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BMI CONTROVERSY‼️🤬

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Replies

  • CSARdiver
    CSARdiver Posts: 6,252 Member
    johnslater461 wrote: »
    CSARdiver wrote: »
    cwolfman13 wrote: »
    WW1984 wrote: »
    Hey MFP Fam,

    Ok . . . We all know that the Body Mass index (BMI) is a screening tool that can indicate whether a person is underweight, healthy weight, excess weight, or obesity. If a person's BMI is outside of the healthy range, their health risks may increase significantly. But we’ve also heard experts say that "BMI is flawed".

    I’m 48 at a mere 4’ 10” and 116 lbs with a tiny frame (goal weight 100 lbs). The BMI chart says that I’m within my weight range of 88.5 - 119.6 (BMI = 24.24 as Normal). So if it’s flawed then what the H-E-double hockey stick are we to use other than just going by appearances, health exams, etc. ⁉️😫

    I wouldn't go so far as to say it is flawed...it is incomplete and doesn't tell the whole story. It is only one metric to gauge potential health risks in a population, not necessarily an individual. And it has nothing to do with aesthetics. I know people who are well within a healthy BMI range who are very much unhealthy and people who are just outside of a healthy range who are very fit and healthy.

    My usual maintenance weight is 180 Lbs which is about 5 Lbs overweight by BMI...my Dr. isn't particularly worried as I am not overly fat and maintain a healthy BF%, eat well, and exercise regularly...I'm just not super lean either. I'm trying to get down to 175 for summer purely for aesthetic reasons, not healthy reasons...we're probably getting a pool so I'll be shirtless a lot more often. I figure 175 will put me around 12% BF and I'll be right at the high end of the BMI range for my height.

    BMI isn't flawed.

    Application of BMI by insurance/corporate policies is flawed.

    This seems to be the key distinction.

    No, it really isn't. You just don't understand how actuarial analysis works.

    If you belong to an at risk group, you will pay a higher premium. Just as a driver under the age of 25 will pay a higher rate for car insurance


    If used as a first glance risk trigger which leads to additional analysis yes. If not, then the system is flawed. Of course when I say flawed I mean towards serving the interest of health and the consumer. In the sense of maximizing profits, then the system is working as intended.

    Does an individual with a low bodyfat %, but overweight BMI belong in a higher risk group?
  • mbaker566
    mbaker566 Posts: 11,233 Member
    hesn92 wrote: »
    Noreenmarie1234 wrote: »
    wmd1979 wrote: »
    Personally, I find that BMI is generally a good guideline for the majority of people, but I did just have a case yesterday where I was affected by my BMI. I scheduled an upcoming shoulder surgery for mid January, and when doing so, I was forced to also schedule a pre-op physical based solely on the fact that my BMI puts me slightly into the overweight range. If I was in the normal range I would not have had to pass a physical. I am 6'2" 197 lbs and my bodyfat % is sub 10%. I was aware that I am 3-4 lbs into the overweight category but it never bothered me until yesterday when my surgeons office insisted I schedule a physical based only on my BMI. I don't have a problem with BMI being used as a guideline for people, but I think that strictly enforcing these guidelines just like what happened to me yesterday is ridiculous. Doctors offices, and insurance companies do need to recognize that there will be outliers and need to have secondary measures in place in those cases(height to waist ratio or whatever). With that being said, I believe that most people who think they are outliers actually are not, and sometimes people need to be honest with themselves and realize that they are larger than they should be.

    I think BMI is far more accurate for women. I have rarely ever seen a women who was "overweight" yet still looked thin, but have seen plenty of muscular men who shouldn't be deemed overweight.

    I have. Unless she was lying to me to make me feel better lol :D We had our on-site biometric screenings done right after I returned from maternity leave and I said "aw man, I'm in the overweight category" and she said "me too". This girl is like, the typical super healthy fit girl. She was pretty muscular but not overly-so. She did have a little stomach pudge just like... almost every other woman ever, but she was pretty thin otherwise. I thought that was strange.

    if i were as muscular as i'd like to be for the aerial stuff i do, i would definitely be marked as overweight.
  • johnslater461
    johnslater461 Posts: 449 Member
    born_of_fire74 wrote: »
    CSARdiver wrote: »
    johnslater461 wrote: »
    CSARdiver wrote: »
    cwolfman13 wrote: »
    WW1984 wrote: »
    Hey MFP Fam,

    Ok . . . We all know that the Body Mass index (BMI) is a screening tool that can indicate whether a person is underweight, healthy weight, excess weight, or obesity. If a person's BMI is outside of the healthy range, their health risks may increase significantly. But we’ve also heard experts say that "BMI is flawed".

    I’m 48 at a mere 4’ 10” and 116 lbs with a tiny frame (goal weight 100 lbs). The BMI chart says that I’m within my weight range of 88.5 - 119.6 (BMI = 24.24 as Normal). So if it’s flawed then what the H-E-double hockey stick are we to use other than just going by appearances, health exams, etc. ⁉️😫

    I wouldn't go so far as to say it is flawed...it is incomplete and doesn't tell the whole story. It is only one metric to gauge potential health risks in a population, not necessarily an individual. And it has nothing to do with aesthetics. I know people who are well within a healthy BMI range who are very much unhealthy and people who are just outside of a healthy range who are very fit and healthy.

    My usual maintenance weight is 180 Lbs which is about 5 Lbs overweight by BMI...my Dr. isn't particularly worried as I am not overly fat and maintain a healthy BF%, eat well, and exercise regularly...I'm just not super lean either. I'm trying to get down to 175 for summer purely for aesthetic reasons, not healthy reasons...we're probably getting a pool so I'll be shirtless a lot more often. I figure 175 will put me around 12% BF and I'll be right at the high end of the BMI range for my height.

    BMI isn't flawed.

    Application of BMI by insurance/corporate policies is flawed.

    This seems to be the key distinction.

    No, it really isn't. You just don't understand how actuarial analysis works.

    If you belong to an at risk group, you will pay a higher premium. Just as a driver under the age of 25 will pay a higher rate for car insurance


    If used as a first glance risk trigger which leads to additional analysis yes. If not, then the system is flawed. Of course when I say flawed I mean towards serving the interest of health and the consumer. In the sense of maximizing profits, then the system is working as intended.

    Does an individual with a low bodyfat %, but overweight BMI belong in a higher risk group?

    I suppose such individuals might be comparable to drivers under 25 with spotless driving records. They are not a proven risk themselves but, statistically speaking, belong to a high risk group.

    Exactly.
    BMI is just one factor out of many used to assign risk.
  • aokoye
    aokoye Posts: 3,495 Member
    Sambo_fitness wrote: »
    For people that are athletic in structure, BMI can actually classify someone as overweight!!! There are several different kinds of tests that you can get done that more accurately measure body fat percentage. Skin fold test is one example. Do some research on your own! Big thing to ask yourself is: do you FEEL healthy and are you happy with your body? If so, look elsewhere for answers!

    It's funny you say that because the International Ski Federation tried to combat their ski jumping athletes being at unhealthy weights (specifically being underweight) by introducing a BMI rule. Here's a Reuters article about it, but googling "ski jumping BMI rule" nets a lot of results.
  • bisonpitcher
    bisonpitcher Posts: 519 Member
    I personally think body fat percentage is a better metric for overall health and fitness. A male who is muscular may be very fit but "overweight" at 10% body fat (or a woman at 18%). Conversely, some one with less muscle may be normal BMI, but have an abundance of body fat. That's why I have a body fat goal, more so than a goal weight.
  • Ed_Zilla
    Ed_Zilla Posts: 207 Member
    We all know that BMI, alone, is only a basic indicator, at best.

    Throw in waist to hip ratio, blood pressure, cholesterol, alcohol consumed, smoker or not, time spent moving (exercise), body fat measurements, resting heart rate, general mood, etc. and you have a much better picture.
  • ACanadian22
    ACanadian22 Posts: 377 Member
    Ed_Zilla wrote: »
    We all know that BMI, alone, is only a basic indicator, at best.

    Throw in waist to hip ratio, blood pressure, cholesterol, alcohol consumed, smoker or not, time spent moving (exercise), body fat measurements, resting heart rate, general mood, etc. and you have a much better picture.

    I must say, when I started my journey my resting BPM was 10 BPM more than now that I just hit normal bmi. It is still higher than most and scares me as heart attacks run in my family. I do cardio at least 90 minutes a day and my CO is in the excellent range, but still....high resting BPM.
    BMI is a good base....as is a smart watch. It is a help to keep you moving but don't let the number be your be all/end all.
  • Ed_Zilla
    Ed_Zilla Posts: 207 Member
    I found this website that, in addition to BMI, calculates your body-fat (using a tape measure - not calipers) and also your ideal weight (big range though) and quite a few other things if you are adventurous.

    https://www.calculator.net/

    I guess the goal would be to be in the healthy range for as many of these indicators as possible.
  • WW1984
    WW1984 Posts: 145 Member
    The information that you all have been posting is extremely useful. I’ve been sooooo obsessed with lowering my BMI that at one time, I was only consuming 438 calories per day in order to quickly lower my BMI from “27.59 kg/m2 (Overweight)” to what it is now at “23.45 kg/m2 (Normal)”. My highest BMI has been “30.51 kg/m2 (Obese Class I)” at age 46, 4’ 11” and 146 lbs.
  • KrazyKrissyy
    KrazyKrissyy Posts: 322 Member
    Get a DEXA scan. They're really helpful!
  • paperpudding
    paperpudding Posts: 9,278 Member
    KrazyKrissyy wrote: »
    Get a DEXA scan. They're really helpful!

    yes they may be for those who want that info.

    For most people BMI is a good guide and they can get a good idea of their healthy weight range without getting a DEXA

  • Ed_Zilla
    Ed_Zilla Posts: 207 Member
    edited January 2019
    I found a cool visualizer website. Enter your height/weight M/F...and see what the computer visualizer says you look like. It is 3D so you can rotate the visualizer around. I had a fun time with this making me taller, shorter, lighter, heavier :-)

    http://www.bmivisualizer.com/

    and just for fun, here are examples of body fat percentages

    kaazn5d7u7w3.jpg
  • aokoye
    aokoye Posts: 3,495 Member
    Ed_Zilla wrote: »
    We all know that BMI, alone, is only a basic indicator, at best.

    Throw in waist to hip ratio, blood pressure, cholesterol, alcohol consumed, smoker or not, time spent moving (exercise), body fat measurements, resting heart rate, general mood, etc. and you have a much better picture.

    Are you talking about physical health more broadly or about being overweight/obese?

    In terms of the latter, the waist hip ratio and fat percentage, ok but the rest of those? General mood isn't a great indicator of physical health (it is a good indicator of mental health, but that's not what we're talking about from what I can tell). Yes there are some conditions that can cause symptoms of depression, but I doubt the majority of people who report having depression have those symptoms that can be traced to a different condition.

    In terms of being at a healthy weight, ones blood pressure and cholesterol can both be in a normal/healthy range while that person is still overweight (my blood pressure was 112/72 on Thursday - I'm still overweight), they can also be in an unhealthy range while someone is at a healthy weight. Resting heart rate has a lot to do with how much cardio one does (mine hovers around the high 50s/low 60s). And then alcohol consumption, smoking, and lets throw in drug use don't necessarily have anything to do with weight (health yes).

    Again, I'm not sure if you're talking about physical health more broadly or whether or not someone is overweight. It wasn't especially clear to me. I could see both being true. If we're talking about general physical health I agree with most of what you've said. The exception, of course, being "general mood" - one can be physically healthy, fit, and a healthy weight, and still have crippling mental health issues.
  • Noreenmarie1234
    Noreenmarie1234 Posts: 7,492 Member
    edited January 2019
    aokoye wrote: »
    Noreenmarie1234 wrote: »
    wmd1979 wrote: »
    Personally, I find that BMI is generally a good guideline for the majority of people, but I did just have a case yesterday where I was affected by my BMI. I scheduled an upcoming shoulder surgery for mid January, and when doing so, I was forced to also schedule a pre-op physical based solely on the fact that my BMI puts me slightly into the overweight range. If I was in the normal range I would not have had to pass a physical. I am 6'2" 197 lbs and my bodyfat % is sub 10%. I was aware that I am 3-4 lbs into the overweight category but it never bothered me until yesterday when my surgeons office insisted I schedule a physical based only on my BMI. I don't have a problem with BMI being used as a guideline for people, but I think that strictly enforcing these guidelines just like what happened to me yesterday is ridiculous. Doctors offices, and insurance companies do need to recognize that there will be outliers and need to have secondary measures in place in those cases(height to waist ratio or whatever). With that being said, I believe that most people who think they are outliers actually are not, and sometimes people need to be honest with themselves and realize that they are larger than they should be.

    I think BMI is far more accurate for women. I have rarely ever seen a women who was "overweight" yet still looked thin, but have seen plenty of muscular men who shouldn't be deemed overweight.

    How do you know that they were deemed overweight? Did you have their height and weight?

    Yes, I work in the medical field so I take a lot of people's heights and weights of various age groups.
  • Noreenmarie1234
    Noreenmarie1234 Posts: 7,492 Member
    edited January 2019
    kshama2001 wrote: »
    Noreenmarie1234 wrote: »
    wmd1979 wrote: »
    Personally, I find that BMI is generally a good guideline for the majority of people, but I did just have a case yesterday where I was affected by my BMI. I scheduled an upcoming shoulder surgery for mid January, and when doing so, I was forced to also schedule a pre-op physical based solely on the fact that my BMI puts me slightly into the overweight range. If I was in the normal range I would not have had to pass a physical. I am 6'2" 197 lbs and my bodyfat % is sub 10%. I was aware that I am 3-4 lbs into the overweight category but it never bothered me until yesterday when my surgeons office insisted I schedule a physical based only on my BMI. I don't have a problem with BMI being used as a guideline for people, but I think that strictly enforcing these guidelines just like what happened to me yesterday is ridiculous. Doctors offices, and insurance companies do need to recognize that there will be outliers and need to have secondary measures in place in those cases(height to waist ratio or whatever). With that being said, I believe that most people who think they are outliers actually are not, and sometimes people need to be honest with themselves and realize that they are larger than they should be.

    I think BMI is far more accurate for women. I have rarely ever seen a women who was "overweight" yet still looked thin, but have seen plenty of muscular men who shouldn't be deemed overweight.

    Did you mean "thin" or something more like "healthy and fit"? I wouldn't describe the muscular men I knew in the USAF who were above BMI yet passed the tape or dunk tests as "thin" - why does "thin" need to be the ideal for women?

    I mean healthy and fit. For me thin means healthy and fit and in the normal BMI range. I see anyone in the healthy BMI range as thin, healthy and fit.

    I don't mean "skinny" when I say thin, I mean fit and healthy looking, as in not overweight or fat. Maybe I use thin in a different way than others do. I wouldn't call someone underweight thin, I would say "skinny/unhealthy". Didn't mean to say anything saying women should be skinny I didn't mean to imply that!

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