What about intermittent fasting
wderwich1
Posts: 6 Member
Hi , i heared a lot about the IF , people are using it to lose weight . Personally , i was using this pattern since 2 weeks , at first i was fasting 16 hours and i was eating for 8 hours , than after 3 days i started fasting 20 hours , i lost 1.5 kg during this period , i hope you share with me your succes story using this pattern if you've tried it .
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Replies
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Hi, it helps me as I eat less if I eat only within the limited six or four hours. But for me, it all depends on calories in versus calories out. IF is just a pattern.6
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I have followed it strictly, combined with counting of calories and have lost 30lbs for five months. 60 to go!4
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Im happy for u , nice to hear that , out of curiosity how mush calories u consume probably and which kind of food do u eat during the eating period ?0
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Send me a friend request if you want. My diary is open to friends. I eat everything and stay between 1500-1700 KCal. I was very flexible for a whole month over Christmas and just recently got back on track. I eat everything!2
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Ive done 16:8 /18:6 for over 30 years and its just a time in which you eat your calories. I eat what I want as long as it fits into my calories for the day. I have gained doing IF(eating too much), maintained and lost. you still have to eat less calories than you burn to lose weight . how much one eats calorie wise is going to be different for everyone. IF is not a special way to lose weight,you still have to be in a deficit. if it helps you to stick to your deficit which is how you lose weight then great. but you cant eat as much as you want and still lose just by fasting.12
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Check out The Obesity Code and The Complete Guide to Fasting by Dr Jason Fung if you want to understand what the whole IF thing is about at the physiological process level, and why when you eat is as important as what you eat. I've been following Dr Fung's advice for the last 27 weeks, to include IF and low-carb/keto. My HbA1C (glycated haemoglobin) has gone from "pre-diabetic" to "normal", I've lost 20kg and now fit into 36" waist jeans from 44" waist previously, all through diet only, no extra exercise. Last time I did something similar in 2012-13, it took me 14 months to lose 35kg, using CICO (calories-in vs calories-out) at 1500kcal/day and aquarobics classes 4x 1hr sessions a week. 28kg of that loss came back within the following eight months, coz that's always the problem with CICO, the weight never stays off long-term. Dr Fung explains why that happens and it's nothing to do with seeming to be a lazy gluttonous loser!. Now I know "how it works", it won't happen to me again. I hope this helps.38
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Check out The Obesity Code and The Complete Guide to Fasting by Dr Jason Fung if you want to understand what the whole IF thing is about at the physiological process level, and why when you eat is as important as what you eat. I've been following Dr Fung's advice for the last 27 weeks, to include IF and low-carb/keto. My HbA1C (glycated haemoglobin) has gone from "pre-diabetic" to "normal", I've lost 20kg and now fit into 36" waist jeans from 44" waist previously, all through diet only, no extra exercise. Last time I did something similar in 2012-13, it took me 14 months to lose 35kg, using CICO (calories-in vs calories-out) at 1500kcal/day and aquarobics classes 4x 1hr sessions a week. 28kg of that loss came back within the following eight months, coz that's always the problem with CICO, the weight never stays off long-term. Dr Fung explains why that happens and it's nothing to do with seeming to be a lazy gluttonous loser!. Now I know "how it works", it won't happen to me again. I hope this helps.
Speaking of "how it works" ALL weight management plans employ CICO :
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I think it can be easier for some people to only eat at certain times. A window wouldn't work for me since OMAD wouldn't allow me to get enough veg/protein/fiber (not saying that's true for everyone, just how my appetite works), and a window would allow me to eat a ton in snacking if I just ate whatever during the window. However, I find that eating only at meals (2 or 3, doesn't really matter for me) and not between them works better for me. I suspect that in reality IF works on a similar principle, and finding a pattern that makes it easier for you is great, good job! As I've mentioned in another thread, a friend of mine did the 5:2 version of IF and really liked it and does it for maintenance, since she finds it easier than other ways to watch what she eats (she also eats a reasonably healthy diet and exercises, of course, since those things are important for health).
As for the Fung stuff, I just wish he didn't spread the message that admitting that you can overeat easily = being a glutton and loser, since that's a really negative message. It's as if admitting personal responsibility and thinking of ways that work for your own personal tendencies means you must be a bad loser fat person. I was fat, and I think it was because I was eating too much, but I wasn't a loser, and that I take personal responsibility makes me the opposite, IMO.9 -
Check out The Obesity Code and The Complete Guide to Fasting by Dr Jason Fung if you want to understand what the whole IF thing is about at the physiological process level, and why when you eat is as important as what you eat. I've been following Dr Fung's advice for the last 27 weeks, to include IF and low-carb/keto. My HbA1C (glycated haemoglobin) has gone from "pre-diabetic" to "normal", I've lost 20kg and now fit into 36" waist jeans from 44" waist previously, all through diet only, no extra exercise. Last time I did something similar in 2012-13, it took me 14 months to lose 35kg, using CICO (calories-in vs calories-out) at 1500kcal/day and aquarobics classes 4x 1hr sessions a week. 28kg of that loss came back within the following eight months, coz that's always the problem with CICO, the weight never stays off long-term. Dr Fung explains why that happens and it's nothing to do with seeming to be a lazy gluttonous loser!. Now I know "how it works", it won't happen to me again. I hope this helps.
Firstly, CICO is NOT a diet - it is an energy equation that describes the relationship between calories taken into the body (eating/drinking) and calories expended by the body.
Secondly - to the bolded line above - the reason the weight comes back is because people lose the weight that they want to lose and then they go right back to the eating habits that got them in trouble in the first place! That is the problem with going on a diet - people don't learn how to control the eating habits that got them fat in the first place, so they don't keep the weight off after they lose it. Without making permanent changes to your eating habits, NO diet on this planet will magically keep you from regaining the weight when you go off the diet.18 -
Thanks, ccdragon, lemurcat and snickerscharlie.
Sorry, but I get very tired of your kind of feedback and the arrogant assumption that you're an expert and I'm an idiot. I have been fighting overweight for more than 50 years. I assure you, as night follows day, that CICO doesn't work having suffered its disappointments many times.
Come on, guys, you can do better than come up with charts like that one above. You can't really believe any physiological process is as simple as that, can you, really?? The thought that has bothered me for a very long time is that if the CICO theory is right, why does it always fail in the long term?
You see, as an engineer, I know that if I don't know something works, I can neither "fix it" nor "make a better one" and it's that knowledge about the physiological processes at work that Dr Fung has provided at long last! IMO that's the link that's been missing since day one. The man deserves a knighthood, he sure doesn't deserve your contempt. Check out Ivor Cummings' YT videos, he's an engineer too!
Dr Fung's point is that until you understand how insulin controls blood sugar via a two-compartment model, you're guessing. And if you really think 500kcal of broccoli has the same effect as 500kcal of Christmas cake, you are under a huge and obvious delusion. CICO is a fairy story guys, in no way does it match any process the body uses to control appetite or the distribution of glucose and fat.
So, I'd ask you, please, read The Obesity Code before you comment further, at least have the good manners to do that. Then you can tell us all where Dr Fung has gone wrong. As an easier alternative, you could try Dr Fung's YT series "The Aetiology of Obesity".
Then go to the DietDoctor website and tell us where Prof Tim Noakes has slipped up along with Drs Andreas Eenfeldt, Peter Attia, Sarah Hallberg, Thomas Seyfried among many many more. Oh, and then you can tell us all why Prof Yoshinori Ohsumi should not have been awarded the Nobel Prize for medicine in 2016.
At least have the courage of your convictions to understand "metabolic syndrome" and that everyone (including you) who follows the American nutritional guidelines from the 1980s is cursed to suffer from it. Note that those guidelines became adopted across the world so the Yanks have the world pandemics of obesity and Type 2 Diabetes to answer for! These stupid guidelines have even infected Asia and the Far East.
Finally, I'd ask you to refrain from contributing to this thread until you are better informed. Thanks.43 -
Thanks, ccdragon, lemurcat and snickerscharlie.
Sorry, but I get very tired of your kind of feedback and the arrogant assumption that you're an expert and I'm an idiot. I have been fighting overweight for more than 50 years. I assure you, as night follows day, that CICO doesn't work having suffered its disappointments many times.
Come on, guys, you can do better than come up with charts like that one above. You can't really believe any physiological process is as simple as that, can you, really??
You see, as an engineer, I know that if I don't know something works, I can neither "fix it" nor "make a better one" and it's that knowledge about the physiological processes at work that Dr Fung has provided. Check out Ivor Cummings' YT videos, he's an engineer too!
Dr Fung's point is that until you understand how insulin controls blood sugar via a two-compartment model, you're guessing. And if you really think 500kcal of broccoli has the same effect as 500kcal of Christmas cake, you are under a huge and obvious delusion. CICO is a fairy story guys, in no way does it match any process the body uses to control appetite or the distribution of glucose and fat.
So, I'd ask you, please, read The Obesity Code before you comment further, at least have the good manners to do that. Then you can tell us all where Dr Fung has gone wrong. As an easier alternative, you could try Dr Fung's YT series "The Aetiology of Obesity".
Then go to the DietDoctor website and tell us where Prof Tim Noakes has slipped up along with Drs Andreas Eenfeldt, Peter Attia, Sarah Hallberg, Thomas Seyfried among many many more. Oh, and then you can tell us all why Prof Yoshinori Ohsumi should not have been awarded the Nobel Prize for medicine in 2016.
At least have the courage of your convictions to understand "metabolic syndrome" and that everyone (including you) who follows the American nutritional guidelines from the 1980s is cursed to suffer from it. Note that those guidelines became adopted across the world so the Yanks have the world pandemics of obesity and Type 2 Diabetes to answer for! These stupid guidelines have even infected Asia and the Far East.
Finally, I'd ask you to refrain from contributing to this thread until you are better informed.
To the bolded:
1) Not seeing where anyone is implying you're an idiot. Certainly not my intent, at least.
2) If you post on a public forum that is open to discussion, you don't get to dictate who can or cannot respond to what you post.22 -
I'll just drop a few of these here for you Bigfla...
https://weightology.net/insulin-an-undeserved-bad-reputation/
https://thescienceofnutrition.wordpress.com/2012/09/26/good-calories-bad-calories-a-critical-review/
https://www.myoleanfitness.com/evidence-caloric-restriction/
https://rachelwilliamsfitness.com/2017/06/11/debunking-dr-jason-fungs-criticism-of-cico/
https://www.diabetes-warrior.net/2015/04/20/fung-us-among-us/
When you have gotten thru those, please let me know as I have an entire tab of links that show how wrong Fung is about insulin and obesity and intermittant fasting....
I would also ask you to actually read the work that Dr Ohsumi published on autophagy (I have). It will open your eyes about the assumptions that Fung made about that work as well.
Also, I have never been a breakfast eater and have practiced IF almost all of my adult life (since long before somebody came along and gave it a fancy name) - I got fat doing IF, I lost weight doing IF and I have maintained doing IF - there is nothing at all magical about IF.26 -
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Would also like to note that I, too, have been doing IF literally for decades - almost 5 of them!
I've just never been a breakfast person. But I started eating in the morning during the whole "Breakfast is the most important meal of the day" era, because I totally bought into that. Realized shortly thereafter that eating food I wasn't actually hungry for was completely counter-productive. And I gained weight as a result.
For me, what happens is that whenever in the day I *do* first eat, it seems to wake up my appetite which then continues to hound me for the rest of the day. Discovered that my original eating pattern of skipping breakfast and then having a good lunch, dinner and room for a few evening snacks suited me much better.
Having said that, it is entirely possible to overeat and gain weight regardless of having a limited 'eating window.' Intermittent Fasting is merely a way for *some* people to control their caloric intake for weight management. Nothing more, nothing less.16 -
OK, ccdragon, apologies for the assumptions. It looks like you're a fellow sufferer. No hard feelings, I hope.
I've looked at your links, they all seem to come from personal trainers offering their services. I don't think any of them have read The Obesity Code, at least not the same edition we get here in New Zealand.
I wonder also, how many of them are familiar with dietdoctor.com.
You see, the real issue for me isn't really weight loss so much as it is getting metabolic syndrome under control. Intermittent fasting with LCHF and the ketosis they drive are all part of that. It's all but impossible to get a GFI (glucose ketone index) in an appropriate range without IF. In 27 weeks I have steered myself from T2D, but I'm still insulin resistant, I think, coz my fasting BG in the morning is up around 4.8-5.2 (that's mmol/l, it will be x18 for American Funny Numbers). Currently, my GKI is 2.4, which is OK for fixing T2D. I have yet to try extended fasting, but that is what will be necessary to increase my BGI into the therapeutic range. I trust you are familiar with Dr Thomas Seyfreid.
You see the biggie for me is the horror of Alzheimer's, sometimes called T3D these days, you might like to check this out https://mindbodygreen.com/articles/the-connection-between-blood-sugar-and-alzheimers-disease
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Check out The Obesity Code and The Complete Guide to Fasting by Dr Jason Fung if you want to understand what the whole IF thing is about at the physiological process level, and why when you eat is as important as what you eat. I've been following Dr Fung's advice for the last 27 weeks, to include IF and low-carb/keto. My HbA1C (glycated haemoglobin) has gone from "pre-diabetic" to "normal", I've lost 20kg and now fit into 36" waist jeans from 44" waist previously, all through diet only, no extra exercise. Last time I did something similar in 2012-13, it took me 14 months to lose 35kg, using CICO (calories-in vs calories-out) at 1500kcal/day and aquarobics classes 4x 1hr sessions a week. 28kg of that loss came back within the following eight months, coz that's always the problem with CICO, the weight never stays off long-term. Dr Fung explains why that happens and it's nothing to do with seeming to be a lazy gluttonous loser!. Now I know "how it works", it won't happen to me again. I hope this helps.
1. CICO isn't a diet, it's an energy equation and it's always at play regardless of what diet plan you are on.
2. The success rate of keeping weight off long term is abysmal regardless of what diet plan you are on.
3. I lost weight counting calories...I've maintained that for going on 6 years because I've maintained the healthy habits I learned when I was losing weight.
4. Fung either does not know or purposely misleads people in regards to the roll that insulin plays in the body...for a healthy person, it's not anything they really need to worry about.
5. Fung is a bit of a quack.21 -
Finally, I'd ask you to refrain from contributing to this thread until you are better informed. Thanks.
No one can say what thread people can contribute to, and it's hilarious in that you aren't even the OP.
CICO explains why you lose, gain, or maintain. Other things may well make it easier to maintain a calorie balance that leads to desired results, whatever they are -- this is why IF is a good choice for some -- but it's just not true that calories do not matter. I'm sorry if you think that means you were a loser for getting fat, it really doesn't, and I think Fung should be ashamed for telling people that's the conclusion to draw from understanding that calories matter.16 -
Interesting, today the internet has several news stories reporting a link between Alzheimers and the bacteria that causes gingivitis.You see the biggie for me is the horror of Alzheimer's, sometimes called T3D these days, you might like to check this out https://mindbodygreen.com/articles/the-connection-between-blood-sugar-and-alzheimers-disease
Who knows what to believe.6 -
hobbitses333 wrote: »IF gave me the knowledge that my ''bad habit'' of skipping breakfast wasn't bad at all...That eased a long held anxiety with food and left room to begin build a good relationship with it. Two big meals and a small snack in a 6 to 7 hour window leaves me in a good state of mind with feeling satisfied. With a love for cheese I can easily eat too many calories in this window so I also use moderation on most days...some days are total failures but overall I am down 53 lbs in 7 months. I have never been able to lose that much weight in my entire life.
I look forward to the food I eat now and know I will not starve or do harm to wait to eat for a few extra hours in one day. I carry almonds and water with me always in case I take it to the point I feel unwell. I recently realized I never knew hunger before...now I know it and and learning to let it guide me.
You are the exact person IF helps. It helps you stay in an overall calorie deficit. It improved your relationship with food. It helps you identify your body's signals.
Congratulations on your loss. Enjoy!11 -
Thanks, ccdragon, lemurcat and snickerscharlie.
Sorry, but I get very tired of your kind of feedback and the arrogant assumption that you're an expert and I'm an idiot. I have been fighting overweight for more than 50 years. I assure you, as night follows day, that CICO doesn't work having suffered its disappointments many times.
Come on, guys, you can do better than come up with charts like that one above. You can't really believe any physiological process is as simple as that, can you, really?? The thought that has bothered me for a very long time is that if the CICO theory is right, why does it always fail in the long term?
You see, as an engineer, I know that if I don't know something works, I can neither "fix it" nor "make a better one" and it's that knowledge about the physiological processes at work that Dr Fung has provided at long last! IMO that's the link that's been missing since day one. The man deserves a knighthood, he sure doesn't deserve your contempt. Check out Ivor Cummings' YT videos, he's an engineer too!
Dr Fung's point is that until you understand how insulin controls blood sugar via a two-compartment model, you're guessing. And if you really think 500kcal of broccoli has the same effect as 500kcal of Christmas cake, you are under a huge and obvious delusion. CICO is a fairy story guys, in no way does it match any process the body uses to control appetite or the distribution of glucose and fat.
So, I'd ask you, please, read The Obesity Code before you comment further, at least have the good manners to do that. Then you can tell us all where Dr Fung has gone wrong. As an easier alternative, you could try Dr Fung's YT series "The Aetiology of Obesity".
Then go to the DietDoctor website and tell us where Prof Tim Noakes has slipped up along with Drs Andreas Eenfeldt, Peter Attia, Sarah Hallberg, Thomas Seyfried among many many more. Oh, and then you can tell us all why Prof Yoshinori Ohsumi should not have been awarded the Nobel Prize for medicine in 2016.
At least have the courage of your convictions to understand "metabolic syndrome" and that everyone (including you) who follows the American nutritional guidelines from the 1980s is cursed to suffer from it. Note that those guidelines became adopted across the world so the Yanks have the world pandemics of obesity and Type 2 Diabetes to answer for! These stupid guidelines have even infected Asia and the Far East.
Finally, I'd ask you to refrain from contributing to this thread until you are better informed. Thanks.
I'd recommend watching the below video from Layne Norton, PhD. He is actually trained in nutritional science, unlike Fung who is an endocrinologist.
https://youtu.be/WWYdDs9SbqE
What you will also notice is that fung doesn't have any evidence to support his claims about CICO. Trust me, i have read his website and looked. In fact, there are hundreds of metabolic ward studies that prove Dr. Fung wrong. Even Kevin Halls last study compared a high sugar/ high carb diet/low fat diet vs keto diet and didn't show much difference; technically the LF diet had slightly more fat loss. Additionally, if you look at meta analyses ( like below), it doesn't show much of a difference in human models.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4516560/
I lost 50 lbs and kept it off for over 6 years using 3 meals that where high carb high protein. In recent years i have tried IF amd Keto and they were some of the worst diets i have tried.
Having said that, i do find its valuable for people, like my wife, who don't do well with breakfast. Its beneficial for those who tend to get greater compliance when meals are limited. One of the reasons why IF didn't work is because i was always thinking of my first meal and it would be much larger than if i ate breakfast. So I didn't really lose any weight. Needless to say, after 3 months, i went back to my original eating pattern which aligns to my standard circadian rhythm.
ETA: if i am taking advice, i generally like to take advice from those in the field; Layne Norton, Brad Schoenfeld, Lyle McDonald, Eric Helms, Menno Hanselmann.
Its rare i take advice from MDs. How i put it is this, if you had a heart problem you wouldn't go to a dermatologist. So why take advice from someone not trained in the science.22 -
@psuLemon fung is a nephrologist just to clear things up
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So you haven't read Dr Fung's books then? You might learn something if you did!
Also, he's a consultant nephrologist with a clinic in a poorer part of Toronto. He has seen thousands of patients over the years that he can probably divide into 2 categories. There are those who take his IF/LCHF advice and survive, and those who don't or can't and die early as a result, except that in the process lose their sight, suffer appalling rashes and undergo amputations among other horrors.
Along with obesity and type II diabetes, kidney disease is one of those categorised as metabolic syndrome. So before any weight loss program becomes meaningful, you have to understand its ability to counter metabolic syndrome. Obesity is a symptom, it is not a disease in its own right - that is Dr Fung's principal point. As I said before; since there are no analogues in the human body that detect and control calorie intake, CICO as a control method is irrelevant where control of diseases within metabolic syndrome is concerned.
As for proof that CICO doesn't work in the long-term for nearly everybody, look around you. There are two reasons that 2/3 of the people you see are overweight. The first is the travesty of the 1980s American Nutritional Guidelines. The second is that nearly all of them know CICO doesn't work because it is extremely likely most of them have tried it at some time or other and been disappointed. We're all bombarded with it, Weight Watchers, Jenny Craig, those ridiculous diet shake things and all the rest to include the CICO based "advice" from MFP!
If you don't believe the second reason is true, ask yourself why the diet food companies are still in business and thriving.
OK, mate, that's me done, I'm out. I wish you well.30 -
So you haven't read Dr Fung's books then? You might learn something if you did!
Also, he's a consultant nephrologist with a clinic in a poorer part of Toronto. He has seen thousands of patients over the years that he can probably divide into 2 categories. There are those who take his IF/LCHF advice and survive, and those who don't or can't and die early as a result, except that in the process lose their sight, suffer appalling rashes and undergo amputations among other horrors.
Along with obesity and type II diabetes, kidney disease is one of those categorised as metabolic syndrome. So before any weight loss program becomes meaningful, you have to understand its ability to counter metabolic syndrome. Obesity is a symptom, it is not a disease in its own right - that is Dr Fung's principal point. As I said before; since there are no analogues in the human body that detect and control calorie intake, CICO as a control method is irrelevant where control of diseases within metabolic syndrome is concerned.
As for proof that CICO doesn't work in the long-term for nearly everybody, look around you. There are two reasons that 2/3 of the people you see are overweight. The first is the travesty of the 1980s American Nutritional Guidelines. The second is that nearly all of them know CICO doesn't work because it is extremely likely most of them have tried it at some time or other and been disappointed. We're all bombarded with it, Weight Watchers, Jenny Craig, those ridiculous diet shake things and all the rest to include the CICO based "advice" from MFP!
If you don't believe the second reason is true, ask yourself why the diet food companies are still in business and thriving.
OK, mate, that's me done, I'm out. I wish you well.
CICO isn't something you 'try' like a diet, because it isn't a diet. Also, calorie counting isn't CICO hence your confusion.17 -
CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »@psuLemon fung is a nephrologist just to clear things up
Thanks.. its been awhile since i looked at his background.3 -
CICO isn't a control method it's the energy balance equation.
And the main reasons that obesity has reached the proportions it has? Abundance of food and a society that has become much more sedentary as a whole.
From http://nwcr.ws/default.htmThe NWCR is tracking over 10,000 individuals who have lost significant amounts of weight and kept it off for long periods of time. Detailed questionnaires and annual follow-up surveys are used to examine the behavioral and psychological characteristics of weight maintainers, as well as the strategies they use to maintaining their weight losses.
As for why many people regain the weight? A few reasons:- People successfully take the weight off by adopting a different way of eating/fitness regimen temporarily. Once they reach their goal (or get discouraged before they do), they go right back to their old ways of eating and drop the exercise.
- Many weight-loss plans—especially the fad diets—are all about shedding the pounds, but don't advise on how to maintain the loss. (This also answers your question about why the diet food companies are still in business.)
- Losing weight provides its own encouragement/reinforcement. It's empowering to see the scale numbers go down. Maintenance is more of a 'same-old, same-old', and it can be easy to slack off, not notice portion sizes gradually creeping up, figure "I've been doing this for X amount of time; I know what I'm doing" and stop logging.
- Life throws curves (illness, crisis, marriage, divorce, month-long cruises with 24-hour all-you-can-eat buffets) and we decide we need to take a break from focusing on what we're eating and deal with what needs dealing. Only somehow we don't get back on track afterwards.
- People who lost weight temporarily on plans lacking long-term sustainability go back to them because they've worked before, albeit in the short term. And they work again... in the short term.
- People buy into the current snake oil salesperson telling them that weight loss can't possibly be as simple (note: simple != easy) as "Eat less, move more" and the blame has to fall almost completely on the shoulders of genes/hormones/Big Sugar/Big Dairy/Big Oil/GMOs/Processed food/Sneaky food scientists making addictive snacks/Insert latest woo here.*
*Not saying that some of this list can't play a part, but it's a minor part.
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So you haven't read Dr Fung's books then? You might learn something if you did!
Also, he's a consultant nephrologist with a clinic in a poorer part of Toronto. He has seen thousands of patients over the years that he can probably divide into 2 categories. There are those who take his IF/LCHF advice and survive, and those who don't or can't and die early as a result, except that in the process lose their sight, suffer appalling rashes and undergo amputations among other horrors.
Along with obesity and type II diabetes, kidney disease is one of those categorised as metabolic syndrome. So before any weight loss program becomes meaningful, you have to understand its ability to counter metabolic syndrome. Obesity is a symptom, it is not a disease in its own right - that is Dr Fung's principal point. As I said before; since there are no analogues in the human body that detect and control calorie intake, CICO as a control method is irrelevant where control of diseases within metabolic syndrome is concerned.
As for proof that CICO doesn't work in the long-term for nearly everybody, look around you. There are two reasons that 2/3 of the people you see are overweight. The first is the travesty of the 1980s American Nutritional Guidelines. The second is that nearly all of them know CICO doesn't work because it is extremely likely most of them have tried it at some time or other and been disappointed. We're all bombarded with it, Weight Watchers, Jenny Craig, those ridiculous diet shake things and all the rest to include the CICO based "advice" from MFP!
If you don't believe the second reason is true, ask yourself why the diet food companies are still in business and thriving.
OK, mate, that's me done, I'm out. I wish you well.
The easiest thing to understand is that we burn energy and that energy has to come from somewhere. We either take it in with food or we use energy stores. It is elementary school science.
I don't know why most diets fail. I know most of mine failed because I either didn't understand scale fluctuations, I complicated the weight loss process, I was too restrictive/aggressive, or some combination of the three.
I think the scale trips up a large number of people. Accurately counting calories probably gets a fair amount of people too considering how many people this forum has helped with it.
I have been watching my weight decline for almost a year and it very closely matches the simple principles of CICO. I also skip breakfast but I have done that for years and gained plenty of weight doing it.7 -
So you haven't read Dr Fung's books then? You might learn something if you did!
Also, he's a consultant nephrologist with a clinic in a poorer part of Toronto. He has seen thousands of patients over the years that he can probably divide into 2 categories. There are those who take his IF/LCHF advice and survive, and those who don't or can't and die early as a result, except that in the process lose their sight, suffer appalling rashes and undergo amputations among other horrors.
Along with obesity and type II diabetes, kidney disease is one of those categorised as metabolic syndrome. So before any weight loss program becomes meaningful, you have to understand its ability to counter metabolic syndrome. Obesity is a symptom, it is not a disease in its own right - that is Dr Fung's principal point. As I said before; since there are no analogues in the human body that detect and control calorie intake, CICO as a control method is irrelevant where control of diseases within metabolic syndrome is concerned.
As for proof that CICO doesn't work in the long-term for nearly everybody, look around you. There are two reasons that 2/3 of the people you see are overweight. The first is the travesty of the 1980s American Nutritional Guidelines. The second is that nearly all of them know CICO doesn't work because it is extremely likely most of them have tried it at some time or other and been disappointed. We're all bombarded with it, Weight Watchers, Jenny Craig, those ridiculous diet shake things and all the rest to include the CICO based "advice" from MFP!
If you don't believe the second reason is true, ask yourself why the diet food companies are still in business and thriving.
OK, mate, that's me done, I'm out. I wish you well.
I am fully aware how metabolic syndrome is combatted. If one has Diabetes, PCOS or IR, than its beneficial to follow LCHF or keto.
CICO is energy balance. Its been proven by thousands of metabolic ward studies. Actual science as opposed to anecdotal evidence. If you think keto or IF defies CICO, go eat 6000 calories for an extended period of time and see the results. I have personally trained people and helped people lose weight after gaining 20 or 30 lbs following these diets because they believe the stuff promoted by people like Fung.
Also, all of those people i have listed have PhDs, have trained thousands of people, hold/held records in powerlifting or bodybuilding, and gotten people more fit than anything Fung has done. And that is ok, because their audience is different.
Have you watched the video or read the meta analysis i posted? Do you want to see other meta analyses that say the same thing? Fung isn't doing anything revolutionary. He is trying to follow the whole insulin obesity hypothesis, which is been pretty beat down by several metabolic ward studies.10 -
Hi , i heared a lot about the IF , people are using it to lose weight . Personally , i was using this pattern since 2 weeks , at first i was fasting 16 hours and i was eating for 8 hours , than after 3 days i started fasting 20 hours , i lost 1.5 kg during this period , i hope you share with me your succes story using this pattern if you've tried it .
The most recent I'd heard about it involved 3 days of very low calories followed by two days of no restrictions. The idea of it is that on the 2 unrestricted days, the people ate about 120% of their normal daily intake, while on the three restricted days they ate 25% of their normal daily intake.
Doing the CICO math, that always leads to weight loss. It also has the good result that the person's NEAT is not reduced. 3 restricted days are not enough to change it, and 2 unrestricted days are enough to repair any damage that was done.
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I want to add, i would never discourage anyone from following this diet because the most important thing is adherence, but i have done the diets and both sucked for me. I was much more successful with another method.8
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Also keep in mind that many (too many) people make snap judgments about what is working or not way too early in the weight loss process. When this happens Success/Fail seems much more dependent on water weight losses than fat losses.5
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