Garden thread
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Looks helpful!0
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I bought a house last winter that has a small raised garden in the backyard. I'm not much for gardening, but I'm planning on planting a few things this spring. I'll probably be planting some hot pepper plants (jalepeno and serrano maybe?) and some cucumbers. Maybe some butternut or acorn squash too.
I grow herbs and bib lettuce in pots on my enclosed porch.2 -
Bumping so this doesn't get lost.
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My thought right now is to leave everything basically as is but add vegetables (as a replacement to part of the grass in my backyard). Is it better to just add a box and not plant directly in the ground? Or does it depend on the plant (I assume).
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I've done both boxes and beds at different times in life, and I think there are pros and cons.
Any kind of bed system (raised or in-ground), where you plant things close together (like the Square Food Gardening book describes), will have some of the advantages @gearhead426hemi mentioned:Above ground boxes are definitely the way to go. It gives you more control to add nutrients, control the weeds and the pests as well.
To me, as a Northern gardener**, one potential advantage for boxes vs. in-ground double-dug beds, is soil temperature. If the boxes are narrow enough to reach the center from the edges, there's the potential for the soil to warm up a bit more quickly than the ground, and soil temperature is a key variable for germination for some things (and can affect fungus issues, etc. around that). There are some strategies you can use to warm in-ground beds, but applying those to boxes will work to make them even warmer even earlier, too.
When I've had enough space, I liked the big garden I had with low raised edges (like landscape timbers). It could be roto-tilled in early Spring with a big tiller, then we'd put some scrap-lumber boards on top to create paths and growing areas that were narrow enough to reach from the edge, and intensely plant. The smaller box beds would need turning sometimes, and it was all hand work - too small for even a small tiller to be practical.
With decent garden storage, I could keep cages and even critter wire enclosures (sized to the big-garden bed areas, rolled up in off season) to protect particular plants or groups of plants.
Having some kind of solid edging that extends a few inches below ground level, even if you don't have a true box, is useful if your growing area is on a lawn. Vegetative spread of grass is always a challenge, and a barrier through their root zone really helps.
With truly unlimited space (which you clearly don't have, lemur), my dad had a great system, with wide-apart rows . . . so wide that he could disc between rows on his tractor, and only need to do a bit of hoe-weeding near plants as they got bigger. This was working great for him, well into his active 80s, getting good yields of lots of the usual garden crops. He had enough leaves that compost for the whole thing was pretty realistic, too. I've seen people with medium-large spaces successfully do a similar thing with a roto-tiller, on a smaller scale.
Bed systems (raised, box, in-ground) are the trendiest these days, and probably a good thing for most of us - it's what I've done here in the biggish-lot suburb. (I don't much vegetable-garden anymore. My neighbor has turned my big vegetable bed into some kind of weird giant Rhubarb plantation - long story, but he had permission, and it's OK. I grow some perennial herbs now, not much else edible; plenty of strange ornamentals.)
** For Northern gardeners, if you haven't run across them, I'll mention Johnny's Selected Seeds in Albion, ME, as a great resource. They have the best, most honest catalog I've ever seen (they will tell you tradeoffs between varieties, like short-season vs. best flavor, or flavor vs. keeping qualities), where most seed vendors just give you glowing hyperbolic reports for everything. They're very specific about disease resistances. They specialize in seed for the North (shorter season/cooler peak versions of things like peppers, melons, okra, etc.) They have great detail (germination temp charts for seeds for each veggie, for example), and the web site has a bunch of useful calculators and videos in the Grower's Library area. They sell some things in smaller packs, many are organic seeds, some are pelletized, etc. They are not (by far) your cheapest option, but they can be well worth the $$. No, I don't work for them, it's just that I really love them.
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Thank you, Ann! (I'm in Chicago, so pretty northern.)1
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Agreeing with boxes when space is limited.
Tomatoes need more room for their roots so I added another 6" high box to go around the tomato cage.
(It's really important to match the height of the tomato cage with the type of tomato - indeterminate tomatoes can get really big and need lots of support.)2 -
@French_Peasant based on your comments in the Mediterranean Diet thread, thought you might like to participate in this one as well.1
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If you are in the southwest USA, 'Extreme Gardening' by Owens is a nice gardening book, IMO. Organic methods, but he talks a lot about gardening in alkaline soil, or in areas where there may be drought or a lot of heat, so useful in all the areas getting drought right now, or desert areas.1
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Thank you, @kshama2001 and @lemurcat2 for bringing this thread to my attention! Reading through this thread has just been a summery balm for my soul, here in the midst of all the upper Midwest snow! I am up to so many things, my head spins just thinking about organizing them, but I will take a crack at a few highlights.
--I completed a university-supported Urban Ag course late last year, which involved not just a lot of training and research, but the development of a detailed planning document for my project, which is a garden on a vacant lot at our church/school. It's a very small garden comprised of 8 8 ft. by 8 ft. beds which are planted with a mix of fruit trees, perennials, herbs, and vegetables. This past year I kept detailed records of our food bank donations and we donated $1100 comparable market value in produce off of basically 200 square feet of soil (the 4 veg beds). It was definitely an eye-opening experience...how cheap some foods are, and how expensive others are. We could have donated a lot more, but I need to get some volunteers trained on harvesting and such, which is one of my goals for this year. Herbs always get quickly snapped up at the food bank, and I put together a little ideas flier for how to use them. (@lemurcat, I still haven't mastered fennel!) We also put in a very fine compost dual compost bin and will be putting in a trellis and some hops vines this year (hey, we're Lutherans, we like our hops!).
--I am considering buying a vacant lot this year so I can do some experimenting with season extension and organic techniques like floating row covers. My kids compete in 4-H, so it would give them a lot more room to grow; currently it's kind of tough for a couple of city kids to compete against all the country kids with the big farms, deep market gardening knowledge, and access to lots of manure from their other 4-H critters. (We have six rabbits and a worm farm.) The lot I am looking at is in a rougher but gentrifying neighborhood, and would be several hundred dollars to purchase; I am currently looking into liabilities with this particular lot before I put the cash on the barrel head. Due to restrictions in the city, it would be gardening with no fences, shed, on-site water source, etc., so a pretty challenging situation, but I am nothing if not tenacious. Also, an aggressive, beautiful, viciously spiked 30-foot Paul's Himalayan Musk Rambler rose makes a pretty fine fence in and of itself!
--Based on my experience with the school garden, I swear by raised beds, filled with a high quality garden soil and mulched with well-rotted straw. It is SO EASY compared to the in-ground gardening I have done. I have also been taming problem areas in my own garden with layers of cardboard covered with mulch (in the fancier areas) or grass clippings (in the more production-oriented areas).
--Boy, do I really need a truck.
--I also need a rhubarb plantation!
Those are my scattered thoughts for now; let me think about my favorite books and I can make some suggestions. I really love hearing about and seeing everyone's projects!
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Glad you are here! I've container gardened in the past (had a rooftop deck at my last place), but for the first time I have a backyard, so a place for a real garden. Not large, since I'm still in the city, but it gives me more options to experiment with.1
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Glad you are here! I've container gardened in the past (had a rooftop deck at my last place), but for the first time I have a backyard, so a place for a real garden. Not large, since I'm still in the city, but it gives me more options to experiment with.
I am so excited for you! I know you have been pining for more space, and now you have it. I'm looking forward to seeing what you decide to do with it. Let me know if you need a plant or seed delivery made to Chicago! 2 -
All my raised beds are 3x6...it works. Try square foot gardening. You plant denser, and get bigger yields.1
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@French_Peasant re season extension - I have a taller and shorter one of these that was wonderful for keeping the cabbage worms away from my kale last year. Normally second-year kale produces tiny leaves and I end up tossing the plant as soon as seedlings are available in my garden center. I'm curious to see if over-wintering it under this plus a floating row cover changes anything.
https://smile.amazon.com/Tierra-Garden-50-5010-Haxnicks-Fleece/dp/B004ZR1PQW/ref=sr_1_7
I have some other season extenders, but I think I bought them all when I was sharing an Amazon Prime account to which I no longer have access, so can't find them. They do really help when the temperatures fluctuate wildly up and down.2 -
kshama2001 wrote: »@French_Peasant re season extension - I have a taller and shorter one of these that was wonderful for keeping the cabbage worms away from my kale last year. Normally second-year kale produces tiny leaves and I end up tossing the plant as soon as seedlings are available in my garden center. I'm curious to see if over-wintering it under this plus a floating row cover changes anything.
https://smile.amazon.com/Tierra-Garden-50-5010-Haxnicks-Fleece/dp/B004ZR1PQW/ref=sr_1_7
I have some other season extenders, but I think I bought them all when I was sharing an Amazon Prime account to which I no longer have access, so can't find them. They do really help when the temperatures fluctuate wildly up and down.
Yes! We started using row covers on the kids cole crops this past summer, and they were helpful but we have their plants in dribs and drabs around the yard so it’s not very efficient. I have a cold frame over some chard and it seems to be keeping well, but I would love to be doing some low tunnels. I daydream about a green house! An official glass one...I had a cheap plastic one but it collapsed under snow. I needed some leeks this past weekend and can’t access them because they are buried under the snow.0 -
I never do very well with cucumbers. They always die really early on. I don't know what I'm doing wrong. They always get some sort of disease. Sucks because the cucumbers that I get before the plants die are SO good.
I discovered a great tip for cucumbers this year from an expert gardener- water cucumbers in the morning. Not the evening. They hate to be cold and wet (they want to be damp and warm). I had a fantastic crop of cucumbers this year
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I have a large plot in a community garden and also help look after the elementary school's plot. I have enough space to grow everything I'd want and add in lots of flowers for interest and the bees. I'm in Southern BC- it gets hot here, but we had a summer of intense forest fire smoke and I think that had a negative effect on the garden. Lack of sun seemed to delay ripening of tomatoes.
I have good success with greens (spinach, lettuce, chard, arugula) and can usually get a spring, summer and fall crop of those. Also plant tomatoes, cucumbers, green beans, squash, potatoes, herbs, zucchini, kolhrabi, beets. I tried yams (sweet potatoes) last year which is quite a process, and got tiny yams from that. Squash I don't think I'll grow again, they just take too much space for what a plant produces. My favorite is the garlic chives I inherited in my plot that are perennial. Milder than garlic, and delicious.
Goal this year is to try a small raised bed at my house. While the community garden is great, its nice to have something more accessible.3 -
carakirkey wrote: »I have a large plot in a community garden and also help look after the elementary school's plot. I have enough space to grow everything I'd want and add in lots of flowers for interest and the bees. I'm in Southern BC- it gets hot here, but we had a summer of intense forest fire smoke and I think that had a negative effect on the garden. Lack of sun seemed to delay ripening of tomatoes.
I have good success with greens (spinach, lettuce, chard, arugula) and can usually get a spring, summer and fall crop of those. Also plant tomatoes, cucumbers, green beans, squash, potatoes, herbs, zucchini, kolhrabi, beets. I tried yams (sweet potatoes) last year which is quite a process, and got tiny yams from that. Squash I don't think I'll grow again, they just take too much space for what a plant produces. My favorite is the garlic chives I inherited in my plot that are perennial. Milder than garlic, and delicious.
Goal this year is to try a small raised bed at my house. While the community garden is great, its nice to have something more accessible.
Yeah, last year sucked for this. Here's hoping the province isn't on fire again this year. Camping in Oliver in July (and visiting wineries) so would really like sunny vs smokey.3 -
I have a lot of garden books on my shelf, but I just wanted to post the one that I go to all the time: it is a big, thick chunk of book that I have annotated extensively and even put in little tabs along the side for easier reference. It covers just about every gardening topic you can think of (and a lot more topics if you are planning to grow fields of grain or raised goats or cattle), and it does it in such a delightfully chatty, interesting way, you will probably even read the sections that you didn't originally think you had any interest in.
I love how it covers every different kind of fruit and vegetable (most of the US at least--she doesn't get into tropicals and such) in great detail, from how to start your plants, cultivation, harvest, preservation and recipes. It is just an amazing book. As I said, I have a lot of other books that I refer to, but this is the first one I go to.
https://www.amazon.com/Encyclopedia-Country-Living-40th-Anniversary/dp/1570618402/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1547751221&sr=1-1&keywords=encyclopedia+of+country+living2 -
Thanks for the recommendation, that looks great!1
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BUMP
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Tacklewasher wrote: »Yeah, last year sucked for this. Here's hoping the province isn't on fire again this year. Camping in Oliver in July (and visiting wineries) so would really like sunny vs smokey.
I hope for your sake too! Oliver is lovely. So are the wineries! at least can visit wineries in smoky conditions. Usually July is OK. August has been challenging for forest fires for a number of years. Pro Tips- Visit Hidden chapel winery. Great people, small winery but great wines. Best beaches are in that area too- Okanagan Falls on Skaha lake, and Haynes Point in Osoyoos.0 -
Did you get snow, French Peasant? We actually did, although its been a low snow year otherwise. I don't recall where we were talking about this.0
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Did you get snow, French Peasant? We actually did, although its been a low snow year otherwise. I don't recall where we were talking about this.
I think it was on the Ranc Dressing thread. It snowed all day here, quite vigorously, but it was just fine little icy flakes, so we maybe got 3 inches with a lot of drifting. Did you get the cat to the vet? We did not drive at all yesterday but the kids played outside most of the day and we took the crazy dog out to burn some energy pulling my daughter on her sled.
I am looking at buying a vacant city owned lot, but over the weekend came to the realization that we would be on the hook for not just mowing but also snow removal...and it is a corner lot. Both are tougher when you are not allowed to put up a shed to store tools in. (It doesn’t appear that anyone else in the neighborhood bothers with snow removal.)0 -
It was snowy enough that I postponed to next Saturday. My alley is slippery when there's uncleared snow and I have a Prius which isn't great in snow.
Someone snowblowed the whole sidewalk, which was great, since otherwise I am supposed to shovel. It's been an easy winter so far but I always stress.5 -
Speaking of snow and gardening: https://northernwoodlands.org/outside_story/article/poor-mans-fertilizer2
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Great thread. Looking forward to planting some early plants like peas, lettuces, spinach. I have three raised beds. One has herbs like chives, oregano, thyme, parsely and sage as well as rhubarb at the other end. In between I might put in tomatoes. I'll put the spring plants in the other bed. Last fall I was relocating some perennial flowers from the different areas around the house and I plopped those into the third bed for now. Not quite sure where I want to move the plants yet, so I'll just leave it as a flower bed this year, and maybe plop a few annuals in for more colour. We'll be travelling east to the Maritimes in August and September so won't be around to tend to the garden when it will really needs it most. I'm also in Southern BC where it can get hot, and dry, and although we do have underground irrigation - it is not drip. That's something I'll need to work on this year and since I'm now retired, I can. And the maple trees have grown quite large now and are providing lots of shade - great in the hot sun, but not so wonderful for vegetable gardening. Oh well, its all fun to see what will grow and thrive. Good luck everyone.1
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Great thread. Looking forward to planting some early plants like peas, lettuces, spinach. I have three raised beds. One has herbs like chives, oregano, thyme, parsely and sage as well as rhubarb at the other end. In between I might put in tomatoes. I'll put the spring plants in the other bed. Last fall I was relocating some perennial flowers from the different areas around the house and I plopped those into the third bed for now. Not quite sure where I want to move the plants yet, so I'll just leave it as a flower bed this year, and maybe plop a few annuals in for more colour. We'll be travelling east to the Maritimes in August and September so won't be around to tend to the garden when it will really needs it most. I'm also in Southern BC where it can get hot, and dry, and although we do have underground irrigation - it is not drip. That's something I'll need to work on this year and since I'm now retired, I can. And the maple trees have grown quite large now and are providing lots of shade - great in the hot sun, but not so wonderful for vegetable gardening. Oh well, its all fun to see what will grow and thrive. Good luck everyone.
You sound like me--somehow those dang perennials keep on ending up in the vegetable beds! I have columbine seeding throughout and can't bear to pull it. Also, annuals...my kids receive a variety of seeds for a school children's competition, so we have a good chunk of space dedicated to flowers that I would not, myself, choose to grow.
In the shadier areas of the garden, I have had good luck with greens and herbs. Maples can be jerks because they have shallow roots that compete with everything. I have what I call my "square of desolation" at the front of our driveway, maybe a 10 x 10 space, that has a large old maple in it, and nothing else will thrive there in the barren, dry shade. I have some stunted hostas and boxwoods, suffering along; if I fertilize them with compost and worm castings the maple jams its roots into the area and just makes it worse. But then it puts on its fall show and all is forgiven!3 -
@French_Peas
Yes, that's how things started in the fall. I wanted to move the hostas that were basically sitting and dying under the maple trees. Moved them into other garden areas necessitating moving the plants from there - and on it went. We have about 20 maple trees in the yard. Love them and won't cut them down, but will be moving things around until I'm satisfied with how the plants are looking and performing. Can't wait. It snowed here yesterday which is good for the ground, but I'm itching to get my hands into the soil. p.s. we used all those leaves to make leaf mold. We'll see how that goes.2 -
carakirkey wrote: »Tacklewasher wrote: »Yeah, last year sucked for this. Here's hoping the province isn't on fire again this year. Camping in Oliver in July (and visiting wineries) so would really like sunny vs smokey.
I hope for your sake too! Oliver is lovely. So are the wineries! at least can visit wineries in smoky conditions. Usually July is OK. August has been challenging for forest fires for a number of years. Pro Tips- Visit Hidden chapel winery. Great people, small winery but great wines. Best beaches are in that area too- Okanagan Falls on Skaha lake, and Haynes Point in Osoyoos.
We go to OK falls to swim so the dogs can go as well. Since we live an hour or so north, we know ALLLLL the wineries Oh, and the gin that Duhb Glass sells is my fav. 0 -
Back on topic, how do most of you set up your irrigation? I put in hard pipes to my planters last year and ran small nozzles off of them, but I'm wondering if I should go to something more flexible so I can do some re-arranging if needed. I know I need to redo my potato box.2
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Tacklewasher wrote: »Back on topic, how do most of you set up your irrigation? I put in hard pipes to my planters last year and ran small nozzles off of them, but I'm wondering if I should go to something more flexible so I can do some re-arranging if needed. I know I need to redo my potato box.
I'm a lazy *baby-feline* . . . I just use soaker hoses with quick connectors, laying out the hoses at planting time**. Inelegant, but flexible as to arrangement, and pretty affordable. At least it reduces the potential for damp foliage (thus fungus type stuff), and wastes less water.
** In the perennial beds, I just leave 'em there until they leak a gush, and won't repair with tape. They last many, many years, even here in mid-Michigan with Winters that routinely drop below 0 degrees F each year.0
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