HR. Unless you felt light headed or had other "side effects" for the exertion level, I wouldn't worry about it.
Work out, play, have fun, go hard... the rest and recover the next day. You should be fine.7 -
HR is kind of a finicky thing. Lots of things outside of your effort affect it. Caffeine, stress, fatigue, heat, etc can all increase your HR. My primary exercise is running. When it’s hot, my HR is 10-15 BPM higher than normal for roughly the same pace. When it’s stupid hot (like 95+ and humid is really hot for where I live), it can be 20-30 BPM higher.
As for zone 5 - that’s actually a pretty big range. It’s very difficult to spend time at the very top of that range. But I typically run a 10k race at the lower end of zone 5 and that takes me an hour or so. I run a 5k in about the middle-higher end of zone 5. All out sprint repeats where I can only sprint for a very short time will (eventually) have me at the very top of zone 5. I don’t think I’m unusual in those levels. But time in zone 5 can be anything from 30 seconds to 60+ minutes depending on where I am in that zone.
And as mentioned-in a game situation, unless you’re experiencing some sort of symptoms, your effort is going to be driven by the needs of the game. You’re going to sprint after the ball or whatever because that’s what is happening in the game. You’re not going to jog after the ball instead because your HR has tipped into zone 5.
I wouldn’t worry about it. Your HR was probably a little high from the heat, and zone 5 is really a pretty large range. So play and enjoy.2 -
I do think the heat had a lot do with this one. Turf fields are horrible, they make everything hotter.
After two hours, there wasn't much having fun or enjoyment, hah. But I appreciate the sentiment. It's still my favorite way to exercise.0 -
I am not an expert, and any symptoms that worry you should be discussed with a professional. I am a 50+, so the health of my heart is always in my mind. I am so impressed that you are working out hard doing something that sounds FUN! Have at it!
The first question is: how do you know your max HR? The standard formula is 220 - AGE = 163. But, this is a crude estimate and can vary a lot for different people. Your sprint zone is calculated using 0.9 * (MAX - resting) + resting. Using the standard formula, that would only be 152BPM for me. But, I train above that for hours! There is no way anyone can (by definition) train above 90% of max for more than a few minutes, therefore my MAX is higher. (I have estimated it at ~178, so my 90% range starts at 165BPM which seems about right).
A few years back, I went and asked my Dr. if it was OK for me to max out my HR with regularity. His answer was "yes!" He just wanted to make sure I worked out regularly, in which case the risk of something bad happening (such as a heart attack) is apparently low. In fact, it is apparently very good for you to exercise your heart near its max output (e.g., interval training). In addition, he told me not to worry about over-taxing my heart to the point of damage, as your body is well designed to prevent this.2 -
The evidence does not show max HR as having much risk. It's simply a reaction to exertion. Metrics worth reviewing are recovery rate - moving from exertion to rest and measuring the decrease in HR over 1 min & 2 mins.
Bodies do better with gradual activity, so the only concern would be unusual high stress activity going from sedentary without training. Note that this is why cardio is stressed so much - so that your heart and associated systems are prepared for activity.4 -
If you didn't die, then you beat the risk.
When people approach their limit, they get exhausted and have to stop. If there's something unusual going on with you, get cleared by your doctor; in general, this is healthy.4 -
I share the question about how you know your max. My 220-age is 158, but my tested max is about 180. If I believed my age-estimated max, I'd think I was in zone 5 (148+) during darned near every workout, but zone 5 is really more like 167+. I can get there, but I have to really work at it.
That said, a hot day does give me a noticeably higher heart rate for the same exertion than a cooler one**, and reduced hydration will also elevate HR noticeably. Were you drinking enough, and - for that length of workout in heat - replenishing electrolytes, plus maybe sugar/other quick carbs?
My understanding is like others: If you're healthy, and reasonably conditioned to what you're doing, it's not so much that there's some "too long" to be at a high heart rate from a health risk standpoint . . . but your body simply may refuse to stay there after a certain period of time, i.e., it's physically unsustainable. From your story, it's a little hard to separate out the effects of high HR, consistent hydration, electrolytes, maybe even dropping glycogen . . . any of which can influence the symptoms you report ("spent", "tapped out"). (I'd have trouble sorting out which factor was doing what even if I were the one doing the exercise, BTW.)
** I know it's about the same exertion because I'm tracking speed/distance/time, and rivers don't have hills to complicate the situation (I'm a rower).2 -
Heart rate was calculated on my Garmin. I know at one point I looked and it was 179 which is the highest I've ever seen it. My max according the calculation is 181
I really was just curious as to how long one should be in that zone. I can't say I was even concerned. I was totally exhausted, but that's what I would expect after that much effort. It didn't help that my mother was watching the game and caught the rates on my watch.
But I agree with everyone, my body wasn't letting me be that high very long. Towards the end of that 2nd game, I was barely going after the ball.1 -
gcconroy29 wrote: »I really was just curious as to how long one should be in that zone. I can't say I was even concerned. I was totally exhausted, but that's what I would expect after that much effort. It didn't help that my mother was watching the game and caught the rates on my watch.
By definition, zone 5 is the cross over at your LTHR - lactic threshold. Below LTHR, you can operate for hours. Above LTHR, lactic acid builds up faster than it can be cast off. The maximum amount of time you can handle that is 60 minutes. After that, you have to stop, your body won't go on.
After you recover and cast off that lactic acid, you can go an hour again.
There is no problems doing that if your heart is healthy.
There is also no reason to monitor it unless your specifically training for something using HR0 -
gcconroy29 wrote: »Heart rate was calculated on my Garmin. I know at one point I looked and it was 179 which is the highest I've ever seen it. My max according the calculation is 181
I really was just curious as to how long one should be in that zone. I can't say I was even concerned. I was totally exhausted, but that's what I would expect after that much effort. It didn't help that my mother was watching the game and caught the rates on my watch.
But I agree with everyone, my body wasn't letting me be that high very long. Towards the end of that 2nd game, I was barely going after the ball.
Max HR isn't a calculation - it's your actual maximum when pushing yourself to failure. I took 3 days to recover fully from my max HR ramp test in a sports science lab! I've not come within 10bpm of that number in non lab conditions despite cycling up some monster hills that felt like maximal effort. There are criteria to determine whether your recorded high BPM really was your maximum but really not seeing any benefit to you.
I see absolutely no reason why you should monitor how long you are in an estimated zone 5 let alone try and stay in Z5 for a certain time for your sport.
As you have found out when you get tired you slow down, so if you are heart healthy I'm not seeing a risk as such. You worked hard and pushed yourself - that's really all you need to know.1 -
If hitting HR max (or near it) was dangerous, I'd be long dead. But I agree with others, don't try it if you're not in decent shape already and don't do it long if you aren't well trained. It has taken me around 6 years of training to get to the point that I'm doing over 80%/85% of max HR training 3 times a week.
I'm working on my 5K rowing times right now (wanting to go sub 19 minutes). That's very similar to going sub 19 on a 5K timed run (and I'm 53 to make it even more challenging). I'm doing 2/3 AT workouts a week and working hard on Lactic Acid clearance/tolerance, which means pushing your body to at least 90% a few times a week and perhaps just a bit more once a week (beyond that, even for trained athletes isn't a good idea). Any runner who competes at 5K runs seriously trains like I'm training right now all the time (I hate it, that's why I'm doing it!). I'm amazed at how well trained elite 5K runners or Sprint Triathletes are. They train MUCH harder than I'm training. Actually a hard as you can absolutely go 5K (in either rowing or running or perhaps even biking, maybe 10K for biking) is a good indicator of your HRM once you're decently trained. The last two/three minute average is a great general idea of your HRM (though that's even probably a bit short of where it actually is and limited by how good of max effort your body is in shape to do). Many that can go harder don't because pain tolerance. Pain tolerance is different than maximum capacity to work. They've proven that in harder cardio scenarios, your mind will stop you before your body absolutely can't do any more. There's a ton of mental aspect to pushing and finding out your MHR that a non trained person probably shouldn't attempt.
Likely, you just aren't used to your heart rate being up there (I certainly wasn't when I started working out, I could barely jog 100 steps!). Likely, your physical limitations right now will insulate you from going dangerously high on HR. Your mind will kick in before you're in any sense of danger as long as you've been cleared to exercise.
For added safety where a HRM and pay attention mostly to how fast your HR slows down. If you're not slowing down more than 10/15 heartbeats after taking a minute off of cardio, you're not slowing down fast enough. That's a sign you're pushing way too hard. As you become more fit, your HR can drop over 50 beats a minute after taking a rest from a hard workout.2 -
I took 3 days to recover fully from my max HR ramp test in a sports science lab! I've not come within 10bpm of that number in non lab conditions despite cycling up some monster hills that felt like maximal effort.
Now, that is your max HR!
One online source recommend running a 5k, sprinting at the end, then adding 5BPM to your HR. Of course, you can only do that safely if you are already in reasonable aerobic condition.
This and some other methods are described here:
http://www.howtobefit.com/five-heart-rate-zones.htm1 -
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DoubleUbea wrote: »
So AGE always = 57?Jthanmyfitnesspal wrote: »The standard formula is 220 - AGE = 163.
Good point! If I were going to pick an age, I think I might like to stay about 35 in terms of my physical health. (Although, I was a lot heavier then.)0 -
Bear in mind there may be uncertainty based on how you are measuring your heart rate. For example, several models of Garmin heart rate monitors that measure heart rate based on a wrist sensor will give abnormally high readings if the watch isn’t seated snugly.
Since max heart rate is a number that influences so many other training parameters I would get interested in measuring it accurately.0 -
ttippie2000 wrote: »
Since max heart rate is a number that influences so many other training parameters I would get interested in measuring it accurately.
Equally given that it's a metric that can be very variable and influenced by a wide range of uncontrolled factors, don't get too bothered about it.
Accurate measurement of an unreliable measure is pointless.2 -
Maximum heart rate is really more of a theoretical construct than a bona fide thing in the world. Contrast that to your LTHR which is a real thing, repeatable, and useful for training purposes. It's also unambiguous, compared to max HR which most people agree is different per sport. How is it possible that the same heart can have a different maximum rate for running vs cycling? Because what we mean by max heart rate tends to be "the highest you can actually achieve" that way. Not the maximum your heart can actually do, which anyway will change day to day with your fatigue levels and other things.0
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NorthCascades wrote: »How is it possible that the same heart can have a different maximum rate for running vs cycling?
I'll bite on that one: how is it possible? It seems like I have the same for both. (And for swimming.) I can easily hit the same HRs in all three sports just by doing intervals in that sport.
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gcconroy29 wrote: »Heart rate was calculated on my Garmin. I know at one point I looked and it was 179 which is the highest I've ever seen it. My max according the calculation is 181
I really was just curious as to how long one should be in that zone. I can't say I was even concerned. I was totally exhausted, but that's what I would expect after that much effort. It didn't help that my mother was watching the game and caught the rates on my watch.
But I agree with everyone, my body wasn't letting me be that high very long. Towards the end of that 2nd game, I was barely going after the ball.
Your Garmin uses the 220-age formula by default for your max heart rate. It then uses that number to set your heart rate zones. If your "true" max heart rate is not accurate, your zones will not be accurate either.
You can never get to your true max heart rate because your probably would collapse by then, but you can get a pretty close number by using an accurate heart rate monitor and doing something type of intervals, getting the highest heart rate measured and adding 5 to it.
If you are staying in zone 5 for that long, your true max heart rate is probably higher than the 220 - age formula that your Garmin is using.
I am 61 so my Garmin was using a max heart rate of 159. I was doing 60 second run intervals one very hot day. I did 10 intervals over a 3.85 mile distance. I did power walking as active recovery between intervals to still keep my heart rate up. By the time I got to about the 5th interval I noticed my heart rate hit 167. I thought my heart rate monitor just freaked out at first, but when I hit the next interval It hit 168. The remaining intervals it was hitting around the same, and the highest it hit 169. On that interval I felt like I was going to lose total control of my legs and pass out.
I took that 169 and added 5 to it, then set my max heart rate to 174 on my Garmin. Now my zones feel more like they should feel according to the explanations of how each zone should feel.
Point is, you should not be able to stay in zone 5 for very long at all (maybe a couple minutes if your in good shape), and you should not be ably to actually hit your true max heart rate.
I got the advice about adding 5 to your highest measured heart rate by someone in the suunto forum who runs ultra marathons, and them guys know how to train.
If you are going to do heart rate training, knowing your true max heart rate (or as close to it as you can get) is probably one of the most important factors, because it affects all your training zones.0 -
I think knowing your perceived max HR is useful for specific training reasons. People who are looking to seriously increase their stamina, running pace, biking race and people who are serious racing athletes should definitely do HR training. It also helps give a more accurate calorie burn which can help with weight loss and accurately counting TDEE.
My tested max HR is 209. This is per a Vo2 max test. During running season, I'll track my HR during runs where I am pushing for a faster mile time. And there are runs where my heart rate is in the top zone for the majority of the time. It shows me how hard I can push and for how long my body will take it before I naturally start to slow down. I find it useful information but I don't use the max HR as a rule. If my body will keep going, I'll keep going.1 -
Warm up & cool down well.
Rehydrate, replenish nutrients and rest sufficiently.
As you keep going, it gets easier
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Jthanmyfitnesspal wrote: »NorthCascades wrote: »How is it possible that the same heart can have a different maximum rate for running vs cycling?
I'll bite on that one: how is it possible? It seems like I have the same for both. (And for swimming.) I can easily hit the same HRs in all three sports just by doing intervals in that sport.
Ditto, though I've never attempted for swimming.
The study that showed different HRmax for athletes was based on runners that eventually took up and trained in biking as triathletes.
When another was done for bikers that took up running for triathlons, they had the same on avg.
https://www.active.com/articles/why-are-there-heart-rate-discrepancies-in-cycling-vs-running
I started out as runner in teenage years, but then did years of bike focus with running being the recovery level and endurance workout usually.0 -
Jthanmyfitnesspal wrote: »NorthCascades wrote: »How is it possible that the same heart can have a different maximum rate for running vs cycling?
I'll bite on that one: how is it possible? It seems like I have the same for both. (And for swimming.) I can easily hit the same HRs in all three sports just by doing intervals in that sport.
That's interesting. I've seen my highest HRs in high-intensity short endurance work (like rowing machine races), and that's close to how my max was tested (progressively increasing intensity every X seconds until I failed to be able to improve pace further). I don't think I have the technique to get to that HR in all of the activities I do (but I don't try to optimize more than one, limited soul that I am
).
The medical types who did my cardiac stress test (treadmill) made me stop when I hit about my age-estimated HR max, I guess because they figured they had their data, even though I still had enough energy and breath to argue with them about it. (IIRC, I was around 30-40 beats below my rowing machine observed max at that point.) 0
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