Ketogenic diet for weight loss:yes or no?
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Just go with a moderate calorie deficit and some exercise (with strength training). Don't make this harder than it needs to be!
^^YES
It might be worthwhile to consider that, for some people, "moderate calorie deficit" through standard dietary ratios is harder than accomplishing the same via a ketogenic diet.0 -
The only reason for such an extreme diet would be if you had a medical condition and it was recommended by your doctor/dietitian. For weight loss, going to such an extreme could actually hamper your long-term goal of *keeping* the extra fat off because you will not have learned proper portion sizes and you will likely gain back your losses and then some, once you have gone back to normal eating.
Being ketogenic is not "extreme" and is a natural human state (at least it was before our diets became dominated by sugar and processed grains). Most doctors know *kitten* about nutrition. Metabolic syndrome, with it's many effects, one of which is excess fat storage, is indeed a "medical condition" -albeit unrecognized except by Metabolic and sometimes diabetic specialists.
I agree that a ketogenic lifestyle is useless as a temporary "diet".
"Learning portion sizes" and "normal eating", what a crock. If one is malnourished, using "willpower" to control "portions" is completely futile.
Eliminating bread, peanuts, milk, cheese, beans, corn, etc,. ad nausem, is not about health unless you have allergies or intolerance. It is entirely unnecessary for anyone else. You'll only take my chocolate from my cold, dead hands!0 -
no...not necessary and no advantages over calorie deficit based diet.
Wrong. Just because you have not had an experience does not mean that it does not exist.
For some people, there are HUGE advantages over just cutting calories and some reading up on how metabolism works might help with understanding that. Our body is a complex system. Hormones regulate appetite, fat storage, and pretty much everything. Different foods affect hormones in different ways. Over-simplification of how are body operates is ridiculous and keeps many people from finding a solution to their health struggles.
I absolutely agree with this 100%. I am NOT a believer in "all calories are made equal" or whatever that saying is. Eating 1,600 calories a day in sugar, carbs, and processed junk is NOT the same to your body as eating 1,600 calories a day of lean meats, veggies, and fats. Yes, I suppose you can drop "weight" eating 1,600 calories of junk (as the guy who did the Twinkie Diet proved), but I don't want to drop pounds, I want to burn fat and maintain muscle. I want my body composition to change, not just my weight on the scale. I'd be perfectly fine seeing my weight stay exactly the same, but having a hard, well defined body.
I've done a paleo-esque (not going through all the details, but I slightly modified the paleo diet to suit my individual needs) for a few months now. I have enjoyed a small number of treats every now and then. I did not gain back massive amounts of weight by going off the plan for a meal or 2. I HAVE lost about 30 pounds of fat, gained 9 pounds of muscle, feel and look better than I've ever looked. I can see muscle definition and I'm a lot less jiggly than I ever have been. I've lost 30 pounds before by just cutting calories, but I was still the same body fat percentage.0 -
A ketogenic diet can work wonders for some people. I know people who have diabetes who can really keep it under control with diet if they go extremely low carb, and some people who don't seem to be able to control their carb eating are more successful by eliminating most carbs from their diets. You do need to be careful about high protein diets if you have kidney problems, even early kidney problems, so check with a doctor.0
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Short answer: YES!
Long answer:
I personally love being on a ketogenic diet.
I'm not hungry or starving, I eat waaayy more vegetables now then I even have in my entire life, feel healthier, and have more energy.
I mainly consume Butter, Avocados, Meat, Veggies, Cheese, Nuts...
What's not to love?
But, weight loss is ultimately caused because of a calorie deficit.
I figure, we all have to restrict something for weight loss. For me, being on a low carb, high fat diet allows me to eat delicious food, stay under my allotted calories, and not feel deprived.
To each their own though, there's no one way cookie cutter sure way to lose weight, we all have opinions, you just have to figure out what works for you, and stick with it.
Good luck!:drinker:0 -
The only reason for such an extreme diet would be if you had a medical condition and it was recommended by your doctor/dietitian. For weight loss, going to such an extreme could actually hamper your long-term goal of *keeping* the extra fat off because you will not have learned proper portion sizes and you will likely gain back your losses and then some, once you have gone back to normal eating.
Being ketogenic is not "extreme" and is a natural human state (at least it was before our diets became dominated by sugar and processed grains). Most doctors know *kitten* about nutrition. Metabolic syndrome, with it's many effects, one of which is excess fat storage, is indeed a "medical condition" -albeit unrecognized except by Metabolic and sometimes diabetic specialists.
I agree that a ketogenic lifestyle is useless as a temporary "diet".
"Learning portion sizes" and "normal eating", what a crock. If one is malnourished, using "willpower" to control "portions" is completely futile.
Eliminating bread, peanuts, milk, cheese, beans, corn, etc,. ad nausem, is not about health unless you have allergies or intolerance. It is entirely unnecessary for anyone else. You'll only take my chocolate from my cold, dead hands!
I'm not sure you understand the diet. Full fat cheese is encouraged for most people. Dairy is only removed if a person is having trouble with processing it. Milk has sugar (lactose) so yes this is removed but Heavy cream is used instead. Peanuts are not the best but can be incorporated. Chocolate is allowed, just dark chocolate or unsweetened chocolate sweetened with no carb sugar substitutes. Bread, beans and corn, yes they are removed. But you can eat other veggies and full fat dressings, meats with fat, chicken with skin, all of the good tasting fatty foods that are considered "bad foods" for a low fat diet are encouraged. But this must be in conjunction with low carbs. High carb with high fat is very bad.0 -
The only reason for such an extreme diet would be if you had a medical condition and it was recommended by your doctor/dietitian. For weight loss, going to such an extreme could actually hamper your long-term goal of *keeping* the extra fat off because you will not have learned proper portion sizes and you will likely gain back your losses and then some, once you have gone back to normal eating.
Being ketogenic is not "extreme" and is a natural human state (at least it was before our diets became dominated by sugar and processed grains). Most doctors know *kitten* about nutrition. Metabolic syndrome, with it's many effects, one of which is excess fat storage, is indeed a "medical condition" -albeit unrecognized except by Metabolic and sometimes diabetic specialists.
I agree that a ketogenic lifestyle is useless as a temporary "diet".
"Learning portion sizes" and "normal eating", what a crock. If one is malnourished, using "willpower" to control "portions" is completely futile.
Eliminating bread, peanuts, milk, cheese, beans, corn, etc,. ad nausem, is not about health unless you have allergies or intolerance. It is entirely unnecessary for anyone else. You'll only take my chocolate from my cold, dead hands!
I'm not sure you understand the diet. Full fat cheese is encouraged for most people. Dairy is only removed if a person is having trouble with processing it. Milk has sugar (lactose) so yes this is removed but Heavy cream is used instead. Peanuts are not the best but can be incorporated. Chocolate is allowed, just dark chocolate or unsweetened chocolate sweetened with no carb sugar substitutes. Bread, beans and corn, yes they are removed. But you can eat other veggies and full fat dressings, meats with fat, chicken with skin, all of the good tasting fatty foods that are considered "bad foods" for a low fat diet are encouraged. But this must be in conjunction with low carbs. High carb with high fat is very bad.
That's one of the things I find humorous about the criticisms of keto. The philosophy behind keto and the philosophy behind IIFYM are basically exactly the same -- the macros that keto fits to are just quite different.
With keto, one could say that after ensuring that their daily essential nutrients are taken in, you can eat whatever you would like that fits your macros. Keto isn't philosophically intertwined with paleo or eating clean.0 -
A ketogenic diet can work wonders for some people. I know people who have diabetes who can really keep it under control with diet if they go extremely low carb, and some people who don't seem to be able to control their carb eating are more successful by eliminating most carbs from their diets. You do need to be careful about high protein diets if you have kidney problems, even early kidney problems, so check with a doctor.
The ketogenic diet is not a high protein diet. A proper ketogenic diet is low carb, MODERATE PROTEIN, high fat, usually a good ratio would be around 5% carbs/30% Protein/ 65% Fat. Protein should be around .4-.6g per lb of lean body mass for most normally active people.0 -
There is a difference between low carbing and ketogenic diet, and if you "low carb high fat" without going low enough to get the keto fix, but still eat all those fats, you're likely to do more harm than good. So you have to be serious about this keto thing. My husband and I have been low carbing for a year now and were doing great. Until just recently, the last few months, when we started sneaking in pizza here and there. It totally screwed me up and now I have a gallstone. I think it happened because I wasn't in ketosis and therefore not burning the fat.0
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I became unintentionally keto when I started eating a more paleo diet. I lost 20 lbs extremely easily within 3-4 months and have kept it off and then some. I was averaging at around 20g of carbs a day but could stay in ketosis at around 50g. The only reason why I stopped and started eating more carbs was because I weight train and found it impossible for me to finish my workouts. Now I follow a more balanced approach of calories in vs. calories out but still try and eat less processed carbs. My macros were around 5/35/60, but now they are around 20/40/40 and I feel a lot better with a little bit more carbs and I'm trying to up my protein more as well. Weight loss has slowed down of course, but I have passed my original goal weight of 125 (120 now) so now I am more focused on body composition. I'd say try it for a few weeks/months and see how your body adapts to it, it's not for everyone, especially longterm unless for medical reasons. It was a great way for me to lose weight, but my strength and performance suffered. At this point in my life, I probably wouldn't do it again.0
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A ketogenic diet can work wonders for some people. I know people who have diabetes who can really keep it under control with diet if they go extremely low carb, and some people who don't seem to be able to control their carb eating are more successful by eliminating most carbs from their diets. You do need to be careful about high protein diets if you have kidney problems, even early kidney problems, so check with a doctor.
The ketogenic diet is not a high protein diet. A proper ketogenic diet is low carb, MODERATE PROTEIN, high fat, usually a good ratio would be around 5% carbs/30% Protein/ 65% Fat. Protein should be around .4-.6g per lb of lean body mass for most normally active people.
When it comes to kidney disease, 30% protein could easily be a problem. If you cut any macro back significantly, you're likely to eat more of the other two to make up the difference. I'm not saying that people shouldn't do ketogenic diets, just that there are precautions to take.0 -
A ketogenic diet can work wonders for some people. I know people who have diabetes who can really keep it under control with diet if they go extremely low carb, and some people who don't seem to be able to control their carb eating are more successful by eliminating most carbs from their diets. You do need to be careful about high protein diets if you have kidney problems, even early kidney problems, so check with a doctor.
The ketogenic diet is not a high protein diet. A proper ketogenic diet is low carb, MODERATE PROTEIN, high fat, usually a good ratio would be around 5% carbs/30% Protein/ 65% Fat. Protein should be around .4-.6g per lb of lean body mass for most normally active people.
When it comes to kidney disease, 30% protein could easily be a problem. If you cut any macro back significantly, you're likely to eat more of the other two to make up the difference. I'm not saying that people shouldn't do ketogenic diets, just that there are precautions to take.
I agree precautions should be taken. That is why I specifically said that it is a moderate protein diet. Many people have the idea that it is high protein. Fat should be the replacement for carbs, not protein. You are correct too much protein is bad! A percentage can be a bad thing as you have said. This is why I gave both a number and percentage. I am not disagreeing with you. I am just explaining within the context of the ketogenic diet.0 -
The only reason for such an extreme diet would be if you had a medical condition and it was recommended by your doctor/dietitian. For weight loss, going to such an extreme could actually hamper your long-term goal of *keeping* the extra fat off because you will not have learned proper portion sizes and you will likely gain back your losses and then some, once you have gone back to normal eating.
Been eating keto for over 4 months. Why do you think that I don't know what proper portion sizes are? I weigh and measure all my food just like most of MFP does. I understand portion sizes very well, thank you very much. As far as I'm concerned, this is a lifestyle change. Anyone that thinks, after losing weight on any diet, that they can go back to 'normal eating' and not gain it all back is sadly mistaken.
Which is why that for *most* people, it's better to learn moderation of their favorite foods rather than simply avoiding them. I could go a month or two without ice cream, but not much longer than that.0 -
The only reason for such an extreme diet would be if you had a medical condition and it was recommended by your doctor/dietitian. For weight loss, going to such an extreme could actually hamper your long-term goal of *keeping* the extra fat off because you will not have learned proper portion sizes and you will likely gain back your losses and then some, once you have gone back to normal eating.
Being ketogenic is not "extreme" and is a natural human state (at least it was before our diets became dominated by sugar and processed grains). Most doctors know *kitten* about nutrition. Metabolic syndrome, with it's many effects, one of which is excess fat storage, is indeed a "medical condition" -albeit unrecognized except by Metabolic and sometimes diabetic specialists.
I agree that a ketogenic lifestyle is useless as a temporary "diet".
"Learning portion sizes" and "normal eating", what a crock. If one is malnourished, using "willpower" to control "portions" is completely futile.
Eliminating bread, peanuts, milk, cheese, beans, corn, etc,. ad nausem, is not about health unless you have allergies or intolerance. It is entirely unnecessary for anyone else. You'll only take my chocolate from my cold, dead hands!
I'm not sure you understand the diet. Full fat cheese is encouraged for most people. Dairy is only removed if a person is having trouble with processing it. Milk has sugar (lactose) so yes this is removed but Heavy cream is used instead. Peanuts are not the best but can be incorporated. Chocolate is allowed, just dark chocolate or unsweetened chocolate sweetened with no carb sugar substitutes. Bread, beans and corn, yes they are removed. But you can eat other veggies and full fat dressings, meats with fat, chicken with skin, all of the good tasting fatty foods that are considered "bad foods" for a low fat diet are encouraged. But this must be in conjunction with low carbs. High carb with high fat is very bad.
That's one of the things I find humorous about the criticisms of keto. The philosophy behind keto and the philosophy behind IIFYM are basically exactly the same -- the macros that keto fits to are just quite different.
With keto, one could say that after ensuring that their daily essential nutrients are taken in, you can eat whatever you would like that fits your macros. Keto isn't philosophically intertwined with paleo or eating clean.
Took the words right out of my mouth about misconceptions...thank you both!0 -
A ketogenic diet can work wonders for some people. I know people who have diabetes who can really keep it under control with diet if they go extremely low carb, and some people who don't seem to be able to control their carb eating are more successful by eliminating most carbs from their diets. You do need to be careful about high protein diets if you have kidney problems, even early kidney problems, so check with a doctor.
The ketogenic diet is not a high protein diet. A proper ketogenic diet is low carb, MODERATE PROTEIN, high fat, usually a good ratio would be around 5% carbs/30% Protein/ 65% Fat. Protein should be around .4-.6g per lb of lean body mass for most normally active people.
When it comes to kidney disease, 30% protein could easily be a problem. If you cut any macro back significantly, you're likely to eat more of the other two to make up the difference. I'm not saying that people shouldn't do ketogenic diets, just that there are precautions to take.
Precautions should definitely be taken when switching your diet (to anything), and it's always a good idea to get blood work done and have good communication with your doctor.
I'm not sure how diet is changed for those with kidney disease. For a normal person, though (and I know you weren't making this assertion, I just feel like it's worth mentioning) 30% protein is pretty normal and harmless. At 2000 calories a day, you're talking 150g of protein. For what it's worth, I actually would recommend lower than that for a ketogenic diet, but not from a kidney-sparing point of view.0 -
The only reason for such an extreme diet would be if you had a medical condition and it was recommended by your doctor/dietitian. For weight loss, going to such an extreme could actually hamper your long-term goal of *keeping* the extra fat off because you will not have learned proper portion sizes and you will likely gain back your losses and then some, once you have gone back to normal eating.
Being ketogenic is not "extreme" and is a natural human state (at least it was before our diets became dominated by sugar and processed grains). Most doctors know *kitten* about nutrition. Metabolic syndrome, with it's many effects, one of which is excess fat storage, is indeed a "medical condition" -albeit unrecognized except by Metabolic and sometimes diabetic specialists.
I agree that a ketogenic lifestyle is useless as a temporary "diet".
"Learning portion sizes" and "normal eating", what a crock. If one is malnourished, using "willpower" to control "portions" is completely futile.
Eliminating bread, peanuts, milk, cheese, beans, corn, etc,. ad nausem, is not about health unless you have allergies or intolerance. It is entirely unnecessary for anyone else. You'll only take my chocolate from my cold, dead hands!
I'm not sure you understand the diet. Full fat cheese is encouraged for most people. Dairy is only removed if a person is having trouble with processing it. Milk has sugar (lactose) so yes this is removed but Heavy cream is used instead. Peanuts are not the best but can be incorporated. Chocolate is allowed, just dark chocolate or unsweetened chocolate sweetened with no carb sugar substitutes. Bread, beans and corn, yes they are removed. But you can eat other veggies and full fat dressings, meats with fat, chicken with skin, all of the good tasting fatty foods that are considered "bad foods" for a low fat diet are encouraged. But this must be in conjunction with low carbs. High carb with high fat is very bad.
I was thinking paleo, which does eliminate dairy entirely, as well as peanuts (my favorite snack). Beans and cornbread is actually a very healthy meal, inexpensive, and quite delicious.0 -
In ANY weight loss there will be some muscle loss. There is no dispute amongst any journals of medicine or physiology on this. The amount lost will depend on some variables. And building muscle on calorie deficit, as well as being ketogenic is highly unlikely. To build muscle you are adding mass. To add mass, then weight increases. To variably "exchange" fat energy for muscle increase isn't as easy as it sounds. Here's a thread I posted on ketogenic diets and muscle building.I'll be upfront and say it works better for fat loss in the short term (lots of competitive body builders and fitness models do this for comps) however long term sustaining it takes a lot of discipline. It basically works by depleting lots of carbs from the system and utilizing protein and fat as energy sources. What most won't tell you is that carbs when absorbed hold glycogen and water in the muscle and liver at higher amounts than on a ketogenic diet. So initially the large weight loss comes from loss of water and glycogen. Touch any starchy, processed carb after that........................and it's not uncommon for a big weight gain (due to water and glycogen retention).
If you're looking to build muscle over the long haul, it's not gonna happen on ketogenic diet since there's lack of mTOR reaction.
If one isn't willing to stay off say cake, ice cream, or other sugary items for life, then chances are this isn't the diet they should use for weight loss.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
^I agree with much of the above. I do NOT think a ketogenic lifestyle should be used as a quick fix and anyone who decides to increase carbs needs to do so with caution, at a slow pace. Yes, there is water weight loss, but I can assure you that I did not lose 63 pounds of just water. My body is burning fat like crazy. I have also NOT lost muscle and am indeed building muscle. Muscle can be built while ketogenic because our body can manufacture glucose for the muscles (poster above is more knowledgeable about muscle building than myself, no doubt). Also, no ketogenic lifestyle is completely absent of carbohydrates. Mine come from vegetables for the most part.
Yes, if one is waiting for the day to go back to eating a high sugar/grain diet, then this is NOT the lifestyle for them. However, it IS my permanent lifestyle and it IS completely healthy. The health problems that have been resolved are nothing short of amazing. No piece of cake is worth poor health imo. For me, this lifestyle is not "hard" or "restrictive" but I do understand that it seems that way for other people.
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/578951-ketogenic-diets-not-good-for-muscle-building?hl=ketogenic+diets+don't+build+muscle#posts-12328942
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
In ANY weight loss there will be some muscle loss. There is no dispute amongst any journals of medicine or physiology on this. The amount lost will depend on some variables. And building muscle on calorie deficit, as well as being ketogenic is highly unlikely. To build muscle you are adding mass. To add mass, then weight increases. To variably "exchange" fat energy for muscle increase isn't as easy as it sounds. Here's a thread I posted on ketogenic diets and muscle building.I'll be upfront and say it works better for fat loss in the short term (lots of competitive body builders and fitness models do this for comps) however long term sustaining it takes a lot of discipline. It basically works by depleting lots of carbs from the system and utilizing protein and fat as energy sources. What most won't tell you is that carbs when absorbed hold glycogen and water in the muscle and liver at higher amounts than on a ketogenic diet. So initially the large weight loss comes from loss of water and glycogen. Touch any starchy, processed carb after that........................and it's not uncommon for a big weight gain (due to water and glycogen retention).
If you're looking to build muscle over the long haul, it's not gonna happen on ketogenic diet since there's lack of mTOR reaction.
If one isn't willing to stay off say cake, ice cream, or other sugary items for life, then chances are this isn't the diet they should use for weight loss.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
^I agree with much of the above. I do NOT think a ketogenic lifestyle should be used as a quick fix and anyone who decides to increase carbs needs to do so with caution, at a slow pace. Yes, there is water weight loss, but I can assure you that I did not lose 63 pounds of just water. My body is burning fat like crazy. I have also NOT lost muscle and am indeed building muscle. Muscle can be built while ketogenic because our body can manufacture glucose for the muscles (poster above is more knowledgeable about muscle building than myself, no doubt). Also, no ketogenic lifestyle is completely absent of carbohydrates. Mine come from vegetables for the most part.
Yes, if one is waiting for the day to go back to eating a high sugar/grain diet, then this is NOT the lifestyle for them. However, it IS my permanent lifestyle and it IS completely healthy. The health problems that have been resolved are nothing short of amazing. No piece of cake is worth poor health imo. For me, this lifestyle is not "hard" or "restrictive" but I do understand that it seems that way for other people.
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/578951-ketogenic-diets-not-good-for-muscle-building?hl=ketogenic+diets+don't+build+muscle#posts-12328942
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Thank you! I'll check it out0 -
Comparison of energy-restricted very low-carbohydrate and low-fat diets on weight loss and body composition in overweight men and women.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/155332500 -
I have lost about 1/2 my weight keto and the other 1/2 IIFYM and I have lost ZERO lean mass according to a calculator on bodybuilding.com. Anyhow, I attribute this to making sure I get 1g of protein/lb of lean mass and lifting. You don't need to be keto to keep your lean mass and lost strictly fat, you need only provide your body with adequate protein (which is different for everyone)0
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