Eating ~2,350 calories a day, BMI of only 20, and still losing 2lb/week (Is this healthy?)
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batorkin
Posts: 281 Member
I have lost 98 pounds over the last year. I have a BMI of only 20.0 now but my bodyfat is still 16-17% (male) due to low muscle mass. Many bodybuilders say you want to get down to lower bodyfat % before bulking (9%-12%), and I plan on bulking this winter after it gets cold outside.
Right now I still have a small gut and I want to get rid of that before winter bulk. In the last month I have been biking a lot. I am burning between 850-1200 calories a day on average, but there are a few days I push harder and burn over 2,000. This is all calculated with Strava, and my bike trips vary between 40-80 miles a day (about 3-6 hours).
I have MFP set to lose 1 pound a week, but I keep ending up with 500-1000 calories to spare so I am losing closer to 2 pounds a week (I eat back about half my exercise calories). I am getting ~180g of protein a day to help prevent muscle loss and log/measure/scan every single thing that goes into mouth as usual. Every day I go a bit over in essential vitamins, and I am getting enough carbs/fat.
Is it healthy to push this hard and lose weight like this when you are already pretty small? Am I suppose to eat "dirtier" or just stuff my face when I am already very full? I'm assuming it's fine because I have what seems like infinite energy every morning, plus 40-80 miles of biking every day without fatigue the next morning has to mean something...
Anything I should be concerned about?
Right now I still have a small gut and I want to get rid of that before winter bulk. In the last month I have been biking a lot. I am burning between 850-1200 calories a day on average, but there are a few days I push harder and burn over 2,000. This is all calculated with Strava, and my bike trips vary between 40-80 miles a day (about 3-6 hours).
I have MFP set to lose 1 pound a week, but I keep ending up with 500-1000 calories to spare so I am losing closer to 2 pounds a week (I eat back about half my exercise calories). I am getting ~180g of protein a day to help prevent muscle loss and log/measure/scan every single thing that goes into mouth as usual. Every day I go a bit over in essential vitamins, and I am getting enough carbs/fat.
Is it healthy to push this hard and lose weight like this when you are already pretty small? Am I suppose to eat "dirtier" or just stuff my face when I am already very full? I'm assuming it's fine because I have what seems like infinite energy every morning, plus 40-80 miles of biking every day without fatigue the next morning has to mean something...
Anything I should be concerned about?
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Replies
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If you are struggling to eat back your exercise calories then exercise less. You want to maintain muscle mass but are losing too quickly which will result in greater muscle loss, especially ss it appears you are doing no resistance training.6
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You don't have to eat 'dirty' to increase your cals - nuts, nut butters, oils, avocado, cheese, and many more calorie dense, small volume, nutritious options available.6
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Lillymoo01 wrote: »If you are struggling to eat back your exercise calories then exercise less.
I am training for a 160 mile marathon and have a goal of 800 miles this month. We only have about 1 good month left of biking here, then it's ~6 months of cold weather.
Muscle mass isn't something i'm overly concerned about, I lift about once a week currently but my main goal is still fat loss. I'll bulk in the winter when it's too cold to be outside.Nony_Mouse wrote: »You don't have to eat 'dirty' to increase your cals - nuts, nut butters, oils, avocado, cheese, and many more calorie dense, small volume, nutritious options available.
Thanks, I'll try adding some calorie dense small snacks to my meals.
I'm really not sure how fast I should reasonably lose though. Seems most people say don't lose over .5 pounds a week when you only have ~10 pounds to lose but I struggle to understand that. It seems the biggest defense is that it's hard to lose faster and still get the nutrition you need when you are already a "healthy" weight.
But If I am losing 2 pounds/week and still eating 2350 calories because of lots of exercise, is there actually harm being done? Is the human body not capable of getting rid of 2 pounds of fat a week when you only have 10 more to loose? Muscle loss really should be minimal if I am lifting and getting 180g of protein a day. I just don't want to slow down the process if I don't need too.
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When the weather changes and you aren’t biking to the same level then your tdee calorie needs will change. In the meantime you need to eat more so you could add some fats as they’re calorie dense at 9 calories per gram. Maybe peanut butter, if you drink milk switch to full fat, drizzle some olive oil on salads. If your struggling to eat enough food and have a blender make some calorie dense smoothies.
No idea on your height but you start by saying you are 16/17% body fat despite loosing 98lbs and have a bmi of 20. That is because of a lack of lifting, protein in itself isn’t enough to keep muscle mass, you need to retain your strength as much as you can.
I realise your goal is not to lift weights but if you had done more lifting sessions on the way down you would likely have a much lower body fat percent.
If you lose weight without keeping muscle mass you generally lose fat and muscle. You can also end up looking a bit like a smaller version than where you started.
If you lose weight while maintaining as much muscle mass as possible then you lower body fat and end up having very defined muscles and a lower body fat percentage.
I’m sure you don’t look the same with a 98lb weight loss but having a lower body fat at the same weight will help you in your chosen sport. Why not do a recomp when the weather changes so lift more and eat at maintenance or a slow bulk at 250 or so over your tdee.
Congrats on the weight loss and good luck on the marathon cycle 🚲3 -
When the weather changes and you aren’t biking to the same level then your tdee calorie needs will change. In the meantime you need to eat more so you could add some fats as they’re calorie dense at 9 calories per gram. Maybe peanut butter, if you drink milk switch to full fat, drizzle some olive oil on salads. If your struggling to eat enough food and have a blender make some calorie dense smoothies.
No idea on your height but you start by saying you are 16/17% body fat despite loosing 98lbs and have a bmi of 20. That is because of a lack of lifting, protein in itself isn’t enough to keep muscle mass, you need to retain your strength as much as you can.
I realise your goal is not to lift weights but if you had done more lifting sessions on the way down you would likely have a much lower body fat percent.
If you lose weight without keeping muscle mass you generally lose fat and muscle. You can also end up looking a bit like a smaller version than where you started.
If you lose weight while maintaining as much muscle mass as possible then you lower body fat and end up having very defined muscles and a lower body fat percentage.
I’m sure you don’t look the same with a 98lb weight loss but having a lower body fat at the same weight will help you in your chosen sport. Why not do a recomp when the weather changes so lift more and eat at maintenance or a slow bulk at 250 or so over your tdee.
Congrats on the weight loss and good luck on the marathon cycle 🚲
I will be doing a recomp/bulk as the weather changes, but right now I am trying to get rid of the small gut as much as possible in the next month or so.
I've done a bunch of searching and the results are mixed. Some people claim losing 2 pounds/week all the way to goal is fine for athletes and people doing lots of exercise because they can still eat enough food to meet their body's nutritional needs while in a 1000 calorie/day deficiency. That makes a lot of sense to me.
Other people say you should never lose more than .5 to 1 pounds/week for the last 5-10 pounds, but I am pretty sure that only applies to people doing a mostly diet for fat loss with moderate to no exercise. If I didn't exercise I could only eat 1,660 calories a day for 1 pound/week loss, which would be very hard for me and I'd probably switch to 0.5/week,2 -
It's not just about nutrition. There's also metabolic adaptation to consider. The leaner you get, the harder your body fights back against further fat loss, and the more things like leptin, thyroid, and cortisol get out of whack. Have you taken any diet breaks? If not, I would seriously consider it, along with adding in occasional 2-3 day high carb refeeds.
Also, lifting 'about once a week' isn't really enough to retain the LBM you currently have, even with high protein. I'd increase it to at least twice a week.14 -
You won’t be able to spot reduce the small gut. It will go when you get the body fat closer to 10%. Generally for men ab outlines at 15% closer to 10-12 for full abs and lower say 8% for the totally chiselled look.
You will be preserving muscle as your consuming 180g protein per day but just not as effectively if you were lifting weights more frequently.
As for speed of loss I would try slow it down, it’s not the scale number that matters for shredding that lower gut it’s purely body fat percentage.
You would need to work out what body fat percent you were when you started.
For instance years ago I weighed about 200lbs. I got down to 150 with lifting, excessive running on a treadmill and generally bad nutrition. Yes I got leaner and smaller but I didn’t reach my goal which was sub 10% body fat. The reason was I was crucifying muscle as well as fat. Yes you always lose fat and muscle but you want it to be mainly fat rather than 50/50 or worse. You with a bmi of 20 will probably be ripping through muscle
due to your high cardio levels.
This time I started at nearly the same weight, my nutrition is in check, I lift weights as that’s what I enjoy and still do cardio just not for shifting the weekend binge water weight so not in excess. The result is I’m 165lbs but with 11-13% body fat. My bmi is 24.
I think you will see big changes over the winter period. You could also be carrying some water weight as the cycling mixed with a high prolonged deficit can be quite traumatic for the body especially if you haven’t been having refeeds.
I would consider upping calories slightly to slow down the rate of loss from 0.5-1lb week. A couple of spoons of pb will likely be enough or eat some treat that you have been avoiding.1 -
"Many bodybuilders say you want to get down to lower bodyfat % before bulking (9%-12%)"
And what exactly is the relevance of what bodybuilders do to you personally?
Random points:- A large deficit certainly does put you at risk of muscle loss.
- It will also compromise your cycling performance. and recovery.
- Muscle building isn't as quick or easy as you seem to believe - far more sensible to ensure you preserve what you have rather than risk losing and then have to slowly rebuild.
- More strength training may well help your cycling - not just legs but a strong core is essential for long distances ("you can't fire a canon from a canoe").
- Training isn't all about volume and distance. You need to think about quality of training too plus adequate recovery.
- If you aren't fuelling your rides properly then those rides are doing you less benefit than they should do. The longer the distance the more critical proper fuelling becomes.
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You never listened when people urged you to slow down during weight loss.
You're not going to listen now either.
You're BMI 20 and STILL trying to lose fast?
You're going to *intentionally* bulk over a cold winter during which time you won't be able to exercise as much?
Your history as a recently obese person who has effected a fast weight loss and has yet to maintain a single month makes you an incredibly TERRIBLE candidate to transition to a deliberate bulk over an inactive winter.
When the appetite suppression effects of your current high deficits disappear on you your ability to control your eating is going to be severely tested.
And there exists currently no evidence that you have the patience to ride a small surplus to faster muscle growth and minimal fat gain.
What exists, instead, is ample evidence that you will see a 1lb a week gain (4lbs a month, 24lbs in 6 months) and say to yourself and believe: "Oh I can easily lose that in a couple of months when the weather is good and I can exercise again."
Which makes you a TERRIBLE candidate to transition to a deliberate bulk.
As a formerly obese person you would have been better served by building up your maintenance skill set.26 -
There has been some science suggesting that there's a limited amount of fat we can metabolize per day per pound of fat remaining on our bodies, and that weight loss beyond that rate will come from lean tissue. It's a bit theoretical, admittedly, and no, I don't have a cite. I've seen numbers in the 20-something to 30-something range as the estimated calories per pound of fat (not bodyweight) per day as the theoretical limit. Most of the loss-rate rules of thumb would bring most people in conservatively under this rate, which seems sensible to me.
I agree with others above that you're undervaluing muscle preservation (so slow and difficult to rebuild!), undervaluing the contribution muscle can make to your cycling, and probably being too sanguine about the psychology of a post-loss off-season bulk as well as what it can achieve physically.
As someone who personally dislikes weight training, I normally do more of it in off-season, and little to none in-season. (This has been a long term pattern. I'd been athletically active for a dozen years while obese.) Experientially, I know it to be a poor plan and pattern. During weight loss, I included some strength training even while in season, because there are limits to even my dysfunctional and silly behavior.5 -
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You're doing more damage than anything to your body right now... you're burning muscle as much as fat, is it what you want? Start working on strength now, and cut the biking, so you can keep a reasonable deficit.3
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You never listened when people urged you to slow down during weight loss.
You're not going to listen now either.
What are you talking about..? I had next to no muscle mass going into my weight loss and had a few checkups during my weight loss. I was Obese, so 3 pounds/week was perfectly fine. I can lift more now than I could when I weighed 260 and I couldn't bike for more than a few miles. You are also doing an awful lot of assuming, I never plan on targeting more than .5 pounds gained/week during my bulk, so it'll mostly be recomping. Again, my goal here is to be lean with some definition.
I am happy with my results so far, if you are going to criticize me then please stop posting in my threads. Thanks.You're doing more damage than anything to your body right now... you're burning muscle as much as fat, is it what you want? Start working on strength now, and cut the biking, so you can keep a reasonable deficit.
I am focusing on cycling which means I want to be lean. I have some cycling friends that are 6'0 - 6'1" and 132-140 pounds. That's way tinier than I ever aim to be! There are different builds for different people doing different types of sports/exercises.
Again, I am not cutting any biking right now. I am training for a cycling marathon this fall. I will start adding some calorie dense foods to my diet and try to get closer to 1 pound/week. Going to be visiting my doctor for a checkup and get his opinion as well.
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You never listened when people urged you to slow down during weight loss.
You're not going to listen now either.
lol? What?
I had no muscle mass going into my weight loss and my weight loss was monitored by my doctor. I can lift more now than I could when I weighed 260. No idea what your talking about.
Doesn't mean you have more muscle mass (esp. not at the rate you have been losing weight) - all it means is that you have trained your existing muscles/nervous system to deal with the weight better.
Personal anecdote - I got back into lifting 2 years ago at the same time that I started losing weight, and I can lift easily double (depending on the lift as much as triple) what I could when I started and haven't add an inch of size to any of my major muscles.6 -
You never listened when people urged you to slow down during weight loss.
You're not going to listen now either.
What are you talking about..? I had next to no muscle mass going into my weight loss and has a few checkups during my weightloss. I was Obese, so 3 pounds/week was perfectly fine. I can lift more now than I could when I weighed 260 and I couldn't bike for more than a few miles. I am happy with my results so far, if you are going to criticize me then please stop posting in my threads. Thanks.
You definitely had muscle mass. If you hadn't you would have been bedridden, literally unable to carry your own weight.
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if they are male they are underweight. if they are female anything under 140 is considered underweight for the one who is 6'1. being lean and being underweight are 2 different beast. even a lb a week is too low for having less than 10lbs to lose. if you have a gut it probably is due to being skinny fat from losing lean mass. heck Im leaner at a higher weight because I lifted weights all the while I had been losing. I look better now at a higher weight than I did at a lower weight.sure it took time to lose the fat off my stomach and I still have a little 5 years later but nothing too bad.You never listened when people urged you to slow down during weight loss.
You're not going to listen now either.
What are you talking about..? I had next to no muscle mass going into my weight loss and had a few checkups during my weight loss. I was Obese, so 3 pounds/week was perfectly fine. I can lift more now than I could when I weighed 260 and I couldn't bike for more than a few miles. You are also doing an awful lot of assuming, I never plan on targeting more than .5 pounds gained/week during my bulk, so it'll mostly be recomping. Again, my goal here is to be lean with some definition.
I am happy with my results so far, if you are going to criticize me then please stop posting in my threads. Thanks.You're doing more damage than anything to your body right now... you're burning muscle as much as fat, is it what you want? Start working on strength now, and cut the biking, so you can keep a reasonable deficit.
I am focusing on cycling which means I want to be lean. I have some cycling friends that are 6'0 - 6'1" and 132-140 pounds. That's way tinier than I ever aim to be but they are more competitive. There are different builds for different people doing different types of sports/exercises.
Again, I am not cutting any biking right now. I am training for a cycling marathon this fall. I will start adding some calorie dense foods to my diet and try to get closer to 1 pound/week. Going to be visiting my doctor for a checkup and get his opinion as well.4 -
I know I lost muscle, but I still can lift more than I could starting out and I am happy with that. I'll state this again: I am not trying to have a lot of muscle. I want to be lean.
Many cyclist are considered underweight on BMI, and are much smaller than I currently am. Cycling doesn't require much muscle and less weight is key to speed. Not everyone understands what build type I am going for, so I am just going to take the solid advice of not losing more than 1 pound/week by adding things like peanut butter and nuts, then switch to .5 pounds/gain over the winter and start recomping in the gym.
Thanks to the people who did offer me advice.CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »
if they are male they are underweight. if they are female anything under 140 is considered underweight for the one who is 6'1. being lean and being underweight are 2 different beast. even a lb a week is too low for having less than 10lbs to lose. if you have a gut it probably is due to being skinny fat from losing lean mass. heck Im leaner at a higher weight because I lifted weights all the while I had been losing. I look better now at a higher weight than I did at a lower weight.sure it took time to lose the fat off my stomach and I still have a little 5 years later but nothing too bad.You never listened when people urged you to slow down during weight loss.
You're not going to listen now either.
What are you talking about..? I had next to no muscle mass going into my weight loss and had a few checkups during my weight loss. I was Obese, so 3 pounds/week was perfectly fine. I can lift more now than I could when I weighed 260 and I couldn't bike for more than a few miles. You are also doing an awful lot of assuming, I never plan on targeting more than .5 pounds gained/week during my bulk, so it'll mostly be recomping. Again, my goal here is to be lean with some definition.
I am happy with my results so far, if you are going to criticize me then please stop posting in my threads. Thanks.You're doing more damage than anything to your body right now... you're burning muscle as much as fat, is it what you want? Start working on strength now, and cut the biking, so you can keep a reasonable deficit.
I am focusing on cycling which means I want to be lean. I have some cycling friends that are 6'0 - 6'1" and 132-140 pounds. That's way tinier than I ever aim to be but they are more competitive. There are different builds for different people doing different types of sports/exercises.
Again, I am not cutting any biking right now. I am training for a cycling marathon this fall. I will start adding some calorie dense foods to my diet and try to get closer to 1 pound/week. Going to be visiting my doctor for a checkup and get his opinion as well.
They are male and very active/healthy. I don't really trust BMI, as most bodybuilders are considered overweight and most cyclists are considered underweight. If an "underweight" man is capable of doing 150 miles every single day on his bike, I really don't think he's unhealthy. His goals are just different than the average.
My waistline right now is 32" and I am 6'1". Last checkup, my doctor said I should safely be able to get it down to about 30". I'd still need to lose 16 pounds to be considered "underweight", so he wasn't concerned about me losing another 10 pounds.
I do agree that 2 pounds/week seems fast at this stage, so I will play it safe and make the adjustments to ensure 1 pound/week max.7 -
I know I lost muscle, but I still can lift more than I could starting out and I am happy with that. I'll state this again: I am not trying to have a lot of muscle. I want to be lean.
Many cyclist are considered underweight on BMI, and are much smaller than I currently am. Cycling doesn't require much muscle and less weight is key to speed. Not everyone understands what build type I am going for, so I am just going to take the solid advice of not losing more than 1 pound/week by adding things like peanut butter and nuts, then switch to .5 pounds/gain over the winter and start recomping in the gym.
Thanks to the people who did offer me advice.
You won't be lean; you'll be skinny-fat. Muscle is what makes you lean.
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Do you compete at a professional level that requires such levels of leanness? (You say what your level of training is, but anyone can *train* that much without actually doing anything with it. I used to date a guy who spent all of his spare energy training at near-professional levels, but was a horrid competitor, and didn't get results that nearly reflected what he put into it.)
If you do, you should meet with a sports medicine dietitian and actually get levels of advice that reflect the elite status you want to achieve.
If you don't, you should rethink your goals. Fueling and body mass is only part of the formula, and there's no sense in half assing it. If you want an excuse to be undermuscled and underweight, fine -- but don't pretend that it's because of your training if you're not actually working at that level.6 -
I know I lost muscle, but I still can lift more than I could starting out and I am happy with that. I'll state this again: I am not trying to have a lot of muscle. I want to be lean.
Many cyclist are considered underweight on BMI, and are much smaller than I currently am. Cycling doesn't require much muscle and less weight is key to speed. Not everyone understands what build type I am going for, so I am just going to take the solid advice of not losing more than 1 pound/week by adding things like peanut butter and nuts, then switch to .5 pounds/gain over the winter and start recomping in the gym.
Thanks to the people who did offer me advice.
I think you might have a misunderstanding of what muscular is and what requires muscle. While most competitive cyclists are quite lean, they are also often quite muscular - those two things are not mutually exclusive. In fact, most people who would be described as "lean" ARE muscular. Lean typically means low body fat, not scrawny or skinny.
You asked in your OP if your plan was healthy and if there was anything you should be concerned about. All the posts here have been answering those questions, though they are obviously not telling you what you want to hear. They are all coming from genuine concern and experience. What you are doing and plan to do is still not a great idea, and what everyone is trying to tell you is that your plan will not get you the build type you're going for, but at least slowing it down a little is an improvement.
Here is a thread with ideas for calorie dense foods, maybe you will find some other ideas for foods you will be able to fit in your appetite and help reach your calorie goal:
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10142490/a-list-of-calorie-dense-foods/p18
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