Cutting calories to lose weight while gaining muscle mass at the same time

Icy_Fox
Icy_Fox Posts: 90 Member
in Health and Weight Loss
Hey guys, been trying to lose some more weight (mainly to get to a comfortable spot I can stay at), but I'd also like to gain some muscle mass. I don't really get how I can both lose weight (so a calorie deficit) while gaining mass (which would from what I understand require a calorie sufficiency). Could someone help me with understanding this better?
Thanks

Replies

  • Samm471
    Samm471 Posts: 432 Member
    I always thought you could do both at the same time? If your lifting weights and losing fat and your strength increases on a weekly basis does that not mean your building muscle? You need more muscle to lift heavier weights each week? Not sure but that's what I always thought 😕
  • tcunbeliever
    tcunbeliever Posts: 8,219 Member
    I have had success with leangains, which you can google to your hearts content, it's calorie/carb cycling so you eat a surplus on your lifting days and a deficit on the non-lifiting days.

    easy macros here:
    https://rippedbody.com/how-to-calculate-leangains-macros/

    For MFP, I just have an "offset meal" that I key in on the non-lifting days to reduce calories/carbs to necessary levels
  • sardelsa
    sardelsa Posts: 9,812 Member
    tcunbeliever wrote: »
    I have had success with leangains, which you can google to your hearts content, it's calorie/carb cycling so you eat a surplus on your lifting days and a deficit on the non-lifiting days.

    easy macros here:
    https://rippedbody.com/how-to-calculate-leangains-macros/

    For MFP, I just have an "offset meal" that I key in on the non-lifting days to reduce calories/carbs to necessary levels

    What is your net overall intake? Deficit or maintenance?
  • heybales
    heybales Posts: 18,842 Member
    Shouldn't the excess calories be in the 24 hrs after the lifting to be used for recovery and rebuilding?
    I guess if morning lifting, within the day works, especially before bed.
    tcunbeliever wrote: »
    I have had success with leangains, which you can google to your hearts content, it's calorie/carb cycling so you eat a surplus on your lifting days and a deficit on the non-lifiting days.

    easy macros here:
    https://rippedbody.com/how-to-calculate-leangains-macros/

    For MFP, I just have an "offset meal" that I key in on the non-lifting days to reduce calories/carbs to necessary levels

  • Scottgriesser
    Scottgriesser Posts: 172 Member
    edited August 2018
    Icy_Fox wrote: »
    Hey guys, been trying to lose some more weight (mainly to get to a comfortable spot I can stay at), but I'd also like to gain some muscle mass. I don't really get how I can both lose weight (so a calorie deficit) while gaining mass (which would from what I understand require a calorie sufficiency). Could someone help me with understanding this better?
    Thanks

    Short answer:
    You can't do both at the same time. You can maintain muscle mass, gain strength (brain tells you you can lift more), and lose fat all at the same time, though. This will shape your body in a positive way which I believe is your goal. Make the muscles pop, as they say.

    Shorter answer:
    (Paraphrasing) You can, but you need to meet x,y,z,a,b,c,1,2,3, and * stipulations all for a minimal difference than the short answer.
  • lynn_glenmont
    lynn_glenmont Posts: 10,093 Member
    tcunbeliever wrote: »
    I have had success with leangains, which you can google to your hearts content, it's calorie/carb cycling so you eat a surplus on your lifting days and a deficit on the non-lifiting days.

    easy macros here:
    https://rippedbody.com/how-to-calculate-leangains-macros/

    For MFP, I just have an "offset meal" that I key in on the non-lifting days to reduce calories/carbs to necessary levels

    This pretty much makes no sense as a strategy for gaining muscle, since your body repairs and, if possible, adds muscle on non-lifting (rest/recovery) days. You don't need that much extra energy to lift, unless you're doing two- or three-hour balls-to-the-wall sessions. You need extra energy to on recovery days so your body isn't trying to fuel your deficit with the protein you're consuming for muscle repair.
  • mmapags
    mmapags Posts: 8,934 Member
    wdedoelder wrote: »
    From what I have read, when you gain muscle mass, your body burns more calories. You gain muscle mass through exercise (ie cardio and lifting).

    A couple of points. The calorie burn increase is 6 to 8 calories per day per lb of additional muscle. So, the benefit is not much. Secondly, cardio doesn't build muscle mass except a slight amount for a short time in untrained individual. Resistance training is what does that. A woman can put on 1/2 lb per week under ideal conditions, eg calorie surplus, adequate protein and the right program. A man about 1 b per week. Negligible for weight loss.

    OP I think you've gotten some great advice here. You may gain a little muscle mass, particularly at first if you are either new to training or returning after a layoff. A small deficit will optimize your efforts to gain muscle but you will lose fat more slowly. You don't really say how much fat you are looking to lose.

    The key is to preserve what you've got while you lose fat. Then you can bulk and gain muscle or recomp and slowly add muscle while dropping additional fat.

    It's hard to gain an appreciable amount of muscle mass in a deficit.
  • viajera99
    viajera99 Posts: 252 Member
    Here's a good article on the topic: https://www.aworkoutroutine.com/how-to-build-muscle-and-lose-fat/

    His short answer:
    There are primarily 4 groups of people who can do it. In no specific order, they are:

    Fat Beginners
    People Regaining Lost Muscle
    Genetic Freaks
    Steroid/Drug Users
  • h1udd
    h1udd Posts: 623 Member
    are you lifting ? .. if not start now and stick to your deficit and eat a decent amount of protein ... by the time you finish losing fat, you will have spared what muscle you have, you will have made strength gains through neuromuscular adaption and your body will be ready to start growing as you feed it more.
  • xxzenabxx
    xxzenabxx Posts: 935 Member
    You can only build newbie gains in a deficit or if you have amazing genetics. That’s why some people who are new to lifting think they are building tonnes of muscle and losing fat. What is happening is you build abit of muscle and then you strip away the layer of fat which makes you look more ripped/muscular.
  • mmapags
    mmapags Posts: 8,934 Member
    CookieVenator wrote: »
    Don't look at the scales. If somehow you can gain muscle mass and loose weight your scales won't show it. You need to take body measurements.

    I agree on body measurement but most people can lose fat faster than they can gain muscle in a deficit. You might be able to pull off a 1/1 fat to muscle in a small deficit with a great program and enough protein but its unlikely in a deficit.
  • Packerjohn
    Packerjohn Posts: 4,855 Member
    edited August 2018
    mmapags wrote: »
    wdedoelder wrote: »
    From what I have read, when you gain muscle mass, your body burns more calories. You gain muscle mass through exercise (ie cardio and lifting).

    A couple of points. The calorie burn increase is 6 to 8 calories per day per lb of additional muscle. So, the benefit is not much. Secondly, cardio doesn't build muscle mass except a slight amount for a short time in untrained individual. Resistance training is what does that. A woman can put on 1/2 lb per week under ideal conditions, eg calorie surplus, adequate protein and the right program. A man about 1 b per week. Negligible for weight loss.

    OP I think you've gotten some great advice here. You may gain a little muscle mass, particularly at first if you are either new to training or returning after a layoff. A small deficit will optimize your efforts to gain muscle but you will lose fat more slowly. You don't really say how much fat you are looking to lose.

    The key is to preserve what you've got while you lose fat. Then you can bulk and gain muscle or recomp and slowly add muscle while dropping additional fat.

    It's hard to gain an appreciable amount of muscle mass in a deficit.

    Are you saying a male can gain 4 pounds of muscle a month (without chemical help)? What I have typically seen is MAYBE 2 pounds, but even that is with ideal conditions and a high level training program (like major college/pro football offseason training) and not a long term trainee.

    Would be interested in your sources. Thanks.
  • mmapags
    mmapags Posts: 8,934 Member
    Packerjohn wrote: »
    mmapags wrote: »
    wdedoelder wrote: »
    From what I have read, when you gain muscle mass, your body burns more calories. You gain muscle mass through exercise (ie cardio and lifting).

    A couple of points. The calorie burn increase is 6 to 8 calories per day per lb of additional muscle. So, the benefit is not much. Secondly, cardio doesn't build muscle mass except a slight amount for a short time in untrained individual. Resistance training is what does that. A woman can put on 1/2 lb per week under ideal conditions, eg calorie surplus, adequate protein and the right program. A man about 1 b per week. Negligible for weight loss.

    OP I think you've gotten some great advice here. You may gain a little muscle mass, particularly at first if you are either new to training or returning after a layoff. A small deficit will optimize your efforts to gain muscle but you will lose fat more slowly. You don't really say how much fat you are looking to lose.

    The key is to preserve what you've got while you lose fat. Then you can bulk and gain muscle or recomp and slowly add muscle while dropping additional fat.

    It's hard to gain an appreciable amount of muscle mass in a deficit.

    Are you saying a male can gain 4 pounds of muscle a month (without chemical help)? What I have typically seen is MAYBE 2 pounds, but even that is with ideal conditions and a high level training program (like major college/pro football offseason training) and not a long term trainee.

    Would be interested in your sources. Thanks.

    Yes, good pickup. I am mistaken and you are correct. I double the effective optimum numbers for men and women. Thanks for pointing that out.

    The probable effective rate of gain is likely less.
    https://bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/muscle-gain-math.html/
  • Stellamom2018
    Stellamom2018 Posts: 120 Member
    I'm slightly confused. So I should continue my weight loss, calorie deficit, doing cardio and strength training until I reach my weight goal. THEN i would begin eating at a maintenance or surplus to do a body recomp?
  • Packerjohn
    Packerjohn Posts: 4,855 Member
    mmapags wrote: »
    Packerjohn wrote: »
    mmapags wrote: »
    wdedoelder wrote: »
    From what I have read, when you gain muscle mass, your body burns more calories. You gain muscle mass through exercise (ie cardio and lifting).

    A couple of points. The calorie burn increase is 6 to 8 calories per day per lb of additional muscle. So, the benefit is not much. Secondly, cardio doesn't build muscle mass except a slight amount for a short time in untrained individual. Resistance training is what does that. A woman can put on 1/2 lb per week under ideal conditions, eg calorie surplus, adequate protein and the right program. A man about 1 b per week. Negligible for weight loss.

    OP I think you've gotten some great advice here. You may gain a little muscle mass, particularly at first if you are either new to training or returning after a layoff. A small deficit will optimize your efforts to gain muscle but you will lose fat more slowly. You don't really say how much fat you are looking to lose.

    The key is to preserve what you've got while you lose fat. Then you can bulk and gain muscle or recomp and slowly add muscle while dropping additional fat.

    It's hard to gain an appreciable amount of muscle mass in a deficit.

    Are you saying a male can gain 4 pounds of muscle a month (without chemical help)? What I have typically seen is MAYBE 2 pounds, but even that is with ideal conditions and a high level training program (like major college/pro football offseason training) and not a long term trainee.

    Would be interested in your sources. Thanks.

    Yes, good pickup. I am mistaken and you are correct. I double the effective optimum numbers for men and women. Thanks for pointing that out.

    The probable effective rate of gain is likely less.
    https://bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/muscle-gain-math.html/

    Darn, you're on top of most of this stuff. Thought I was missing the secret sauce :).
  • Packerjohn
    Packerjohn Posts: 4,855 Member
    edited August 2018
    Stellamom2018 wrote: »
    I'm slightly confused. So I should continue my weight loss, calorie deficit, doing cardio and strength training until I reach my weight goal. THEN i would begin eating at a maintenance or surplus to do a body recomp?

    I'd try and simplify as much as possible (believe a few other poster said basically the same thing above). You still want to lose weight, to do this you must be in a calorie deficit. I would continue to lift and do your cardio, eat at a small deficit. You will get in shape, lose the weight, preserve the muscle you have (maybe gain a slight bit).

    You will look like you are gaining muscle since you are lifting to maintain (or slightly build muscle) and losing fat so your BF% will decrease.

    When you get to the weight you want, then you can look at the recomp and/or bulk/cut methods of gaining muscle.

    Best of luck.
  • mmapags
    mmapags Posts: 8,934 Member
    Packerjohn wrote: »
    Stellamom2018 wrote: »
    I'm slightly confused. So I should continue my weight loss, calorie deficit, doing cardio and strength training until I reach my weight goal. THEN i would begin eating at a maintenance or surplus to do a body recomp?

    I'd try and simplify as much as possible (believe a few other poster said basically the same thing above). You still want to lose weight, to do this you must be in a calorie deficit. I would continue to lift and do your cardio, eat at a small deficit. You will get in shape, lose the weight, preserve the muscle you have (maybe gain a slight bit).

    You will look like you are gaining muscle since you are lifting to maintain (or slightly build muscle) and losing fat so your BF% will decrease.

    When you get to the weight you want, then you can look at the recomp and/or bulk/cut methods of gaining muscle.

    Best of luck.

    Agreed. Just for a slight clarification, recomp is eating at maintenance and slowly losing fat and gaining muscle. Bulk is to eat above maintenance to build muscle. You will gain some muscle and some fat doing this. There are great recommendations on how best to minimize fat gain in the bodyrecompostiion link above.

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