Genetically Engineered Vegan Milk

MikePfirrman

I do a lot of work with start-ups in recruiting. There's a very new, really intriguing one to me. It's a company in CA that is making Genetically identical milk in the lab. The idea is it tastes just like milk but if you have ethically questioned if milk is right for you, it fills that need.

As someone that's mostly dairy free (except the occasional A2/A2 dairy), there's nothing in the world like real milk.

I was just thinking, though, isn't this appealing to the exact population (ironically) that decries Genetic Engineering as such a bad thing. I've never thought that about genetic engineering but isn't that quite the quandary for some?

https://geneticliteracyproject.org/2017/01/13/sustainably-produced-cows-milk-made-using-genetically-engineered-yeast-coming-breakfast-table/

It's more about the Environment for them with added benefit of not hurting animals.

I'd try it no problem. I'm just curious if that represents issues for anyone that's not as trusting of Genetic Engineering. I just kind of got a laugh out of thinking about the irony of that.

janejellyroll

Veganism isn't about an objection to genetic engineering, although some vegans may object to it individually (just as some non-vegans do).

I don't see why this would be more of an issue for vegans than it would be for anyone else.

lin_be

I love all of the GMOs.

cmriverside

It doesn't say what else is being used, but the article about it (in the sidebar from your linked article) says:

The yeast ferments sugar to make real milk proteins (casein and whey), which are then combined with plant-based fats and nutrients to get milk that is lactose-free.

https://geneticliteracyproject.org/2017/03/21/future-milk-genetically-engineered-yeast-replace-cows/


Not too thrilled if it's more palm oil use. It doesn't say.

JeromeBarry1

Yeast do not work for free. Does the company have any data on its CO2 footprint per ton of yeast milk?

If yeast milk and cow's milk is all the same, it's down to price for me. Can yeast be milked cheaper than cows?

MikePfirrman

Good questions, I'm not sure the answers, though I know some of the individuals involved in building/engineering the plant. I might ask some of these questions for better clarification. I'm also not a scientist, so I do my best to understand the answers but some honestly go over my head!

MikePfirrman

JeromeBarry1 wrote: »

Yeast do not work for free. Does the company have any data on its CO2 footprint per ton of yeast milk?

If yeast milk and cow's milk is all the same, it's down to price for me. Can yeast be milked cheaper than cows?

This is the closest thing I could find (linked to the article). Supposedly 98% less water too.

http://www.animalfreemilk.com/files/PD-LCA.pdf

cmriverside

Yeah, I mean the thing is - the "no lactose" part may be alright, but if they're using palm oil then the environmental and animal ethics benefits are non-existent. My argument would be against using a synthesized "milk" product which is essentially the same as the nut milks as far as the disaster to the environment. Slash and burn mono-crop palm oil (or, the trees from which it is derived) is a shameful practice.The burning is on a huge scale, it releases even more CO2, It has virtually eliminated orangutans and other indigenous animals in the most horrific ways - and for what?

Cows aren't endangered.

Fatty_Nuff

I've been drinking vegan yeast milk for years.
In my neck of the woods it's called beer.

cmriverside

Fatty_Nuff wrote: »

I've been drinking vegan yeast milk for years.
In my neck of the woods it's called beer.

The way it's made milky is with plant "fats." It's interesting to me that they even put a spin on the word they used in that description I quoted above. Not "oils" but "fats" because fats are good, vegetable oils are bad (according to the current nutrition fads.)

MikePfirrman

cmriverside wrote: »

Yeah, I mean the thing is - the "no lactose" part may be alright, but if they're using palm oil then the environmental and animal ethics benefits are non-existent. My argument would be against using a synthesized "milk" product which is essentially the same as the nut milks as far as the disaster to the environment. Slash and burn mono-crop palm oil (or, the trees from which it is derived) is a shameful practice.The burning is on a huge scale, it releases even more CO2, It has virtually eliminated orangutans and other indigenous animals in the most horrific ways - and for what?

Cows aren't endangered.

I haven't seen what they are using. I guess I'll reserve judgement until I know what fat it is. That could be a whole host of fat sources but I'm guessing it's just oil they are using.

lemurcat2

MikePfirrman wrote: »

cmriverside wrote: »

Yeah, I mean the thing is - the "no lactose" part may be alright, but if they're using palm oil then the environmental and animal ethics benefits are non-existent. My argument would be against using a synthesized "milk" product which is essentially the same as the nut milks as far as the disaster to the environment. Slash and burn mono-crop palm oil (or, the trees from which it is derived) is a shameful practice.The burning is on a huge scale, it releases even more CO2, It has virtually eliminated orangutans and other indigenous animals in the most horrific ways - and for what?

Cows aren't endangered.

I haven't seen what they are using. I guess I'll reserve judgement until I know what fat it is. That could be a whole host of fat sources but I'm guessing it's just oil they are using.

The article you linked shows the process and it seems to be sunflower oil.

magnusthenerd

cmriverside wrote: »

It doesn't say what else is being used, but the article about it (in the sidebar from your linked article) says:

The yeast ferments sugar to make real milk proteins (casein and whey), which are then combined with plant-based fats and nutrients to get milk that is lactose-free.

https://geneticliteracyproject.org/2017/03/21/future-milk-genetically-engineered-yeast-replace-cows/


Not too thrilled if it's more palm oil use. It doesn't say.

Palm oil is usually used to appeal to the kind of people that are afraid of GMO's, lab food, and monoculture in the first place.
Given it is already being made with lab altered yeast for the protein, anyone willing to drink it is probably not going to balk at having fat from industrial oils.

lemurcat2 wrote: »

MikePfirrman wrote: »

cmriverside wrote: »

Yeah, I mean the thing is - the "no lactose" part may be alright, but if they're using palm oil then the environmental and animal ethics benefits are non-existent. My argument would be against using a synthesized "milk" product which is essentially the same as the nut milks as far as the disaster to the environment. Slash and burn mono-crop palm oil (or, the trees from which it is derived) is a shameful practice.The burning is on a huge scale, it releases even more CO2, It has virtually eliminated orangutans and other indigenous animals in the most horrific ways - and for what?

Cows aren't endangered.

I haven't seen what they are using. I guess I'll reserve judgement until I know what fat it is. That could be a whole host of fat sources but I'm guessing it's just oil they are using.

The article you linked shows the process and it seems to be sunflower oil.

Yeah, it says sunflower oil in the PDF. Interesting they don't have it on their site FAQ.

cmriverside

.

MikePfirrman

lemurcat2 wrote: »

MikePfirrman wrote: »

cmriverside wrote: »

Yeah, I mean the thing is - the "no lactose" part may be alright, but if they're using palm oil then the environmental and animal ethics benefits are non-existent. My argument would be against using a synthesized "milk" product which is essentially the same as the nut milks as far as the disaster to the environment. Slash and burn mono-crop palm oil (or, the trees from which it is derived) is a shameful practice.The burning is on a huge scale, it releases even more CO2, It has virtually eliminated orangutans and other indigenous animals in the most horrific ways - and for what?

Cows aren't endangered.

I haven't seen what they are using. I guess I'll reserve judgement until I know what fat it is. That could be a whole host of fat sources but I'm guessing it's just oil they are using.

The article you linked shows the process and it seems to be sunflower oil.

Thanks, I was hurried this morning and didn't catch that.

Also, my title might be a bit misleading after reading through some of the info again. I think it's Genetically Engineered Yeast that is fermented to produce the protein. Not the protein itself that's genetically engineered. Subtle but important distinction for them (and perhaps consumers too). You would not be drinking anything that has directly been genetically engineered, but instead the product of something genetically engineered.

Again, I'm not a scientist, but I think I'm correct on that.

magnusthenerd

MikePfirrman wrote: »

lemurcat2 wrote: »

MikePfirrman wrote: »

cmriverside wrote: »

Yeah, I mean the thing is - the "no lactose" part may be alright, but if they're using palm oil then the environmental and animal ethics benefits are non-existent. My argument would be against using a synthesized "milk" product which is essentially the same as the nut milks as far as the disaster to the environment. Slash and burn mono-crop palm oil (or, the trees from which it is derived) is a shameful practice.The burning is on a huge scale, it releases even more CO2, It has virtually eliminated orangutans and other indigenous animals in the most horrific ways - and for what?

Cows aren't endangered.

I haven't seen what they are using. I guess I'll reserve judgement until I know what fat it is. That could be a whole host of fat sources but I'm guessing it's just oil they are using.

The article you linked shows the process and it seems to be sunflower oil.

Thanks, I was hurried this morning and didn't catch that.

Also, my title might be a bit misleading after reading through some of the info again. I think it's Genetically Engineered Yeast that is fermented to produce the protein. Not the protein itself that's genetically engineered. Subtle but important distinction for them (and perhaps consumers too). You would not be drinking anything that has directly been genetically engineered, but instead the product of something genetically engineered.

Again, I'm not a scientist, but I think I'm correct on that.

There's not much distinction between using a GMO organism to make a food and a food product being GMO itself. Fear of either with the current testing standards is unfounded.
Even granting some unknown danger possibility for arguendo, it would still need to be about the mechanism and the actual food created. For example, genetically modify soy beans for Roundup resistance or Bt Trait, if the food product they're used for is ultimately soy bean oil, or similar changes to a beet used to make sugar, there's probably less reason to be concerned than a yeast modified to make a protein. The soybean's or beet's trait wouldn't impact how it makes a fat or sugars, but the yeast might be making the protein wrong.