First day of keto. Feel sick
Replies
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@kimny72 my point was to say that eating keto isn't a new idea. Because of politics after WWII, keto was sidelined and low fat and CICO were pushed. Protein converts to a type of glucose just like carbs. Hence keto is not Atkins. It's fats vs sugars. Greene just knew that carbs were detrimental. I'm not saying everyone should do keto. What I am saying is the chronic woo-ers like anvilhead just choose to believe that their way is the ONLY way. They choose to ignore that CICO is only a hypothesis in science, not a theory or proven. But he can do what he wants, idc, but to disparage others ignorantly only confuses those that are trying to understand VLC eating. I've been doing it for 5 months and my triglycerides have dropped a little over 30%, plus quite a long laundry list of other improvements, including my autoimmune disorder. All I know is that every doc I've spoken to about it has said doing low carb is what they recommend. I don't have all the answers, but I do share what I do know for others that are also learning and working with their docs, etc.
First I am happy you found a WoE that help you. While your results will be reproduceable in a certain number of people it will definitely not be all.
If limiting carbs is all that really matters for weight loss then how do you stop losing weight before you lose too much? Eat carbs again? Is there any pattern to the weight loss or is it just random amounts each week? Many of the people that I know that always maintain a lean weight intuitively also eat carbs with no reservation. Why aren't they gaining weight?
I am curious about this too. It is implied by some that the body will self regulate at an ideal weight. If keto is truly about only CICO I would predict that one would keep losing weight. If there is some "magic" to keto weight loss would stabilize at an ideal weight with the same diet. So I guess I will experiment on myself and see what happens next.
There's no "magic" involved. If one is eating, say, 1500 calories per day, their body weight will stabilize when they reach a point where 1500 calories = their TDEE (BMR goes down as you lose weight, thus lowering TDEE unless activity is increased to compensate). If they continued eating 1500 calories and didn't alter their NEAT or EAT, they would not gain or lose any weight (aside from normal scale fluctuations) regardless of the macro composition of their diet or what time of the day they ate.
According to the Fung/Taubes fantasy, if one stayed on a keto diet they would indefinitely continue to lose weight regardless of calorie intake, body weight, activity levels, etc. because insulin. And gaining weight while on a ketogenic diet would not be possible. Neither of which is true.
I don't know who said it about keto leading to self regulating body weight. I am not saying it is true or has any fact or study to it. But don't you agree if I keep my diet on keto the same I should keep losing? If I don't what would that mean? This is an easy experiment I will do because I can and trust me if I need to stop losing weight more beer will be my first step. So I am biased in that regard. I must admit I threw the word "magic" in just to drive you crazy.0 -
@kimny72 my point was to say that eating keto isn't a new idea. Because of politics after WWII, keto was sidelined and low fat and CICO were pushed. Protein converts to a type of glucose just like carbs. Hence keto is not Atkins. It's fats vs sugars. Greene just knew that carbs were detrimental. I'm not saying everyone should do keto. What I am saying is the chronic woo-ers like anvilhead just choose to believe that their way is the ONLY way. They choose to ignore that CICO is only a hypothesis in science, not a theory or proven. But he can do what he wants, idc, but to disparage others ignorantly only confuses those that are trying to understand VLC eating. I've been doing it for 5 months and my triglycerides have dropped a little over 30%, plus quite a long laundry list of other improvements, including my autoimmune disorder. All I know is that every doc I've spoken to about it has said doing low carb is what they recommend. I don't have all the answers, but I do share what I do know for others that are also learning and working with their docs, etc.
First I am happy you found a WoE that help you. While your results will be reproduceable in a certain number of people it will definitely not be all.
If limiting carbs is all that really matters for weight loss then how do you stop losing weight before you lose too much? Eat carbs again? Is there any pattern to the weight loss or is it just random amounts each week? Many of the people that I know that always maintain a lean weight intuitively also eat carbs with no reservation. Why aren't they gaining weight?
I am curious about this too. It is implied by some that the body will self regulate at an ideal weight. If keto is truly about only CICO I would predict that one would keep losing weight. If there is some "magic" to keto weight loss would stabilize at an ideal weight with the same diet. So I guess I will experiment on myself and see what happens next.
There's no "magic" involved. If one is eating, say, 1500 calories per day, their body weight will stabilize when they reach a point where 1500 calories = their TDEE (BMR goes down as you lose weight, thus lowering TDEE unless activity is increased to compensate). If they continued eating 1500 calories and didn't alter their NEAT or EAT, they would not gain or lose any weight (aside from normal scale fluctuations) regardless of the macro composition of their diet or what time of the day they ate.
According to the Fung/Taubes fantasy, if one stayed on a keto diet they would indefinitely continue to lose weight regardless of calorie intake, body weight, activity levels, etc. because insulin. And gaining weight while on a ketogenic diet would not be possible. Neither of which is true.
I don't know who said it about keto leading to self regulating body weight. I am not saying it is true or has any fact or study to it. But don't you agree if I keep my diet on keto the same I should keep losing? If I don't what would that mean? This is an easy experiment I will do because I can and trust me if I need to stop losing weight more beer will be my first step. So I am biased in that regard. I must admit I threw the word "magic" in just to drive you crazy.
No you wouldn't keep losing. As anvilhead said, at some point your calorie deficit would no longer be a deficit. It would be maintenance.1 -
@kimny72 my point was to say that eating keto isn't a new idea. Because of politics after WWII, keto was sidelined and low fat and CICO were pushed. Protein converts to a type of glucose just like carbs. Hence keto is not Atkins. It's fats vs sugars. Greene just knew that carbs were detrimental. I'm not saying everyone should do keto. What I am saying is the chronic woo-ers like anvilhead just choose to believe that their way is the ONLY way. They choose to ignore that CICO is only a hypothesis in science, not a theory or proven. But he can do what he wants, idc, but to disparage others ignorantly only confuses those that are trying to understand VLC eating. I've been doing it for 5 months and my triglycerides have dropped a little over 30%, plus quite a long laundry list of other improvements, including my autoimmune disorder. All I know is that every doc I've spoken to about it has said doing low carb is what they recommend. I don't have all the answers, but I do share what I do know for others that are also learning and working with their docs, etc.
First I am happy you found a WoE that help you. While your results will be reproduceable in a certain number of people it will definitely not be all.
If limiting carbs is all that really matters for weight loss then how do you stop losing weight before you lose too much? Eat carbs again? Is there any pattern to the weight loss or is it just random amounts each week? Many of the people that I know that always maintain a lean weight intuitively also eat carbs with no reservation. Why aren't they gaining weight?
I am curious about this too. It is implied by some that the body will self regulate at an ideal weight. If keto is truly about only CICO I would predict that one would keep losing weight. If there is some "magic" to keto weight loss would stabilize at an ideal weight with the same diet. So I guess I will experiment on myself and see what happens next.
There's no "magic" involved. If one is eating, say, 1500 calories per day, their body weight will stabilize when they reach a point where 1500 calories = their TDEE (BMR goes down as you lose weight, thus lowering TDEE unless activity is increased to compensate). If they continued eating 1500 calories and didn't alter their NEAT or EAT, they would not gain or lose any weight (aside from normal scale fluctuations) regardless of the macro composition of their diet or what time of the day they ate.
According to the Fung/Taubes fantasy, if one stayed on a keto diet they would indefinitely continue to lose weight regardless of calorie intake, body weight, activity levels, etc. because insulin. And gaining weight while on a ketogenic diet would not be possible. Neither of which is true.
I don't know who said it about keto leading to self regulating body weight. I am not saying it is true or has any fact or study to it. But don't you agree if I keep my diet on keto the same I should keep losing? If I don't what would that mean? This is an easy experiment I will do because I can and trust me if I need to stop losing weight more beer will be my first step. So I am biased in that regard. I must admit I threw the word "magic" in just to drive you crazy.
If you kept your diet the same (in terms of calories), you would eventually stop losing if you were no longer in a deficit.2 -
100_PROOF_ wrote: »AlabasterVerve wrote: »@kimny72 my point was to say that eating keto isn't a new idea. Because of politics after WWII, keto was sidelined and low fat and CICO were pushed. Protein converts to a type of glucose just like carbs. Hence keto is not Atkins. It's fats vs sugars. Greene just knew that carbs were detrimental. I'm not saying everyone should do keto. What I am saying is the chronic woo-ers like anvilhead just choose to believe that their way is the ONLY way. They choose to ignore that CICO is only a hypothesis in science, not a theory or proven. But he can do what he wants, idc, but to disparage others ignorantly only confuses those that are trying to understand VLC eating. I've been doing it for 5 months and my triglycerides have dropped a little over 30%, plus quite a long laundry list of other improvements, including my autoimmune disorder. All I know is that every doc I've spoken to about it has said doing low carb is what they recommend. I don't have all the answers, but I do share what I do know for others that are also learning and working with their docs, etc.
A few things. The longest living and healthiest countries in the world are all very high carb, very low fat. There is a reason they are called the blue zones.
Second, glucenogenesis is the conversation of proteins and fatty acids into glucose. If you want to know more about Glucenogenesis, I would recommend http://www.tuitnutrition.com/2017/07/gluconeogenesis.html
Third, CICO is not a hypothesis. If you believe so, I would love to see anything to dispute the thousands of metabolic ward studies.
Lastly, keto is definitely a viable and beneficial options for some. For those who feel overly restricted or sick, it might be worth increase carbs (particularly fruits or starches) to help mitigate some of those issues.
No they're not.
Where are the populations of 100 yr olds that follow keto ?
I haven't researched Blue Zones yet but this 100 years thing made me reflect on a friend that is 102 and lived alone until this year. Very sharp and when asked when she moved into her home she said 62 years ago it was labor day and it rained. I also when singing happy birthday at her 100th thought "this could really screw up a retirement plan" For what it is worth she never exercised and ate a crappy processed, carb loaded and fatty diet. Go figure.
Genetics plays a huge role in longevity. My family frequently lives into their 100's and upper 90s. Short lift in my family is in their mid 80s.2 -
I am curious about this too. It is implied by some that the body will self regulate at an ideal weight. If keto is truly about only CICO I would predict that one would keep losing weight. If there is some "magic" to keto weight loss would stabilize at an ideal weight with the same diet. So I guess I will experiment on myself and see what happens next.
As you lose weight your energy requirement declines so if Keto is only about CICO it is more likely the weight loss would stop. If it has nothing to do with energy it is more likely the weight loss would continue unchecked.
ETA: When you think about this try and remember your science classes and that energy cannot be created or destroyed. There is some fuel that powers you and enables to your muscles to move and electrical impulses to travel throughout your body. If it doesn't come from food where does it come from?
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I am curious about this too. It is implied by some that the body will self regulate at an ideal weight. If keto is truly about only CICO I would predict that one would keep losing weight. If there is some "magic" to keto weight loss would stabilize at an ideal weight with the same diet. So I guess I will experiment on myself and see what happens next.
As you lose weight your energy requirement declines so if Keto is only about CICO it is more likely the weight loss would stop. If it has nothing to do with energy it is more likely the weight loss would continue unchecked.
ETA: When you think about this try and remember your science classes and that energy cannot be created or destroyed. There is some fuel that powers you and enables to your muscles to move and electrical impulses to travel throughout your body. If it doesn't come from food where does it come from?
I guess its all in how you say it. You say whatever my non calorie counting deficit is as long as it is a deficit I will eventually arrive at a break even point and stop losing because I will be maintaining. I say that if the magic of keto is true (I added this for AnvilHead) I arrive at my Ideal weight and something changes like appetite or insulin whatever. If keto and calorie deficit meet at the same weight it would be very coincidental. I do plan on seeing what plays out for fun. All I can do is keep my eating consistent and graphing my weight to find the stall point. I have plenty of time to play around with this.0 -
It would be simple and even quicker to do this experiment: Eat a strict keto diet at an accurately measured 1000 calorie surplus to your TDEE for 8 weeks. If calories don't matter and it's all insulin, as some keto advocates claim, you should gain no weight during that 8 weeks - in fact, you should continue to lose weight.6
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I am curious about this too. It is implied by some that the body will self regulate at an ideal weight. If keto is truly about only CICO I would predict that one would keep losing weight. If there is some "magic" to keto weight loss would stabilize at an ideal weight with the same diet. So I guess I will experiment on myself and see what happens next.
As you lose weight your energy requirement declines so if Keto is only about CICO it is more likely the weight loss would stop. If it has nothing to do with energy it is more likely the weight loss would continue unchecked.
ETA: When you think about this try and remember your science classes and that energy cannot be created or destroyed. There is some fuel that powers you and enables to your muscles to move and electrical impulses to travel throughout your body. If it doesn't come from food where does it come from?
I guess its all in how you say it. You say whatever my non calorie counting deficit is as long as it is a deficit I will eventually arrive at a break even point and stop losing because I will be maintaining. I say that if the magic of keto is true (I added this for AnvilHead) I arrive at my Ideal weight and something changes like appetite or insulin whatever. If keto and calorie deficit meet at the same weight it would be very coincidental. I do plan on seeing what plays out for fun. All I can do is keep my eating consistent and graphing my weight to find the stall point. I have plenty of time to play around with this.
Are you tracking your calorie intake?1 -
I guess its all in how you say it. You say whatever my non calorie counting deficit is as long as it is a deficit I will eventually arrive at a break even point and stop losing because I will be maintaining. I say that if the magic of keto is true (I added this for AnvilHead) I arrive at my Ideal weight and something changes like appetite or insulin whatever. If keto and calorie deficit meet at the same weight it would be very coincidental. I do plan on seeing what plays out for fun. All I can do is keep my eating consistent and graphing my weight to find the stall point. I have plenty of time to play around with this.
Consider this. I track my deficit and my weight loss matches within a reasonable margin of error. It is impossible to track by the week but by the month if, for example, I have a 28,000 calorie deficit (7k per week) at 3500 calories per pound I will show approximately an 8lb loss.
My weight loss has matched my deficit now for 7 months and has not been hampered by carbs even when I was drinking alcohol. In the last 4 months I have eaten more controlled carbs that average 120 during the week and 200 on the weekend. My weight loss has not accelerated at all now that I am technically low carb although high by Keto standards.1 -
WinoGelato wrote: »I am curious about this too. It is implied by some that the body will self regulate at an ideal weight. If keto is truly about only CICO I would predict that one would keep losing weight. If there is some "magic" to keto weight loss would stabilize at an ideal weight with the same diet. So I guess I will experiment on myself and see what happens next.
As you lose weight your energy requirement declines so if Keto is only about CICO it is more likely the weight loss would stop. If it has nothing to do with energy it is more likely the weight loss would continue unchecked.
ETA: When you think about this try and remember your science classes and that energy cannot be created or destroyed. There is some fuel that powers you and enables to your muscles to move and electrical impulses to travel throughout your body. If it doesn't come from food where does it come from?
I guess its all in how you say it. You say whatever my non calorie counting deficit is as long as it is a deficit I will eventually arrive at a break even point and stop losing because I will be maintaining. I say that if the magic of keto is true (I added this for AnvilHead) I arrive at my Ideal weight and something changes like appetite or insulin whatever. If keto and calorie deficit meet at the same weight it would be very coincidental. I do plan on seeing what plays out for fun. All I can do is keep my eating consistent and graphing my weight to find the stall point. I have plenty of time to play around with this.
Are you tracking your calorie intake?
No I haven't track in a long time. I decided to try keto without logging to see what happens. I lost 16 pounds and feel very full without snacking. I think it would be a lot of trouble to log calories on a LCHF diet. With all the fats and oils I don't think I could get very accurate. I cook bacon and pour most of the grease out and add some butter. I just don't feel the need to log unless I start having some weight gain issues.0 -
WinoGelato wrote: »I am curious about this too. It is implied by some that the body will self regulate at an ideal weight. If keto is truly about only CICO I would predict that one would keep losing weight. If there is some "magic" to keto weight loss would stabilize at an ideal weight with the same diet. So I guess I will experiment on myself and see what happens next.
As you lose weight your energy requirement declines so if Keto is only about CICO it is more likely the weight loss would stop. If it has nothing to do with energy it is more likely the weight loss would continue unchecked.
ETA: When you think about this try and remember your science classes and that energy cannot be created or destroyed. There is some fuel that powers you and enables to your muscles to move and electrical impulses to travel throughout your body. If it doesn't come from food where does it come from?
I guess its all in how you say it. You say whatever my non calorie counting deficit is as long as it is a deficit I will eventually arrive at a break even point and stop losing because I will be maintaining. I say that if the magic of keto is true (I added this for AnvilHead) I arrive at my Ideal weight and something changes like appetite or insulin whatever. If keto and calorie deficit meet at the same weight it would be very coincidental. I do plan on seeing what plays out for fun. All I can do is keep my eating consistent and graphing my weight to find the stall point. I have plenty of time to play around with this.
Are you tracking your calorie intake?
No I haven't track in a long time. I decided to try keto without logging to see what happens. I lost 16 pounds and feel very full without snacking. I think it would be a lot of trouble to log calories on a LCHF diet. With all the fats and oils I don't think I could get very accurate. I cook bacon and pour most of the grease out and add some butter. I just don't feel the need to log unless I start having some weight gain issues.
If you don't know how many calories you're eating, I'm not sure what you're planning on trying to establish with your N=1 "experiment."
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No I haven't track in a long time. I decided to try keto without logging to see what happens. I lost 16 pounds and feel very full without snacking. I think it would be a lot of trouble to log calories on a LCHF diet. With all the fats and oils I don't think I could get very accurate. I cook bacon and pour most of the grease out and add some butter. I just don't feel the need to log unless I start having some weight gain issues.
Makes sense not to track if it is not necessary. To @janejellyroll's point you can't really deduce what is really happening without a calorie count.
I am glad this is working for you. High fat makes me physically ill. If I am not careful I will get severe cramps and some very unpleasant trips to the restroom. There may be a way to transition but I am not interested in putting myself through that when what I am doing is so very successful by itself.
2 -
100_PROOF_ wrote: »AlabasterVerve wrote: »@kimny72 my point was to say that eating keto isn't a new idea. Because of politics after WWII, keto was sidelined and low fat and CICO were pushed. Protein converts to a type of glucose just like carbs. Hence keto is not Atkins. It's fats vs sugars. Greene just knew that carbs were detrimental. I'm not saying everyone should do keto. What I am saying is the chronic woo-ers like anvilhead just choose to believe that their way is the ONLY way. They choose to ignore that CICO is only a hypothesis in science, not a theory or proven. But he can do what he wants, idc, but to disparage others ignorantly only confuses those that are trying to understand VLC eating. I've been doing it for 5 months and my triglycerides have dropped a little over 30%, plus quite a long laundry list of other improvements, including my autoimmune disorder. All I know is that every doc I've spoken to about it has said doing low carb is what they recommend. I don't have all the answers, but I do share what I do know for others that are also learning and working with their docs, etc.
A few things. The longest living and healthiest countries in the world are all very high carb, very low fat. There is a reason they are called the blue zones.
Second, glucenogenesis is the conversation of proteins and fatty acids into glucose. If you want to know more about Glucenogenesis, I would recommend http://www.tuitnutrition.com/2017/07/gluconeogenesis.html
Third, CICO is not a hypothesis. If you believe so, I would love to see anything to dispute the thousands of metabolic ward studies.
Lastly, keto is definitely a viable and beneficial options for some. For those who feel overly restricted or sick, it might be worth increase carbs (particularly fruits or starches) to help mitigate some of those issues.
No they're not.
Where are the populations of 100 yr olds that follow keto ?
I haven't researched Blue Zones yet but this 100 years thing made me reflect on a friend that is 102 and lived alone until this year. Very sharp and when asked when she moved into her home she said 62 years ago it was labor day and it rained. I also when singing happy birthday at her 100th thought "this could really screw up a retirement plan" For what it is worth she never exercised and ate a crappy processed, carb loaded and fatty diet. Go figure.
I recently re-read Teicholz' Big Fat Surprise. In it, old papers on the health of the indigenous people of the plains around 1900 was discussed. Hrdlicka said that the number of those living over 100 was quite high - upwards of 250 per million compared to 3-6 per million in the white population. It makes me wonder what those low carb or keto people could have hit with better medicine.
Hrdlicka also said that chronic disease was rare to nonexistent, and those over 90 were neither demented or helpless.
I don't know the centenarian rate per million in the blue zones...
Really good book. I recommend it.3 -
janejellyroll wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »I am curious about this too. It is implied by some that the body will self regulate at an ideal weight. If keto is truly about only CICO I would predict that one would keep losing weight. If there is some "magic" to keto weight loss would stabilize at an ideal weight with the same diet. So I guess I will experiment on myself and see what happens next.
As you lose weight your energy requirement declines so if Keto is only about CICO it is more likely the weight loss would stop. If it has nothing to do with energy it is more likely the weight loss would continue unchecked.
ETA: When you think about this try and remember your science classes and that energy cannot be created or destroyed. There is some fuel that powers you and enables to your muscles to move and electrical impulses to travel throughout your body. If it doesn't come from food where does it come from?
I guess its all in how you say it. You say whatever my non calorie counting deficit is as long as it is a deficit I will eventually arrive at a break even point and stop losing because I will be maintaining. I say that if the magic of keto is true (I added this for AnvilHead) I arrive at my Ideal weight and something changes like appetite or insulin whatever. If keto and calorie deficit meet at the same weight it would be very coincidental. I do plan on seeing what plays out for fun. All I can do is keep my eating consistent and graphing my weight to find the stall point. I have plenty of time to play around with this.
Are you tracking your calorie intake?
No I haven't track in a long time. I decided to try keto without logging to see what happens. I lost 16 pounds and feel very full without snacking. I think it would be a lot of trouble to log calories on a LCHF diet. With all the fats and oils I don't think I could get very accurate. I cook bacon and pour most of the grease out and add some butter. I just don't feel the need to log unless I start having some weight gain issues.
If you don't know how many calories you're eating, I'm not sure what you're planning on trying to establish with your N=1 "experiment."
I am more about just having fun with this. So I guess I am informally playing around to see how things effect and work for me. The scale is still moving and I am not hungry. I don't think I will ever publish my round data numbers other than to announce to @AnvilHead that keto is magic.
0
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