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Ultraprocessed food and increased mortality risk?
try2again
Posts: 3,562 Member
in Debate Club
Came across this and thought I'd put it out there for discussion:
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/article-abstract/2723626?utm_campaign=articlePDF&utm_medium=articlePDFlink&utm_source=articlePDF&utm_content=jamainternmed.2018.7289
I don't feel knowledgeable enough about the subject to comment on it, but am interested to hear others' thoughts.
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/article-abstract/2723626?utm_campaign=articlePDF&utm_medium=articlePDFlink&utm_source=articlePDF&utm_content=jamainternmed.2018.7289
I don't feel knowledgeable enough about the subject to comment on it, but am interested to hear others' thoughts.
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Replies
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Makes sense. Why would anyone a diet high in anything "ultraprocessed" would imply better health? This almost seems a no-brainer.6
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I'll also link an interesting post from @Aaron_K123
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10652594/the-issue-with-processed-foods-opinion/p1
Question: what's the difference between processed and ultraprocessed?5 -
I think in general, if you are eating a diet high in ultraprocessed food, you are probably eating a diet high in sodium, sugar, trans fat, and sat fat, and low in protein, fiber, and unsat fat. Also probably calorie dense and nutrient poor. So that would again probably lead to obesity, along with other lifestyle diseases. And there is probably a correlation between people who eat lots of "snacky" convenience foods and not being active.
Note all the probably's So I think the correlation makes sense.
Having said that, I think it's certainly possible to fit some ultraprocessed foods into a healthy diet, and I think if someone were hyper-aware they could find some ultraprocessed foods that have reasonable macro and micro profiles.13 -
I'll also link an interesting post from @Aaron_K123
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10652594/the-issue-with-processed-foods-opinion/p1
Question: what's the difference between processed and ultraprocessed?
From what I understand they considered ultraprocessed as "grab and go" where processed may be like Hamburger Helper? I couldn't open the entire article so just my guess.0 -
I'll also link an interesting post from @Aaron_K123
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10652594/the-issue-with-processed-foods-opinion/p1
Question: what's the difference between processed and ultraprocessed?
I believe someone out there in the world coined the term ultraprocessed to differentiate between lightly processed foods like yogurt or roasted nuts and what most people would consider junk food. I don't believe there's a clear definition, yet I am starting to see scientific sources throw the word around like there is. So maybe there is?
Perhaps if someone is able to get into the full text they define how they used the term for that study.1 -
I'll also link an interesting post from @Aaron_K123
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10652594/the-issue-with-processed-foods-opinion/p1
Question: what's the difference between processed and ultraprocessed?
From what I understand they considered ultraprocessed as "grab and go" where processed may be like Hamburger Helper? I couldn't open the entire article so just my guess.
Bummer... I actually posted the thread before I realized the full text was subscription only.0 -
Here is what a quick search found:
Ultra-processed foods: Here’s the category where almost 50% of our calories come from – and where we should cut back. These foods go through multiple processes (extrusion, molding, milling, etc.), contain many added ingredients and are highly manipulated. Examples are soft drinks, chips, chocolate, candy, ice-cream, sweetened breakfast cereals, packaged soups, chicken nuggets, hotdogs, fries and more.
https://www.heartandstroke.ca/articles/what-is-ultra-processed-food4 -
If you're craving cheese and don't want the extra fat, then ultra processed is the way to go. In the instance of milk, fairlife for example, it just means they are removing the lactase (something like that) sugar molecules, which lowers the carb content, and raises the protein concentration. Those are the only two positives I can think of off-hand.0
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I'll also link an interesting post from @Aaron_K123
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10652594/the-issue-with-processed-foods-opinion/p1
Question: what's the difference between processed and ultraprocessed?
I believe someone out there in the world coined the term ultraprocessed to differentiate between lightly processed foods like yogurt or roasted nuts and what most people would consider junk food. I don't believe there's a clear definition, yet I am starting to see scientific sources throw the word around like there is. So maybe there is?
Perhaps if someone is able to get into the full text they define how they used the term for that study.
The one that I see most frequently using the 'ultra' label is the Brazilian government in their description of what people should be eating - like their version of the food pyramid/my plate. The examples that they give for 'ultra' processed are usually things like candy bars and other sweets, confections (like muffins and cup cakes) and the like and 'fast foods'. They consider processed foods to be things like prepared meals (frozen dinners), pasta, whole-grain bread and items like that. They do not count beans, brown rice, quinoa, frozen fruit and the like as processed - although white rice is processed (stripping off the hull) and white breads are considered ultra-processed (I think).0 -
I'll also link an interesting post from @Aaron_K123
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10652594/the-issue-with-processed-foods-opinion/p1
Question: what's the difference between processed and ultraprocessed?
Perhaps if someone is able to get into the full text they define how they used the term for that study.
Duh... it said right there in the article that it's from the NOVA food classification system, which says this:
"In 2009, in a commentary signed by one of us (1), we argued that the extent and
purpose of food processing had changed globally, and that these changes were
driving the emergence of a harmful global food system and the pandemic of obesity
and other nutrition-related chronic non-communicable diseases. We also argued that
classifying foods into two groups of unprocessed and processed foods is useless,
because most foods as now consumed are processed in some way. We then proposed
a new system to classify foods and food products based on the extent and purpose of
the industrial processes applied to preserve, extract, modify or create them.
The new classification, detailed in a later paper (2), included one group made up of
snacks, drinks, ready meals and many other products created mostly or entirely from
substances extracted from foods or derived from food constituents with little if any
intact food, which often contain flavours, colours and other additives that imitate or
intensify the sensory qualities of foods or culinary preparations made from foods.
The formulation and the ingredients of these products make them highly convenient
(ready-to-consume), highly attractive (hyper-palatable), highly profitable (low cost
ingredients), and – of great importance – highly competitive with foods that are
naturally ready to consume and freshly prepared dishes and meals. As a result of their
formulation, products belonging to this food group are intrinsically nutrientunbalanced and tend to be consumed in great amounts. We termed this group ‘ultraprocessed food and drink products’ (1,2)."
4 -
I'll also link an interesting post from @Aaron_K123
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10652594/the-issue-with-processed-foods-opinion/p1
Question: what's the difference between processed and ultraprocessed?
From the article...Exposures The ultraprocessed foods group (from the NOVA food classification system), characterized as ready-to-eat or -heat formulations made mostly from ingredients usually combined with additives.
So I would think ultra-processed would be frozen, ready to eat meals, Mac 'n cheese in a box, frozen pizzas...pretty much anything in the freezer section that you can just heat up real quick, fast food, etc. Whereas things like milk, cheese, canned beans, tuna, etc are processed, but not to such an extent.
I think the correlation makes sense. Such a diet would be lacking nutritionally and someone eating such a diet would not likely be doing anything much for their health like regular exercise and probably would have other unhealthy habits that are engaged in routinely.5 -
I'm very suspect of such studies utilizing popular nebulous terms.
I'm sure there are multiple correlative factors, but no meaningful causative factor.
Terribly unhelpful as this furthers the body of misinformation distracting the public to the fact that weight gain is solely due to caloric surplus.9 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »I'll also link an interesting post from @Aaron_K123
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10652594/the-issue-with-processed-foods-opinion/p1
Question: what's the difference between processed and ultraprocessed?
From the article...Exposures The ultraprocessed foods group (from the NOVA food classification system), characterized as ready-to-eat or -heat formulations made mostly from ingredients usually combined with additives.
So I would think ultra-processed would be frozen, ready to eat meals, Mac 'n cheese in a box, frozen pizzas...pretty much anything in the freezer section that you can just heat up real quick, fast food, etc. Whereas things like milk, cheese, canned beans, tuna, etc are processed, but not to such an extent.
I think the correlation makes sense. Such a diet would be lacking nutritionally and someone eating such a diet would not likely be doing anything much for their health like regular exercise and probably would have other unhealthy habits that are engaged in routinely.
Yes, you're right. I'm a good illustration of how people have different ideas of what is meant when people say "processed" food. I don't think of things like milk & beans when I think of "processed" food in the first place, so the difference between what would be considered "processed" and "ultraprocessed" confused me.
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I'm very suspect of such studies utilizing popular nebulous terms.
I'm sure there are multiple correlative factors, but no meaningful causative factor.
Terribly unhelpful as this furthers the body of misinformation distracting the public to the fact that weight gain is solely due to caloric surplus.
The study doesn't seem to be focusing on obesity though. I'm sure it's a factor (mortality rates) but not the sole focus unless I misunderstood it?0 -
I'm very suspect of such studies utilizing popular nebulous terms.
I'm sure there are multiple correlative factors, but no meaningful causative factor.
Terribly unhelpful as this furthers the body of misinformation distracting the public to the fact that weight gain is solely due to caloric surplus.
I originally found the study mentioned here:
https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/11/health/ultraprocessed-foods-early-death-study/index.html
and this came to mind:
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I'm very suspect of such studies utilizing popular nebulous terms.
I'm sure there are multiple correlative factors, but no meaningful causative factor.
Terribly unhelpful as this furthers the body of misinformation distracting the public to the fact that weight gain is solely due to caloric surplus.
The study doesn't seem to be focusing on obesity though. I'm sure it's a factor (mortality rates) but not the sole focus unless I misunderstood it?
Precisely my point. A purposeful omission? The design of experience disregards the elements leading to mortality. The establishment of the control group is also remarkably vague and disregards logistics - available vs. non-available food.
Reminiscent of the "links" between high voltage towers and various health issues that pop up from time to time.3 -
I'm very suspect of such studies utilizing popular nebulous terms.
I'm sure there are multiple correlative factors, but no meaningful causative factor.
Terribly unhelpful as this furthers the body of misinformation distracting the public to the fact that weight gain is solely due to caloric surplus.
The study doesn't seem to be focusing on obesity though. I'm sure it's a factor (mortality rates) but not the sole focus unless I misunderstood it?
I think that's the point though. Unless you are looking at young adults (and probably even for them), most folks eating a diet high in ultraprocessed food will be eating too many cals for their activity level and will be, if not obese, then overweight. Which immediately increases their mortality risk. So people will read the study overview and say "Aha! Processed food will kill you!" rather than "Aha! Eating mostly processed foods means you have to eat too many calories to feel satisfied which makes you obese! I should make sure I moderate those foods with more nutrient dense whole foods so I can maintain a healthy weight and reduce my mortality risk!"
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There are a few ultra-processed staples I rely on to help me hit certain nutritional goals. For example, one brand of veggie dog comes in at 50 calories each, 8 grams of protein, 15% of my iron RDA. I'm vegetarian and protein is one of those things I can easily underdo if I don't watch. Other foods that help me include Simply Protein "chips", Fiber One bars, some single serve ice cream treats (I go for the ones under 200 calories), and a couple of dry sweetened—though not overly sugary—cereals.
I get in plenty of home-cooked foods, fruits and veg too. But I'm not prepared to cut out the processed foods that help me meet my goals and are also pretty darn satiating.8 -
While I agree that there is not a terribly large amount of room for ultra-processed foods in a nutrient-dense, healthy diet, my hackles just rise when I see things like "ice cream" and "burgers" wrapped in there. When I make ice cream, it is cream, milk, sugar, salt and egg yolks, plus whatever fruit is growing in my yard--strawberries, blackberries, peaches, rhubarb. Burgers are just ground beef, eggs, maybe some breadcrumbs, and spices.
One of the problems is the 'ultra-processing" of the research into the media that is actually consumed by most Americans. This pablum is as bad for your mind as blocks of Velveeta are for your body.* So you get people saying that ALL pizza, ice cream, burgers, fries, cookies, etc. are OF THE DEVIL!!!**, when the researchers are just pointing out the hyperpalatable goods that have been pumped full of additives and stripped of many nutrients and fiber, not the fries etc. that you make at home just by, you know, slicing potatoes and crisping them in some olive oil.
The heartandhealth article linked above completely misrepresents what NOVA is actually saying, although they do provide the reader the courtesy of linking to the NOVA information.
Below is the full NOVA definition of ultra-processed food; bolding is mine.
"The fourth NOVA group is of ultra-processed food and drink products. These are industrial
formulations typically with five or more and usually many ingredients. Such ingredients often
include those also used in processed foods, such as sugar, oils, fats, salt, anti-oxidants,
stabilisers, and preservatives. Ingredients only found in ultra-processed products include
substances not commonly used in culinary preparations, and additives whose purpose is to
imitate sensory qualities of group 1 foods or of culinary preparations of these foods, or to
disguise undesirable sensory qualities of the final product. Group 1 foods are a small
proportion of or are even absent from ultra-processed products.
Substances only found in ultra-processed products include some directly extracted from
foods, such as casein, lactose, whey, and gluten, and some derived from further processing
of food constituents, such as hydrogenated or interesterified oils, hydrolysed proteins, soy
protein isolate, maltodextrin, invert sugar and high fructose corn syrup. Classes of additive
only found in ultra-processed products include dyes and other colours, colour stabilisers,
flavours, flavour enhancers, non-sugar sweeteners, and processing aids such as
carbonating, firming, bulking and anti-bulking, de-foaming, anti-caking and glazing agents,
emulsifiers, sequestrants and humectants.
Several industrial processes with no domestic equivalents are used in the manufacture of
ultra-processed products, such as extrusion and moulding, and pre-processing for frying.
The main purpose of industrial ultra-processing is to create products that are ready to eat, to
drink or to heat, liable to replace both unprocessed or minimally processed foods that are
naturally ready to consume, such as fruits and nuts, milk and water, and freshly prepared
drinks, dishes, desserts and meals. Common attributes of ultra-processed products are
hyper-palatability, sophisticated and attractive packaging, multi-media and other aggressive
marketing to children and adolescents, health claims, high profitability, and branding and
ownership by transnational corporations.
Examples of typical ultra-processed products are: carbonated drinks; sweet or savoury
packaged snacks; ice-cream, chocolate, candies (confectionery); mass-produced packaged
breads and buns; margarines and spreads; cookies (biscuits), pastries, cakes, and cake
mixes; breakfast ‘cereals’, ‘cereal’ and ‘energy’ bars; ‘energy’ drinks; milk drinks, ‘fruit’
yoghurts and ‘fruit’ drinks; cocoa drinks; meat and chicken extracts and ‘instant’ sauces;
infant formulas, follow-on milks, other baby products; ‘health’ and ‘slimming’ products such
as powdered or ‘fortified’ meal and dish substitutes; and many ready to heat products
including pre-prepared pies and pasta and pizza dishes; poultry and fish ‘nuggets’ and
‘sticks’, sausages, burgers, hot dogs, and other reconstituted meat products, and powdered
and packaged ‘instant’ soups, noodles and desserts.
When products made solely of group 1 or group 3 foods also contain cosmetic or sensory
intensifying additives, such as plain yoghurt with added artificial sweeteners, and breads
with added emulsifiers, they are classified here in group 4. When alcoholic drinks are
identified as foods, those produced by fermentation of group 1 foods followed by distillation
of the resulting alcohol, such as whisky, gin, rum, vodka, are classified in group 4."
*Pasturized Process Cheese Products DO have their uses, however, including gettin' in my belly on a legit Philly Cheesesteak: https://www.bonappetit.com/story/what-is-processed-cheese
**I would like to point out one food that is, indeed, of the devil. This would be Biscoff Cookie Butter. Preferably slathered onto actual Biscoff cookies. SATAN. INCARNATE. (And delicious!)6 -
I'm very suspect of such studies utilizing popular nebulous terms.
I'm sure there are multiple correlative factors, but no meaningful causative factor.
Terribly unhelpful as this furthers the body of misinformation distracting the public to the fact that weight gain is solely due to caloric surplus.
The study doesn't seem to be focusing on obesity though. I'm sure it's a factor (mortality rates) but not the sole focus unless I misunderstood it?
The problem is that when many people read this kind of stuff, they aren't thinking in terms of correlation only. So many other factors were left out...were they overweight/obese? That would increase mortality risk. Do the subjects exercise regularly? Lack of regular exercise also correlates with increased mortality risk. What was the subjects' diet like beyond the ultra-processed foods? Were they eating the recommended servings of veg and fruit? Etc, etc, etc.
Something like this could lead to many people thinking the Kraft dinner they were going to have because they were short on time and needed something quick is going to kill them because "ultra-processed."
I would wager that most people who have a diet that is substantially ultra-processed are probably not doing much in the way of protecting their health in general...I would wager that most would be overweight, lacking proper nutrition, probably don't exercise, and perhaps drink a lot and smoke. So would it be the ultra-processed food that is the issue or an otherwise unhealthy lifestyle overall?9 -
I think in general, if you are eating a diet high in ultraprocessed food, you are probably eating a diet high in sodium, sugar, trans fat, and sat fat, and low in protein, fiber, and unsat fat. Also probably calorie dense and nutrient poor. So that would again probably lead to obesity, along with other lifestyle diseases. And there is probably a correlation between people who eat lots of "snacky" convenience foods and not being active.
Note all the probably's So I think the correlation makes sense.
Having said that, I think it's certainly possible to fit some ultraprocessed foods into a healthy diet, and I think if someone were hyper-aware they could find some ultraprocessed foods that have reasonable macro and micro profiles.
I have a hard time thinking of most protein powder as anything other than "ultraprocessed", by any sensible definition of the term.
That doesn't mean I think people shouldn't consume it: It seems to help lots of people reach their protein goals.
It does amuse the *baby feline* out of me when people in some posts demonize "processed foods" in favor of "whole foods", but think protein powder is Just Swell.11 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »I'm very suspect of such studies utilizing popular nebulous terms.
I'm sure there are multiple correlative factors, but no meaningful causative factor.
Terribly unhelpful as this furthers the body of misinformation distracting the public to the fact that weight gain is solely due to caloric surplus.
The study doesn't seem to be focusing on obesity though. I'm sure it's a factor (mortality rates) but not the sole focus unless I misunderstood it?
The problem is that when many people read this kind of stuff, they aren't thinking in terms of correlation only. So many other factors were left out...were they overweight/obese? That would increase mortality risk. Do the subjects exercise regularly? Lack of regular exercise also correlates with increased mortality risk. What was the subjects' diet like beyond the ultra-processed foods? Were they eating the recommended servings of veg and fruit? Etc, etc, etc.
Something like this could lead to many people thinking the Kraft dinner they were going to have because they were short on time and needed something quick is going to kill them because "ultra-processed."
I would wager that most people who have a diet that is substantially ultra-processed are probably not doing much in the way of protecting their health in general...I would wager that most would be overweight, lacking proper nutrition, probably don't exercise, and perhaps drink a lot and smoke. So would it be the ultra-processed food that is the issue or an otherwise unhealthy lifestyle overall?
Abstract says:Ultraprocessed foods consumption was associated with younger age (45-64 years, mean [SE] proportion of food in weight, 14.50% [0.04%]; P < .001), lower income (<€1200/mo, 15.58% [0.11%]; P < .001), lower educational level (no diploma or primary school, 15.50% [0.16%]; P < .001), living alone (15.02% [0.07%]; P < .001), higher body mass index (calculated as weight in kilograms divided by height in meters squared; ≥30, 15.98% [0.11%]; P < .001), and lower physical activity level (15.56% [0.08%]; P < .001).
I also wonder what some of the raw numbers look like. The abstract cites 44551 subjects and 602 deaths, which I'm assuming is the deaths within the whole group. 10% more mortality in a subgroup may still be a very small increase in actual mortality rate (dead people per thousand subjects, say).
And they seemed to have reached their conclusion (14% more ultraprocessed foods means 10% greater mortality) after what they describe as "after adjustment for a range of confounding factors" . . . confounding factors not specfied in the abstract.
Self-reported data, too. ("Participants were selected if they completed at least 1 set of 3 web-based 24-hour dietary records during their first 2 years of follow-up. Self-reported data were collected at baseline, including sociodemographic, lifestyle, physical activity, weight and height, and anthropometrics.")2 -
I'm very suspect of such studies utilizing popular nebulous terms.
I'm sure there are multiple correlative factors, but no meaningful causative factor.
Terribly unhelpful as this furthers the body of misinformation distracting the public to the fact that weight gain is solely due to caloric surplus.
The study doesn't seem to be focusing on obesity though. I'm sure it's a factor (mortality rates) but not the sole focus unless I misunderstood it?
Precisely my point. A purposeful omission? The design of experience disregards the elements leading to mortality. The establishment of the control group is also remarkably vague and disregards logistics - available vs. non-available food.
Reminiscent of the "links" between high voltage towers and various health issues that pop up from time to time.
Ah ok, understood. Thanks for taking the time to explain 1 -
I'm very suspect of such studies utilizing popular nebulous terms.
I'm sure there are multiple correlative factors, but no meaningful causative factor.
Terribly unhelpful as this furthers the body of misinformation distracting the public to the fact that weight gain is solely due to caloric surplus.
The study doesn't seem to be focusing on obesity though. I'm sure it's a factor (mortality rates) but not the sole focus unless I misunderstood it?
I think that's the point though. Unless you are looking at young adults (and probably even for them), most folks eating a diet high in ultraprocessed food will be eating too many cals for their activity level and will be, if not obese, then overweight. Which immediately increases their mortality risk. So people will read the study overview and say "Aha! Processed food will kill you!" rather than "Aha! Eating mostly processed foods means you have to eat too many calories to feel satisfied which makes you obese! I should make sure I moderate those foods with more nutrient dense whole foods so I can maintain a healthy weight and reduce my mortality risk!"cwolfman13 wrote: »I'm very suspect of such studies utilizing popular nebulous terms.
I'm sure there are multiple correlative factors, but no meaningful causative factor.
Terribly unhelpful as this furthers the body of misinformation distracting the public to the fact that weight gain is solely due to caloric surplus.
The study doesn't seem to be focusing on obesity though. I'm sure it's a factor (mortality rates) but not the sole focus unless I misunderstood it?
The problem is that when many people read this kind of stuff, they aren't thinking in terms of correlation only. So many other factors were left out...were they overweight/obese? That would increase mortality risk. Do the subjects exercise regularly? Lack of regular exercise also correlates with increased mortality risk. What was the subjects' diet like beyond the ultra-processed foods? Were they eating the recommended servings of veg and fruit? Etc, etc, etc.
Something like this could lead to many people thinking the Kraft dinner they were going to have because they were short on time and needed something quick is going to kill them because "ultra-processed."
I would wager that most people who have a diet that is substantially ultra-processed are probably not doing much in the way of protecting their health in general...I would wager that most would be overweight, lacking proper nutrition, probably don't exercise, and perhaps drink a lot and smoke. So would it be the ultra-processed food that is the issue or an otherwise unhealthy lifestyle overall?
Thank you folks - this is where my obvious lack of knowledge makes itself apparent. I do appreciate the explainations though, thanks.1 -
I'm very suspect of such studies utilizing popular nebulous terms.
I'm sure there are multiple correlative factors, but no meaningful causative factor.
Terribly unhelpful as this furthers the body of misinformation distracting the public to the fact that weight gain is solely due to caloric surplus.
The study doesn't seem to be focusing on obesity though. I'm sure it's a factor (mortality rates) but not the sole focus unless I misunderstood it?
I think that's the point though. Unless you are looking at young adults (and probably even for them), most folks eating a diet high in ultraprocessed food will be eating too many cals for their activity level and will be, if not obese, then overweight. Which immediately increases their mortality risk. So people will read the study overview and say "Aha! Processed food will kill you!" rather than "Aha! Eating mostly processed foods means you have to eat too many calories to feel satisfied which makes you obese! I should make sure I moderate those foods with more nutrient dense whole foods so I can maintain a healthy weight and reduce my mortality risk!"cwolfman13 wrote: »I'm very suspect of such studies utilizing popular nebulous terms.
I'm sure there are multiple correlative factors, but no meaningful causative factor.
Terribly unhelpful as this furthers the body of misinformation distracting the public to the fact that weight gain is solely due to caloric surplus.
The study doesn't seem to be focusing on obesity though. I'm sure it's a factor (mortality rates) but not the sole focus unless I misunderstood it?
The problem is that when many people read this kind of stuff, they aren't thinking in terms of correlation only. So many other factors were left out...were they overweight/obese? That would increase mortality risk. Do the subjects exercise regularly? Lack of regular exercise also correlates with increased mortality risk. What was the subjects' diet like beyond the ultra-processed foods? Were they eating the recommended servings of veg and fruit? Etc, etc, etc.
Something like this could lead to many people thinking the Kraft dinner they were going to have because they were short on time and needed something quick is going to kill them because "ultra-processed."
I would wager that most people who have a diet that is substantially ultra-processed are probably not doing much in the way of protecting their health in general...I would wager that most would be overweight, lacking proper nutrition, probably don't exercise, and perhaps drink a lot and smoke. So would it be the ultra-processed food that is the issue or an otherwise unhealthy lifestyle overall?
Thank you folks - this is where my obvious lack of knowledge makes itself apparent. I do appreciate the explainations though, thanks.
I started the thread in the first place in the hopes of comments/discussion that would broaden my knowledge, so your contributions help 3 -
I'm very suspect of such studies utilizing popular nebulous terms.
I'm sure there are multiple correlative factors, but no meaningful causative factor.
Terribly unhelpful as this furthers the body of misinformation distracting the public to the fact that weight gain is solely due to caloric surplus.
The study doesn't seem to be focusing on obesity though. I'm sure it's a factor (mortality rates) but not the sole focus unless I misunderstood it?
I think that's the point though. Unless you are looking at young adults (and probably even for them), most folks eating a diet high in ultraprocessed food will be eating too many cals for their activity level and will be, if not obese, then overweight. Which immediately increases their mortality risk. So people will read the study overview and say "Aha! Processed food will kill you!" rather than "Aha! Eating mostly processed foods means you have to eat too many calories to feel satisfied which makes you obese! I should make sure I moderate those foods with more nutrient dense whole foods so I can maintain a healthy weight and reduce my mortality risk!"cwolfman13 wrote: »I'm very suspect of such studies utilizing popular nebulous terms.
I'm sure there are multiple correlative factors, but no meaningful causative factor.
Terribly unhelpful as this furthers the body of misinformation distracting the public to the fact that weight gain is solely due to caloric surplus.
The study doesn't seem to be focusing on obesity though. I'm sure it's a factor (mortality rates) but not the sole focus unless I misunderstood it?
The problem is that when many people read this kind of stuff, they aren't thinking in terms of correlation only. So many other factors were left out...were they overweight/obese? That would increase mortality risk. Do the subjects exercise regularly? Lack of regular exercise also correlates with increased mortality risk. What was the subjects' diet like beyond the ultra-processed foods? Were they eating the recommended servings of veg and fruit? Etc, etc, etc.
Something like this could lead to many people thinking the Kraft dinner they were going to have because they were short on time and needed something quick is going to kill them because "ultra-processed."
I would wager that most people who have a diet that is substantially ultra-processed are probably not doing much in the way of protecting their health in general...I would wager that most would be overweight, lacking proper nutrition, probably don't exercise, and perhaps drink a lot and smoke. So would it be the ultra-processed food that is the issue or an otherwise unhealthy lifestyle overall?
Thank you folks - this is where my obvious lack of knowledge makes itself apparent. I do appreciate the explainations though, thanks.
I started the thread in the first place in the hopes of comments/discussion that would broaden my knowledge, so your contributions help
Thanks
My critical thinking skills could use a bit of sharpening anyway lol.0 -
French_Peasant wrote: »While I agree that there is not a terribly large amount of room for ultra-processed foods in a nutrient-dense, healthy diet, my hackles just rise when I see things like "ice cream" and "burgers" wrapped in there. When I make ice cream, it is cream, milk, sugar, salt and egg yolks, plus whatever fruit is growing in my yard--strawberries, blackberries, peaches, rhubarb. Burgers are just ground beef, eggs, maybe some breadcrumbs, and spices.
One of the problems is the 'ultra-processing" of the research into the media that is actually consumed by most Americans. This pablum is as bad for your mind as blocks of Velveeta are for your body.* So you get people saying that ALL pizza, ice cream, burgers, fries, cookies, etc. are OF THE DEVIL!!!**, when the researchers are just pointing out the hyperpalatable goods that have been pumped full of additives and stripped of many nutrients and fiber, not the fries etc. that you make at home just by, you know, slicing potatoes and crisping them in some olive oil.
Couldn't agree more.
And I really think a big part of the issue of ultraprocessed foods is that when you have to, say, make french fries or ice cream or pie at home, it's more time consuming, limited usually to a particular meal or event, something that is likely to be more appreciated and less likely to be eaten mindlessly without satisfaction. And for many or most people having to cook those kinds of foods would make them more conscious of how much they are eating and they would do it less often.
If you can go to the store and buy (or call and order) food every day, any time of day, it's likely to be overeaten more, or -- for some people -- eaten to the exclusion of the huge variety of other foods that one ought to be eating as part of their diet.2 -
French_Peasant wrote: »
*Pasturized Process Cheese Products DO have their uses, however, including gettin' in my belly on a legit Philly Cheesesteak: https://www.bonappetit.com/story/what-is-processed-cheese
Old Philly native here. Cheeze Whiz on cheesesteaks is a relatively recent "thing" and even though I don't even eat them any more, it can get off my lawn. Legit cheesesteaks should have provolone cheese on them.
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GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »French_Peasant wrote: »
*Pasturized Process Cheese Products DO have their uses, however, including gettin' in my belly on a legit Philly Cheesesteak: https://www.bonappetit.com/story/what-is-processed-cheese
Old Philly native here. Cheeze Whiz on cheesesteaks is a relatively recent "thing" and even though I don't even eat them any more, it can get off my lawn. Legit cheesesteaks should have provolone cheese on them.
Provolone, interesting. Note to self: must try 2 -
The term ultraprocessed always sounds funny, though I don't know that I could come up with better.
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