Sugar & Protein

pcw65

Two separate questions here...

First, sugar. As a result of a long term health problem (CKD) my doctor has advised me to move to a primarily plant based diet which I figured would be very difficult to live with but am shocked to be about to hit 2 months with no meat. As part of my renewed focus on diet I am keeping an eye on kidney related macros, protein, potassium, sodium, purines and so on. I noticed though that I am eating at/above my target for sugar. This surprised me as my typical day consists of oatmeal, banana, salad, veggie dinner and nothing horrible. I then realized that MFP doesn't differentiate between added sugar and natural sugar. I guess my question is....should it? Or, should they even be viewed as different? i.e. x mg of sugar in a Snickers v x mg in some strawberries. Is one 'bad sugar' v the other as 'good sugar' or is all sugar equal? I have read some article which indicate natural sugar in fruit etc is viewed as less of a problem that that added to foods but I really am not clued in enough to know whether they should just be viewed as the same.

Then to protein. I guess my only question here is...why is there such an obsession with protein? Almost no one is protein deficient and yet there is such emphasis on getting as much protein as possible. I joined a gym 3-4 weeks back as part of my 'getting fit' and overheard a guy asking the trainer in there how much protein he needed to take. He though 400g+ a day and wanted confirmation. I was happy to hear the trainer tell him he probably already had sufficient protein in his diet and that 200g was more than enough and above that is unnecessary. Being on a diet where I actually need to restrict protein intake (kidney damage) it is more apparent to me walking around the grocery store that 'high protein' has become associated with 'healthy'. Maybe I am missing something...

Anyhow, just reaching out to see if I can learn a little more.

Paul

Panini911

my registered dietician and the weight loss clinic said sugar is sugar is sugar. they didn't differentiate between "natural" or "added" either.

cmriverside

Honestly, just do what your medical team suggests.

Yes, sugar is sugar.

Protein is good. Too much is unnecessary. Follow your doctors' orders. I always just used the default macros on this site 50C/ 30F/ 20P. It works fine. Being plant-based makes protein a little more of a challenge for you, I would imagine.

pcw65

Panini911 wrote: »

my registered dietician and the weight loss clinic said sugar is sugar is sugar. they didn't differentiate between "natural" or "added" either.

Thanks for the reply. I thought that natural sugars were absorbed differently and impacted blood sugar levels differently to added sugar. I do see though that from purely a weight loss perspective they are considered to be identical. Thanks again.

pcw65

cmriverside wrote: »

Being plant-based makes protein a little more of a challenge for you, I would imagine.

Surprisingly, being on a plant based means protein is much less of a challenge. When eating meat it was more difficult to hit my daily target, I would typically be 100%+ above. On a plant based plan I am normally at 90%-120% of my target without too much focus. Thankfully, it has made it a lot easier.

zeejane03

Like others have said-your body processes sugars all the same. You'll probably want to cut out/limit higher sugar fruits (bananas etc) and focus on ones like berries.

janejellyroll

I don't know anything about your health condition, so I would check with your doctor to see if the sugar that is naturally occuring in foods is a concern for you.

If not, know that there are plenty of plant-based people who are getting more calories from carbohydrates/sugar and doing fine. The important thing is getting enough protein and fat. If you're doing that, I consider carbohydrates to be a matter of personal preference.

I personally don't bother to distinguish added sugar from other sugar, but on meeting my nutritional needs overall. When I'm doing that, it tends to naturally put a cap on the candy and other foods with added sugar that I may be consuming.

As for protein, many of us are fortunate enough to never have to worry about actual protein deficiency. But there are sub-optimal levels of protein that won't be severe enough to cause a deficiency that may still be of concern. As a middle-aged woman, for example, I want to make sure that I'm getting enough protein to retain all my muscle mass because muscle loss is a concern for older people and I don't want it to be a problem for me.

You can avoid protein deficiency and still not be getting enough to look and feel your best.

elliej

Sugar is sugar, but I'm sure your doctor is monitoring your blood glucose and they'll be able to flag if there is an issue you should concern yourself with.

Protein is a very contentious subject but there is no protein deficiency ward at the hospitals, whereas over-consuming protein has several health issues associated. It varies depending on a lot of factors, but there are official scientific studies which recommend as little at 1g protein per kg and some equally official which say 1g protein per lb of weight!

Also congrats on your transition to plant based! The key to keeping it going is to keep your diet interesting and varied as it was before. There are a few groups and plenty of veggies and vegans who'll be happy to offer tips if you want any.

And I know you're not actually vegan, but in just two months you will have saved nearly 66,000 gallons of water and 1,800 sq ft of forest (not to mention 60 animals lives). Just think about all the good you're doing for the planet as well as your health, great work.

zeejane03

elliej wrote: »

Sugar is sugar, but I'm sure your doctor is monitoring your blood glucose and they'll be able to flag if there is an issue you should concern yourself with.

Protein is a very contentious subject but there is no protein deficiency ward at the hospitals, whereas over-consuming protein has several health issues associated. It varies depending on a lot of factors, but there are official scientific studies which recommend as little at 1g protein per kg and some equally official which say 1g protein per lb of weight!

Also congrats on your transition to plant based! The key to keeping it going is to keep your diet interesting and varied as it was before. There are a few groups and plenty of veggies and vegans who'll be happy to offer tips if you want any.

And I know you're not actually vegan, but in just two months you will have saved nearly 66,000 gallons of water and 1,800 sq ft of forest (not to mention 60 animals lives). Just think about all the good you're doing for the planet as well as your health, great work.

I'm mostly plant based but your 'stats' seem way off. How on earth is the op saving 60 animals lives by not eating meat for two months? My family does beef shares and one portion of one cow lasts 4 people, (husband and kids), several months.

MikePTY

Unless you were specifically advised to limit it by your doctor, I wouldn't be terribly worried about the sugars you consume in the fruits you eat.

As far as protein, it is true that the info is a little bit all over the map. I think sometimes the reason why a lot of people focus so heavily on protein is because they've heard the common adage that "carbs are bad and fat is bad". Even though those things aren't true, that leads them to believe that protein is the only "good" macro.

There are benefits during exercise and weight loss to consuming a good level of protein, for muscle growth and to help prevent muscle loss during weight loss. But what exactly the "good" level is doesn't seem to be universally agreed on and there is definitely a level which where after that there are no discernible benefits to muscle growth.

janejellyroll

zeejane03 wrote: »

elliej wrote: »

Sugar is sugar, but I'm sure your doctor is monitoring your blood glucose and they'll be able to flag if there is an issue you should concern yourself with.

Protein is a very contentious subject but there is no protein deficiency ward at the hospitals, whereas over-consuming protein has several health issues associated. It varies depending on a lot of factors, but there are official scientific studies which recommend as little at 1g protein per kg and some equally official which say 1g protein per lb of weight!

Also congrats on your transition to plant based! The key to keeping it going is to keep your diet interesting and varied as it was before. There are a few groups and plenty of veggies and vegans who'll be happy to offer tips if you want any.

And I know you're not actually vegan, but in just two months you will have saved nearly 66,000 gallons of water and 1,800 sq ft of forest (not to mention 60 animals lives). Just think about all the good you're doing for the planet as well as your health, great work.

I'm mostly plant based but your 'stats' seem way off. How on earth is the op saving 60 animals lives by not eating meat for two months? My family does beef shares and one portion of one cow lasts 4 people, (husband and kids), several months.

That's probably including chickens. Their meat feeds fewer people per animal and people (in the US anyway) eat more chicken than they do beef.

zeejane03

janejellyroll wrote: »

zeejane03 wrote: »

elliej wrote: »

Sugar is sugar, but I'm sure your doctor is monitoring your blood glucose and they'll be able to flag if there is an issue you should concern yourself with.

Protein is a very contentious subject but there is no protein deficiency ward at the hospitals, whereas over-consuming protein has several health issues associated. It varies depending on a lot of factors, but there are official scientific studies which recommend as little at 1g protein per kg and some equally official which say 1g protein per lb of weight!

Also congrats on your transition to plant based! The key to keeping it going is to keep your diet interesting and varied as it was before. There are a few groups and plenty of veggies and vegans who'll be happy to offer tips if you want any.

And I know you're not actually vegan, but in just two months you will have saved nearly 66,000 gallons of water and 1,800 sq ft of forest (not to mention 60 animals lives). Just think about all the good you're doing for the planet as well as your health, great work.

I'm mostly plant based but your 'stats' seem way off. How on earth is the op saving 60 animals lives by not eating meat for two months? My family does beef shares and one portion of one cow lasts 4 people, (husband and kids), several months.

That's probably including chickens. Their meat feeds fewer people per animal and people (in the US anyway) eat more chicken than they do beef.

My family eats chicken once a week so the pp's number seems high, even factoring in birds. But pp got this thread off track and I made it even more off track, sorry op!

janejellyroll

zeejane03 wrote: »

janejellyroll wrote: »

zeejane03 wrote: »

elliej wrote: »

Sugar is sugar, but I'm sure your doctor is monitoring your blood glucose and they'll be able to flag if there is an issue you should concern yourself with.

Protein is a very contentious subject but there is no protein deficiency ward at the hospitals, whereas over-consuming protein has several health issues associated. It varies depending on a lot of factors, but there are official scientific studies which recommend as little at 1g protein per kg and some equally official which say 1g protein per lb of weight!

Also congrats on your transition to plant based! The key to keeping it going is to keep your diet interesting and varied as it was before. There are a few groups and plenty of veggies and vegans who'll be happy to offer tips if you want any.

And I know you're not actually vegan, but in just two months you will have saved nearly 66,000 gallons of water and 1,800 sq ft of forest (not to mention 60 animals lives). Just think about all the good you're doing for the planet as well as your health, great work.

I'm mostly plant based but your 'stats' seem way off. How on earth is the op saving 60 animals lives by not eating meat for two months? My family does beef shares and one portion of one cow lasts 4 people, (husband and kids), several months.

That's probably including chickens. Their meat feeds fewer people per animal and people (in the US anyway) eat more chicken than they do beef.

My family eats chicken once a week so the pp's number seems high, even factoring in birds. But pp got this thread off track and I made it even more off track, sorry op!

It may be high, but it would probably be better to go off of official numbers rather than personal family eating patterns (which may be very different than average).

Each year, about 9.7 billion animals (not including fish) are killed for food in the US. Given the number of Americans, that's about 30 animals for each of us per year, so 60 animals "saved" for two months does seem a bit high.

lemurcat2

Sugar is sugar (mostly, more on that coming up), and MFP can't track added sugar since it's not yet required on labels. I don't worry about sugar inherent in foods, like fruit, veg, dairy. MFP basically has a limit of 15% assuming that's for both, but if your diet is higher in intrinsic sugar than average (people who eat lots of fruits and veg may find their diet is), then no reason to think that's bad.

The reason for the limits on ADDED sugar is that many foods with significant added sugar are also high in calories (often from fat as much as sugar) and lower in nutrients, so eating lots of them can result in weight gain or crowding out more nutritious items, fiber, etc. That's not the case in your situation. Most foods with intrinsic sugar also come with more micronutrients and fiber.

There are some differences between sugars -- glucose is what causes blood glucose to rise (which is not a problem in a healthy person), and fructose is processed by the liver but has little effect on blood glucose. Neither is inherently "better", and more to the point intrinsic sugars in fruits include both in different amounts depending on the food (dairy also has lactose) and added sugar (table sugar) is sucrose, which is 50% glucose, 50% fructose (HFCS is 60% fructose/40% glucose).

If your doctor has you on a limited sugar diet, I'd clarify whether it's ALL sugars, and if so you might need to switch out some higher sugar fruit for veg. (Or check the source of your sugar to make sure you aren't eating foods with more added sugar than you realized.)

On protein, as others have said, the recommendations for more than the RDA at MFP is because it can be protective against muscle loss when on a deficit or working out a lot, and also tends to be very satiating for many people. As you overheard, many bodybuilders have inflated ideas of what is necessary.

AnnPT77

elliej wrote: »

Sugar is sugar, but I'm sure your doctor is monitoring your blood glucose and they'll be able to flag if there is an issue you should concern yourself with.

Protein is a very contentious subject but there is no protein deficiency ward at the hospitals, whereas over-consuming protein has several health issues associated. It varies depending on a lot of factors, but there are official scientific studies which recommend as little at 1g protein per kg and some equally official which say 1g protein per lb of weight!

Also congrats on your transition to plant based! The key to keeping it going is to keep your diet interesting and varied as it was before. There are a few groups and plenty of veggies and vegans who'll be happy to offer tips if you want any.

And I know you're not actually vegan, but in just two months you will have saved nearly 66,000 gallons of water and 1,800 sq ft of forest (not to mention 60 animals lives). Just think about all the good you're doing for the planet as well as your health, great work.

We may not have "protein deficiency wards", but we have plenty of nursing homes full of people, many of whom have sarcopenia. As an aging person myself (63), I can't let that one slide by.

Sarcopenia (muscle wasting is an informal term) is a sadly common condition among aging people, resulting in loss of independent living, injuries, and potentially earlier mortality. There's nothing called "the protein deficiency ward", but adequate protein is one of the foundations for avoiding or reducing sarcopenia (alongside resistance exercise, but research suggests it's an independent factor). Best recent research suggests that protein intake moderately above the standard reference intake levels may be beneficial in certain cases (including when aging), and is not likely to cause kidney function impairment among those with healthy kidney function, or cause other problems for those otherwise healthy.

I'm not advocating bro-vice levels of protein here; but note that some vegan advocacy sites err dangerously on the low side. Be careful.

OP, obviously you should follow your doctor's advice regarding protein.

Some people here, perhaps especially those accustomed to eating a diet high in carbs/sugar and fats, can find it a challenge to hit MFP's default protein goal, which is pretty moderate for most people. (We see threads about this fairly often.) There is research evidence that a bit of protein beyond the standard reference intake is a good idea for people who are losing weight or highly active. Further, for those of us fortunate not to be managing a health condition that requires us to limit protein (as you must do), there's no evidence of harm from a moderately higher protein intake than the reference intakes.

That combination of factors can lead to the "protein obsession" you're describing. Or it can be caused by silly nutritional advice about needing truly excessive amounts of protein. (Note that "excessive" is relative to a specific case, not a generality.) "Obsession" may be in the eyes of a beholder.

For others who do not have protein-limiting medical conditions, this is a readable summary of research about protein needs, on a site generally respected for its good sense about scientific standards.

https://examine.com/nutrition/how-much-protein-do-you-need/

OP, I agree with most of the above advice about sugar, especially about checking with your doctor concerning whether you should limit intrinsic sugars, if you have any indication that that might be an issue. For someone without a particular medical reason to limit sugar, it comes down to added sugar having a potential to either drive necessary nutrition out of a calorie-appropriate diet, or put a nutrition-appropriate diet above a sensible calorie level. Close reading of mainstream recommendations (WHO, USDA, etc.) will support that interpretation.

Eating a sugary thing on its own (not mixed macros) may have a different effect on blood sugar, satiation, etc., than eating it in context of a meal. It makes no difference from a calorie standpoint.