Low Carb: Backed by research and recommended
Replies
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Lower carb diets may be better for those with insulin issues (PCOS, diabeties, etc) for sure however it doesn't always mean it's best for simply weight loss if you have no insulin issues. Weight is simply done with a calorie deficit... going low carb may help control calories as higher carb items can be higher in calories and a diet filled with good fats and protein will keep you fuller for longer and therefore not always needing the same amount of calories.
Almost all obese women are leptin-resistant. (It is not well known that women have 2 to 3 times the amount of leptin as a man at the same body fat level.) Leptin-resistance precedes and predicts insulin-resistance. In addition, estrogen causes women to run higher blood sugar numbers (especially during pregnancy when the growing brain of the fetus is being nourished by high blood sugar). It only makes sense for women to curb their carb intake (unless pregnant)--especially as they age because we tend to lose our ability to burn off carbohydrates efficiently, as we age. Women athletes and very, very active women are the only ones who can afford to eat the high carbohydrate diet that is recommended in various governmental food guides.
Do you have a source for this? I'm a very obese woman and my experience with keto diets has been awful. I got fatter and felt like death. Calorie counting is the only thing that has ever worked for me.0 -
(As an athletic person who needs carbs for fuel, I couldn't and wouldn't want to go low carb myself, but I DO limit my refined carbs and junk sugars. I don't need that extra sweet crap in my body.)
Just as a quick aside, depending on the type of athletics you perform in, at least a couple studies have shown that for endurance athletes, a keto diet is acceptable and may increase abilities:
http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF00392032#page-2
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S002604959990238X
http://www.biomedcentral.com/content/pdf/1743-7075-1-2.pdf
Obviously the science isn't completely settled on that, but it's interesting, I think. There's another one, too, that looked at cyclists from the 70's that I'll have to look for.0 -
1. The cravings are horrible!
My experience is that my cravings went away after about 2 weeks or so. Obviously, YMMV.2. Not everyone will magically lose 30 lbs the first month. (It took me 3 months at under 20gm of carb before I lost even 1lb).
That's actually somewhat odd. You would expect weight loss from glycogen depletion, if nothing else -- it's virtually impossible to maintain water weight at 20g carb/day. Do you have other metabolic issues (thyroid, etc.) that might have caused problems?4. It is expensive, to cut carbs you are eating mostly protein and some veg. Guess what costs more at the store!?
Perhaps this is where you had issues with your diet? Keto is not a high-protein diet. It's a high fat diet. I actually eat less protein than I did on a standard diet, and even on a reduced calorie diet. Eating too much protein can keep you out of ketosis, which would definitely lead to decreased weight loss and cravings.6. Some people, not all mind you, have seen there cholesterol sky rocket on this diet. You really need to be under a doctor's care for it!
LDL Cholesterol can raise on this diet -- though the current science is trending away from the idea that total cholesterol count correlates all that strongly with heart disease (in fact, in the original studies, low cholesterol also correlated strongly with sudden cardiac death -- which makes us think there's a good range that is neither too high nor too low). LDL breaks down in large fluffy particles and small dense particles -- the large ones are not harmful, the small dense ones can be, when combined with overall inflammation.I did it. I lost 55lbs using atkins. It took me 6 months. Then my husband and I separated and I was a single mom with two kids on foods stamps and had to eat like a normal person again. The weight came back and then some. This is my personal experience with it. It wasn't pleasant, it wasn't sustainable, and it didn't stay off.
My father on the other hand has been completely successful with it. So I guess I'm saying it's just not for everyone. I am low carb, 80-100gm a day is what I aim for. So far I've lost 21lbs with no cravings! If I want to eat it and I have the room in my macro's I do! So much happier this way!
Congratulations on finding something that's working for you that you're happy with. That's all any of us can do.0 -
I think nothing exists in isolation.
What kind of carbs?
And, a limited study is a limited study.
How long was weight loss sustained?
And, while weight loss is linked to health, weight loss isn't the only criterion for health.
On a low carb diet what are insulin levels over time, cholesterol, and all that other stuff..Data from 1,141 obese patients, some with type 2 diabetes, showed that following a low-carb diet for anywhere from three to 36 months resulted in significant improvements in waist circumference, blood pressure, triglycerides, fasting glycemia, A1c, insulin levels, and C-reactive protein levels as well as an increase in heart-protective HDL cholesterol. No significant changes were observed in LDL cholesterol and creatinine levels.
These results appeared to be consistent across most low-carb studies. Despite their higher total and saturated fat content, individuals following a carb-restricted diet tend to benefit from lower triglycerides, higher HDL cholesterol, lower C-reactive protein levels, and better glycemic control, which all translate to a lower risk of cardiovascular diseases. Total LDL cholesterol values usually remain unchanged, but their size usually shifts from the small and dense atherogenic pattern B to the more harmless, large and fluffy pattern A
And low carb is typically defined as carbs under 130g. A very low carb ketogenic diet is carbs under 50g. Carbs under 20g is the induction phase of Atkins.0 -
"The researchers showed that subjects who were obese felt more satiated and spontaneously decreased their calorie intake when fed meals providing fewer carbs and more protein and fat (4% carbs and 66% fat on the low-carb diet vs. 35% carbs and 35% fat on the moderate-carb diet). These findings could be the missing link to help individuals with type 2 diabetes reduce their calorie intake and lose weight without hunger."
This part is so right. I'm not diabetic but that was the missing link for me too. I just automatically eat less when I go low carb. Now to stick with it... I don't know why but every time I lose weight I get cocky and forget how easy it is to overeat carbs and gain the weight back. Or I did, I'm sticking with low carb this time.
Low carb maintenance is pretty easy--120 to 150 grams of carb a day (along with being sugar/wheat-free) should do it.0 -
(As an athletic person who needs carbs for fuel, I couldn't and wouldn't want to go low carb myself, but I DO limit my refined carbs and junk sugars. I don't need that extra sweet crap in my body.)
Just as a quick aside, depending on the type of athletics you perform in, at least a couple studies have shown that for endurance athletes, a keto diet is acceptable and may increase abilities:
http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF00392032#page-2
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S002604959990238X
http://www.biomedcentral.com/content/pdf/1743-7075-1-2.pdf
Obviously the science isn't completely settled on that, but it's interesting, I think. There's another one, too, that looked at cyclists from the 70's that I'll have to look for.
Athletic performance suffers for any type of high intensity training that recruits fast twitch muscle fibers, as this is the type of training that is heavily glycogen dependent. Endurance training relies on some glycogen, but can also be performed mainly from fat oxidation and ketones supplied from stored fat. Any type of heavy weight lifting, or high intensity cardio like sprints, car pushes, sled drags, etc that recruit fast twitch muscle fibers will suffer heavily on a low carb diet unless carb refeeds are used.0 -
6. Some people, not all mind you, have seen there cholesterol sky rocket on this diet. You really need to be under a doctor's care for it!
LDL Cholesterol can raise on this diet -- though the current science is trending away from the idea that total cholesterol count correlates all that strongly with heart disease (in fact, in the original studies, low cholesterol also correlated strongly with sudden cardiac death -- which makes us think there's a good range that is neither too high nor too low). LDL breaks down in large fluffy particles and small dense particles -- the large ones are not harmful, the small dense ones can be, when combined with overall inflammation.
The most important results in a cholesterol lipid panel are ratios, not actual counts. For instance:
You want Total Cholesterol/HDL to be less than 4
You want LDL/HDL to be less than 3
Because HDL cholesterol cleans LDL cholesterol out of your system, these numbers tell you how much cholesterol is actually present in your tissue.
Also, you want Triglycerides/HDL to be less than 2. This ratio is the single most powerful predictor of extensive coronary heart disease among all the lipid variables.0 -
Lower carb diets may be better for those with insulin issues (PCOS, diabeties, etc) for sure however it doesn't always mean it's best for simply weight loss if you have no insulin issues. Weight is simply done with a calorie deficit... going low carb may help control calories as higher carb items can be higher in calories and a diet filled with good fats and protein will keep you fuller for longer and therefore not always needing the same amount of calories.
Almost all obese women are leptin-resistant. (It is not well known that women have 2 to 3 times the amount of leptin as a man at the same body fat level.) Leptin-resistance precedes and predicts insulin-resistance. In addition, estrogen causes women to run higher blood sugar numbers (especially during pregnancy when the growing brain of the fetus is being nourished by high blood sugar). It only makes sense for women to curb their carb intake (unless pregnant)--especially as they age because we tend to lose our ability to burn off carbohydrates efficiently, as we age. Women athletes and very, very active women are the only ones who can afford to eat the high carbohydrate diet that is recommended in various governmental food guides.
Do you have a source for this? I'm a very obese woman and my experience with keto diets has been awful. I got fatter and felt like death. Calorie counting is the only thing that has ever worked for me.
I have various sources as I have been studying this for a long time. But I am not talking about ketotic diets. I'm talking here about "lower carbohydrate" diets, definitely NOT ketotic diets. Very low carbohydrate diets can send uric acid levels to the moon in very obese people and make you feel really lousy (in addition to causing gout attacks). I generally keep my carbs in the 80 to 110 gram range. (Anything under 130 grams is considered to be "low carb".) It isn't low enough to cause ketosis but low enough to keep blood sugar numbers down (a problem for many, many obese people) and cause loss of body fat.
ETA: I also watch my calories and stay within my calorie allotment. I eat VERY well as any of my MFP friends can attest.0 -
Wow. There is nothing like a Carb Fight....except a Carnivore/Vegan fight!
I am so lucky I get to aggrevate 2 groups....oh wait--3 groups! I get to annoy the Non-GlutenFree folks too!
I don't need studies. I have my OWN. My body, my reaction, my success (or lack thereof).
1 - Did lower carbs (under 140). Worked. Yep, just worked incredibly slowly (3 lbs/month)
2 - Dropped gluten. Felt so much better I dropped ALL grains. (ok, I'm ready for the attacks!) I felt 20 years younger. I dropped my daily claritin because my allergies simply were no longer a player. I lost a little faster. I stopped having unpleasant poop issues (yeah, I know, TMI). Also, too much gas on tummy went AWAY. I stopped sleeping all day. I haven't had a headache in 6 months.
3 - Here it is.....I WENT LOW-CARB, HIGH FAT. I am losing at a nice steady pace (7 lbs/month). I am doing great on 6-7 hours sleep. In 4 months, I dropped blood glucose 6.2 to 6.0 (was surprised is wasn't more). In 4 months, I dropped cholesterol 40 points. A month later, I got to cut my diabetes meds and blood pressure meds in HALF.
I am very happy with my experiment. I cheat less because I am satisfied with the many delicious things I can eat. I sure as heck don't miss low fat...or wheat! When I have lost my weight, I will SLOWLY add back more fruit and other carbs (some grains). I will not go out and eat a whole pizza. That is the ONE thing all the nay-sayers about low carbs do not understand. When you get on maintenance, you ADD carbs back in slowly until you find YOUR peak (where you begin to gain again). Then you back down a little---and VOILA--you have maintenance. Some folks maintain at over 150 carbs/day. It is individual.
As far as my experiment, I am thrilled with it. My sister (also diabetic) follows HER doctor's advice and enjoys potatoes, bread, dessert, pasta, and whatever she pleases. She is perfectly happy with her FOUR MEDICATIONS that always seem to be increasing as she brags that her number is 6.0!!! WOW. that is truly something to be happy about---I JUST WOULDN'T BE TOO HAPPY WITH HAVING TO TAKE 4 MEDICATIONS AT FOUR INTERVALS. (at increasing levels).
Oh, throughout the entire diet experiment above, I exercised 4-6 days/week. Lots of cardio--walk/jog, elliptical, swim laps & weight machines and free weights.
and for those who were annoyed at the title, there IS only so much room. And many folks who are NOT DIABETIC, have found great success with lower carb, or LOW carb. So for the anti-LOW carbers, I still find it odd that you would bother with the thread. I personally try to hit threads where I 'might' learn something--not to just see an opening to shoot down someone else's preferred Way of Eating.0 -
Wow. There is nothing like a Carb Fight....except a Carnivore/Vegan fight!
I am so lucky I get to aggrevate 2 groups....oh wait--3 groups! I get to annoy the Non-GlutenFree folks too!
I don't need studies. I have my OWN. My body, my reaction, my success (or lack thereof).
1 - Did lower carbs (under 140). Worked. Yep, just worked incredibly slowly (3 lbs/month)
2 - Dropped gluten. Felt so much better I dropped ALL grains. (ok, I'm ready for the attacks!) I felt 20 years younger. I dropped my daily claritin because my allergies simply were no longer a player. I lost a little faster. I stopped having unpleasant poop issues (yeah, I know, TMI). Also, too much gas on tummy went AWAY. I stopped sleeping all day. I haven't had a headache in 6 months.
3 - Here it is.....I WENT LOW-CARB, HIGH FAT. I am losing at a nice steady pace (7 lbs/month). I am doing great on 6-7 hours sleep. In 4 months, I dropped blood glucose 6.2 to 6.0 (was surprised is wasn't more). In 4 months, I dropped cholesterol 40 points. A month later, I got to cut my diabetes meds and blood pressure meds in HALF.
I am very happy with my experiment. I cheat less because I am satisfied with the many delicious things I can eat. I sure as heck don't miss low fat...or wheat! When I have lost my weight, I will SLOWLY add back more fruit and other carbs (some grains). I will not go out and eat a whole pizza. That is the ONE thing all the nay-sayers about low carbs do not understand. When you get on maintenance, you ADD carbs back in slowly until you find YOUR peak (where you begin to gain again). Then you back down a little---and VOILA--you have maintenance. Some folks maintain at over 150 carbs/day. It is individual.
As far as my experiment, I am thrilled with it. My sister (also diabetic) follows HER doctor's advice and enjoys potatoes, bread, dessert, pasta, and whatever she pleases. She is perfectly happy with her FOUR MEDICATIONS that always seem to be increasing as she brags that her number is 6.0!!! WOW. that is truly something to be happy about---I JUST WOULDN'T BE TOO HAPPY WITH HAVING TO TAKE 4 MEDICATIONS AT FOUR INTERVALS. (at increasing levels).
Oh, throughout the entire diet experiment above, I exercised 4-6 days/week. Lots of cardio--walk/jog, elliptical, swim laps & weight machines and free weights.
and for those who were annoyed at the title, there IS only so much room. And many folks who are NOT DIABETIC, have found great success with lower carb, or LOW carb. So for the anti-LOW carbers, I still find it odd that you would bother with the thread. I personally try to hit threads where I 'might' learn something--not to just see an opening to shoot down someone else's preferred to diet!
I'm sorry, but the bolded statement completely invalidates any of your results translating to anybody else. You said it yourself, you don't need studies. That's great if it works for you, but without proven scientific studies, your results are personal and not proven to work for anybody else. Congratulations that you found something that works well for you though, more power to you.0 -
I'm sorry, but the bolded statement completely invalidates any of your results translating to anybody else. You said it yourself, you don't need studies. That's great if it works for you, but without proven scientific studies, your results are personal and not proven to work for anybody else. Congratulations that you found something that works well for you though, more power to you.
This!0 -
I'm sorry, but the bolded statement completely invalidates any of your results translating to anybody else. You said it yourself, you don't need studies. That's great if it works for you, but without proven scientific studies, your results are personal and not proven to work for anybody else. Congratulations that you found something that works well for you though, more power to you.
I'm not sure that much of what she said is really arguable or requiring scientific proof. Here's what she said happened to her:
- She's losing at a rate of 7lb/mo. That's under 2lb/week, which is a reasonable pace for any diet.
- She's doing great on 6-7 hours of sleep. Pretty subjective in any rate.
- A1c dropped from 6.2 to 6. Science is pretty settled that lowering dietary carbs should reduce blood sugar.
- Cholesterol dropped 40 points. Doesn't tell us where she was beforehand, or how the measurements were taken, but that's pretty much within the variance for cholesterol testing from point A to point B, regardless of any dietary changes.
She ate a calorie restricted diet, exercised frequently, and saw success. I don't see any claims in her post that would really require any sort of citation. The only things that would be questionable across a population was her gluten portion, and she stated that it was how she felt.And many folks who are NOT DIABETIC, have found great success with lower carb, or LOW carb.
Can't find too much fault with that, either.0 -
During the thread, there was a bunch of "this study says...' counteracted by "this study says..."
I was just making the point that for every negative is a positive.
I said I didn't need a study---meaning to convince me. I had my own results to convince me. I also did NOT say that I did not spend hours and hours and hours reading many different studies to make an informed decision about what I was willing to try in my effort to get healthier. And thanks, I did find something that works for me. As each and everyone should do without thinking their way is the one and only right way for everyone.0 -
Here's what I think about: 90% of the people who lose weight gain it back.
If you believe in something and you can sustain it, you'll probably fall within that 10% which doesn't.
It can be vegan, it can be vegetarian, it can be Paleo, it can be Atkins.
If you feel your "diet" is working for you, you're probably going to be more inclined to care for your body with exercise/adequate sleep. Feeling like a failure at weight loss can be a huge stressor...0 -
I'm sorry, but the bolded statement completely invalidates any of your results translating to anybody else. You said it yourself, you don't need studies. That's great if it works for you, but without proven scientific studies, your results are personal and not proven to work for anybody else. Congratulations that you found something that works well for you though, more power to you.
I'm not sure that much of what she said is really arguable or requiring scientific proof. Here's what she said happened to her:
- She's losing at a rate of 7lb/mo. That's under 2lb/week, which is a reasonable pace for any diet.
- She's doing great on 6-7 hours of sleep. Pretty subjective in any rate.
- A1c dropped from 6.2 to 6. Science is pretty settled that lowering dietary carbs should reduce blood sugar.
- Cholesterol dropped 40 points. Doesn't tell us where she was beforehand, or how the measurements were taken, but that's pretty much within the variance for cholesterol testing from point A to point B, regardless of any dietary changes.
She ate a calorie restricted diet, exercised frequently, and saw success. I don't see any claims in her post that would really require any sort of citation. The only things that would be questionable across a population was her gluten portion, and she stated that it was how she felt.And many folks who are NOT DIABETIC, have found great success with lower carb, or LOW carb.
Can't find too much fault with that, either.
Her entire statement was just basically a summary of the choices she made during her weight loss. I'm not saying that they're untrue, but basically that they are correlations and not necessarily causations. Scientific studies show causation which is what is really important. I never said her statements were incorrect, I just said that they are personal and can't be applied to others. It's unclear whether her results were due to her weight loss, or whether they were due to the other decisions she made and that's impossible to tell without controlled studies, that's all I'm saying, but like I said, I'm happy for her that she found what works best for her, hopefully we can all do the same.0 -
Gee whiz AJ_G where's the loyalty? We were on the same side a few weeks ago against the Militant Vegans! :flowerforyou:0
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You've lost 71 lbs...you found a way which works for you.
I'm gone from 186 to 141 lbs (most pre-MFP)... I found a way which works for me.
I'm a vegan, but what I'm militant about is respecting one another's choices.0 -
Lower carb diets may be better for those with insulin issues (PCOS, diabeties, etc) for sure however it doesn't always mean it's best for simply weight loss if you have no insulin issues. Weight is simply done with a calorie deficit... going low carb may help control calories as higher carb items can be higher in calories and a diet filled with good fats and protein will keep you fuller for longer and therefore not always needing the same amount of calories.
I agree. What I found most confusing was the recommendation to watch starch & sugars but not cut them out (old paradigm)...and the new and relatively (at least in my experience) unsupported by medical professionals but supported clearly through anecdotal evidence; low carbing for weight loss & blood sugar control.
It is very encouraging indeed :drinker:0 -
Thanks for the article I will read it carefully when I have time....and diabetes.
(Isn't this old information from like a decade ago? Isn't this just what Dr.'s tell you when you get diagnosed? Where's my tattoo pen?).
:noway:
How wonderful for you to enjoy good health...and NO, this is not what's being advised to diabetic patients. Those of us who take our health into our own hands and do the research go largely unsupported by medical professionals who keep spouting the same old....yanno what?...Nevermind.
Have a nice day :huh:0 -
From the article:
"The American Diabetes Association (ADA) encourages individuals with diabetes to learn basic carbohydrate counting skills and aim for 45 to 60 g of carbohydrates per meal."
This recommendation seems way too general to me. A family member who is Type 2 diabetic (and VERY sedentary) kept telling me this all time (and trying to encourage me to eat more carbs because you can!). I kept looking at her and saying, but you weigh 100lbs more than me?! Doesn't it seem silly to recommend that we both eat the same number of grams of carbs at every meal??!!!!
I eat to my meter (you should've seen my Endo cringe when I told him that he was horrified) but doing so, I found that I can only tolerate up to 12 g of carbs per meal for a max spike of about 140mg/dl & 1/2 that amount for 'no spike-snacks' for an average (other than meals) of about 96-110mg/dl every other time of the day.
I started out with an A1C of 9.9..that was 4 months and 22#'s ago.
Pfft. If I followed his advice, I'd be on Insulin & hypertension meds :huh: His answer is to throw meds at the symptoms instead of addressing the underlying issue, it's not his fault though. I'm sure malpractice insurance is expensive and it's not his kidneys, retinas, toes, heart etc. :noway:0 -
You've lost 71 lbs...you found a way which works for you.
I'm gone from 186 to 141 lbs (most pre-MFP)... I found a way which works for me.
I'm a vegan, but what I'm militant about is respecting one another's choices.
Great loss and way of eating. I guess I should have put a disclaimer in my note saying where I do respect the Vegan lifestyle. There is definitely a difference in Vegans and Militant Vegans. Some have chosen to eat that way and some have chosen to verbally attack anyone that does not. My statement was not intended to slam the Vegan style. It was only a reminder to someone that we were both being called UNethical, among a lot of very degrading and downright crazy rants a few weeks ago.
I totally agree with you about being adamant toward respecting everyone's choice to experiment and find their own way. We are all unique and it takes many of us a long time to hit on what works for us. I know Vegan Diabetics. I applaud their choice. I am envious that they are able to contol their disease with more carbs than my body will tolerate.
So Congrats on your loss and being happy with your lifestyle. Can we ask for anything more? By the way, are you diabetic? If you said so earlier, I apologize if I missed it.0 -
From the article:
"The American Diabetes Association (ADA) encourages individuals with diabetes to learn basic carbohydrate counting skills and aim for 45 to 60 g of carbohydrates per meal."
This recommendation seems way too general to me. A family member who is Type 2 diabetic (and VERY sedentary) kept telling me this all time (and trying to encourage me to eat more carbs because you can!). I kept looking at her and saying, but you weigh 100lbs more than me?! Doesn't it seem silly to recommend that we both eat the same number of grams of carbs at every meal??!!!!
I eat to my meter (you should've seen my Endo cringe when I told him that he was horrified) but doing so, I found that I can only tolerate up to 12 g of carbs per meal for a max spike of about 140mg/dl & 1/2 that amount for 'no spike-snacks' for an average (other than meals) of about 96-110mg/dl every other time of the day.
I started out with an A1C of 9.9..that was 4 months and 22#'s ago.
Pfft. If I followed his advice, I'd be on Insulin & hypertension meds :huh: His answer is to throw meds at the symptoms instead of addressing the underlying issue, it's not his fault though. I'm sure malpractice insurance is expensive and it's not his kidneys, retinas, toes, heart etc. :noway:
^^^ You got THAT RIGH!!!!!!! Amen to taking care of ourselves.
Like I said earlier about my sister....she happily eats what the dietician said she could. and she HAPPILY BRAGS about her a1c of 6.0. and then she wonders why the doctor keeps addind more meds! She takes 4 different meds spread throughout her day 4 different times. and 2 of the meds CAUSE WEIGHT GAIN!!!! and she HAS gained. So, yeah, the dietician & her doctor are doing a real good job for her following the AMA protocol.0 -
Lower carb diets may be better for those with insulin issues (PCOS, diabeties, etc) for sure however it doesn't always mean it's best for simply weight loss if you have no insulin issues. Weight is simply done with a calorie deficit... going low carb may help control calories as higher carb items can be higher in calories and a diet filled with good fats and protein will keep you fuller for longer and therefore not always needing the same amount of calories.
It shouldn't comes as a shock to anybody that low carb can be better if you're diabetic. You don't have to be a doctor to understand how insulin works and how carbs, fats, and protein affect the balance of insulin and glucagon. That being said, if you don't have any issues with insulin resistance, a low carb diet isn't any better than a standard diet for weight loss or for your health.
Disagree with that first sentence. I had no CLUE how insulin worked or how eating a ton of carbs affected insulin until I was diagnosed with insulin resistance. It's not common knowledge for the average person, which is kind of sad because anyone with a family history of diabetes or insulin problems in general needs to know it.
This is what happened to me too :ohwell: I had no idea until this past April:sick: I went to the doctor's with a pain in my tummy & they told me my casual BG was 266 mg/dl :noway:0
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