Keto depression
Replies
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MichelleSilverleaf wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »MichelleSilverleaf wrote: »
Would I be correct in 'assuming' you have not done Keto yet?
https://gutmicrobiotaforhealth.com/en/about-gut-microbiota-info/
When we move to the Keto WOE we are feeding our gut microbiota differently so the shift in population can lead to a die off of the more health negative microbiota leading to a pronounced short term detoxing for some of us for a few weeks.
I don't need to do keto to know that's not how it works. And you don't exactly have a reputation of sharing factual information, either.
While you do not understand the detox part when going keto that often occurs that is fine as long others do understand that are trying Keto for the first time.27 -
Change in your lifestyle is by definition stressful. It's my unscientific opinion that changing mood may be a natural response to the added stress that comes from changing the way you're eating. I don't see it as being abnormal, although I didn't experience exactly the same when I started keto.
For me, it was the repeated dream of falling through a hundred foot thick rainbow layer cake with my mouth open, or a sudden fight-or-flight sensation while I briefly considered stealing a cracker from a baby for the carbs.7 -
I'd also be depressed if I was on a diet where carbs are seen as the enemy🤔🤐22
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GaleHawkins wrote: »MichelleSilverleaf wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »MichelleSilverleaf wrote: »
Would I be correct in 'assuming' you have not done Keto yet?
https://gutmicrobiotaforhealth.com/en/about-gut-microbiota-info/
When we move to the Keto WOE we are feeding our gut microbiota differently so the shift in population can lead to a die off of the more health negative microbiota leading to a pronounced short term detoxing for some of us for a few weeks.
I don't need to do keto to know that's not how it works. And you don't exactly have a reputation of sharing factual information, either.
While you do not understand the detox part when going keto that often occurs that is fine as long others do understand that are trying Keto for the first time.
She understands a considerable amount more about keto than you do. Our liver and kidneys do a great job of detoxing and if they don't you need an emergency room rather than keto. Those that are trying to understand keto need to be told facts rather than woo.17 -
I have been on keto for 6 days now. It is my first time. I did already reach moderate ketosis today. I do not have cravings but i did get headaches and i have felt very tired the past few days but today was my first day where i felt energized. I have been on low carbs before, around 50g per day. 2 years ago and it took me 3 weeks to get over the cravings. I was living for the next meal. It is different this time. I am going for 20g max. Neither time did i feel depressed. I think it would be worth trying to do maybe a new activity or go out with friend to see if it gets a little better. You can always rise carbs a little but personally, i would wait a little because of the effort it takes to get in ketosis. You can also consult a doctor maybe have a blood test.1
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My guess is low electrolytes too.
When you cut carbs you lose water and electrolytes in glycogen and because insulin falls (which help control water and electrolyte retention). Most keto'ers need at least 3000-5000+ mg of sodium a day to replace what you've lost. If not, the most common symptoms are fatigue, moodiness, headaches, stomach upset, BM issues, muscle weakness and spasms.
There is 2300 mg of sodium in 1 tsp of salt. I would try half a teaspoon of salt twice a day with water, plus liberally salting your food, as soon as possible. If that is the issue, it could resolve within hours.
It is possible that keto is causing it, or it is completely unrelated, but my guess is low sodium. Get more. It can't hurt unless you have kidney disease.
Good luck.16 -
FWIW, neither the Journal of the International Society of Sports Nutrition nor pubmed have even ONE article that includes both "detox" and "keto" so there's a big clue. Actually, JISSN doesn't have a single article with "detox" included in it, either...hint, hint.
The dude who owns my gym and is a competitive bodybuilder has also written a couple books on keto (both of which I have read) and runs a separate business, "Ketogenic Performance Initiative" and not a single mention of "detox" there either. Hmmm...yeah.
So when you have actual PhD's who have published evidence-based, peer-reviewed scientific articles and you also have boots-on-the-ground hardcore adherents agreeing on something...but *this one guy on MFP* says something else...mmmkay.13 -
Depression was the main reason I stopped my keto trial prematurely. I was planning to give it a try for 2 months but I had to cut it short after week 3. It was so bad I was getting suicidal thoughts, which is very unlike me. It wasn't "sugar withdrawal" because I go weeks without sugar spontaneously sometimes when non-sugary foods seem more attractive to me. It also wasn't from lack of coping skills or using food to self-comfort. It may absolutely be the case for some people, but that wasn't what went wrong for me. No amount of comfort food deprivation would ever lead to suicidal thoughts, it's that unbelievably uncharacteristic for me. My brain chemistry may be wonky and sensitive to certain changes, so this may not be everyone's experience, but it was mine, so I quit the diet. It had the same effect on me as a drug that is used to help quit smoking had, and it is known to mess with brain chemistry. That's why I suspect this was involved.
I tried it again at a later date, about 2 years later, thinking it may have been coincidental and surely enough, I started feeling really down by week 2. I stopped it right away because I didn't want it to get worse.21 -
I want to thank everyone for your replies. Reading your posts made me happy! It feels nice to have so much support and people who understand. I'm considering to up my intake of carbs slightly and see what happens, maybe give it another 2 weeks. You guys are the best!!! Thank you all!13
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Depending on how bad it was I would make sure you're taking a multivitamin if you're not and make sure you're taking vitamin D if you're not. If you're already doing those things and you still feel this way then first you do need to talk to your doctor about it and if you think it's the way of eating that's changed it and you need to change it back for now. It just not worth it5
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Teabythesea_ wrote: »I may be alone in thinking this but I would not try to “tough it out” or wait and see if it gets better, especially if you’re just doing keto to lose weight. Having depression and anxiety myself it’s certainly not a road I would want to continue down if I had the option. If a diet change solves the problem then that is fantastic. If not, then you can move on to find the actual culprit and seek help for it. The sooner you figure out the cause or get help in treating it if no cause can be found, the better.
This is the most sensible response so far. Very few people actually need to cut carbs medically. Unless you've been directed to do so by your physician, then stop. See if adding the carbs back in makes you feel better. If it does, then keto is not worth the effort for you - find another way to your deficit. If it doesn't make you feel better, then see your doctor and discuss this with him/her.15 -
I want to thank everyone for your replies. Reading your posts made me happy! It feels nice to have so much support and people who understand. I'm considering to up my intake of carbs slightly and see what happens, maybe give it another 2 weeks. You guys are the best!!! Thank you all!
I have heard of a some experiencing this. Diet change can wonk up your hormone balance.
Whether this persists is a YMMV.
If you're pursuing keto because higher carb foods are the foods that you tend or overeat, and/or you'd like to improve blood sugar levels, you can still get ample benefit by just doing low-carb (which can be anywhere from just over 50g to 120g.) I recommend 75-100g, which gives you more wiggle room but can still help you stay mindful of foods you tend to overconsume.
If adding back some carbs still does not help, weight loss still works via exercising moderation with all foods. All we need to lose weight at the base of it is to create a calorie deficit in some way.
HTH.
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hippysprout wrote: »Teabythesea_ wrote: »I may be alone in thinking this but I would not try to “tough it out” or wait and see if it gets better, especially if you’re just doing keto to lose weight. Having depression and anxiety myself it’s certainly not a road I would want to continue down if I had the option. If a diet change solves the problem then that is fantastic. If not, then you can move on to find the actual culprit and seek help for it. The sooner you figure out the cause or get help in treating it if no cause can be found, the better.
This is the most sensible response so far. Very few people actually need to cut carbs medically. Unless you've been directed to do so by your physician, then stop. See if adding the carbs back in makes you feel better. If it does, then keto is not worth the effort for you - find another way to your deficit. If it doesn't make you feel better, then see your doctor and discuss this with him/her.
I’m really not sure why your post got woo’ed... I have a feeling the individuals encouraging OP to put this way of eating above their mental health despite its lack of health benefits for the average, healthy individual have not endured the effects of ignoring signs of declining mental wellness. Why anyone would want to commit to a way of eating that results in such side effects when it’s not necessary to lose weight is beyond me.13 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »MichelleSilverleaf wrote: »
Would I be correct in 'assuming' you have not done Keto yet?
https://gutmicrobiotaforhealth.com/en/about-gut-microbiota-info/
When we move to the Keto WOE we are feeding our gut microbiota differently so the shift in population can lead to a die off of the more health negative microbiota leading to a pronounced short term detoxing for some of us for a few weeks.
Gut microbiome adaptation can happen with some kinds of significant changes in food intake, and isn't always Big Fun, but this is not "detox", it's "gut microbiome adaptation".
Research on the gut microbiome is still in its infancy, far from the point where a diverse population of gut bugs can be neatly herded into "health negative" and "health positive".
I have nothing against keto, for those it suits. That said, it would seem very odd to me, evolutionarily speaking, if the macronutrient composition of the diet common in the blue zones - where reportedly people reportedly thrive to longevity eating lots of carbs - results in "health negative microbiota".
The link you posted in no way supports a "health negative gut microbiome die-off" thesis, BTW. I'm a little surprised there isn't such a site: I think the alt-health sites are desperate to find a quasi-scientific hook to hang their "detox" nonsense on.13 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »MichelleSilverleaf wrote: »
Would I be correct in 'assuming' you have not done Keto yet?
https://gutmicrobiotaforhealth.com/en/about-gut-microbiota-info/
When we move to the Keto WOE we are feeding our gut microbiota differently so the shift in population can lead to a die off of the more health negative microbiota leading to a pronounced short term detoxing for some of us for a few weeks.
Your gut microbiome likely will change, especially if you eat very different foods. (When I tried keto I ate largely the same foods, just without the potatoes, oats, fruit, and legumes I usually eat, and I ate more of other foods as a result).
Your mistake is in thinking that the microbiome needed to digest those foods are somehow health negative.
Here's an interesting piece: https://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/19/magazine/say-hello-to-the-100-trillion-bacteria-that-make-up-your-microbiome.html
If anything, it seems likely that the microbiome would become less diverse, which is probably not good. But there are huge differences between how people can eat on keto, some might prioritize lots of vegetables and fish, some might eat tons of McD's, but without the bun.
I generally think the microbiome is something worth considering, but as a possible corrective, I think this is also worth reading: https://www.motherjones.com/environment/2014/10/microbiome-health-gut-bacteria/8 -
Here is a Q&A on how dieting/ changing macronutrient ratios can lead to increased depression through modification of serotonin levels.
https://bodyrecomposition.com/nutrition/carbohydrate-intake-and-depression-qa.html/6 -
Lillymoo01 wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »MichelleSilverleaf wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »MichelleSilverleaf wrote: »
Would I be correct in 'assuming' you have not done Keto yet?
https://gutmicrobiotaforhealth.com/en/about-gut-microbiota-info/
When we move to the Keto WOE we are feeding our gut microbiota differently so the shift in population can lead to a die off of the more health negative microbiota leading to a pronounced short term detoxing for some of us for a few weeks.
I don't need to do keto to know that's not how it works. And you don't exactly have a reputation of sharing factual information, either.
While you do not understand the detox part when going keto that often occurs that is fine as long others do understand that are trying Keto for the first time.
She understands a considerable amount more about keto than you do. Our liver and kidneys do a great job of detoxing and if they don't you need an emergency room rather than keto. Those that are trying to understand keto need to be told facts rather than woo.
Yes, and she also understands that carbs are not a toxin. The idea that the whole broad category of foods containing carbs = toxin is just mind-boggling. 2019, what a year!11 -
Here is a Q&A on how dieting/ changing macronutrient ratios can lead to increased depression through modification of serotonin levels.
https://bodyrecomposition.com/nutrition/carbohydrate-intake-and-depression-qa.html/
Which reminds me that one thing that has been found consistently with keto is that it tends to raise cortisol. I wonder if that could lead to the kinds of feelings OP reported, at least in some people? I would think it would be more likely to cause anxiety, but wouldn't rule it out.4 -
Lillymoo01 wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »MichelleSilverleaf wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »MichelleSilverleaf wrote: »
Would I be correct in 'assuming' you have not done Keto yet?
https://gutmicrobiotaforhealth.com/en/about-gut-microbiota-info/
When we move to the Keto WOE we are feeding our gut microbiota differently so the shift in population can lead to a die off of the more health negative microbiota leading to a pronounced short term detoxing for some of us for a few weeks.
I don't need to do keto to know that's not how it works. And you don't exactly have a reputation of sharing factual information, either.
While you do not understand the detox part when going keto that often occurs that is fine as long others do understand that are trying Keto for the first time.
She understands a considerable amount more about keto than you do. Our liver and kidneys do a great job of detoxing and if they don't you need an emergency room rather than keto. Those that are trying to understand keto need to be told facts rather than woo.
Yes, and she also understands that carbs are not a toxin. The idea that the whole broad category of foods containing carbs = toxin is just mind-boggling. 2019, what a year!
And it’s only just begun! Before keto there was paleo, Atkins, the blood type diet, whole30.... so on and so forth. I’m scared to see what fad diet erupts in 2019 and what toxic substance I’ve been filling my body with my whole life without even knowing!
(Sarcasm)
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Teabythesea_ wrote: »Lillymoo01 wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »MichelleSilverleaf wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »MichelleSilverleaf wrote: »
Would I be correct in 'assuming' you have not done Keto yet?
https://gutmicrobiotaforhealth.com/en/about-gut-microbiota-info/
When we move to the Keto WOE we are feeding our gut microbiota differently so the shift in population can lead to a die off of the more health negative microbiota leading to a pronounced short term detoxing for some of us for a few weeks.
I don't need to do keto to know that's not how it works. And you don't exactly have a reputation of sharing factual information, either.
While you do not understand the detox part when going keto that often occurs that is fine as long others do understand that are trying Keto for the first time.
She understands a considerable amount more about keto than you do. Our liver and kidneys do a great job of detoxing and if they don't you need an emergency room rather than keto. Those that are trying to understand keto need to be told facts rather than woo.
Yes, and she also understands that carbs are not a toxin. The idea that the whole broad category of foods containing carbs = toxin is just mind-boggling. 2019, what a year!
And it’s only just begun! Before keto there was paleo, Atkins, the blood type diet, whole30.... so on and so forth. I’m scared to see what fad diet erupts in 2019 and what toxic substance I’ve been filling my body with my whole life without even knowing!
(Sarcasm)
My vote is on celery juice. It's popped up a couple times.
OP, let us know how increasing your carbs goes for you. I hope that it's as easy as that. I hate that people make things so much harder than they need to be.10
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