How to not gain fat?

Sarauk2sf

For the amount of time you have been lifting and the amount of the weight, I would go to more of a full body 3 x a week. I like the AllPro routine which can be found here: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=4195843&page=1

Either that or a 2 day (2 x a week) push/pull split.

I would actually recommend sitting at maintenance for a while you get your form down and the compound lifts up a bit. You may well get some newbie gains from moving to a different program (based on your comments on your current/prior routine) so you do not really need to be eating a surplus immediately.

It is really important that you ensure you have progressive loading built into the program.

AnsiStar

Sorry for the late reply!

Could I not just up the intensity of that routine? I kind of don't want it to be a waste of money

Also, I will shortly be going on holiday with my family to Florence for 9 days. we go every year so I know exactly what I want to eat but with no access to a gym I'm a bit nervous of gaining weight.

neandermagnon

re full body v split routine

I have made far, far, more progress on a full body routine (stronglifts 5x5) than I ever did on split routines. I made the classic mistake of thinking that because I'd spent a few months moving dumbbells up and down, that made me an "intermediate" lifter and that I should be doing split routines. Fact was during the whole time I was doing that, I wasn't using heavy enough weights and wasn't progressively adding weight. Then on my split routine although I was using heavier weights (e.g. using a barbell for the first time) I wasn't making much progress, the isolation exercises I made no progress at all, the compound exercises progress was slow. After I switched to stronglifts the amount of weight I could lift went up very quickly in a short time, and also my muscles got bigger, and the ones i was trying to make bigger doing isolation exercises before, actually started getting bigger when i started doing stronglifts (i.e. with no isolation work at all).

So I totally second the advice to do a full body routine that's based on compound lifts with progressive increase in weight like stronglifts (there's a few similar programs out there, any of the good ones will do) until you get to the point that you're no longer making much progress with those, at which point you'll be an intermediate lifter and need an intermediate program, and that would include some kind of split routine.

Not sure what you mean by "don't want it to be a waste of money" - stronglifts 5x5 is a free download, Starting Strength by Mark Rippetoe (a similar program) Is a book and not very expensive (about 10 dollars on amazon).......... if you paid someone to design you the split routine you could always go back to that later on.

I'm eating at a surplus to make strength/weight gains, and to answer your original question, I feel like I've gained fat but the calipers say I've gained very little if any, some inch measurements have gone up, others have gone down, most of the ones that have gone up it's where the muscles have got bigger. I still fit in the same clothes, although my skinny jeans which used to fit my perfectly are now too tight in the quads/lower thigh and too loose in the lower butt area, because my quads got bigger and my butt got "perkier" (i.e. moved upwards). Bizarrely, I lost an inch from my hips even though I was bulking and gaining weight.

I'm not tracking my food intake, I'm just paying attention to nutrition, i.e. ensuring i eat plenty of protein, healthy fat, carbs, vitamins, minerals and fibre. I never let myself go hungry. I'm working on the principle that if I stimulate my muscles enough to grow my body's going to increase my appetite to make that happen... this was kind of an experiment, i.e. if i gain weight doing this I carry on like that, if I don't then I go back to tracking. So far I've gained 5-7lb doing this. If the weight gains stall then I'll start tracking.

Sarauk2sf

Sorry for the late reply!

Could I not just up the intensity of that routine? I kind of don't want it to be a waste of money

Also, I will shortly be going on holiday with my family to Florence for 9 days. we go every year so I know exactly what I want to eat but with no access to a gym I'm a bit nervous of gaining weight.

The problem with it is that you are only hitting some muscle groups once a week, which is not optimal based on where you are in your lifting.

Echo'ing neandermagnon with regard to understanding the 'wasting your money' comment..

If you eat at maintenance you will not gain weight. There is no point bulking if you cannot get to a gym as all your gains will be fat.

kitkat4141

Great information on this thread!

eric_sg61

Not gain fat when bulking? impossible unless godlike genetics....

or dat dere cell-tech

AnsiStar

re full body v split routine

I have made far, far, more progress on a full body routine (stronglifts 5x5) than I ever did on split routines. I made the classic mistake of thinking that because I'd spent a few months moving dumbbells up and down, that made me an "intermediate" lifter and that I should be doing split routines. Fact was during the whole time I was doing that, I wasn't using heavy enough weights and wasn't progressively adding weight. Then on my split routine although I was using heavier weights (e.g. using a barbell for the first time) I wasn't making much progress, the isolation exercises I made no progress at all, the compound exercises progress was slow. After I switched to stronglifts the amount of weight I could lift went up very quickly in a short time, and also my muscles got bigger, and the ones i was trying to make bigger doing isolation exercises before, actually started getting bigger when i started doing stronglifts (i.e. with no isolation work at all).

So I totally second the advice to do a full body routine that's based on compound lifts with progressive increase in weight like stronglifts (there's a few similar programs out there, any of the good ones will do) until you get to the point that you're no longer making much progress with those, at which point you'll be an intermediate lifter and need an intermediate program, and that would include some kind of split routine.

Not sure what you mean by "don't want it to be a waste of money" - stronglifts 5x5 is a free download, Starting Strength by Mark Rippetoe (a similar program) Is a book and not very expensive (about 10 dollars on amazon).......... if you paid someone to design you the split routine you could always go back to that later on.

I'm eating at a surplus to make strength/weight gains, and to answer your original question, I feel like I've gained fat but the calipers say I've gained very little if any, some inch measurements have gone up, others have gone down, most of the ones that have gone up it's where the muscles have got bigger. I still fit in the same clothes, although my skinny jeans which used to fit my perfectly are now too tight in the quads/lower thigh and too loose in the lower butt area, because my quads got bigger and my butt got "perkier" (i.e. moved upwards). Bizarrely, I lost an inch from my hips even though I was bulking and gaining weight.

I'm not tracking my food intake, I'm just paying attention to nutrition, i.e. ensuring i eat plenty of protein, healthy fat, carbs, vitamins, minerals and fibre. I never let myself go hungry. I'm working on the principle that if I stimulate my muscles enough to grow my body's going to increase my appetite to make that happen... this was kind of an experiment, i.e. if i gain weight doing this I carry on like that, if I don't then I go back to tracking. So far I've gained 5-7lb doing this. If the weight gains stall then I'll start tracking.

Excellent info here! Really appreciate your time to answer

In response to the money confusion, sorry I wasn't clear enough, I meant the programme I just spent money to get - the one I posted.

MercenaryNoetic26

Bump

neandermagnon

Excellent info here! Really appreciate your time to answer

In response to the money confusion, sorry I wasn't clear enough, I meant the programme I just spent money to get - the one I posted.

thanks... glad you found it useful

with regards to the programme you bought, you can always switch to it after you've progressed to where you can with a suitable beginners' programme like stronglifts or similar.

AnsiStar

Okay so maybe early October up my game a little? Might have moved up my calories more by then o even have gained weight from the family holiday

AxelM81

try calorie cycling (or zig zag diet): http://www.muscleandstrength.com/articles/zig-zag-bulking-approach.html
I went from 15% bodyfat to 9% in 10 weeks by strict dieting (including 1 fasting day) and I'm now also looking to do a lean bulk up. So I am eating 4000 to 5000 kcal on weight training days, 3000-3500kcal on cardio and martial arts training days and 2500 on my non training day. And then on Sunday (also non training day most of the times) I do a fasting day of 600 to 800kcal to burn fat (the idea behind the 5:2 diet - I do get majority of the calories from protein on the fasting to preserve lbm). On top of all that I do 8/16h intermittent fasting (leangains). I also used the leangains macros for bulking up and +30% on weight training days, -10% non training days and then I adjusted it all for my cardio and martial arts training days to just below TDEE (I have a TDEE of around 3600 - and a BMR at 15% body fat of 2088kcal/day measured via indirect calorimetry). Make sure you also cycle your carbs to keep leptin high.

I've spent loads of time reading scientific articles on google scholar and I think this is the best way to bulk up. I'm two weeks in and I can see massive progress in terms of the weight I am lifting compared to almost zero progress I have been making for months when I was cutting!
It is scary to eat that many calories on training days, but a fasting day does wonders to your body fat!

Hope that helps

Sarauk2sf

Okay so maybe early October up my game a little? Might have moved up my calories more by then o even have gained weight from the family holiday

I would also suggest maybe spending some time at the end of your session to work on your form for the compound lifts (most programs will incorporate them) - deadlifts, squats, bench press and OHP. That way, when you are ready to eat at a surplus, you will not have to be still getting your form down but can focus on improving it and your strength. It should make bulking more effective. You can just use light weights. Check out here for some help one form: http://startingstrength.wikia.com/wiki/FAQ:The_Lifts (don't worry about the power clean unless you are going to be doing SS as it is one of the few that incorporates it)

[I am making a rather large assumption that you will be picking one if the ones that do incorporate compound lifts, I realize]

AnsiStar

@AxelM81 - that sounds excellent! But for someone in recovery it's far too restrictive. At the moment I'm doing a more carby workout days and fattier resting days. Though they're only small amounts. Can you make any other suggestions on this without being TOO restrictive on me? I just don't want to fall back into panicking and starving

@Sarauk2sf - My routine incorporates squats but this would be a good way to lengthen my program a little. I feel it's a little short and though I can feel my muscles have been worked by the end I do wonder about how much in such a short space of time and if it's enough. Really panicking about losing muscle. My weight hasn't changed at all and I'm jusy scared of losing what little muscle I do have and gaining fat

AnsiStar

Hi everyone,

Sorry to revive an old thread but this has all the info about me in already!

So here's the deal, I've taken on board a lot of what's been said. I'm really trying to eat more and I'm lifting heavier. Hell on my holiday I even just chilled out and enjoyed it! I ate pizza, pasta, full fat cheese, cream, lots more oil than I'm used to, gelato, and even wine! I feel a lot better for it

So today I weighed myself at the gym. My body was starting to look different - I was less ribcage and a bit firmer in the middle. My spine doesn't protrude as much and my skin isn't bruised where my hips stick out anymore. I'm not as cold as I used to be either. It's been scary for me to accept but I was starting to feel proud of my progress...until I stepped on the scale. I've LOST weight. I weigh the same amount I did when I was starting puberty. I'm 96lbs and I'm a little worried. What do I do?

Sarauk2sf

Hi everyone,

Sorry to revive an old thread but this has all the info about me in already!

So here's the deal, I've taken on board a lot of what's been said. I'm really trying to eat more and I'm lifting heavier. Hell on my holiday I even just chilled out and enjoyed it! I ate pizza, pasta, full fat cheese, cream, lots more oil than I'm used to, gelato, and even wine! I feel a lot better for it

So today I weighed myself at the gym. My body was starting to look different - I was less ribcage and a bit firmer in the middle. My spine doesn't protrude as much and my skin isn't bruised where my hips stick out anymore. I'm not as cold as I used to be either. It's been scary for me to accept but I was starting to feel proud of my progress...until I stepped on the scale. I've LOST weight. I weigh the same amount I did when I was starting puberty. I'm 96lbs and I'm a little worried. What do I do?

The lifting may well have increased your maintenance calories. Walking your calories up to determine maintenance (your new one...it will take a bit of trial an error). Add 100 calories each week, until it looks like you are stabilized/gaining. Sit there for a couple of weeks to let things settle. When you have got a good feel for maintenance, then add the calories to get you into a surplus. Monitor your weight and adjust. Look at trends over a couple of weeks to take water weight fluctuations out of the picture as much as possible.

AnsiStar

Hi everyone,

Sorry to revive an old thread but this has all the info about me in already!

So here's the deal, I've taken on board a lot of what's been said. I'm really trying to eat more and I'm lifting heavier. Hell on my holiday I even just chilled out and enjoyed it! I ate pizza, pasta, full fat cheese, cream, lots more oil than I'm used to, gelato, and even wine! I feel a lot better for it

So today I weighed myself at the gym. My body was starting to look different - I was less ribcage and a bit firmer in the middle. My spine doesn't protrude as much and my skin isn't bruised where my hips stick out anymore. I'm not as cold as I used to be either. It's been scary for me to accept but I was starting to feel proud of my progress...until I stepped on the scale. I've LOST weight. I weigh the same amount I did when I was starting puberty. I'm 96lbs and I'm a little worried. What do I do?

The lifting may well have increased your maintenance calories. Walking your calories up to determine maintenance (your new one...it will take a bit of trial an error). Add 100 calories each week, until it looks like you are stabilized/gaining. Sit there for a couple of weeks to let things settle. When you have got a good feel for maintenance, then add the calories to get you into a surplus. Monitor your weight and adjust. Look at trends over a couple of weeks to take water weight fluctuations out of the picture as much as possible.

Thanks for your reply Sakura I'll keep pushing on that calorie limit then