Cal deficit wight training ques. low rep v. hypertrophy rep

michaelmadonna

I've been strength training and weight lifting for several years but only started getting serious with my nutrition when I joined MFP this past April. I understand that, other than a few exceptions which I don't fit in, you can't build muscle while in a calorie deficit. It's important to continue to strength train though to try and maintain LBM.

Which brings me to my question. What would be the reason and/or purpose to train in the hypertrophy rep range while in a calorie deficit as apposed to just training in the lower rep, higher weight, strength rep range?

When I started I had an excellent trainer (really certified stength and condition coach) who moved a bit too far from me to continue training with him. I was doing a lot of both compound and isolation lifts in a split program and when I stopped training with him about 1 1/2 -2 years ago I continued to basically follow those routines (they were changed about every 6 weeks) - Since I've gotten serious with my calorie counting and I'm more concerned now with cutting some fat and maintaining as much LBM I simplified my program and I'm doing Stronglifts 5x5 for a little over a month. I started light (not at the bar) and still haven't maxed out on any of the lifts yet.

Does this make sense to continue or should I go back to a split routine incorporating both low rep and hypertrophy rep range exercises?

TIA for any input.

michaelmadonna

Bump - anyone?

Azdak

For all practical purposes, it makes absolutely no difference. A lot of arcane details of exercising discussed on MFP have little or no relevance to the average person trying to loose weight.

I don't know the exact reason why your trainer designed a more varied program for you in the past, other than the most obvious one that most books on resistance training recommend a periodized approach (I think I just made up that form of the word)--which means cycling through periods of hypertrophy- and endurance-level training.

My general philosophy is that, calorie deficit or no deficit, you should train to become more fit, rather than training specifically to lose weight. Exercise is more of an adjunct activity for a weight loss program anyhow--diet is what truly drives the bus--so I would say follow a workout program that is designed around your fitness goals. For resistance training, that would include some type of "periodization"--either tightly or loosely structured. If you feel like the simplicity of Stronglifts fits your needs right now, that is fine--just build in an occasional week of lower- to medium intensity work.

michaelmadonna

Thanks Azdak, I've read a number of your posts and find them to be very helpful and informative. Like alot of things in life .. I wish I knew then what I know know ... I "wasted" a bunch of good years training without proper nutrition or really understanding my calorie needs and goals (despite the advise of my trainer at the time). While I am trying to lose weight, my goal is to continue to build strenght and get to a decent BF% - I'm 5' 11" now 227lbs and probably between 22-24% BF. The last time it was accurately measured I was in the 260 lb range a couple of years ago and it was 24% - not sure what that number is yet but I'll know it when I get there - right now I'm shooting for 12-15% and see how that looks and feels, so know while I'm losing I'd like to retain as much LBM as possible.

Do you have a different opinion or thought on the set rep range? From what I've seen on the forums here most people agree (and I might be off with the exact numbers) strength 5-8; hypertrophy 10-15; endurance 15-20

Azdak

Thanks Azdak, I've read a number of your posts and find them to be very helpful and informative. Like alot of things in life .. I wish I knew then what I know know ... I "wasted" a bunch of good years training without proper nutrition or really understanding my calorie needs and goals (despite the advise of my trainer at the time). While I am trying to lose weight, my goal is to continue to build strenght and get to a decent BF% - I'm 5' 11" now 227lbs and probably between 22-24% BF. The last time it was accurately measured I was in the 260 lb range a couple of years ago and it was 24% - not sure what that number is yet but I'll know it when I get there - right now I'm shooting for 12-15% and see how that looks and feels, so know while I'm losing I'd like to retain as much LBM as possible.

Do you have a different opinion or thought on the set rep range? From what I've seen on the forums here most people agree (and I might be off with the exact numbers) strength 5-8; hypertrophy 10-15; endurance 15-20

That's as good as any, although I think some people would go to 2-4 as "strength", but I also think that's more specialized. Lyle McDonald makes a good case for 5-9 as being the "sweet spot" where most people will get the overall most benefit. Before I hurt my back, that's pretty much the range I found most productive--with regular cycles into the "endurance" range and the 2-4 "heavy" range as well.

grantdumas7

There is no right or wrong answer. Choose the routine you enjoy because you are more than likely to stick with it. You could do an upper/lower split and one day focus on strength doing reps in the 3-6 range and another on hypertrophy, even-though, you are dieting.
This was true for me and most people that go on a calorie deficit, they loose strength on the core movements. Bench press is usually affected the most, followed by squats and then deadlifts.

michaelmadonna

Thanks, I get that, I was just wondering really is there a purpose or point to do reps in the hypertrophy range in a calorie deficit since I won't get any hypertrophy b/c I won't be gaining or building muscle in a calorie deficit.

Snow3y

With regards to nutrition; Do a slow and long deficit, thus losing minimal muscle gains.

When losing weight, there is NO need at all to change your gym routine... That would mean your body is going to be doing something it's not used to, something that would usually cause more muscle built.. ... What I'm trying to say is, stick with the exercises you used to build muscle, you built it that way, you can lose fat that way... Trust

These statements given are from something I've learnt through all natural bodybuilder Mattew Ogus, he's been training for many years and is a firm believer of sharing the truth behind working out and nutrition. He is not one of those 'bro science' guys who have pseudological myths of how to gain or lose weight.. He really knows his stuff.

Good luck

michaelmadonna

That's as good as any, although I think some people would go to 2-4 as "strength", but I also think that's more specialized. Lyle McDonald makes a good case for 5-9 as being the "sweet spot" where most people will get the overall most benefit. Before I hurt my back, that's pretty much the range I found most productive--with regular cycles into the "endurance" range and the 2-4 "heavy" range as well.

That's what my old routines were more like, cycling lower and higher rep excercises ... my trainer was a Charles Poliquin trained and certified and aside from cycling low and higher rep excercises he was also big on tempo for strength - usually 3-4 seconds on the (and I'm not sure if this is the right term) concentric portion.

Thanks again.

grantdumas7

I don't think it would hurt to train in the hypertrophy range because in theory you may still maintain the muscle you have but that doesn't mean training the strength range won't help you maintain as well.

Snow3y

Oh and another thing about training, With regards to weight loss... I would recommend doing strength training, why? because you want to lose as little strength as possible in this period.. By doing hypertrophy only, you will most definitely lose muscle mass due to strength loss as well..

Best of luck man

michaelmadonna

Oh and another thing about training, With regards to weight loss... I would recommend doing strength training, why? because you want to lose as little strength as possible in this period.. By doing hypertrophy only, you will most definitely lose muscle mass due to strength loss as well..

Best of luck man

That's why I switched from my split routines which cycled between both low and high rep exercises to Stronglifts 5x5 with is basically a fully body compound lift strength program. I know I can't build in a deficit but I'm trying to maintain as much LBM and strength as possible.

Thanks again!

grantdumas7

You may want to look at doing a routine called Ice Cream Fitness. It's like strong lifts but with some hypertrophy thrown in. Here is video for it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=feY6vi6ORXo

And here is his video for intermediates.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vblgdz2RI-Y

mustgetmuscles1

I lost all my weight while doing the traditional bodybuilder split in the 8-12 range. I would have done it differently knowing what i know now and I am not recommending you do that. I am just pointing out that it will work just as good for maintaining LBM.

I have since switched to 5/3/1 with and upper/lower split for the accessory work. Getting both "strength" and "hypertrophy" ranges in every workout.

Honestly I think most of us would never be able to tell much of a difference in body composition if we did 5-8 vs 8-12 reps. I mean its not either-or. You can still increase strength on the 8-12 range and you can still get bigger on a 3-5 range.

Strength gain would probably be greater on a "strength" program.

michaelmadonna

I lost all my weight while doing the traditional bodybuilder split in the 8-12 range. I would have done it differently knowing what i know now and I am not recommending you do that. I am just pointing out that it will work just as good for maintaining LBM.

I have since switched to 5/3/1 with and upper/lower split for the accessory work. Getting both "strength" and "hypertrophy" ranges in every workout.

Honestly I think most of us would never be able to tell much of a difference in body composition if we did 5-8 vs 8-12 reps. I mean its not either-or. You can still increase strength on the 8-12 range and you can still get bigger on a 3-5 range.

Strength gain would probably be greater on a "strength" program.

I agree, I think you're probably right it wouldn't show much of a difference for most of us in body composition. I was just curious if anyone had any opinions or thoughts on this that might differ from mine.

I was looking at Wendler's 5/3/1 also before I started Stronglifts 5x5 and I'll probably move to that once I get down to where I want to be or if I get bored with Stronglifts and/or plateau on it. Stronglifts is a little simpler program and gets me in and out quicker. I still do arm work on my off days sometimes as well as some cardio more just to get my heart pumping on those days.

Thanks and congrats on your progress!

DavPul

For all intents and purposes, it won't make any difference. Choose the complete program that you like and keep lifting. One caveat, if you're in a deep deficit (and possibly adding cardio), you may not have enough energy for an all out bodybuilding, high set, high rep program.

michaelmadonna

For all intents and purposes, it won't make any difference. Choose the complete program that you like and keep lifting. One caveat, if you're in a deep deficit (and possibly adding cardio), you may not have enough energy for an all out bodybuilding, high set, high rep program.

Thanks, again, I was just curious if I was missing something. I figured as long as I'm lifting I'll be fine and since I'm partial to low rep heavier weight (I hate counting that high) I'll keep doing that for now. I'm not in too much of a deficit about 1 lb a week right now or maybe less, still trying to determine it and my cardio isn't intense just doing something on the off days to keep moving. I was doing ok on my split routine but since I'm in a deficit I thought I might be wasting time unnecessarily on higher rep and isolation exercises.

rodduz

When on a deficit it's definitely better to lift heavy and less. Less is more. Think of it logically. When you're on a big calorie deficit there is not enough to go round... so the body turns to fat AND muscle to break it down to meet it's energy demands.

Lifting heavy *kitten* weights says to your body, "Woah, hang on there, we need this muscle as otherwise you won't be able to do that again in two days time!" And the CNS will hold on to the muscle mass and burn fat in it's place.

The body will always turn to protein to breakdown before fat as your body doesn't give a *kitten* about your muscles but it wants your fat as a necessity to survive for as long as possible!

Lifting lighter weights for loads of reps burns more calories but those calories are coming form your hard worked for muscles as well as your fat!

If you think about it, it's fairly logical. Think of your body saying to itself, 'hang on he's lifting light, we don't need all this muscle for that, lets break it down as we need the energy.'

That's exactly what is going on. When on a calorie deficit, less is more. 3 sets 3 reps for deads/squats, 3 sets 5 for dips/bench/shoulder. That's all you'll need. Use your diet to lose the weight not by doing extra workouts etc. And most importantly hold on to that muscle!