I’ve been lifting for a few weeks
patrickrea2002
Posts: 83 Member
I know it take a long time to grow muscle but i haven’t gained a pound should I increase my calories or continue doing what I’m doing? And wait
How do I know my bulk is working?
How do I know my bulk is working?
1
Replies
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How long is a few weeks? You need to be in a calorie surplus to gain weight.1
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Been lifting since the start of January, if I don’t see weight gain shall I increase my calories0
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time. more than a few weeks. measurements. also be aware of gaining fat as well as muscle if you go on an aggressive bulk - then you will need to lose all the excess fat to show the muscle underneath.
on a positive note - you may not have gained weight but maybe you lost fat and gained muscle so scale is still the same? positive thinking! do you look any different?1 -
As others have alluded to, measurements (biceps, chest, shoulders, waist, thighs, hips, etc.) & even clothing fit feel may portray a more accurate picture vs. weight alone. Re-measure about every 2 weeks or so and reevaluate (moving target) whether you need to make a change in kcals total0
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Ok yeah I was thinking my chest feels bigger and so do my arms so the scales might be wrong2
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Mesurment wise
I’m 141
And 5,90 -
But I’ve been 141 for ages1
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patrickrea2002 wrote: »Mesurment wise
I’m 141
And 5,9
Patrick, If you’ve only been lifting for a couple weeks, you need to make sure your form is good enough to start progressively overloading compound movements. This is how you get stronger, which leads to increase in muscle size. And you need to eat, you’ll get bigger and won’t put on too much fat since you haven’t been training long. It’s the good old newbie gains, people in their first year of lifting experience crazy gains with minimal fat gain. Just make sure your form is good, you use progressive overload on compound movements, get to the gym as much as possible, rest when you need, and just eat, a lot.4 -
patrickrea2002 wrote: »Been lifting since the start of January, if I don’t see weight gain shall I increase my calories
Yes. If you haven't seen upwards movement on the scale on average after a few weeks, it's reasonable to add a few hundred calories and recheck in a few more weeks.0 -
NaturalGainsRecned wrote: »patrickrea2002 wrote: »Mesurment wise
I’m 141
And 5,9
Patrick, If you’ve only been lifting for a couple weeks, you need to make sure your form is good enough to start progressively overloading compound movements. This is how you get stronger, which leads to increase in muscle size. And you need to eat, you’ll get bigger and won’t put on too much fat since you haven’t been training long. It’s the good old newbie gains, people in their first year of lifting experience crazy gains with minimal fat gain. Just make sure your form is good, you use progressive overload on compound movements, get to the gym as much as possible, rest when you need, and just eat, a lot.
Form is way overstated in importance and way overused in the fitness industry.
There simply isn't a concrete "good form" or "bad form". It's hardly even close to definable.
Load management is way more importance than what someone considers good/bad form.
Strength and hypertrophy is driven by good programming with adequate volume at a useful intensity, not form.
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NaturalGainsRecned wrote: »patrickrea2002 wrote: »Mesurment wise
I’m 141
And 5,9
Patrick, If you’ve only been lifting for a couple weeks, you need to make sure your form is good enough to start progressively overloading compound movements. This is how you get stronger, which leads to increase in muscle size. And you need to eat, you’ll get bigger and won’t put on too much fat since you haven’t been training long. It’s the good old newbie gains, people in their first year of lifting experience crazy gains with minimal fat gain. Just make sure your form is good, you use progressive overload on compound movements, get to the gym as much as possible, rest when you need, and just eat, a lot.
Form is way overstated in importance and way overused in the fitness industry.
There simply isn't a concrete "good form" or "bad form". It's hardly even close to definable.
Load management is way more importance than what someone considers good/bad form.
Strength and hypertrophy is driven by good programming with adequate volume at a useful intensity, not form.
But......some attention needs to be paid to form. Improper form, can lead to injuries. Form does not need to be perfect, but it does need to be good enough so that when lifting, you can feel the proper muscles doing the work. At least, thats how it is for me. But, to each their own, find what works for you.
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Just my two cents but I really don't agree with the fact that form is overstated. I've seen guys throwing 40lb dumbbells for curls. That's cool and all they have a good heavy weight going but when they aren't putting the focus on the bicep they're asking for an injury and possibly not maximizing the muscle tear/repair. I can get just as good of a pump doing more reps on 20lb dumbbells as I can smaller reps with 40lb but the form has to remain the same.2
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Form isn't only important as a means to prevent injury, but if you're training for hypertrophy you need to be able to isolate/target certain muscle groups, not just get the weight from point A to B by recruiting every muscle possible to help. Proper form can help with that.
BUT, I do see how "proper" form can be overstated. Take those with limited joint mobility or long legs/femurs, such as myself. My stance for deads and squats is wider than most and my feet are more angled. That's just how my anatomy works. If I followed what I was taught as "proper" form (as I did the first few months of lifting) I'm forcing my body to bend in ways that aren't optimal, especially when loaded with weight, resulting in knee and hip pain.
So basically, yes, focus on form but also recognize that there isnt a one size fits all. Just about everyones form is a slight variation of what's taught as proper form.9 -
NaturalGainsRecned wrote: »patrickrea2002 wrote: »Mesurment wise
I’m 141
And 5,9
Patrick, If you’ve only been lifting for a couple weeks, you need to make sure your form is good enough to start progressively overloading compound movements. This is how you get stronger, which leads to increase in muscle size. And you need to eat, you’ll get bigger and won’t put on too much fat since you haven’t been training long. It’s the good old newbie gains, people in their first year of lifting experience crazy gains with minimal fat gain. Just make sure your form is good, you use progressive overload on compound movements, get to the gym as much as possible, rest when you need, and just eat, a lot.
Form is way overstated in importance and way overused in the fitness industry.
There simply isn't a concrete "good form" or "bad form". It's hardly even close to definable.
Load management is way more importance than what someone considers good/bad form.
Strength and hypertrophy is driven by good programming with adequate volume at a useful intensity, not form.
It’s more along the lines of good enough, so he doesn’t hurt himself. 🙄3 -
Teabythesea_ wrote: »Form isn't only important as a means to prevent injury, but if you're training for hypertrophy you need to be able to isolate/target certain muscle groups, not just get the weight from point A to B by recruiting every muscle possible to help. Proper form can help with that.
BUT, I do see how "proper" form can be overstated. Take those with limited joint mobility or long legs/femurs, such as myself. My stance for deads and squats is wider than most and my feet are more angled. That's just how my anatomy works. If I followed what I was taught as "proper" form (as I did the first few months of lifting) I'm forcing my body to bend in ways that aren't optimal, especially when loaded with weight, resulting in knee and hip pain.
So basically, yes, focus on form but also recognize that there isnt a one size fits all. Just about everyones form is a slight variation of what's taught as proper form.
Great points, what works for you; may not feel best for me, vice versa.2 -
Define good and/or bad form.CharlieCharlie007 wrote: »NaturalGainsRecned wrote: »patrickrea2002 wrote: »Mesurment wise
I’m 141
And 5,9
Patrick, If you’ve only been lifting for a couple weeks, you need to make sure your form is good enough to start progressively overloading compound movements. This is how you get stronger, which leads to increase in muscle size. And you need to eat, you’ll get bigger and won’t put on too much fat since you haven’t been training long. It’s the good old newbie gains, people in their first year of lifting experience crazy gains with minimal fat gain. Just make sure your form is good, you use progressive overload on compound movements, get to the gym as much as possible, rest when you need, and just eat, a lot.
Form is way overstated in importance and way overused in the fitness industry.
There simply isn't a concrete "good form" or "bad form". It's hardly even close to definable.
Load management is way more importance than what someone considers good/bad form.
Strength and hypertrophy is driven by good programming with adequate volume at a useful intensity, not form.
But......some attention needs to be paid to form. Improper form, can lead to injuries. Form does not need to be perfect, but it does need to be good enough so that when lifting, you can feel the proper muscles doing the work. At least, thats how it is for me. But, to each their own, find what works for you.
Form doesn't lead to injuries. That is a common myth that is spewed throughout the fitness world. There are adjustments that might help someone lift heavier, but not prevent injuries outside of trama
Bad load management leads to injuries. Put too much load on your body too frequently without proper recovery from what the person had adapted to and injuries can happen. This is true in any training not just weight training This is why using a well written training program is important.
I have probably been to near 500 gyms in my lifetime, and have seen thousands of differently experienced lifters squat with different form because of different limb lengths, health, speciality traing, etc... The body adapts very well if you practice good load management within a program that regulates the load.
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Just my two cents but I really don't agree with the fact that form is overstated. I've seen guys throwing 40lb dumbbells for curls. That's cool and all they have a good heavy weight going but when they aren't putting the focus on the bicep they're asking for an injury and possibly not maximizing the muscle tear/repair. I can get just as good of a pump doing more reps on 20lb dumbbells as I can smaller reps with 40lb but the form has to remain the same.
I hear what you are saying, but I think your description might be a touch vague of what is actual happening with your example of 40lb dumbbells.
I know people that can curl a few hundred pounds and it is within proper load management and have never claimed a bicep injury and I know people who curl only 45lbs and have used improper load management and claimed they injured themselves.
Use the proper load and the lift and muscles becomes more specific to what is needed to force adaptation. Try to go above the load what your body is adapted to without managing recovery and chances are injuries will happen soon enough.
It's not the movement, but the load of the movement.1 -
Just my two cents but I really don't agree with the fact that form is overstated. I've seen guys throwing 40lb dumbbells for curls. That's cool and all they have a good heavy weight going but when they aren't putting the focus on the bicep they're asking for an injury and possibly not maximizing the muscle tear/repair. I can get just as good of a pump doing more reps on 20lb dumbbells as I can smaller reps with 40lb but the form has to remain the same.
I hear what you are saying, but I think your description might be a touch vague of what is actual happening with your example of 40lb dumbbells.
I know people that can curl a few hundred pounds and it is within proper load management and have never claimed a bicep injury and I know people who curl only 45lbs and have used improper load management and claimed they injured themselves.
Use the proper load and the lift and muscles becomes more specific to what is needed to force adaptation. Try to go above the load what your body is adapted to without managing recovery and chances are injuries will happen soon enough.
It's not the movement, but the load of the movement.
I had a client who’s son was on the high school football team. They were doing deadlifts, big kid; he played offensive tackle. Tore his bicep pulling 225. PS I’ve seen him pull 315 for reps. I didn’t see the injury happen, but I think we all know where his form was off. Form plays a big part of a lift, even if the weight isn’t the heaviest. First thing I learned stepping into the gym.4 -
NaturalGainsRecned wrote: »Just my two cents but I really don't agree with the fact that form is overstated. I've seen guys throwing 40lb dumbbells for curls. That's cool and all they have a good heavy weight going but when they aren't putting the focus on the bicep they're asking for an injury and possibly not maximizing the muscle tear/repair. I can get just as good of a pump doing more reps on 20lb dumbbells as I can smaller reps with 40lb but the form has to remain the same.
I hear what you are saying, but I think your description might be a touch vague of what is actual happening with your example of 40lb dumbbells.
I know people that can curl a few hundred pounds and it is within proper load management and have never claimed a bicep injury and I know people who curl only 45lbs and have used improper load management and claimed they injured themselves.
Use the proper load and the lift and muscles becomes more specific to what is needed to force adaptation. Try to go above the load what your body is adapted to without managing recovery and chances are injuries will happen soon enough.
It's not the movement, but the load of the movement.
I had a client who’s son was on the high school football team. They were doing deadlifts, big kid; he played offensive tackle. Tore his bicep pulling 225. PS I’ve seen him pull 315 for reps. I didn’t see the injury happen, but I think we all know where his form was off. Form plays a big part of a lift, even if the weight isn’t the heaviest. First thing I learned stepping into the gym.
What was his load management specifically lifting and football related?
Bicep tears during deadlifts are extremely rare. Without knowing his programming and recovery or even possibly trama during actual football game/practice that could of contributed to the tear I wouldn't begin.to atribute form specifically on a lift unless he had a MRI prior to lifting that proved no tear prior.
Where did you speculate his form was off during the lift that caused a tear on a suboptimal lift that was solely responsible for the tear?6 -
I’ve been looking closely at my form as I think it’s important but how long should it take for me to start seeing results so i know I’m doing nothing wrong0
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patrickrea2002 wrote: »I’ve been looking closely at my form as I think it’s important but how long should it take for me to start seeing results so i know I’m doing nothing wrong
Here's my question... it's been almost two months since you've started, so are you lifting heavier weights now than you were when you started? This is the progressive overload talked about.. if you started with a 100lb squat and maxxed out at 5 reps doing that.. are you now able to do, say, 120, 140lbs? Did your dumbbell curls go from 15lbs up to 35lbs?
Just throwing arbitrary numbers/weights out there, everyone starts somewhere different, but the idea is that if you are building muscle and strength, particularly as a new lifter, you SHOULD be seeing an increase in your ability to lift more weight. If you haven't been gradually increasing the weights you lift each week or so, then why not?
You don't build more muscle by lifting the same weight for 12 weeks, just because it gets easier. You need to push your muscles to do more work, under load, and increase that weight.2 -
patrickrea2002 wrote: »I’ve been looking closely at my form as I think it’s important but how long should it take for me to start seeing results so i know I’m doing nothing wrong
If your lifts are progressing in either reps or weight then it's reasonable to say that your skill of your lifts is increasing as well as some strength gains.
Reviewing your workout logs hopefully with a RPE rating system or the like should help confirm this.
The problem with trying correct form issues is that there might not be an issue at all. A coach with a experienced eye might be able to make your lifts more efficient. Keep in mind if your load management is intact from a well written program then things tend to work themselves out.
Just like anything in life, the more we do something the more efficient we will get at it. The body's very adaptable that way.
Most untrained people I coach get very little adjustments on a lift once they taught how to set up and brace. Since they are novel, lifts might feel awkward to them initially. The idea is put the useful weight on the barbell with a correct rep scheme relative to the intensity and let them practice the lift. Paying close attention to load management for programming and weight adjustments is my main concern.
All my lifters lift for their body proportions, health issues, etc...by simply getting the reps in at the sweet spot of intensity. It takes very little time for them to look as if they have done it for years.
Once again if you progressing and not overshooting your RPE for a lift, its reasonable to say you are doing great.
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Cahgetsfit wrote: »time. more than a few weeks. measurements. also be aware of gaining fat as well as muscle if you go on an aggressive bulk - then you will need to lose all the excess fat to show the muscle underneath.
on a positive note - you may not have gained weight but maybe you lost fat and gained muscle so scale is still the same? positive thinking! do you look any different?
A few weeks is 3-5 weeks. If someone isn't gaining ANY weight for that long, and their goal is to gain weight, they should definitely up their calories.1 -
NaturalGainsRecned wrote: »patrickrea2002 wrote: »Mesurment wise
I’m 141
And 5,9
Patrick, If you’ve only been lifting for a couple weeks, you need to make sure your form is good enough to start progressively overloading compound movements. This is how you get stronger, which leads to increase in muscle size. And you need to eat, you’ll get bigger and won’t put on too much fat since you haven’t been training long. It’s the good old newbie gains, people in their first year of lifting experience crazy gains with minimal fat gain. Just make sure your form is good, you use progressive overload on compound movements, get to the gym as much as possible, rest when you need, and just eat, a lot.
Form is way overstated in importance and way overused in the fitness industry.
There simply isn't a concrete "good form" or "bad form". It's hardly even close to definable.
Load management is way more importance than what someone considers good/bad form.
Strength and hypertrophy is driven by good programming with adequate volume at a useful intensity, not form.
Wow, certainly is quite a bit of "brology" on this thread. lol... JK kids, settle down..
With respect, "Load Management" is a fancy term for "Form" yup... It is. I appreciate where you're coming from on this, I really do. However, there is no negating the fact that proper "form / Load Management" will limit the possiblity of injuries, and help you achieve more out of any lift regardless of your goal being increase in strength, or size. I can personally attest to this: Not only do I lift, and complete, so do a pluthera of others at my gym and close personal friends, from IBBF, and CBBF.
The science behind Biomechanics and Kinesiology is well documented and speaks to this issue extensivley. As the saying goes; "work smart, not hard". Although, as you well know, it's always hard.
Pertaining to the OP:
It would be great if you could provide a little more detail about yourself? Age, height, wieight, lifting experience if any. Goal weight? Can you post up an average days food as well. Also, it's very important to to be honest about what your actual goal is. Do you want to be the stongest guy in the gym, or the biggest? Because contrary to popular belief, they're not the same thing by a long shot.
Just like losing weight, gaining qaulity weight is not as easy as you might think. Too many people think you can just start lifting weights, eat a little extra, and bam!! In a couple of months you'll put on 10 lbs of muscle. Well, hate to break it to ya bro, but it isn't nearly that easy. Trust me, it's like a full time thing. I'm currently "cutting" and my stats are: 6'0 ft, 210 @ %10 bf
That being said; I'm happy to help in any way I can, as I'm sure @Chieflrg @naturalgainand others are as well. Get us your details, and we can all take a look at it and make some suggestions.
Let me start my saying if you're not eating at least 4500 calories a day. Start! Maybe a good weight gainer can help. Usually, they make yo a bit bloaty so you might want to split the shake into two. Also, not sure if someone else mentioned this, but you'll want to shoot for taking in a least 150 + grams of Protien a day. Eating it is always better, but it's usually easier and cheaper to drink it. ie. Protient shake.13 -
Good grief do not start eating 4500 calories. You cannot force feed muscle growth and we have no idea what he’s at now to make such a suggestion. Calories should be slowly increased over time at stalls which sounds like now. Maybe 200 more calorie and see what happens over a couple weeks and adjust as needed. Aim to gain 2-4 pounds a month as a male newbie.
OP how many calories per day, how much protein per day and are you even tracking?9 -
If you think adding 200 extra calories a day is going to get you quality gains, You simply don't know what you're taking about. This isn't a big guy who's lost a ton of weight and trying to muscle up.
Aim to gain 2-4 pounds a month, that is not as easy as one might think, Maybe if you sit around all day doing nothing, and you used to be a bigger person. But, many ppl have just as hard a time gaining, as some do losing. My understanding was that he was trying to gain, vs, build muscle after a big weight loss. Perhaps I misunderstood.
My maintenance Calories are at about 3500+
I see guys in the gym year after year trying it the way you're talking about, and they end up disappointed. I appreciate you're wanting him to take the slow and steady road, I get that, but if it was that easy to put muscle on, there would be a ton of ppl doing it, and to be be honest, all the gyms I'm been to in my life are mostly full of skinny, or chubby ppl. Very few actual in shape dudes..
My point is simply this, it's hard, hard work. He'll have to bust his *kitten* in the gym on the regular, and dial in the food big time.7 -
patrickrea2002 wrote: »I’ve been looking closely at my form as I think it’s important but how long should it take for me to start seeing results so i know I’m doing nothing wrong
Diet is 70% of the fight lad, if you’re diet is off from your goals... You may not be happy with the results. To grow you need to eat more, lift heavier, and push yourself. Not to the point where you hurt yourself. But something that challenges you in a 4-6 rep range. For example.. Barbell bench press, 4 sets. 135 x 6 reps 140 x 6 reps 145 x 5 reps 150 4 reps. That would be a great opener to your workout. Then maybe you go and do 3 sets of incline dumbbells, reps go up a bit; 6-8. After that, go and do some body weight or weighted dips; again reps go up to 8-10. And finish off with some cable crossovers, 10-12 reps. This is a great chest day workout. But if you end the day in a deficit, I hate to say it’s a waste because it’s not, but it isn’t ideal for your goals and will take you longer to achieve what you want. Diet and proper supplementation are 80% and the hard part, going to the gym and lifting is the fun part. I wish you the best! 💪🏻5 -
patrickrea2002 wrote: »I’ve been looking closely at my form as I think it’s important but how long should it take for me to start seeing results so i know I’m doing nothing wrong
If your lifts are progressing in either reps or weight then it's reasonable to say that your skill of your lifts is increasing as well as some strength gains.
Reviewing your workout logs hopefully with a RPE rating system or the like should help confirm this.
The problem with trying correct form issues is that there might not be an issue at all. A coach with a experienced eye might be able to make your lifts more efficient. Keep in mind if your load management is intact from a well written program then things tend to work themselves out.
Just like anything in life, the more we do something the more efficient we will get at it. The body's very adaptable that way.
Most untrained people I coach get very little adjustments on a lift once they taught how to set up and brace. Since they are novel, lifts might feel awkward to them initially. The idea is put the useful weight on the barbell with a correct rep scheme relative to the intensity and let them practice the lift. Paying close attention to load management for programming and weight adjustments is my main concern.
All my lifters lift for their body proportions, health issues, etc...by simply getting the reps in at the sweet spot of intensity. It takes very little time for them to look as if they have done it for years.
Once again if you progressing and not overshooting your RPE for a lift, its reasonable to say you are doing great.
My thought regarding load management and form is it's sort of a chicken and egg thing. If someone has practiced the lift (possibly under the instruction of a knowledgeable individual) and uses appropriate load they most likely will be fine with their form. If someone is ignoring load management (i.e., trying move a load outside their capabilities) and still trying to perform the movement the chances of poor form (based on the individuals body mechanics) and injury increase.1 -
11Templars wrote: »If you think adding 200 extra calories a day is going to get you quality gains, You simply don't know what you're taking about. This isn't a big guy who's lost a ton of weight and trying to muscle up.
Aim to gain 2-4 pounds a month, that is not as easy as one might think, Maybe if you sit around all day doing nothing, and you used to be a bigger person. But, many ppl have just as hard a time gaining, as some do losing. My understanding was that he was trying to gain, vs, build muscle after a big weight loss. Perhaps I misunderstood.
My maintenance Calories are at about 3500+
I see guys in the gym year after year trying it the way you're talking about, and they end up disappointed. I appreciate you're wanting him to take the slow and steady road, I get that, but if it was that easy to put muscle on, there would be a ton of ppl doing it, and to be be honest, all the gyms I'm been to in my life are mostly full of skinny, or chubby ppl. Very few actual in shape dudes..
My point is simply this, it's hard, hard work. He'll have to bust his *kitten* in the gym on the regular, and dial in the food big time.
Your maintenance calories are irrelevant.
yes he’s probably a hard gainer but we don’t know what he’s eating now. Maybe it’s 1500
Thanks for pointing out that I simply don’t know what I’m talking about based on your opinion and without zero knowledge of my background or experience nor without siting studies that show eating your face off wouldn’t result in just getting fat
I have lean bulked twice using my method with significant progress each time. I would start around 2800 eventually into the upper 3000s over time. Fat gain wasn’t to bad3 -
Spectacular advice telling someone who weighs around 140lbs and is concerned with keeping their fat gains low to eat at least 4500cals. :noway:7
This discussion has been closed.
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