Not being a "normal' BMI
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chris_in_cal
Posts: 2,337 Member
First "BMI" is redmeat for flamewars and that's not my point...I just put it in the title.
Here is an observation, I'd like to bounce it off of others.
Young men who are morbidly obese often have a pattern, start losing weight, start exercising, start having some boost in self-esteem, then drop into what is the area of obese, and maybe even down into overweight, and then these young men stop their trajectory and announce that lifting, getting strong, and building muscle is their new priority. Some get lean, but some stop they momentum and end being where they are with their weight and perhaps gain some strength, but the momentum in the initial weight loss grinds to a halt.
I always image there is great value to gaining muscle and strength, but I imagine losing weight till I'm a weak skinny fat guy at the very bottom of the normal weight range.... from that low weight place, lift and gain 3% or 4% body mass from strength and muscle.
It seems loosing as much excess as possible before adding muscle weight is more rewarding, than simultaneously losing 8% excess body weight and gaining 4% muscle mass at the same time.
BTW: I'm old obese and have never lifted much. But I always dream of my scenario, losing all the excess and then gain the muscle mass.
Here is an observation, I'd like to bounce it off of others.
Young men who are morbidly obese often have a pattern, start losing weight, start exercising, start having some boost in self-esteem, then drop into what is the area of obese, and maybe even down into overweight, and then these young men stop their trajectory and announce that lifting, getting strong, and building muscle is their new priority. Some get lean, but some stop they momentum and end being where they are with their weight and perhaps gain some strength, but the momentum in the initial weight loss grinds to a halt.
I always image there is great value to gaining muscle and strength, but I imagine losing weight till I'm a weak skinny fat guy at the very bottom of the normal weight range.... from that low weight place, lift and gain 3% or 4% body mass from strength and muscle.
It seems loosing as much excess as possible before adding muscle weight is more rewarding, than simultaneously losing 8% excess body weight and gaining 4% muscle mass at the same time.
BTW: I'm old obese and have never lifted much. But I always dream of my scenario, losing all the excess and then gain the muscle mass.
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Replies
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Not sure what you mean but losing weight as in body fat can only be a good thing of you're overweight? Why would being skinny fat automatically mean being weak?1
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chris_in_cal wrote: »
It seems loosing as much excess as possible before adding muscle weight is more rewarding, than simultaneously losing 8% excess body weight and gaining 4% muscle mass at the same time.
If "losing weight" is your goal then yes, getting stronger and packing on muscle will discourage you. That's what those threads/photos are all about that show someone at the same or similar weight with a massive change in body composition. Weighing 225 lbs with 12% body fat is a totally different person than 225 lbs and 25% body fat.
I've never had a "normal BMI" and damn proud of it. Those stupid charts say I should weigh like 162. If I weight 162 I'd have to go to extremes and literally lose muscle. I've been as low as 12% body fat and was still like 190 lbs.
Make your goal about what you look and feel like. Reduce your total body fat % and lift regularly. No one will ever know what you weigh, they know what you look like. I've shocked people that I even weigh over 200 lbs. They immediately equate that 2xx number to obesity.5 -
chris_in_cal wrote: »First "BMI" is redmeat for flamewars and that's not my point...I just put it in the title.
Here is an observation, I'd like to bounce it off of others.
Young men who are morbidly obese often have a pattern, start losing weight, start exercising, start having some boost in self-esteem, then drop into what is the area of obese, and maybe even down into overweight, and then these young men stop their trajectory and announce that lifting, getting strong, and building muscle is their new priority. Some get lean, but some stop they momentum and end being where they are with their weight and perhaps gain some strength, but the momentum in the initial weight loss grinds to a halt.
I always image there is great value to gaining muscle and strength, but I imagine losing weight till I'm a weak skinny fat guy at the very bottom of the normal weight range.... from that low weight place, lift and gain 3% or 4% body mass from strength and muscle.
It seems loosing as much excess as possible before adding muscle weight is more rewarding, than simultaneously losing 8% excess body weight and gaining 4% muscle mass at the same time.
BTW: I'm old obese and have never lifted much. But I always dream of my scenario, losing all the excess and then gain the muscle mass.
As someone still partway through this journey, down from 330+ to 210ish, I think this is the wrong way to do it.
It's also pretty much what I did down to 250 or so.
But guess what. I lost a lot of muscle while losing weight. So if you want to lose weight, and then once done gain muscle, I'd have to ask why not just keep the muscle you have and just lose fat? I'd rather lose 6% and have it be mostly fat.5 -
It's easier to hang on to muscle than to regain it, particularly for an older person. Plus, you have to eat in a surplus as a non-obese person to gain muscle, and that comes with a certain amount of fat anyway. There's no way to diet down to skinny and then just gain muscle and no fat.8
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While we tend to focus on the number on the scale, people generally want to lose weight and possibly gain muscle for appearance. The people you are talking about who stop losing weight sooner than you expect probably hit a point where they are reasonably satisfied with their size/appearance and subsequently change their goals from getting smaller to developing a new physique and getting stronger.2
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There is great benefits to strength training at any age and this is well documented in literature and well performed studies. One benefit is a better quality of life. That alone is a reason to start training today and not wait until you are some arbitrary number on the scale or body fat percentage.chris_in_cal wrote: »First "BMI" is redmeat for flamewars and that's not my point...I just put it in the title.
Here is an observation, I'd like to bounce it off of others.
Young men who are morbidly obese often have a pattern, start losing weight, start exercising, start having some boost in self-esteem, then drop into what is the area of obese, and maybe even down into overweight, and then these young men stop their trajectory and announce that lifting, getting strong, and building muscle is their new priority. Some get lean, but some stop they momentum and end being where they are with their weight and perhaps gain some strength, but the momentum in the initial weight loss grinds to a halt.
I always image there is great value to gaining muscle and strength, but I imagine losing weight till I'm a weak skinny fat guy at the very bottom of the normal weight range.... from that low weight place, lift and gain 3% or 4% body mass from strength and muscle.
It seems loosing as much excess as possible before adding muscle weight is more rewarding, than simultaneously losing 8% excess body weight and gaining 4% muscle mass at the same time.
BTW: I'm old obese and have never lifted much. But I always dream of my scenario, losing all the excess and then gain the muscle mass.
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rheddmobile wrote: »It's easier to hang on to muscle than to regain it, particularly for an older person. Plus, you have to eat in a surplus as a non-obese person to gain muscle, and that comes with a certain amount of fat anyway. There's no way to diet down to skinny and then just gain muscle and no fat.
Bolded is completely false.
Check out the recomposition thread or read some of Eris Helms literature.4 -
rheddmobile wrote: »It's easier to hang on to muscle than to regain it, particularly for an older person. Plus, you have to eat in a surplus as a non-obese person to gain muscle, and that comes with a certain amount of fat anyway. There's no way to diet down to skinny and then just gain muscle and no fat.
Bolded is completely false.
Check out the recomposition thread or read some of Eris Helms literature.
Or even this thread. Things really aren't just black and white. There is a whole middle ground.
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10611633/gaining-muscle-in-a-deficit/p10 -
I joined the gym at the beginning of January, planning to just replicate the cursory up-and-down lifting of dumbells and kettlebells (range 5-10kg) I did last time I lost weight. However, turns out that the time I go to the gym is also the official time a bunch of elderly people on some kind of official referral program from the local doctors attend. Some are overweight, but in the main, they're not significantly so, and they are on the machines or very light weights, trying to regain/develop muscle in order to have a greater level of mobility. Looking at the women, it strikes me they came of age in the 60s, when skinniness was all the range. What with what the elders of my own family tell me, I suspect that when these women were my age, they were crash dieting to achieve the desired look of the day.rheddmobile wrote: »It's easier to hang on to muscle than to regain it, particularly for an older person. Plus, you have to eat in a surplus as a non-obese person to gain muscle, and that comes with a certain amount of fat anyway. There's no way to diet down to skinny and then just gain muscle and no fat.
They're not that old, they're really not, but they've clearly lost a significant amount of muscle along the way in their lives, and it is limiting them. It terrifies me, so with them as a cautionary example, I've started supplementing my routine with messing about with the barbell instead.
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rheddmobile wrote: »It's easier to hang on to muscle than to regain it, particularly for an older person. Plus, you have to eat in a surplus as a non-obese person to gain muscle, and that comes with a certain amount of fat anyway. There's no way to diet down to skinny and then just gain muscle and no fat.
Bolded is completely false.
Check out the recomposition thread or read some of Eris Helms literature.
It's an oversimplification. Recomp still depends on having stored fat, you're just drawing the "surplus" from your own body. Muscle isn't made from air. Recomp is also slow.4 -
rheddmobile wrote: »rheddmobile wrote: »It's easier to hang on to muscle than to regain it, particularly for an older person. Plus, you have to eat in a surplus as a non-obese person to gain muscle, and that comes with a certain amount of fat anyway. There's no way to diet down to skinny and then just gain muscle and no fat.
Bolded is completely false.
Check out the recomposition thread or read some of Eris Helms literature.
It's an oversimplification. Recomp still depends on having stored fat, you're just drawing the "surplus" from your own body. Muscle isn't made from air. Recomp is also slow.
A massive over-simplification and completely misleading. Perpetuating myths with inaccurate absolute statements isn't at all helpful.
Muscle building is slow, that's the reality whether in a calorie surplus or eating around maintenance levels.
People eating at maintenance levels (or even a personally appropriate calorie deficit) aren't subsisting on air.
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