Training to strengths vs weaknesses
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I've done both in the past. Back squats have always been the lift that is most unnatural feeling for me and I struggled with it for a long time. I've had periods when I went really hard trying to work on them and then periods when I didn't do them at all since they aren't required unless you're competing in them and I'm not. When I first started lifting, I worried way too much about the fact that I sucked at them so I tended to push on them really hard and that really just made me more stressed than necessary. Nowadays I don't get so stressed about them and I'm happy to let progression happen as it happens without being disappointed that I'm always "behind" others who have lifted as long as I have.
So you still train in areas you are weak, but accept that progression will be slower than with other lifts?
I saw your follow up post and I think your plan to lift around your sweet spot is fine. Right now I'm doing a mash up of two Andy Baker's programs (strength & mass over 40 and a sample plan he has on his website for building delts) and feel like I've finally found a great plan for me. It's nice to feel like I've found my sweet spot
Yea, I'm not too worried about it. The post was more to generate conversation than to address/answer a specific question.
There are a lot of posts on here to the effect of "do whatever you want, the best workout is the one you'll do"... then there are a lot of other posts along the lines of "do an established, proven, boxed program, period." Rarely is there any talk about the gray area in between... gray area that I think can be perfectly fine/reasonable for a lot of us MFPers.
I think a combination of doing something you enjoy and will stick to, as well workouts that will give you progress/results according to your goals are important. I mean if you enjoy lifting the same weights same reps every week or avoid anything uncomfortable then that could obviously be an issue in terms of progress. On the other hand if someone was told that full body 3x per week is the most optimal for their goals but they HATE training that way and frequently skip the gym then that is an issue too. There needs to be a balance of the two, at least that is how I feel about it.
Good point, and probably good to say it specifically. I think that idea often gets left out in the contextual void that is MFP. I do wonder, though, if that requires a degree of experience or self-awareness that most beginners don't have. We as a community can recommend what will work, but it's hard for us to suggest what they will enjoy/respond to.
Good post, Stef.1 -
I've done both in the past. Back squats have always been the lift that is most unnatural feeling for me and I struggled with it for a long time. I've had periods when I went really hard trying to work on them and then periods when I didn't do them at all since they aren't required unless you're competing in them and I'm not. When I first started lifting, I worried way too much about the fact that I sucked at them so I tended to push on them really hard and that really just made me more stressed than necessary. Nowadays I don't get so stressed about them and I'm happy to let progression happen as it happens without being disappointed that I'm always "behind" others who have lifted as long as I have.
So you still train in areas you are weak, but accept that progression will be slower than with other lifts?
I saw your follow up post and I think your plan to lift around your sweet spot is fine. Right now I'm doing a mash up of two Andy Baker's programs (strength & mass over 40 and a sample plan he has on his website for building delts) and feel like I've finally found a great plan for me. It's nice to feel like I've found my sweet spot
Yea, I'm not too worried about it. The post was more to generate conversation than to address/answer a specific question.
There are a lot of posts on here to the effect of "do whatever you want, the best workout is the one you'll do"... then there are a lot of other posts along the lines of "do an established, proven, boxed program, period." Rarely is there any talk about the gray area in between... gray area that I think can be perfectly fine/reasonable for a lot of us MFPers.
I think a combination of doing something you enjoy and will stick to, as well workouts that will give you progress/results according to your goals are important. I mean if you enjoy lifting the same weights same reps every week or avoid anything uncomfortable then that could obviously be an issue in terms of progress. On the other hand if someone was told that full body 3x per week is the most optimal for their goals but they HATE training that way and frequently skip the gym then that is an issue too. There needs to be a balance of the two, at least that is how I feel about it.
Good point, and probably good to say it specifically. I think that idea often gets left out in the contextual void that is MFP. I do wonder, though, if that requires a degree of experience or self-awareness that most beginners don't have. We as a community can recommend what will work, but it's hard for us to suggest what they will enjoy/respond to.
Good post, Stef.
Yea the thing is we can only do so much from the other side of a keyboard right. Typically we will lead beginners to the lifting link where they can go over several different programs and see what they think will work for them. In the end they have to try things out and see what they enjoy. But.. is that always what is best for their goals? Maybe not.
People will sometimes become married to programs and styles of training because that is what they are used to, and they may not want to venture out of their comfort zone. I am guilty of this as well. But if someone stops seeing desired progress or hates what they are doing in the gym, something has to change.
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JustinAnimal wrote: »Train to weakness keeping strengths current. As in life, you have to practice that which you can't do.
I think it depends in what context you are talking about. In terms of training employees, the recent philosophy is that you train their strengths. What's the point in having everyone specialize in everything when it's a slow and agonizing process in that particular environment? The prevailing logic (or trend) these days, is find strengths (e.g. StrengthsFinder and all that Steadman Graham stuff) and capitalize on those.
In terms of strength training, I just always remember to train my back as often as I can remember to and don't skip legs day.
Funny, I thought we were discussing "Fitness and Exercise". The point is having everyone well versed, at least, in all jobs is so if someone gets sick, goes on vacation, dies, someone else on staff is ready to step in. The "recent philosophy" is wrong. You don't have everyone "specialize in everything" you ensure that everyone knows everything about the job so everyone can help out as necessary. Otherwise you get of lot of "That's not my job, man". But, that's just my opinion. Train to weakness, keep up with, always improving, strengths. Otherwise, you become unbalanced, both personally and as a workforce.2 -
In my case for example, I hate lifting near my 1RM, and will rarely do really heavy sets but I do include lower rep work like 3x5-6 for one or two exercises per cycle from time to time to challenge and push myself out of the comfort zone. It's not the majority of my program, and its lifts I am typically comfortable with so that is how I compromise.
Most people never actually train near their true 1RM. It's has very limited benefits and is basically ego lifting.
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In my case for example, I hate lifting near my 1RM, and will rarely do really heavy sets but I do include lower rep work like 3x5-6 for one or two exercises per cycle from time to time to challenge and push myself out of the comfort zone. It's not the majority of my program, and its lifts I am typically comfortable with so that is how I compromise.
Most people never actually train near their true 1RM. It's has very limited benefits and is basically ego lifting.
Good to know! A part of me thought I was short changing myself by staying away from it.1 -
In my case for example, I hate lifting near my 1RM, and will rarely do really heavy sets but I do include lower rep work like 3x5-6 for one or two exercises per cycle from time to time to challenge and push myself out of the comfort zone. It's not the majority of my program, and its lifts I am typically comfortable with so that is how I compromise.
Most people never actually train near their true 1RM. It's has very limited benefits and is basically ego lifting.
Good to know! A part of me thought I was short changing myself by staying away from it.
Not at all. We both probably train very simular rep ranges and intensity. Most obvious difference is specificity of lifts and quantity of different lifts.
Get yours
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I'm just curious if/how people allow their own individual strengths or weaknesses to impact their training. I'm thinking about this in the context of strength training, but it probably applies across the board.
Do you train specifically to improve in areas you see as weaknesses? Do you focus more on strengths, and try to be really good in those areas? Or is it strictly about goals and programming, and you let the progression happen on its own?
And more specifically, what does this mean for your individual training?
I started just training for building muscle for the purpose of losing weight.
I did a modified 5X5 Stronglifts program.
As a teen, I once benched 90lbs, and wanted to do that again. So I had a strength goal. Reached it, then looked longingly at those 45lb plates the men next to me were benching.
So I worked up to bench 135. This helped with sports, as I do calisthenics and gymnastics, so the upper body strength really helped A LOT with getting skills in my sports.
A friend who was a PT noticed I was lopsided in my strength, as I was benching 185 and squatting 135lbs, and had a flat butt. So she basically encouraged/nagged me to lift my lower body heavier and more frequently to fix the noassatall condition I had at the time. That has been fixed, although I'm still working for more rounding and for the glute tie-in.
I've got to a point with my training where I really have to be more selective with lifts, because I'm really muscular now. My belly is what it is (I'm being nice to myself with this language) even though it has gone down significantly, so now I need to consider aesthetics, which for me, means more cardio and less frequency on compound lifts, and more focused, muscle specific training.
In the process of trying to lose fat, I found out that God has gifted me with strength and athleticism. There is a part of me that just wants to keep going, to compete in powerlifting, to see what the potential is.
These are my PRs.
Bench 205lbs
Squat 375lbs
Deadlift 275lbs
Non-linear leg press 771lbs
Weighted Plank 70lbs
So to your question, in the course of time, I worked on both strengths and weaknesses, and worked both on sports goals and allowed progression and also specific to aesthetics. Good question, OP.
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I do a strange niche of competitive indoor masters rowing. I'm decently competitive at it on a regional level and I'm wanting to be more competitive on a national level.
I find if I don't have a plan, I avoid my weaknesses. I broke my PB of 7:19 on a 2K row this year by moving it to a 7:11, which is a huge leap. My "weakness" is (aside from not being built for rowing whatsoever) is cardio conditioning. I noticed early this year that I was taking towel off breaks on longer rows (over 5K) every time I did one. One of my club challenges was a 10K row (something I used to do regularly a few years ago) and I couldn't do a 10K without stopping for a few seconds and toweling off. Being how that was one of the benchmark times I'm aiming for this year (sub 40 minute 10K), I first better be able to do one without stopping first!
A huge help to me is online training partners (I have some awesome ones). When we commit to a plan, we take pics of the monitor/performance so that everyone sees it. This keeps everyone accountable.
So for the last five weeks, I've moved from concentrating on a 2K race to training for a 5K race. Longer sessions, more meters, longer (hard intervals). Much more aerobic focused and less on all out speed. Tons of Anaerobic Threashold work. I've detested the plan I'm on currently but I'm seeing huge improvements in all times across the board. It's a 12 week plan and I'm only half way through it and have done 15 10K pieces without stopping so far. At least for endurance sports, it's a lot mental. Attacking what you hate the most mentally is important.
A sub 7 minute 2K is relatively easy for a young man who is a high school/college rower. Not so much for a 53 year old man that smoked for 10 years and was obese 15 more! You wouldn't think that doing longer work is important in a 2K, which is a relative sprint. But most sub 7 rowers can hold 200 Watts for an hour sustained. I can (probably) only hold around 193 Watts or so now for an hour, so only longer work will get me where I want to be on the short race goals.
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Good question. I was first stuck in my ways for a while training for asttheics solely. That quickly got boring and I began to get frustrated with not being able to bench 140kg so I switched my goal to building as much strength as possible with less of a regard for anything else. Eventually I got the lift and all my other lifts went up as you can imagine. It was fun. During that period I neglected posture, stretching, correcting imbalances, strengthen rotator cuffs and other minor muscles. I was just doing the big lifts every other day so size was there but I was rather inflexible. I got injured multiple times due to improper form bench pressing brought on my an imbalance in my back. Thrusted into rehab, I figured out what was wrong and a bunch of other weaknesses I neglected. Done rehabilitation now I'm correcting a few imbalances at the same time lifting for strength. Some things which I've added into my training as fundamental pillars are: self myofascial release, stretching & movement training. I now view my body as a single entity AND compartmentalised. If the body is to work efficiently, everything has to work how it was intended with no compromise.
My goal these days is to be as strong & mobile as possible while maintaining overall balance. I focus on my core & glutes quite a lot as it's these are the areas that hold everything in place.1 -
I'm loving your recent questions - branching my mind where I haven't questioned.
I used to focus on perceived weaknesses until a mentor asked why I did this. My goal was personal improvement, but she pointed out that this was not a very good strategy without having a greater strategic goal. I then started writing down end goals, along with smaller goals and highlighting the skillset required to achieve this.
Take multisport for example. I'm a very strong swimmer, decent runner, and absolute shite biker. I put my effort into what has the greatest gain. I'm already at the head of the pack on the swim, so chances of performance gain is minimal. Running stands at a decent pace, so I can put some additional effort into this. Biking is the obvious event I need to put effort into if I want to be competitive.
In this example there a good deal of mutual benefits. My endurance stands to increase as each event is endurance based. Obstacle course races are a completely different issue where you must balance steady state endurance with bursts of anabolic energy to complete obstacles, to my goals have shifted my focus more to resistance training.1
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