A Boxer Tries Running

Silent_Soliloquy

I’m starting a progress thread to track where I am, keep me accountable, and hopefully get some advice from all of you! If you are reading this, thank-you already! Please comment with any insight you might have.

Starting Stats: Male, 35, 155 lbs, Resting HR 57-59. Fought at Lightweight (135lbs) 2001 till 2004. I have done the odd Welterweight fight 2011 till 2015; but I’ve basically become a fat lump since.

October 1, 2018 I was 186.3 lbs. Winter depression was beginning and it just *felt* worse this time… I knew I had to get serious, so I have been on a super strict diet and lost 30 lbs in 100 days. With 3 days fasting and sauna was able to hit 15 Kg lost on day 101. Latest-gen InBody suggests I only lost 0.7 lbs of muscle in my 30 lbs loss, which was super encouraging.

Me last summer:


Me now... but notice all my toning is upper body (forgive the stubborn belly fat...maybe I should cut another 15..ugh)








Obviously, I’m no stranger to cutting weight; but this has really given me “diet exhaustion”. I need something fresh… something different. A friend suggested I join them on a 15K on March 30’th. Initially I had wanted to cut at least to welterweight by April 1… but this run stuck with me as a side goal.

Closest I come to “running” is warming up on a treadmill before boxing or weights. Everything I do is built around 3-minute bursts of energy. I have NO endurance. So this seemed new, seemed fresh, and if we are being 100% honest; mentally, I really need to be able to eat more, and thought running is a good way to earn some oatmeal or something.

I have 60 days to “train”. I don’t even know what my goal should be. I will be doing some baseline workouts to determine my starting fitness over the next few days. Any advice is so appreciated, especially from anyone who runs 10K or more.



Thank you for anyone who got to the end of this!

debrakgoogins

I know you got a lot of advice when you were first thinking about running. First step, get professionally fitted for running shoes and buy good socks. Then, pick a 15k running plan. Hal Higdon and the Galloway method are good for new runners. Interval running (run, walk, run, walk) is a good way to get started and both of those training plans utilize it. When you are training for long distance running, the key is slow and steady and not speed work. Follow the plan! Resist the urge to increase your speed or your distance too fast. Overuse injuries are no fun and stop your progress pretty quick. Take your time when you run - it builds better endurance and allows you to gradually develop the muscle and cardio stamina to run longer distances. As soon as possible, hit the roads. It is completely different than running on a treadmill.

Silent_Soliloquy

So i did a baseline 5k last night on the treadmill. Set the incline to 4%, the speed to 6 mph and thought; how hard can this be? Just keep going, right?
Endurance is very different than power; and I remained humble and just kept plodding along.

I did my half hour 5k, without any walking, turned the machine off, and went to bed.

This a.m.; legs feel great, no soreness except (oddly) in my outer abs. I'm thinking "if running finally gets me abs I'm going to laugh about this for the rest of the year".

It's cold today... -11c. The wind is slinging tiny ice crystals everywhere... but the advice i got yesterday in my first thread was consistent: try a run outside. So I did... it did not go well at all.

Varying hills? Yeah I was unprepared for that?
Strong winds? Made a much bigger difference than I thought.

And i had a jacket, but guys I was *Aching* cold. My hands hurt even with gloves.

I pulled together a painful 2.1 miles in 24 minutes.

And that brings us up to today (jan 24 2019).

mengqiz86

I’m a runner who’s trying to get into boxing for cross train, perhaps you could give some advice to a boxing beginner too

Pretty much echo what the poster above said. Here’s a Hal Higdon 10mile training plan for beginner runners. The plan is across 10 weeks, which is typical for a beginner plan. I know you don’t have 10 weeks, perhaps see if you can start at wk2. https://www.halhigdon.com/training-programs/15k-10-mile-training/novice-15k-10-mile/#training-schedule

A lot of “endurance” is in the head. As an experienced boxer your cardiovascular fitness is probably good - but mentally you are not used to sustained efforts. Build in some short walking intervals as you run - just don’t stop. This helps train your mind.

Music helps many folks, beginner and experienced runners alike. Find music at a rhythm of 165-175 bpm and just match your cadence to it. You’ll be surprised at how it helps lower your perceived efforts.

As to what to expect, McMillan running has a good running calculator that projects your finishing pace. Perhaps start with running 1 mile or 3 miles and plug that into the calculator to project your pace at 2, 5 and 10 miles, and train to that pace, adjusting along the way. 60 days to go from beginner to 15k is not a small feat so don’t expect to beat the average pace, your goal would be to finish the course!

Lastly, you mentioned nutrition. Based on your detailed description of your weight loss journey, I imagine fueling for running is a big concern - you feel like you want to eat more but fear eating too much. Look into how much calories running burns at yor weight, and do not eat excess calories over that weight if you want to maintain your weight loss progress. Quite honestly, I personally feel that when I train for a race, I need to put my weight loss goals on pause. But that’s a personal choice.

debrakgoogins

Silent_Soliloquy wrote: »

It's cold today... -11c. The wind is slinging tiny ice crystals everywhere... but the advice i got yesterday in my first thread was consistent: try a run outside. So I did... it did not go well at all.

Varying hills? Yeah I was unprepared for that?
Strong winds? Made a much bigger difference than I thought.

And i had a jacket, but guys I was *Aching* cold. My hands hurt even with gloves.

I pulled together a painful 2.1 miles in 24 minutes.

Haha, welcome to outdoor running! So, dress like it's 20 degrees warmer than it is and at -11, you need to be dressed pretty darned warm but in layers so that as you warm up, you can take one off. A cold weather form fitting athleting shirt under the jacket will help tremendously. Throw a pair of mittens over the gloves and that will help keep your hands warmer - little hand warmer packets will help even more. Wool socks will help keep your feet warm and dry. Get a buff to keep your neck and face warmer. Polarized sunglasses will help keep the wind out of your eyes - my eyes water so much in wind that this helps me out. You certainly don't have to buy the most expensive stuff just be sure what you buy is breathable. Cross country skiing gear is perfect because it is meant to be unrestrictive, breathable and warm.

DX2JX2

Mittens dude. Mittens. You're used to boxing gloves so you should already be sort of used to them. Mittens are order of magnitudes warmer than gloves.

Also, wind is always a killer but especially in the cold. I think you'll find winter runs without wind actually quite enjoyable. You won't get nearly as cold without wind, either.

Layer up. I took off because of the strong wind today but at that temp I would be wearing 3 layers (tech tee, plus long sleeve heavier tech top, plus sweat wicking hoodie/balaclava) and a light windbreaker.

fitoverfortymom

MITTENS!

I've yet to find gloves that actually keep my hands warm. I like ones with a flap so I can open/close them because they kind of heat/cool throughout the run a few times.

Silent_Soliloquy

@debrakgoogins Thanks so much; i have a pair of Aasics Gel Quantum 180's that feel really nice. soft and easy. I'll go to Fleet Feet soon as ask them about sizing etc.

I have put the Hal Hidgins plan into Excel and shifted the days so my long run is saturday and my rest day is Sunday. That means i'm starting on day 4 or 5 of week 1, so not so bad.

As long as the running feels good, is there a reason or benefit to walking?

@mengqiz86 I'd love to share boxing tips. It's definitely a sport where you want to start exactly right or you will establish poor habits. things like angles of the wrist upon impact won't matter at all for the first 3 months; until you get your power dialed in and next thing you know you injure yourself. But by then, if poor form is already established you will revert back to it when you are tired and injure yourself over and over.

as for the mentality of sustained effort; you're exactly right ... i need to find my zen. it is mentally hard to keep plodding along even though it's not like it hurts yet or anything. I'll start making a favorites playlist.

Nutrition... I take my food pretty seriously, and i plan to basically eat back my running calories and beyond that keep everything else the same.

@DX2JX2 and @fitoverfortymom ... I'll be getting some mittens. i used to have a pair of those flap over kinds, for boating. i actually really liked them.

Thanks again everyone who has stopped in. i hope i can keep this going in a positive direction for the next 9 weeks !

FL_Hiker

Welcome to the dark side, there’s no going back now 😉

debrakgoogins

If you can sing a song without being winded and there’s no pain, you can keep running. If you can’t, do the walk intervals. Walk/run intervals let you gradually build your cardio and muscular endurance. You might feel good while you’re running but if you overdo it, you’ll feel it later!

wanderingarcher

FL_Hiker wrote: »

Welcome to the dark side, there’s no going back now 😉

Truth.
Great advice on here. I’m glad you posted. I’m taking notes.

I run to be outside. I used to do HIIT on the treadmill years ago. I’ll never (voluntarily) go back to a treadmill.
Because I’m in it for the experience rather than a training goal, all I ever really think of is to push my limits, just a little, every time. So far that’s worked really well to build endurance and increase mileage.
That’s my tiny bit; these guys are the real experts 👆🏻

PS. I’ll always slow down to see something interesting. Not sure I’d make a 15k. Especially one with cookies.

debrakgoogins

@wanderingarcher I am not an expert by any means, lol. I am very new to running. I just shared the wisdom others shared with me that helped me improve.

wanderingarcher

@debrakgoogins I’m glad you shared! I always happy to learn.

DX2JX2

Silent_Soliloquy wrote: »

As long as the running feels good, is there a reason or benefit to walking?

Not really. For conditioning, it's actually better to slow down your overall pace so you don't need a walk break and can run the entire distance. If you don't need the break, don't worry about it. That said, watch your overall mileage and make sure that you're increasing at a gradual rate to reduce the chance of injury. General rule of thumb is to increase no more than 10% per week though if you're just getting started don't worry so much about your percentage increase and instead focus on the number of times you run per week or adding one mile to each of your runs, etc.

For beginners, longer and slower is better than shorter and faster to start. Once you build yourself up to some consistent mileage (about 20ish miles per week), then you can consider making one session per week speed-based.

Silent_Soliloquy

-42 windchill here today ... I have modified the hal hidgons program into an excel and today is cross training anyway. Tomorrow is my "distance" run, if it's worse than -30 I'll just have to use the treadmill.

Thanks everyone for joining in. I hope there will be an uptick in mileage etc soon...

Tacklewasher

Silent_Soliloquy wrote: »

-42 windchill here today ... I have modified the hal hidgons program into an excel and today is cross training anyway. Tomorrow is my "distance" run, if it's worse than -30 I'll just have to use the treadmill.

Thanks everyone for joining in. I hope there will be an uptick in mileage etc soon...

Yeah, cold and icy sucks. I had to figure out how to make the treadmill not stop after an hour to get some of my longer runs in.

Silent_Soliloquy

Just finished a decent treadmill session.

Hal had me doing 2 miles. I have found on the treadmill 6mph is a recovery pace and 8 mph is where I start to huff and puff, so I bounced between 6 and 8 and came up on 2 miles feeling really great.

Did the 2 Miles in 17:35, and felt good so I kept jogging at 6... Ended up doing 3 miles in 27:40 and feel very good. Walked it off just enough to finish a 500 cal burn.

My outer abs are my weak spot for sure which is so crazy with all the speed bag work I do.

Weather is looking bad all week, -30 to -45 every day, so I'll have to keep treadmilling.

TavistockToad

Silent_Soliloquy wrote: »

Just finished a decent treadmill session.

Hal had me doing 2 miles. I have found on the treadmill 6mph is a recovery pace and 8 mph is where I start to huff and puff, so I bounced between 6 and 8 and came up on 2 miles feeling really great.

Did the 2 Miles in 17:35, and felt good so I kept jogging at 6... Ended up doing 3 miles in 27:40 and feel very good. Walked it off just enough to finish a 500 cal burn.

My outer abs are my weak spot for sure which is so crazy with all the speed bag work I do.

Weather is looking bad all week, -30 to -45 every day, so I'll have to keep treadmilling.

Unless your plan calls for speed work, I'd stick to the easy pace as it may not feel so easy as the mileage increases.

Silent_Soliloquy

I appreciate the feedback ... I didn't consider 8 mph to be in the realm of speed work... more just, varying pace to keep other muscles activated, fight off monotony, etc.

An hour is a really long time. Even half an hour is a huge mental test for me. The mental monotony is far more challenging than the muscular aspect as of now.

We'll see when we get up to 5 or 6 miles in a few weeks ... I'll probably be whining like a baby.

TavistockToad

Silent_Soliloquy wrote: »

I appreciate the feedback ... I didn't consider 8 mph to be in the realm of speed work... more just, varying pace to keep other muscles activated, fight off monotony, etc.

An hour is a really long time. Even half an hour is a huge mental test for me. The mental monotony is far more challenging than the muscular aspect as of now.

We'll see when we get up to 5 or 6 miles in a few weeks ... I'll probably be whining like a baby.

You said 8mph was 'huffing and puffing'.

Easy running isn't that IMO

Silent_Soliloquy

Thank you, this is the kind of advice I need.

I keep thinking if I'm not gasping I'm not making progress... but this is a totally different event ... and deserves a totally different training style

wanderingarcher

Silent_Soliloquy wrote: »

I appreciate the feedback ... I didn't consider 8 mph to be in the realm of speed work... more just, varying pace to keep other muscles activated, fight off monotony, etc.

An hour is a really long time. Even half an hour is a huge mental test for me. The mental monotony is far more challenging than the muscular aspect as of now.

We'll see when we get up to 5 or 6 miles in a few weeks ... I'll probably be whining like a baby.

Yeah. This is why I go outside. It makes all the difference. And while I brave the low temps and ford icy streams barefoot, those conditions you mentioned would certainly force me to the treadmill. Wow.

robborunr

Welcome to running sir! I started running about 5 years ago when I became a lump after stopping playing rugby. I would suggest go on time not pace or distance. The advice about singing is spot on. As you get fitter you will get faster. And think about signing up to a race, perhaps a 10k in a few months time, as I would imagine with your background in boxing having something to aim for will be a motivator.

Silent_Soliloquy

@robborunr ...

What started all of this is my friend asked me to do the hot chocolate 15k in indy on march 30th... so that's my goal.

My "goal" is just to finish, but I think aiming for 100 minutes seems reasonable if my training goes well.

Thanks for stopping by! Stay tuned!

lporter229

Silent_Soliloquy wrote: »

Thank you, this is the kind of advice I need.

I keep thinking if I'm not gasping I'm not making progress... but this is a totally different event ... and deserves a totally different training style

Exactly. If you are huffing and puffing, that indicates that you are likely training above your lactate threshold. By definition, you will not be able to hold this pace for an hour. Lactic acid will build up in your muscles and you will hit a wall. This is not the type of training best suited for endurance racing. Running intervals like this is considered speed work and is usually only done one session per week. In fact, for most novice runners, this type of training is not even recommended. You are going to get the most bang for your buck by building your aerobic running base. As @TavistockToad said, slow and easy is the way to go. You are training your muscles to go through the motions of running while consuming as little oxygen as possible. Speed comes naturally as a result.

I understand the boredom factor on the treadmill. I usually try to reserve the treadmill only for a speed workout like you were doing. You can do other things to help relieve the monotony, though. Try a short ladder workout where you up the pace by 0.1mph every 30 seconds over the range of 0.5mph and then back down. Or if you are watching TV go up for 0.5mph during the commercials and then back down. This way, you still get to alleviate the monotony of a constant pace, but without pushing yourself into that lactate threshold zone.

Good luck with your training and your race!

littlegreenparrot1

You have had lots of great advice already, I would definitely stick to the advised walk breaks. It is designed to gradually increase to avoid injury. I'm sure you're boxing fitness is great, but remember this is a different type of movement, so you need to build the stamina.

I find the best thing for the boredom is podcasts or audio books. It helps distract me from the cold and makes the time go quicker.

Silent_Soliloquy

That really helps to think ... I am not training myself for power output ... I'm training efficiency and low energy consumption.

That helps me a lot to think of it this way... eye opening really

So I can, in a way, be proud that "I didnt even get tired" on a nice even paced jog.

Silent_Soliloquy

Plodded out another 5k on the treadmill today. Did 2 miles at 7 mph, walked a short stretch, then jogged 6.5 mph to finish 3 miles. Then walked the remainder for an even 500 calorie burn (3.3 mile).

I practiced matching my cadence to the music... some songs were perfect, others were super awkward. I can definitely see the benefit to having the right playlist. Two songs were...like a ticking clock. It actually felt easier and encouraged me to lengthen my stride.

TavistockToad

Silent_Soliloquy wrote: »

Plodded out another 5k on the treadmill today. Did 2 miles at 7 mph, walked a short stretch, then jogged 6.5 mph to finish 3 miles. Then walked the remainder for an even 500 calorie burn (3.3 mile).

I practiced matching my cadence to the music... some songs were perfect, others were super awkward. I can definitely see the benefit to having the right playlist. Two songs were...like a ticking clock. It actually felt easier and encouraged me to lengthen my stride.

How often are you running? Is you plan 4 or 5 x a week?

Silent_Soliloquy

I am following the Hal Hidgons 10 weeks to 10 miles plan (or 15K)...

the general trend is:
Monday: run
Tuesday: cross train
Wednesday: stretch and strength
Thursday: run
Friday: cross train
Saturday: run + weights
Sunday: rest.

As of now i'm just doing 1 mile more than the plan calls for for all the runs. i seem to be in a a little bit better shape than he assumes for a "novice", but i know the program will get more difficult very soon.

TavistockToad

Silent_Soliloquy wrote: »

I am following the Hal Hidgons 10 weeks to 10 miles plan (or 15K)...

the general trend is:
Monday: run
Tuesday: cross train
Wednesday: stretch and strength
Thursday: run
Friday: cross train
Saturday: run + weights
Sunday: rest.

As of now i'm just doing 1 mile more than the plan calls for for all the runs. i seem to be in a a little bit better shape than he assumes for a "novice", but i know the program will get more difficult very soon.

if you think you know better than Hal, than go for it! personally my advice would be to stick to the plan.