Low carb Vs keto
ChubbyRose84
Posts: 48 Member
I'm debating whether or not to do low carb, Vs keto for my health.
I'm not sure I can do keto, but I do like some of the recipes
Just not enough veggies for me.
I'm not sure I can do keto, but I do like some of the recipes
Just not enough veggies for me.
2
Replies
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Instead of picking marcos and trying to fit your diet around them I think a better place to start is just consistently logging your food each and every day - the healthful foods you like to eat, want to eat and think is sustainable. After you have a few weeks of food logs take a look and see where your carbs are at and if there's any changes you could comfortably make to lower them if that's your goal.
All you need for ketosis is carb restriction. Your carbs from vegetables are already at a ketogenic level if what you have logged is typical (65g/34g net carbs and 56g/33g net carbs) so that's the good news if you need to keep your carbs low for health concerns.7 -
sounds like you answered your own question. why not just start with low carb if that seems of interest to you and you want to retain more vegetables.
what do you mean by "for your heatlh" exactly?8 -
I try to keep carbs at 50g or less with about half of that from wine. The other half come from vegetables. That tends to place me in and out of ketosis depending on if I run that day and how far. For me it feels right and comfortable. I started eating this way in July and have lost twenty five pounds without counting or limiting calories. I just eat when hungry and stop when full. It just feels right and works for me. So OP I guess you can play around and do both and see what works best for you. I wouldn't stress on hitting ketosis by the numbers.2
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ChubbyRose84 wrote: »I'm debating whether or not to do low carb, Vs keto for my health.
I'm not sure I can do keto, but I do like some of the recipes
Just not enough veggies for me.
I am usually somewhat low carb (100-120 g) when on a deficit. I tried keto for a while as an experiment -- based on my reading and calculations, under 50 g net carbs is likely sufficient to be in ketosis, especially if you are somewhat active (I am). I aimed for about 50-55 g total carbs, pretty much all from vegetables and nuts plus occasionally some cottage cheese/greek yogurt, and usually was more like 60 g total carbs, but around 35 net.
My requirement for myself was not cutting back on vegetables much (I normally eat around 10-12 servings per day). I did the ketostix thing and was supposedly in ketosis.
I didn't find I felt much different doing keto vs. my normal low carb (or even moderate carb). I don't think keto is better for health (especially if you cut down on vegetables, although you absolutely don't have to). The exception would be if you have epilepsy, but then it would be doctor-supervised. If you have IR or T2D, low carb and combining carbs with fiber and protein should be adequate.
I'd say not to worry about it and just experiment to find what you like. There's a great rant somewhere by a low carb proponent who talks about this -- and yay, I found it!
http://www.tuitnutrition.com/2016/01/dont-be-a-ketard1.html
Oh, either way I don't use special recipes. I eat a vegetable omelet with feta for breakfast, normally do a salad with protein for lunch (often with nuts or seeds on it), and then meat (often fish) plus veg plus whatever to fill out calories for dinner. When higher (but still low) carb I include fruit (missing fruit was one big reason I did not want to stay keto), or potatoes/sweet potatoes, or a smaller serving of pasta, and am more likely to include higher amounts of low fat dairy (cottage cheese and greek yogurt) and beans/lentils as sources of protein (tofu and tempeh are actually reasonably low carb, and I eat that too -- I try to include a good variety of non meat sources of protein).4 -
I tend to speak in round or general numbers but it is usually a half bottle and a light beer afterwards so I guess that to be about 20g to 25g.0 -
What do you mean by “for your health”? If a doctor has recommended one of these diets, then follow that one. Otherwise, why do you need to follow either of them?5
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What do you mean about "for your health"? Unless you have been recommended a diet like that for a specific reason by a doctor, there is nothing healthy about eating less carbs. Carbs have gotten a reputation as unhealthy because companies make billions of dollars a year selling low carb solutions to things, so they've needed to make carbs out to be the bad guy. But there's no evidence at all backing that up.
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I would start with low carb first and see how it goes. Some, like me, find they feel better the lower their carbs are so the lower it further to ketogenic levels.
Unless there is a specific health issue that you need ketones for (such as a neurological or cognitive problem, or bad insulin resistance) then low carb might be enough for you to reach your health goals with.4 -
What do you mean about "for your health"? Unless you have been recommended a diet like that for a specific reason by a doctor, there is nothing healthy about eating less carbs. Carbs have gotten a reputation as unhealthy because companies make billions of dollars a year selling low carb solutions to things, so they've needed to make carbs out to be the bad guy. But there's no evidence at all backing that up.
@MikePTY
There's actually scientific study that proves carbs are bad for you. Unlike the 'fat is bad for you' hypothesis which has yet to proven, despite the billions of dollars spent on many many studies.
Studies on the carbs have to be self funded as the government won't fund them (Make too much money on the carb food industry and medicine to help with illness caused by carbs, to let it be known). Look them up. The documentary 'The Magic Pill' has a section that briefs it down for you. You can watch on Netflix. Low carb/keto prevents heart disease, diabetes, obesity, alzheimer's, improves autism, cures asthma and early cancer, increases life on late cancer, etc...36 -
Nothing is ever "proven" in science. Proof denies falsifiability, and is the antithesis of science. If you know of a scientific study that indicates that carbs are unhealthy with a sigma 5 or greater certainty, then cite it.4
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Larkspur94 wrote: »
@MikePTY
There's actually scientific study that proves carbs are bad for you. Unlike the 'fat is bad for you' hypothesis which has yet to proven, despite the billions of dollars spent on many many studies.
Studies on the carbs have to be self funded as the government won't fund them (Make too much money on the carb food industry and medicine to help with illness caused by carbs, to let it be known). Look them up. The documentary 'The Magic Pill' has a section that briefs it down for you. You can watch on Netflix. Low carb/keto prevents heart disease, diabetes, obesity, alzheimer's, improves autism, cures asthma and early cancer, increases life on late cancer, etc...
I'm sorry but this is nonsensical pseudo-science, not backed up by any real research. One widely criticized propaganda documentary isn't going to make it true.
I'm going to trust legit sources like the British NHS over that. https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/healthy-weight/why-we-need-to-eat-carbs/11 -
Larkspur94 wrote: »What do you mean about "for your health"? Unless you have been recommended a diet like that for a specific reason by a doctor, there is nothing healthy about eating less carbs. Carbs have gotten a reputation as unhealthy because companies make billions of dollars a year selling low carb solutions to things, so they've needed to make carbs out to be the bad guy. But there's no evidence at all backing that up.
@MikePTY
There's actually scientific study that proves carbs are bad for you. Unlike the 'fat is bad for you' hypothesis which has yet to proven, despite the billions of dollars spent on many many studies.
Studies on the carbs have to be self funded as the government won't fund them (Make too much money on the carb food industry and medicine to help with illness caused by carbs, to let it be known). Look them up. The documentary 'The Magic Pill' has a section that briefs it down for you. You can watch on Netflix. Low carb/keto prevents heart disease, diabetes, obesity, alzheimer's, improves autism, cures asthma and early cancer, increases life on late cancer, etc...
The comment by the author of that documentary, not study, that really suck with me is "why is it that the only animals that cannot regulate their body weight is man and any animal cared for by man". I have been LCHF ever since watching the Magic Pill.13 -
I would start with low carb first and see how it goes. Some, like me, find they feel better the lower their carbs are so the lower it further to ketogenic levels.
Unless there is a specific health issue that you need ketones for (such as a neurological or cognitive problem, or bad insulin resistance) then low carb might be enough for you to reach your health goals with.
This is what i would suggest too. Start with lowering your carbs until you feel comfortable with your diet. And even if you do end up in keto range, and feel the need for more carbs, realize its ok to eat more.2 -
Larkspur94 wrote: »What do you mean about "for your health"? Unless you have been recommended a diet like that for a specific reason by a doctor, there is nothing healthy about eating less carbs. Carbs have gotten a reputation as unhealthy because companies make billions of dollars a year selling low carb solutions to things, so they've needed to make carbs out to be the bad guy. But there's no evidence at all backing that up.
@MikePTY
There's actually scientific study that proves carbs are bad for you. Unlike the 'fat is bad for you' hypothesis which has yet to proven, despite the billions of dollars spent on many many studies.
Studies on the carbs have to be self funded as the government won't fund them (Make too much money on the carb food industry and medicine to help with illness caused by carbs, to let it be known). Look them up. The documentary 'The Magic Pill' has a section that briefs it down for you. You can watch on Netflix. Low carb/keto prevents heart disease, diabetes, obesity, alzheimer's, improves autism, cures asthma and early cancer, increases life on late cancer, etc...
The comment by the author of that documentary, not study, that really suck with me is "why is it that the only animals that cannot regulate their body weight is man and any animal cared for by man". I have been LCHF ever since watching the Magic Pill.
Its simple, wild animals dont have unlimited access to food. We are the only species that doesn't have to hunt for our own food. Look at 3rd world countries and its less of the problem. You can also compare populations of animals and see huge differences... Such as wild deer in the mountains of Alabama vs deer in rural areas. The ones is rural areas have a lot more fat; they also taste better due to the types of food that have access to.
And if you probably researched blue zones before the documentary, your probably be ultra high carb low fat since they are the longest living and healthiest countries in the world. But that is a whole other topic.16 -
Blue zones don't interest me but I am aware of them.9
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Blue zones don't interest me but I am aware of them.
This is confusing.
You know there are areas of the world where it is well documented that people live longer, healthier lives and we're identified the dietary and lifestyle patterns those people practice, but you aren't interested? Why, because they aren't eating low carbohydrate?
Why is "The Magic Pill" interesting, but blue zones aren't?13 -
https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2015/04/11/398325030/eating-to-break-100-longevity-diet-tips-from-the-blue-zones
Because Jane, it does not fit the narrative.11 -
L1zardQueen wrote: »https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2015/04/11/398325030/eating-to-break-100-longevity-diet-tips-from-the-blue-zones
Because Jane, it does not fit the narrative.
Yes, it's very perplexing to know that there are eating patterns that are clearly associated with reducing or eliminating most of the concerns that hardcore keto advocates claim to have, but they've generally either pretending the blue zones don't exist or are genuinely unaware of them. They're not as "interesting" as a documentary from a guy who thinks that sunscreen is poison.7 -
Larkspur94 wrote: »What do you mean about "for your health"? Unless you have been recommended a diet like that for a specific reason by a doctor, there is nothing healthy about eating less carbs. Carbs have gotten a reputation as unhealthy because companies make billions of dollars a year selling low carb solutions to things, so they've needed to make carbs out to be the bad guy. But there's no evidence at all backing that up.
@MikePTY
There's actually scientific study that proves carbs are bad for you. Unlike the 'fat is bad for you' hypothesis which has yet to proven, despite the billions of dollars spent on many many studies.
Studies on the carbs have to be self funded as the government won't fund them (Make too much money on the carb food industry and medicine to help with illness caused by carbs, to let it be known). Look them up. The documentary 'The Magic Pill' has a section that briefs it down for you. You can watch on Netflix. Low carb/keto prevents heart disease, diabetes, obesity, alzheimer's, improves autism, cures asthma and early cancer, increases life on late cancer, etc...
Here's what I don't understand. If these claims were actually true and backed by legitimate human-based scientific evidence, why wouldn't everyone be hopping on the keto train?
Or are the majority of us so dense/uneducated that we stubbornly choose to cling to our carbs even though they're apparently killing us?
This is the part that make no sense to me.12 -
Depending on the vegetables you choose, you can have really quite large quantities on keto. The recommended daily intake of vegetables (in my country, at least) is 400g. I consistently eat around 500g or 600g per day whilst staying well under my 20g carb allowance.
Ketogenic diets can be very effective for those trying to lose weight whilst dealing with metabolic syndrome, insulin resistance, type II diabetes, etc. (They also seem to be effective in curbing appetite which makes it easier for those who have been persistently hungry on other regimes to eat at a calorie deficit.) However, if these issues don't apply to you, I wouldn't stress about carb reduction too much.3 -
Anyway, OP, has any of the feedback been helpful? Any other thoughts/questions before we get off on a detour about some silly Netflix movie (there are huge numbers of Netflix flicks about nutrition and they tend to be extreme and contradict each other). I just hate it when people claim "carbs" are bad, when the evidence does not support that and as you noted in your first post, vegetables -- largely carbs -- are some of the healthiest options. Like foods that are high in fat and even protein, those high in carbs are quite variable. I happen to think low carbing can be helpful to some, though, and might well be worth experimenting with to see what carb level you prefer.7
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Anyway, OP, has any of the feedback been helpful? Any other thoughts/questions before we get off on a detour about some silly Netflix movie (there are huge numbers of Netflix flicks about nutrition and they tend to be extreme and contradict each other).
They're not colloquially known as Mockumentaries for nothing.
8 -
snickerscharlie wrote: »Larkspur94 wrote: »What do you mean about "for your health"? Unless you have been recommended a diet like that for a specific reason by a doctor, there is nothing healthy about eating less carbs. Carbs have gotten a reputation as unhealthy because companies make billions of dollars a year selling low carb solutions to things, so they've needed to make carbs out to be the bad guy. But there's no evidence at all backing that up.
@MikePTY
There's actually scientific study that proves carbs are bad for you. Unlike the 'fat is bad for you' hypothesis which has yet to proven, despite the billions of dollars spent on many many studies.
Studies on the carbs have to be self funded as the government won't fund them (Make too much money on the carb food industry and medicine to help with illness caused by carbs, to let it be known). Look them up. The documentary 'The Magic Pill' has a section that briefs it down for you. You can watch on Netflix. Low carb/keto prevents heart disease, diabetes, obesity, alzheimer's, improves autism, cures asthma and early cancer, increases life on late cancer, etc...
Here's what I don't understand. If these claims were actually true and backed by legitimate human-based scientific evidence, why wouldn't everyone be hopping on the keto train?
Or are the majority of us so dense/uneducated that we stubbornly choose to cling to our carbs even though they're apparently killing us?
This is the part that make no sense to me.
Cause the big bad food industry has us all addicted to the carbz and we have no free will when it comes to what we eat.
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MercifulRelease wrote: »Depending on the vegetables you choose, you can have really quite large quantities on keto. The recommended daily intake of vegetables (in my country, at least) is 400g. I consistently eat around 500g or 600g per day whilst staying well under my 20g carb allowance.
Ketogenic diets can be very effective for those trying to lose weight whilst dealing with metabolic syndrome, insulin resistance, type II diabetes, etc. (They also seem to be effective in curbing appetite which makes it easier for those who have been persistently hungry on other regimes to eat at a calorie deficit.) However, if these issues don't apply to you, I wouldn't stress about carb reduction too much.
Spinach is one of the lowest carbohydrate vegetables and 100 grams has 3.8 grams of carbohydrates. So eating 600 grams would be over 20 grams of carbohydrates. What vegetables are you eating 600 grams of while being "well under" 20 grams of carbohydrates?11 -
snickerscharlie wrote: »
Here's what I don't understand. If these claims were actually true and backed by legitimate human-based scientific evidence, why wouldn't everyone be hopping on the keto train?
Or are the majority of us so dense/uneducated that we stubbornly choose to cling to our carbs even though they're apparently killing us?
This is the part that make no sense to me.
But don't ya know, the big bad government, which is so full of moles that it has information leaks constantly about national security secrets and its innermost workings, is secretly engaging in a massive cover up to keep us addicted to carbs? And the only people who can set us free are people who a financial interest in promoting Ketogenic diets?8 -
Ok guys, lets get back om topic. If we want to battle the claims, we can move the portion to a new thread2
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I don't feel that all carbs are bad which is why I have a vegetable serving with my protein. There are carbs I consider bad like highly processed grains which I doubt people living in blue zones buy by box load. I choose to not be a vegetarian because I like meat. Blue zones don't interest me because there are so many variables to choose from it would be difficult to nail down the exact causality of of these pockets of longevity. Is it the water, the air, the local source of food, is it genetics and on and on.
I can't move to a blue zone so if is related to an environmental factor I can't benefit. If its genetic related that train left the station a long time ago. If it is diet related I have modified mine in a way that suits me and my goals. I also know that it is a healthier diet and lifestyle then I had before. The Magic Pill documentary is what started me down the path researching and ultimately choosing a low carb / high fat way of eating. It however is not the bible that I point to to justify my choice, it merely made me curious. Blue zones don't offend me so I think if someone wants to bring up the Magic Pill in a discussion titled "Keto Vs Low Carb" it shouldn't bother the Blue Zone folks.
As for some of the more abstract hypothesis like will keto or LCHF affect cancer, alzheimer's etc. I doubt we will ever know in my lifetime (even if I were in a blue zone). Aside from no one will probably ever fund it, there is just not enough data beyond anecdotal observation at this point.10 -
What’s the “carb food industry”? Carbohydrates are one of three major macronutrients and are present in Whole Foods like fruits, vegetables, grains, dairy, as well as many commercially prepared foods. It’s such a diverse group of foods I’m struggling to understand who the one agency who is profiting by keeping us all addicted. Is it Big Broccoli that is secretly behind all this?Larkspur94 wrote: »What do you mean about "for your health"? Unless you have been recommended a diet like that for a specific reason by a doctor, there is nothing healthy about eating less carbs. Carbs have gotten a reputation as unhealthy because companies make billions of dollars a year selling low carb solutions to things, so they've needed to make carbs out to be the bad guy. But there's no evidence at all backing that up.
@MikePTY
There's actually scientific study that proves carbs are bad for you. Unlike the 'fat is bad for you' hypothesis which has yet to proven, despite the billions of dollars spent on many many studies.
Studies on the carbs have to be self funded as the government won't fund them (Make too much money on the carb food industry and medicine to help with illness caused by carbs, to let it be known). Look them up. The documentary 'The Magic Pill' has a section that briefs it down for you. You can watch on Netflix. Low carb/keto prevents heart disease, diabetes, obesity, alzheimer's, improves autism, cures asthma and early cancer, increases life on late cancer, etc...
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