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Ultraprocessed food and increased mortality risk?

try2again
try2again Posts: 3,562 Member
edited December 19 in Debate Club
Came across this and thought I'd put it out there for discussion:

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/article-abstract/2723626?utm_campaign=articlePDF&utm_medium=articlePDFlink&utm_source=articlePDF&utm_content=jamainternmed.2018.7289

I don't feel knowledgeable enough about the subject to comment on it, but am interested to hear others' thoughts.
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Replies

  • cathipa
    cathipa Posts: 2,991 Member
    try2again wrote: »
    I'll also link an interesting post from @Aaron_K123 :smile:

    https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10652594/the-issue-with-processed-foods-opinion/p1

    Question: what's the difference between processed and ultraprocessed?

    From what I understand they considered ultraprocessed as "grab and go" where processed may be like Hamburger Helper? I couldn't open the entire article so just my guess.
  • kimny72
    kimny72 Posts: 16,011 Member
    edited February 2019
    try2again wrote: »
    I'll also link an interesting post from @Aaron_K123 :smile:

    https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10652594/the-issue-with-processed-foods-opinion/p1

    Question: what's the difference between processed and ultraprocessed?

    I believe someone out there in the world coined the term ultraprocessed to differentiate between lightly processed foods like yogurt or roasted nuts and what most people would consider junk food. I don't believe there's a clear definition, yet I am starting to see scientific sources throw the word around like there is. So maybe there is?

    Perhaps if someone is able to get into the full text they define how they used the term for that study.
  • try2again
    try2again Posts: 3,562 Member
    cathipa wrote: »
    try2again wrote: »
    I'll also link an interesting post from @Aaron_K123 :smile:

    https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10652594/the-issue-with-processed-foods-opinion/p1

    Question: what's the difference between processed and ultraprocessed?

    From what I understand they considered ultraprocessed as "grab and go" where processed may be like Hamburger Helper? I couldn't open the entire article so just my guess.

    Bummer... I actually posted the thread before I realized the full text was subscription only.
  • cathipa
    cathipa Posts: 2,991 Member
    Here is what a quick search found:

    Ultra-processed foods: Here’s the category where almost 50% of our calories come from – and where we should cut back. These foods go through multiple processes (extrusion, molding, milling, etc.), contain many added ingredients and are highly manipulated. Examples are soft drinks, chips, chocolate, candy, ice-cream, sweetened breakfast cereals, packaged soups, chicken nuggets, hotdogs, fries and more.

    https://www.heartandstroke.ca/articles/what-is-ultra-processed-food
  • 80sSynthwave
    80sSynthwave Posts: 25 Member
    If you're craving cheese and don't want the extra fat, then ultra processed is the way to go. In the instance of milk, fairlife for example, it just means they are removing the lactase (something like that) sugar molecules, which lowers the carb content, and raises the protein concentration. Those are the only two positives I can think of off-hand.
  • ccrdragon
    ccrdragon Posts: 3,374 Member
    kimny72 wrote: »
    try2again wrote: »
    I'll also link an interesting post from @Aaron_K123 :smile:

    https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10652594/the-issue-with-processed-foods-opinion/p1

    Question: what's the difference between processed and ultraprocessed?

    I believe someone out there in the world coined the term ultraprocessed to differentiate between lightly processed foods like yogurt or roasted nuts and what most people would consider junk food. I don't believe there's a clear definition, yet I am starting to see scientific sources throw the word around like there is. So maybe there is?

    Perhaps if someone is able to get into the full text they define how they used the term for that study.

    The one that I see most frequently using the 'ultra' label is the Brazilian government in their description of what people should be eating - like their version of the food pyramid/my plate. The examples that they give for 'ultra' processed are usually things like candy bars and other sweets, confections (like muffins and cup cakes) and the like and 'fast foods'. They consider processed foods to be things like prepared meals (frozen dinners), pasta, whole-grain bread and items like that. They do not count beans, brown rice, quinoa, frozen fruit and the like as processed - although white rice is processed (stripping off the hull) and white breads are considered ultra-processed (I think).
  • try2again
    try2again Posts: 3,562 Member
    edited February 2019
    kimny72 wrote: »
    try2again wrote: »
    I'll also link an interesting post from @Aaron_K123 :smile:

    https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10652594/the-issue-with-processed-foods-opinion/p1

    Question: what's the difference between processed and ultraprocessed?

    Perhaps if someone is able to get into the full text they define how they used the term for that study.

    Duh... it said right there in the article that it's from the NOVA food classification system, which says this:

    "In 2009, in a commentary signed by one of us (1), we argued that the extent and
    purpose of food processing had changed globally, and that these changes were
    driving the emergence of a harmful global food system and the pandemic of obesity
    and other nutrition-related chronic non-communicable diseases. We also argued that
    classifying foods into two groups of unprocessed and processed foods is useless,
    because most foods as now consumed are processed in some way. We then proposed
    a new system to classify foods and food products based on the extent and purpose of
    the industrial processes applied to preserve, extract, modify or create them.

    The new classification, detailed in a later paper (2), included one group made up of
    snacks, drinks, ready meals and many other products created mostly or entirely from
    substances extracted from foods or derived from food constituents with little if any
    intact food, which often contain flavours, colours and other additives that imitate or
    intensify the sensory qualities of foods or culinary preparations made from foods.

    The formulation and the ingredients of these products make them highly convenient
    (ready-to-consume), highly attractive (hyper-palatable), highly profitable (low cost
    ingredients), and – of great importance – highly competitive with foods that are
    naturally ready to consume and freshly prepared dishes and meals. As a result of their
    formulation, products belonging to this food group are intrinsically nutrientunbalanced and tend to be consumed in great amounts. We termed this group ‘ultraprocessed food and drink products’ (1,2)."
  • try2again
    try2again Posts: 3,562 Member
    cwolfman13 wrote: »
    try2again wrote: »
    I'll also link an interesting post from @Aaron_K123 :smile:

    https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10652594/the-issue-with-processed-foods-opinion/p1

    Question: what's the difference between processed and ultraprocessed?

    From the article...
    Exposures The ultraprocessed foods group (from the NOVA food classification system), characterized as ready-to-eat or -heat formulations made mostly from ingredients usually combined with additives.

    So I would think ultra-processed would be frozen, ready to eat meals, Mac 'n cheese in a box, frozen pizzas...pretty much anything in the freezer section that you can just heat up real quick, fast food, etc. Whereas things like milk, cheese, canned beans, tuna, etc are processed, but not to such an extent.

    I think the correlation makes sense. Such a diet would be lacking nutritionally and someone eating such a diet would not likely be doing anything much for their health like regular exercise and probably would have other unhealthy habits that are engaged in routinely.

    Yes, you're right. I'm a good illustration of how people have different ideas of what is meant when people say "processed" food. I don't think of things like milk & beans when I think of "processed" food in the first place, so the difference between what would be considered "processed" and "ultraprocessed" confused me. :)

  • Phirrgus
    Phirrgus Posts: 1,894 Member
    CSARdiver wrote: »
    I'm very suspect of such studies utilizing popular nebulous terms.

    I'm sure there are multiple correlative factors, but no meaningful causative factor.

    Terribly unhelpful as this furthers the body of misinformation distracting the public to the fact that weight gain is solely due to caloric surplus.

    The study doesn't seem to be focusing on obesity though. I'm sure it's a factor (mortality rates) but not the sole focus unless I misunderstood it?
  • CSARdiver
    CSARdiver Posts: 6,252 Member
    Phirrgus wrote: »
    CSARdiver wrote: »
    I'm very suspect of such studies utilizing popular nebulous terms.

    I'm sure there are multiple correlative factors, but no meaningful causative factor.

    Terribly unhelpful as this furthers the body of misinformation distracting the public to the fact that weight gain is solely due to caloric surplus.

    The study doesn't seem to be focusing on obesity though. I'm sure it's a factor (mortality rates) but not the sole focus unless I misunderstood it?

    Precisely my point. A purposeful omission? The design of experience disregards the elements leading to mortality. The establishment of the control group is also remarkably vague and disregards logistics - available vs. non-available food.

    Reminiscent of the "links" between high voltage towers and various health issues that pop up from time to time.
  • AnnPT77
    AnnPT77 Posts: 34,617 Member
    cwolfman13 wrote: »
    Phirrgus wrote: »
    CSARdiver wrote: »
    I'm very suspect of such studies utilizing popular nebulous terms.

    I'm sure there are multiple correlative factors, but no meaningful causative factor.

    Terribly unhelpful as this furthers the body of misinformation distracting the public to the fact that weight gain is solely due to caloric surplus.

    The study doesn't seem to be focusing on obesity though. I'm sure it's a factor (mortality rates) but not the sole focus unless I misunderstood it?

    The problem is that when many people read this kind of stuff, they aren't thinking in terms of correlation only. So many other factors were left out...were they overweight/obese? That would increase mortality risk. Do the subjects exercise regularly? Lack of regular exercise also correlates with increased mortality risk. What was the subjects' diet like beyond the ultra-processed foods? Were they eating the recommended servings of veg and fruit? Etc, etc, etc.

    Something like this could lead to many people thinking the Kraft dinner they were going to have because they were short on time and needed something quick is going to kill them because "ultra-processed."

    I would wager that most people who have a diet that is substantially ultra-processed are probably not doing much in the way of protecting their health in general...I would wager that most would be overweight, lacking proper nutrition, probably don't exercise, and perhaps drink a lot and smoke. So would it be the ultra-processed food that is the issue or an otherwise unhealthy lifestyle overall?

    Abstract says:
    Ultraprocessed foods consumption was associated with younger age (45-64 years, mean [SE] proportion of food in weight, 14.50% [0.04%]; P < .001), lower income (<€1200/mo, 15.58% [0.11%]; P < .001), lower educational level (no diploma or primary school, 15.50% [0.16%]; P < .001), living alone (15.02% [0.07%]; P < .001), higher body mass index (calculated as weight in kilograms divided by height in meters squared; ≥30, 15.98% [0.11%]; P < .001), and lower physical activity level (15.56% [0.08%]; P < .001).

    I also wonder what some of the raw numbers look like. The abstract cites 44551 subjects and 602 deaths, which I'm assuming is the deaths within the whole group. 10% more mortality in a subgroup may still be a very small increase in actual mortality rate (dead people per thousand subjects, say).

    And they seemed to have reached their conclusion (14% more ultraprocessed foods means 10% greater mortality) after what they describe as "after adjustment for a range of confounding factors" . . . confounding factors not specfied in the abstract.

    Self-reported data, too. ("Participants were selected if they completed at least 1 set of 3 web-based 24-hour dietary records during their first 2 years of follow-up. Self-reported data were collected at baseline, including sociodemographic, lifestyle, physical activity, weight and height, and anthropometrics.")
  • Phirrgus
    Phirrgus Posts: 1,894 Member
    CSARdiver wrote: »
    Phirrgus wrote: »
    CSARdiver wrote: »
    I'm very suspect of such studies utilizing popular nebulous terms.

    I'm sure there are multiple correlative factors, but no meaningful causative factor.

    Terribly unhelpful as this furthers the body of misinformation distracting the public to the fact that weight gain is solely due to caloric surplus.

    The study doesn't seem to be focusing on obesity though. I'm sure it's a factor (mortality rates) but not the sole focus unless I misunderstood it?

    Precisely my point. A purposeful omission? The design of experience disregards the elements leading to mortality. The establishment of the control group is also remarkably vague and disregards logistics - available vs. non-available food.

    Reminiscent of the "links" between high voltage towers and various health issues that pop up from time to time.

    Ah ok, understood. Thanks for taking the time to explain :)
  • Phirrgus
    Phirrgus Posts: 1,894 Member
    kimny72 wrote: »
    Phirrgus wrote: »
    CSARdiver wrote: »
    I'm very suspect of such studies utilizing popular nebulous terms.

    I'm sure there are multiple correlative factors, but no meaningful causative factor.

    Terribly unhelpful as this furthers the body of misinformation distracting the public to the fact that weight gain is solely due to caloric surplus.

    The study doesn't seem to be focusing on obesity though. I'm sure it's a factor (mortality rates) but not the sole focus unless I misunderstood it?

    I think that's the point though. Unless you are looking at young adults (and probably even for them), most folks eating a diet high in ultraprocessed food will be eating too many cals for their activity level and will be, if not obese, then overweight. Which immediately increases their mortality risk. So people will read the study overview and say "Aha! Processed food will kill you!" rather than "Aha! Eating mostly processed foods means you have to eat too many calories to feel satisfied which makes you obese! I should make sure I moderate those foods with more nutrient dense whole foods so I can maintain a healthy weight and reduce my mortality risk!" :wink:
    cwolfman13 wrote: »
    Phirrgus wrote: »
    CSARdiver wrote: »
    I'm very suspect of such studies utilizing popular nebulous terms.

    I'm sure there are multiple correlative factors, but no meaningful causative factor.

    Terribly unhelpful as this furthers the body of misinformation distracting the public to the fact that weight gain is solely due to caloric surplus.

    The study doesn't seem to be focusing on obesity though. I'm sure it's a factor (mortality rates) but not the sole focus unless I misunderstood it?

    The problem is that when many people read this kind of stuff, they aren't thinking in terms of correlation only. So many other factors were left out...were they overweight/obese? That would increase mortality risk. Do the subjects exercise regularly? Lack of regular exercise also correlates with increased mortality risk. What was the subjects' diet like beyond the ultra-processed foods? Were they eating the recommended servings of veg and fruit? Etc, etc, etc.

    Something like this could lead to many people thinking the Kraft dinner they were going to have because they were short on time and needed something quick is going to kill them because "ultra-processed."

    I would wager that most people who have a diet that is substantially ultra-processed are probably not doing much in the way of protecting their health in general...I would wager that most would be overweight, lacking proper nutrition, probably don't exercise, and perhaps drink a lot and smoke. So would it be the ultra-processed food that is the issue or an otherwise unhealthy lifestyle overall?

    Thank you folks - this is where my obvious lack of knowledge makes itself apparent. I do appreciate the explainations though, thanks.
  • try2again
    try2again Posts: 3,562 Member
    Phirrgus wrote: »
    kimny72 wrote: »
    Phirrgus wrote: »
    CSARdiver wrote: »
    I'm very suspect of such studies utilizing popular nebulous terms.

    I'm sure there are multiple correlative factors, but no meaningful causative factor.

    Terribly unhelpful as this furthers the body of misinformation distracting the public to the fact that weight gain is solely due to caloric surplus.

    The study doesn't seem to be focusing on obesity though. I'm sure it's a factor (mortality rates) but not the sole focus unless I misunderstood it?

    I think that's the point though. Unless you are looking at young adults (and probably even for them), most folks eating a diet high in ultraprocessed food will be eating too many cals for their activity level and will be, if not obese, then overweight. Which immediately increases their mortality risk. So people will read the study overview and say "Aha! Processed food will kill you!" rather than "Aha! Eating mostly processed foods means you have to eat too many calories to feel satisfied which makes you obese! I should make sure I moderate those foods with more nutrient dense whole foods so I can maintain a healthy weight and reduce my mortality risk!" :wink:
    cwolfman13 wrote: »
    Phirrgus wrote: »
    CSARdiver wrote: »
    I'm very suspect of such studies utilizing popular nebulous terms.

    I'm sure there are multiple correlative factors, but no meaningful causative factor.

    Terribly unhelpful as this furthers the body of misinformation distracting the public to the fact that weight gain is solely due to caloric surplus.

    The study doesn't seem to be focusing on obesity though. I'm sure it's a factor (mortality rates) but not the sole focus unless I misunderstood it?

    The problem is that when many people read this kind of stuff, they aren't thinking in terms of correlation only. So many other factors were left out...were they overweight/obese? That would increase mortality risk. Do the subjects exercise regularly? Lack of regular exercise also correlates with increased mortality risk. What was the subjects' diet like beyond the ultra-processed foods? Were they eating the recommended servings of veg and fruit? Etc, etc, etc.

    Something like this could lead to many people thinking the Kraft dinner they were going to have because they were short on time and needed something quick is going to kill them because "ultra-processed."

    I would wager that most people who have a diet that is substantially ultra-processed are probably not doing much in the way of protecting their health in general...I would wager that most would be overweight, lacking proper nutrition, probably don't exercise, and perhaps drink a lot and smoke. So would it be the ultra-processed food that is the issue or an otherwise unhealthy lifestyle overall?

    Thank you folks - this is where my obvious lack of knowledge makes itself apparent. I do appreciate the explainations though, thanks.

    I started the thread in the first place in the hopes of comments/discussion that would broaden my knowledge, so your contributions help :)
  • Phirrgus
    Phirrgus Posts: 1,894 Member
    try2again wrote: »
    Phirrgus wrote: »
    kimny72 wrote: »
    Phirrgus wrote: »
    CSARdiver wrote: »
    I'm very suspect of such studies utilizing popular nebulous terms.

    I'm sure there are multiple correlative factors, but no meaningful causative factor.

    Terribly unhelpful as this furthers the body of misinformation distracting the public to the fact that weight gain is solely due to caloric surplus.

    The study doesn't seem to be focusing on obesity though. I'm sure it's a factor (mortality rates) but not the sole focus unless I misunderstood it?

    I think that's the point though. Unless you are looking at young adults (and probably even for them), most folks eating a diet high in ultraprocessed food will be eating too many cals for their activity level and will be, if not obese, then overweight. Which immediately increases their mortality risk. So people will read the study overview and say "Aha! Processed food will kill you!" rather than "Aha! Eating mostly processed foods means you have to eat too many calories to feel satisfied which makes you obese! I should make sure I moderate those foods with more nutrient dense whole foods so I can maintain a healthy weight and reduce my mortality risk!" :wink:
    cwolfman13 wrote: »
    Phirrgus wrote: »
    CSARdiver wrote: »
    I'm very suspect of such studies utilizing popular nebulous terms.

    I'm sure there are multiple correlative factors, but no meaningful causative factor.

    Terribly unhelpful as this furthers the body of misinformation distracting the public to the fact that weight gain is solely due to caloric surplus.

    The study doesn't seem to be focusing on obesity though. I'm sure it's a factor (mortality rates) but not the sole focus unless I misunderstood it?

    The problem is that when many people read this kind of stuff, they aren't thinking in terms of correlation only. So many other factors were left out...were they overweight/obese? That would increase mortality risk. Do the subjects exercise regularly? Lack of regular exercise also correlates with increased mortality risk. What was the subjects' diet like beyond the ultra-processed foods? Were they eating the recommended servings of veg and fruit? Etc, etc, etc.

    Something like this could lead to many people thinking the Kraft dinner they were going to have because they were short on time and needed something quick is going to kill them because "ultra-processed."

    I would wager that most people who have a diet that is substantially ultra-processed are probably not doing much in the way of protecting their health in general...I would wager that most would be overweight, lacking proper nutrition, probably don't exercise, and perhaps drink a lot and smoke. So would it be the ultra-processed food that is the issue or an otherwise unhealthy lifestyle overall?

    Thank you folks - this is where my obvious lack of knowledge makes itself apparent. I do appreciate the explainations though, thanks.

    I started the thread in the first place in the hopes of comments/discussion that would broaden my knowledge, so your contributions help :)

    Thanks :)

    My critical thinking skills could use a bit of sharpening anyway lol.
  • lemurcat2
    lemurcat2 Posts: 7,885 Member
    While I agree that there is not a terribly large amount of room for ultra-processed foods in a nutrient-dense, healthy diet, my hackles just rise when I see things like "ice cream" and "burgers" wrapped in there. When I make ice cream, it is cream, milk, sugar, salt and egg yolks, plus whatever fruit is growing in my yard--strawberries, blackberries, peaches, rhubarb. Burgers are just ground beef, eggs, maybe some breadcrumbs, and spices.

    One of the problems is the 'ultra-processing" of the research into the media that is actually consumed by most Americans. This pablum is as bad for your mind as blocks of Velveeta are for your body.* So you get people saying that ALL pizza, ice cream, burgers, fries, cookies, etc. are OF THE DEVIL!!!**, when the researchers are just pointing out the hyperpalatable goods that have been pumped full of additives and stripped of many nutrients and fiber, not the fries etc. that you make at home just by, you know, slicing potatoes and crisping them in some olive oil.

    Couldn't agree more.

    And I really think a big part of the issue of ultraprocessed foods is that when you have to, say, make french fries or ice cream or pie at home, it's more time consuming, limited usually to a particular meal or event, something that is likely to be more appreciated and less likely to be eaten mindlessly without satisfaction. And for many or most people having to cook those kinds of foods would make them more conscious of how much they are eating and they would do it less often.

    If you can go to the store and buy (or call and order) food every day, any time of day, it's likely to be overeaten more, or -- for some people -- eaten to the exclusion of the huge variety of other foods that one ought to be eating as part of their diet.
  • GottaBurnEmAll
    GottaBurnEmAll Posts: 7,722 Member
    edited February 2019

    *Pasturized Process Cheese Products DO have their uses, however, including gettin' in my belly on a legit Philly Cheesesteak: https://www.bonappetit.com/story/what-is-processed-cheese

    Old Philly native here. Cheeze Whiz on cheesesteaks is a relatively recent "thing" and even though I don't even eat them any more, it can get off my lawn. Legit cheesesteaks should have provolone cheese on them. :p

  • kimny72
    kimny72 Posts: 16,011 Member

    *Pasturized Process Cheese Products DO have their uses, however, including gettin' in my belly on a legit Philly Cheesesteak: https://www.bonappetit.com/story/what-is-processed-cheese

    Old Philly native here. Cheeze Whiz on cheesesteaks is a relatively recent "thing" and even though I don't even eat them any more, it can get off my lawn. Legit cheesesteaks should have provolone cheese on them. :p

    Provolone, interesting. Note to self: must try :tongue:
This discussion has been closed.