Vo2max not improving

idasnyiu

Three months ago I could not run to the next street so I started doing couch 2 5k. Last run I did at the weekend past was 5k in 38 mins. By no means spectacular but it’s great improvement for me.
My Apple Watch series 1 tracks VO2max and throughout the entire couch 2 5k programme it’s stagnating around 30 which puts me in the poor range. At the same I had been eating better, my weight dropped 15lbs to give me a BMI of 25.
Is there limitation with the Apple Watch?
My health is not improving at all or not improved enough to see difference in the number?
Or there is other explanations?

Any opinions welcomed!

anneharper490

Sorry Idasnylu, I can't shed any light for you as I barely understand V02. But I have a BMI of around 40. Last week I used the treadmill to walk. I did a 10 min fit-test and had a VO2 of 44. I would not really call myself fit as I am obese but I did score 5/5.

TavistockToad

idasnyiu wrote: »

Three months ago I could not run to the next street so I started doing couch 2 5k. Last run I did at the weekend past was 5k in 38 mins. By no means spectacular but it’s great improvement for me.
My Apple Watch series 1 tracks VO2max and throughout the entire couch 2 5k programme it’s stagnating around 30 which puts me in the poor range. At the same I had been eating better, my weight dropped 15lbs to give me a BMI of 25.
Is there limitation with the Apple Watch?
My health is not improving at all or not improved enough to see difference in the number?
Or there is other explanations?

Any opinions welcomed!

is there a reason you need to know and track your VO2max?

if not, then why not just be happy that you have completed C25K?

idasnyiu

TavistockToad wrote: »

idasnyiu wrote: »

Three months ago I could not run to the next street so I started doing couch 2 5k. Last run I did at the weekend past was 5k in 38 mins. By no means spectacular but it’s great improvement for me.
My Apple Watch series 1 tracks VO2max and throughout the entire couch 2 5k programme it’s stagnating around 30 which puts me in the poor range. At the same I had been eating better, my weight dropped 15lbs to give me a BMI of 25.
Is there limitation with the Apple Watch?
My health is not improving at all or not improved enough to see difference in the number?
Or there is other explanations?

Any opinions welcomed!

is there a reason you need to know and track your VO2max?

if not, then why not just be happy that you have completed C25K?

Of course I'm glad and happy that I completed c25k, but one of the reasons I started c25k was because my VO2max was in the poor/fair range and it's one area I wanted to improve on. I'm not obsessed about it, I'm just wondering with the vast knowledge of the members of this forum, someone might be able to shed light on my question.

gcconroy29

The consensus seems to be interval training, which I keep meaning to try to improve my VO2max as well. I never seem to get around to it though. Let me know if you have any luck.

https://www.runnersworld.com/training/a20792551/how-to-improve-your-vo2-maz-com/

jjpptt2

I'd wonder if the "no change" is more a result of trying to measure/track it with an apple watch vs actually not seeing any improvement over the course of C25K?

ninerbuff

VO2 max gets improved by doing sprints or high intensity spurts of cardio. Steady state running doesn't increase it that much.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

kcjchang

The estimate is based off pace and doesn't mean anything for steady state endurance efforts. At best it provides a benchmark of the current effort again your established ceiling (accumulated datastore of previous efforts). FWIW, your better off tracking resting heart rate, RPE, and/or pace. They will give more indication on your fitness. To test for VO2 Max, try the Cooper 12-minute run Test or go to a lab. You need to repeat the testing protocol (consistently) to gauge change in fitness.

CSARdiver

VO2max is one of the most challenging metrics to improve. It requires specific interval training and massive dedication. It takes years for your body to react to your behavior and this requires consistency on your part. Your body is manufacturing new vasculature to support your new activity.

Azdak

ninerbuff wrote: »

VO2 max gets improved by doing sprints or high intensity spurts of cardio. Steady state running doesn't increase it that much.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

As long as the intensity is at a training threshold, VO2 max can increase, whether steady state or interval. Interval training might do it more quickly because one can push a higher intensity, but literally tens of millions of people have substantially increased VO2 max in the past 50 years utilizing steady-state exercise.

OP’s problem is that he is using an inappropriate tool to measure VO2 max, not because his VO2 max is not increasing. It is.

NorthCascades

If you've gone from unable to run at all to able to finish a 5k and lost weight at the same time, your fitness including your VO2max has clearly improved.

Obviously your watch is estimating it, there was no mask measuring gas exchange. Seems pretty clear to me this is where the error is. Were you using a chest strap or the wrist monitor?

sijomial

Remember you aren't measuring VO2 max unless your breath is going through a gas analyser.
Your watch might be making a rough estimate based on resting HR like my Polar's so called fitness test (or some other metric) but it's not measuring VO2 max so yes it's a limitation with your watch.

As your actual performance/fitness is improving that's the main thing. Congrats!

NorthCascades

VO2max = the most (maximum) oxygen you can use. Traditionally it's per minute. And most people and devices don't consider how much total oxygen you can use, it's how much per kilogram. A value of 30 is definitely normalized to your weight, it means 30 ml per kg per kg.

That's why losing weight affects your VO2max, because now you have fewer kgs to divide by.

Research has shown that when you first start running, if your leg muscles have never really been used before, they're your limit. They literally can't take up oxygen as fast as you can deliver it. But that stage doesn't last long at all. For any kind of athlete, delivery is always the limiting factor. People tend to recommend intervals, but at this stage just moderate exercise to build your aerobic base is what pays the most dividends.

As you continue your heart literally gets stronger, aka your stroke volume increases, and you send out more oxygenated blood per beat. Your blood starts pretty quickly to have more plasma in it, the better to carry oxygen with. Your resting heart rate goes down because your whole system is running more efficiently.

BrianSharpe

I'm with Azdak in that the issue is with how you're measuring it, an Apple watch or Garmin etc only estimates V02max if you really want to know what it is you need to be tested, the fact that you've improved your running ability this much is proof that your V02max has also improved. (FWIW my Garmin would lead me to believe that I'm in the top 5% for my age group, while flattering I tend to take it with a very large grain of salt)

Vladimirnapkin

https://www.runnersworld.com/gear/a20856601/can-your-watch-estimate-your-vo2-max/

ttippie2000

The apple watch estimates VO2 max based on running heart rate. It is an approximation that matches pretty well with VO2max...under normal conditions.

To actually measure VO2 max would take a lab. There’s lots if labs that do that, but it will cost you. They can give you several useful numbers in addition to VO2max.

Bear in mind that the watch doesn’t account for the fact that this time of year you may be extending your race pace to longer distances (which is a good mid-season strategy) or running in 100 degree heat. It also doesn’t account if you do a compound workout such as a bike-run brick and start your run s bit fatigued. There may be a couple of other gotchas, such as a hilly or muddy course, to consider.

Take the VO2max number in context with other metrics. If you have other metrics that are improving, such as your time in a mile, 5k, 10k or half marathon, and your doctor says you’re fine, then talk to your coach. You may be doing fine. And keep bustin’ out those intervals.

Vladimirnapkin

I'm tracking my estimated VO2MAX via my Garmin Fenix HR and processed through the Garmin Connect site. I've had it done in a lab, on a treadmill, several years ago. It seems like the estimate is reasonably close, if I factor in my current level of training and fitness.

One caveat is that it's just an estimate, and it's now showing me well below where I was in March (57 vs 63). While I haven't been running much over the last few months due to injury, I doubt the VO2max has really dropped that precipitously. (I've been on the bike.) It just doesn't have any running data to work from.

These estimates are very dependent on the HR data, so if that's weak, the numbers will be weak.

And yes, I know these are just estimates and not terribly important. It's just nice to see data indicating that your efforts are having a training benefit.

NorthCascades

With Garmin watches, and anything else that uses the FirstBeat algorithm to determine your VO2max, it's critical that it knows your "true and correct" maximum heart rate. It's probably the case for Apple Watch as well.

Basically, you're running at X pace (or putting out Z watts on a bike) at Y heart rate. Y is whatever % of your max. Your VO2max obviously only occurs at your maximum heart rate because below that you can still deliver more oxygen. It's a little more complicated because of things like it doesn't fill all the way up at full speed, but that's the gist of it, and that's why the formula really needs your max HR to get in the right ballpark.

yirara

VO2 max via a watch is just a gimmick, really! If you happen to have a higher than average heartrate when running (mostly genetics) then you won't get a good estimated VO2 max on your watch. I experimented a bit with my fitbit as I could not get that stupid number down either. If I told it I was running while I was in fact walking I got better numbers as my heartrate was lower.

fuzzylop72

For running, is vo2max all that important? Is it really that much better than vdot (which is much easier to calculate)? It seems like they both keeping you in aprox the right(ish) intensity, but i'm not too knowledgeable about running.