[Beginner] Building muscle while in a deficit.

WarningTheHermit

This was posted right at a year ago by someone else, and I've learned that when i bump old posts my question doesn't get answered people only read the first post.

So my question is, has anyone actually lost weight in a deficit, while also building muscle? If so, what did you find was important to make it work.





http://sci-fit.net/2017/bulking-deficit-gaining/

Grambo54

Yes you can. At least maintain what you lift while you lose. Thats your goal. If you cant maintain, try your best to get there. And dont over train. Its hard to advise with so little info.

sijomial

I've done it several times and as the chart indicates where you are starting from makes a big difference. Here's some examples....

1#
Like most teenage boys (under-trained and primed for growth) it's ridiculously easy and just requires an amount of dedication to training (I certainly didn't train smart!). "Getting in shape" was just losing weight and gaining muscle - totally normal and expected. Speed of muscle growth was really rapid - I seemed to have better genetics for growth compared to my peer group but maybe I just tried harder?

2#
Coming back from a major injury (5" loss of quad circumference) at age 31 and dieting at the same time didn't stop me re-adding a lot of that lost muscle even though my ability to train that leg was severely compromised. Just learning to walk again and using stairs worked at first and resulted in measurable growth while losing some of the blubber. To get all the lost muscle back took an escalating intensity of exercise (that phrase progressive overload but coming from an extraordinary low start point).

3#
In my early 50's and below my usual (lifetime) strength/fitness levels losing weight at a sensible rate (1lb/week) didn't prevent me re-adding some muscle but that effect tailed right off over 6 months as I got closer to normal for me. At the end of that period my guess would be that I wasn't really adding much if any muscle.
To lose last few pounds I came down to 1lb/month rate of weight loss and saw measurable muscle growth in approximate ratio of losing 2lbs of fat and gaining 1lb of LBM. That did involve hard and consistent training of course but I am injury limited on weights for lower body exercises.

4#
At age 58 I've just finished a really intense 2 month training block for a big cycle event (which was cancelled at the last moment!). Scan results show 3lb loss of fat and 1lb muscle gain. My favourite jeans agree as they are tight on my quads and loose around my waist. But that was a training volume that most people don't have the time for. On the other hand I did no lower body weights at all - my leg growth came from doing lots of climbing on the bike (a 20% incline is one hell of a quad workout!).


Summary....
Small calorie deficit, adequate protein, hard training with overload are the basics. Your current and past training levels, have a very large impact. Novel training stimulus helps, being male helps, being young helps, good genetics help, not being very lean helps.

WarningTheHermit

sijomial wrote: »

I've done it several times and as the chart indicates where you are starting from makes a big difference. Here's some examples....

1#
Like most teenage boys (under-trained and primed for growth) it's ridiculously easy and just requires an amount of dedication to training (I certainly didn't train smart!). "Getting in shape" was just losing weight and gaining muscle - totally normal and expected. Speed of muscle growth was really rapid - I seemed to have better genetics for growth compared to my peer group but maybe I just tried harder?

2#
Coming back from a major injury (5" loss of quad circumference) at age 31 and dieting at the same time didn't stop me re-adding a lot of that lost muscle even though my ability to train that leg was severely compromised. Just learning to walk again and using stairs worked at first and resulted in measurable growth while losing some of the blubber. To get all the lost muscle back took an escalating intensity of exercise (that phrase progressive overload but coming from an extraordinary low start point).

3#
In my early 50's and below my usual (lifetime) strength/fitness levels losing weight at a sensible rate (1lb/week) didn't prevent me re-adding some muscle but that effect tailed right off over 6 months as I got closer to normal for me. At the end of that period my guess would be that I wasn't really adding much if any muscle.
To lose last few pounds I came down to 1lb/month rate of weight loss and saw measurable muscle growth in approximate ratio of losing 2lbs of fat and gaining 1lb of LBM. That did involve hard and consistent training of course but I am injury limited on weights for lower body exercises.

4#
At age 58 I've just finished a really intense 2 month training block for a big cycle event (which was cancelled at the last moment!). Scan results show 3lb loss of fat and 1lb muscle gain. My favourite jeans agree as they are tight on my quads and loose around my waist. But that was a training volume that most people don't have the time for. On the other hand I did no lower body weights at all - my leg growth came from doing lots of climbing on the bike (a 20% incline is one hell of a quad workout!).


Summary....
Small calorie deficit, adequate protein, hard training with overload are the basics. Your current and past training levels, have a very large impact. Novel training stimulus helps, being male helps, being young helps, good genetics help, not being very lean helps.

Here's one more question, one of the things several people have seem to say is make sure you eat X amount of protein for your body weight. Should this amount of protein be base don my current weight, or my goal weight while also trying to build muscle? i fall into the untrained category, and am still very overweight despite having lost some recently.

sijomial

WarningTheHermit wrote: »

Here's one more question, one of the things several people have seem to say is make sure you eat X amount of protein for your body weight. Should this amount of protein be base don my current weight, or my goal weight while also trying to build muscle? i fall into the untrained category, and am still very overweight despite having lost some recently.

There's as many opinions on protein as there are grams in your daily goal.

My choice is to base it on estimated lean body mass as your body fat doesn't need protein.
I go for 1g of protein per lb of a rough estimate of LBM. I don 't actually track food at all, I just keep it in mind over the course of a day, precision isn't critical. If you are very overweight then basing it on current weight wouldn't be necessary.

It's very hard to eat too much though and there's a wide range of "almost optimal".
If it's not crowding out other parts of your diet and you enjoy protein rich foods then a high intake isn't a problem.
Don't worry about timing (that part of optimal is vastly overstated in importance) - concentrate on a decent daily amount.

What is important is the quality of your training, that's where it all starts

plythacur

I agree with the the summary above, but thought I would add in my own anecdote from muscle building at a calorie deficit. I found that if I wasn’t super mindful of getting enough protein and fats in my diet, I would have crazy levels of tendon soreness, and even my regular old DOMS would last much longer than usual. Additionally, it is really easy to backslide if you take just a week or two off of training (your body doesn’t want to build what it doesn’t need at a deficit), so you have to be extremely consistent in your programming. Just be prepared for your gains to be slow, and expect the occasional plateau.

Stockholm_Andy

WarningTheHermit wrote: »

So my question is, has anyone actually lost weight in a deficit, while also building muscle? If so, what did you find was important to make it work. [http://sci-fit.net/2017/bulking-deficit-gaining/

Two excellent posts from @sijomial on this thread IMHO.

I'd echo that assuming you are currently untrained or relatively so then yes you can.

What's the most important factor to make it work? That you get on with it and start lifting.

Don't waste time spending hours/days/weeks researching the exact detailed science behind it. Go to the gym today and start lifting.

Want to lose weight? Start today eating CI<CO. Don't waste time first learning about the exact mechanisms of fat metabolism etc.

You can do all of that stuff later if you want but don't wait to get started.

A "bad" program is 100% better than not lifting for building muscle.

A "Poor" macro CI<CO is 100% better than CI>CO for losing weight.

Don't worry about whats possible until you start to stall/plateau. Then you can put into practice all the knowledge you've gained after your first 6 months of progress.

Good luck!

Basilin

I am a lady, so it may be different - but I wanted to add that even a 5% increase in protein made a huge difference in my ability to perform and recover from work outs. Also, the type of protein is interesting - whey isolate had almost no benefit for me, but soy based protein powder did (may be that the whey was difficult to digest). Whole animal protein sources like lean meats and eggs showed the most benefit for me.

I have not lost much weight, but I am losing fat and inches. However, my initial bf% was 27. If you start with an average bf%, the ratio of muscle gain to fat loss might not be appreciable on the scale. At least, I don’t expect it to be.

mjnmj2

I've gained strength while losing weight. Can't really see muscles popping out yet but i'm slowly progressing on my lifts by adding weight slowly over the course of my workouts. Check out Barbell Medicine for a couple of guys who know what they are talking about regarding strength and weight loss. You should be lifting regardless of your weight loss goal so the strength and muscle will be there eventually.