Too much sugar... how harmful?

mrmagee3

The GDA for 2000 cals a day is 90g of sugar so MFP sets sugar quite low ratio wise. I customised my settings and don't sweat it when I go over as long as the vast majority of that is natural sugars.

I disagree with above poster about 'ignoring' sodium though because MFP has set that way too high IMO. Most lit I read recommends never going over 2400mg on a 2000 cal/day diet (between 1500-2400 is 'healthy') whereas MFP sets to 2500 and I see people going over all the time.

What reasons would there be for tracking sodium in a healthy individual?

The obvious one is "to ensure that you're getting it", given that it's an essential nutrient.

I honestly don't know anyone in today's world that is sodium deficient.
If you are then you aren't a healthy individual.

That's a fallacy. You're not unhealthy until after you stop taking in sodium, hence the need to make sure you get it.

As for not knowing people who are sodium deficient or not, the cry over sodium as a cause of high blood pressure/heart disease has caused a lot of people to eat low-sodium everything. As evidenced by this thread, people are still afraid of eating "too much" sodium. The conversation should shift from "you should lower sodium" to "make sure you're eating at least the sodium you need, otherwise don't worry about it".

We get tons of "am I eating too much sodium!?" threads because MFP sets an upper bound on intake -- one that is completely unnecessary. However, given that sodium itself is necessary, it should still be considered in terms of designing a health diet -- but from the lower bound, not the higher one.

Valid. I will change my statement to "You don't need to track sodium or eat low sodium anything. Check it every once in awhile to make sure you're getting enough."

Holy crap, we just came to an agreement on MFP. I'm going to go play the lottery today. :laugh: Cheers.

scottaworley

The GDA for 2000 cals a day is 90g of sugar so MFP sets sugar quite low ratio wise. I customised my settings and don't sweat it when I go over as long as the vast majority of that is natural sugars.

I disagree with above poster about 'ignoring' sodium though because MFP has set that way too high IMO. Most lit I read recommends never going over 2400mg on a 2000 cal/day diet (between 1500-2400 is 'healthy') whereas MFP sets to 2500 and I see people going over all the time.

What reasons would there be for tracking sodium in a healthy individual?

The obvious one is "to ensure that you're getting it", given that it's an essential nutrient.

I honestly don't know anyone in today's world that is sodium deficient.
If you are then you aren't a healthy individual.

That's a fallacy. You're not unhealthy until after you stop taking in sodium, hence the need to make sure you get it.

As for not knowing people who are sodium deficient or not, the cry over sodium as a cause of high blood pressure/heart disease has caused a lot of people to eat low-sodium everything. As evidenced by this thread, people are still afraid of eating "too much" sodium. The conversation should shift from "you should lower sodium" to "make sure you're eating at least the sodium you need, otherwise don't worry about it".

We get tons of "am I eating too much sodium!?" threads because MFP sets an upper bound on intake -- one that is completely unnecessary. However, given that sodium itself is necessary, it should still be considered in terms of designing a health diet -- but from the lower bound, not the higher one.

Valid. I will change my statement to "You don't need to track sodium or eat low sodium anything. Check it every once in awhile to make sure you're getting enough."

Holy crap, we just came to an agreement on MFP. I'm going to go play the lottery today. :laugh: Cheers.

There's rational people on the internet?
WUTTTTT

Bry_Fitness70

I was sometimes tripling my recommended sugar allowance when I first started tracking it in May. I cut down on the sugary power drinks, protein bars, and other refined sugars, and most other things remaining constant, dropped 10 lbs (175 to 165, so it wasn’t “easy lbs”). Also, my run times have gradually improved. I don’t worry about unrefined sugar, mostly just added sugar. It is a daily challenge to keep it around the recommended levels, sugar is everywhere!

I’m surprised that people would ignore cholesterol, sodium, sugar, etc. until they have a medical reason. Seriously, you would wait until a doctor told you to lower your sodium or sugar before you’d start paying attention to it? Good luck with that.

Bry_Fitness70

edit: a little too big for this message board, you can find the image here:

http://images.onlinenursingprograms.com.s3.amazonaws.com/nursing-your-sweet-tooth.jpg

mrmagee3

I was sometimes tripling my recommended sugar allowance when I first started tracking it in May. I cut down on the sugary power drinks, protein bars, and other refined sugars, and most other things remaining constant, dropped 10 lbs (175 to 165, so it wasn’t “easy lbs”). Also, my run times have gradually improved. I don’t worry about unrefined sugar, mostly just added sugar. It is a daily challenge to keep it around the recommended levels, sugar is everywhere!

I’m surprised that people would ignore cholesterol, sodium, sugar, etc. until they have a medical reason. Seriously, you would wait until a doctor told you to lower your sodium or sugar before you’d start paying attention to it? Good luck with that.

No, it's simply that dietary cholesterol and sodium intake don't correlate very well to negative health events, CVD, or all-cause mortality.

When you're diabetic, obviously sugar intake needs to be managed. Whether or not sugar intake causes diabetes, however, is not proven.

Bry_Fitness70

1) The American Heart Association has concluded that there is a correlation between high sodium diets and CVD and hypertension
2) The American Diabetes Association concludes that sugar consumption highly correlates with type 2 diabetes
3) I have family members (including my dad) that have CVD, hypertension, and are pre-diabetic. Their physicians also agree with the AHA and ADA that it was critical that they reduce the sodium and sugar in their diets. My dad went on a low sugar / low sodium diet and is no longer pre-diabetic and his blood pressure has returned to normal.

So forgive me if I don’t buy that high sodium and high sugar diets don’t potentially lead to detrimental health effects in most people - I tend to trust the opinions of the AHA, ADA, and MDs when it comes to this one.

scottaworley

1) The American Heart Association has concluded that there is a correlation between high sodium diets and CVD and hypertension
2) The American Diabetes Association concludes that sugar consumption highly correlates with type 2 diabetes
3) I have family members (including my dad) that have CVD, hypertension, and are pre-diabetic. Their physicians also agree with the AHA and ADA that it was critical that they reduce the sodium and sugar in their diets. My dad went on a low sugar / low sodium diet and is no longer pre-diabetic and his blood pressure has returned to normal.

So forgive me if I don’t buy that high sodium and high sugar diets don’t potentially lead to detrimental health effects in most people - I tend to trust the opinions of the AHA, ADA, and MDs when it comes to this one.

I don't think anyone is saying EAT JUST SUGAR.
The thing is, if you are meeting your macros, you should not have to worry about things like sugar.
Further, sodium has been shown to have no effect on blood pressure except when people already have high blood pressure.
You have a dated view of sugar and sodium.

Bry_Fitness70

1) The American Heart Association has concluded that there is a correlation between high sodium diets and CVD and hypertension
2) The American Diabetes Association concludes that sugar consumption highly correlates with type 2 diabetes
3) I have family members (including my dad) that have CVD, hypertension, and are pre-diabetic. Their physicians also agree with the AHA and ADA that it was critical that they reduce the sodium and sugar in their diets. My dad went on a low sugar / low sodium diet and is no longer pre-diabetic and his blood pressure has returned to normal.

So forgive me if I don’t buy that high sodium and high sugar diets don’t potentially lead to detrimental health effects in most people - I tend to trust the opinions of the AHA, ADA, and MDs when it comes to this one.

I don't think anyone is saying EAT JUST SUGAR.
The thing is, if you are meeting your macros, you should not have to worry about things like sugar.
Further, sodium has been shown to have no effect on blood pressure except when people already have high blood pressure.
You have a dated view of sugar and sodium.

My "dated view" of sugar and sodium comes directly from the AHA, ADA, and medical professionals. Forgive me if trust those sources more than message board professionals..Feel free to review CURRENT data found on the AHA & ADA websites, it may be instructive.

theoriginaljayne

MFP's sugar limit is based on recommended limits for added sugars (from bread, fruit-flavored yogurt, soda, etc). However, seeing as natural sugars (from fruits and vegetables) get included your daily total, it's normal to go over.

scottaworley

1) http://www.medicaldaily.com/cdc-salt-intake-guidelines-were-wrong-no-great-benefit-reducing-dietary-salt-247626 - "The committee found no consistent evidence to support an association between sodium intake and either a beneficial or adverse effect on most health outcomes." - Peer reviewed study based on current information.
2) The ADA makes recommendations for people with diabetes. Information that they give should not be used to inform the diet of a healthy adult.
3) I tend to trust PhDs who do actual research and the dieticians who study them more than general physicians who have little nutritional training, but you're free to trust whomever you like.
4) If you're eating a balanced deficit diet focused on macros and fiber (what 90% of people here subscribe to) then you are not eating too much over the recommended 40g of sugar per day.

AbsoluteNG

1) The American Heart Association has concluded that there is a correlation between high sodium diets and CVD and hypertension
2) The American Diabetes Association concludes that sugar consumption highly correlates with type 2 diabetes
3) I have family members (including my dad) that have CVD, hypertension, and are pre-diabetic. Their physicians also agree with the AHA and ADA that it was critical that they reduce the sodium and sugar in their diets. My dad went on a low sugar / low sodium diet and is no longer pre-diabetic and his blood pressure has returned to normal.

So forgive me if I don’t buy that high sodium and high sugar diets don’t potentially lead to detrimental health effects in most people - I tend to trust the opinions of the AHA, ADA, and MDs when it comes to this one.

I don't think anyone is saying EAT JUST SUGAR.
The thing is, if you are meeting your macros, you should not have to worry about things like sugar.
Further, sodium has been shown to have no effect on blood pressure except when people already have high blood pressure.
You have a dated view of sugar and sodium.

My "dated view" of sugar and sodium comes directly from the AHA, ADA, and medical professionals. Forgive me if trust those sources more than message board professionals..Feel free to review CURRENT data found on the AHA & ADA websites, it may be instructive.

Interesting! I've only ever looked at research concerning the reversal of Type 2 diabetes, haven't tried to search for any papers on sugar driving diabetes. Do you have a link maybe? I'd like to find the actual paper to see what's really going on.

Edit: Found it Looks complicated but going to try and understand it.

mrmagee3

1) The American Heart Association has concluded that there is a correlation between high sodium diets and CVD and hypertension
2) The American Diabetes Association concludes that sugar consumption highly correlates with type 2 diabetes
3) I have family members (including my dad) that have CVD, hypertension, and are pre-diabetic. Their physicians also agree with the AHA and ADA that it was critical that they reduce the sodium and sugar in their diets. My dad went on a low sugar / low sodium diet and is no longer pre-diabetic and his blood pressure has returned to normal.

So forgive me if I don’t buy that high sodium and high sugar diets don’t potentially lead to detrimental health effects in most people - I tend to trust the opinions of the AHA, ADA, and MDs when it comes to this one.

You can't buy it, because I'm not selling anything. I don't particularly care what you do, specifically.

The problem is that the AHA and ADA are as much political organizations as they are health-focused organizations. You cannot expect them to be flexible enough to respond immediately to novel science, nor should you. Unfortunately, given that we have based a huge amount of public health policy on their recommendations, they're also very slow to reposition themselves in the face of evidence that flies in the face of their public recommendations. Especially in the case of something like sodium -- eating their recommendation (2400mg a day, I believe) is not harmful, so their recommendation is still somewhat valid, even if the related inference (that over 2400/day is harmful) is not.

Your primary care physician likely took one or two nutrition classes, back when they were in med school. The nutrition classes likely used books that were a couple years old then, and most physicians are likely not ravenously digesting novel science. They'll get their recommendations from the AHA. So the 2,400mg sodium myth propogates.

The ADA is the organization that recommends diabetics eat 40-60g of carbs per meal for blood sugar control. That alone should tell you something.

Bry_Fitness70

1) The American Heart Association has concluded that there is a correlation between high sodium diets and CVD and hypertension
2) The American Diabetes Association concludes that sugar consumption highly correlates with type 2 diabetes
3) I have family members (including my dad) that have CVD, hypertension, and are pre-diabetic. Their physicians also agree with the AHA and ADA that it was critical that they reduce the sodium and sugar in their diets. My dad went on a low sugar / low sodium diet and is no longer pre-diabetic and his blood pressure has returned to normal.

So forgive me if I don’t buy that high sodium and high sugar diets don’t potentially lead to detrimental health effects in most people - I tend to trust the opinions of the AHA, ADA, and MDs when it comes to this one.

You can't buy it, because I'm not selling anything. I don't particularly care what you do, specifically.

The problem is that the AHA and ADA are as much political organizations as they are health-focused organizations. You cannot expect them to be flexible enough to respond immediately to novel science, nor should you. Unfortunately, given that we have based a huge amount of public health policy on their recommendations, they're also very slow to reposition themselves in the face of evidence that flies in the face of their public recommendations. Especially in the case of something like sodium -- eating their recommendation (2400mg a day, I believe) is not harmful, so their recommendation is still somewhat valid, even if the related inference (that over 2400/day is harmful) is not.

Your primary care physician likely took one or two nutrition classes, back when they were in med school. The nutrition classes likely used books that were a couple years old then, and most physicians are likely not ravenously digesting novel science. They'll get their recommendations from the AHA. So the 2,400mg sodium myth propogates.

The ADA is the organization that recommends diabetics eat 40-60g of carbs per meal for blood sugar control. That alone should tell you something.

That settles it, I'm firing my doctor who went to medical school and spent thousands of hours practicing medicine, and I'm getting my health advice solely from anonymous users on internet message boards.

Ryk125

If you are in a deficit then nothing is fattening, ice cream included.

Absolutely true. Any calorie deficit means you will lose weight, there is no argument about that.

I just believe that all calories are not created equal, and I'm my own worst Diet Nazi.

mrmagee3

That settles it, I'm firing my doctor who went to medical school and spent thousands of hours practicing medicine, and I'm getting my health advice solely from anonymous users on internet message boards.

The Cochrane Collaboration has repeatedly found no evidence of mortality benefit in low-salt diets. This might be problematic for you, because it's staffed by Doctors doing actual research, who also went to medical school, and have spent thousands of hours practicing medicine.

I'm not giving you any advice. Continue to do whatever it is makes you happy. Luckily, what makes you happy can also be completely wrong!

Bry_Fitness70

That settles it, I'm firing my doctor who went to medical school and spent thousands of hours practicing medicine, and I'm getting my health advice solely from anonymous users on internet message boards.

The Cochrane Collaboration has repeatedly found no evidence of mortality benefit in low-salt diets. This might be problematic for you, because it's staffed by Doctors doing actual research, who also went to medical school, and have spent thousands of hours practicing medicine.

I'm not giving you any advice. Continue to do whatever it is makes you happy. Luckily, what makes you happy can also be completely wrong!

Its not a happiness issue. There is no down side to going low sodium - so therefore, I attempt to control my sodium. If others want to consume additional sodium, go for it.

Chadomaniac

Sugar = carbs = sugar = carbs = GOOD

scottaworley

That settles it, I'm firing my doctor who went to medical school and spent thousands of hours practicing medicine, and I'm getting my health advice solely from anonymous users on internet message boards.

The Cochrane Collaboration has repeatedly found no evidence of mortality benefit in low-salt diets. This might be problematic for you, because it's staffed by Doctors doing actual research, who also went to medical school, and have spent thousands of hours practicing medicine.

I'm not giving you any advice. Continue to do whatever it is makes you happy. Luckily, what makes you happy can also be completely wrong!

Its not a happiness issue. There is no down side to going low sodium - so therefore, I attempt to control my sodium. If others want to consume additional sodium, go for it.

Sodium is a necessary electrolyte. There is a downside to consuming too little sodium - that downside is death. (I'm being dramatic, but seriously.)

mrmagee3

Its not a happiness issue. There is no down side to going low sodium - so therefore, I attempt to control my sodium. If others want to consume additional sodium, go for it.

There is a measurable downside to going low sodium -- electrolyte imbalance, a host of organ problems, and in extreme cases, death. Sodium is essential. From a public health policy, we currently focus on upper bounds -- given that research doesn't support the position that a reasonable upper bound actually promotes health, and that the focus on the upper bound can cause some people to eat below the medically justified lower bound, our policy should change to focus on ensuring that people eat at least the lower bound.

WendyTerry420

How harmful is it if you go over on your MFP sugar limit? My limit is 32g and I have gone over by 23g! I have done my exercise for the day (380 cal burn walking 5mph for 40 mins), but it only knocks off calories. How do I get rid of the excess sugar before it gets stored as fat and am I panicking over nothing?? I don't usually go over. :frown:

Sugar is only "harmful" if you are eating so much that you aren't taking in adequate protein and fats, or if it is causing you to go over your calorie goal.