My experience: CICO vs. P90x vs. Whole30 vs. Keto vs. OMAD
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RelCanonical wrote: »pierinifitness wrote: »Thanks for sharing. I'm an IF practitioner currently on a short-term OMAD assignment and am a firm believer it helps keep unbridled discipline in peak condition which is necessary for success. I have no Keto experience and know myself well enough that I couldn't do it. Anecdotal experiences are great to share with an open-minded audience and I am part of that small audience here. Thanks again and best wishes for your continued success.
People aren't open minded if they don't like anecdotal evidence stated as absolutes?
Yeah, this pushback has nothing to do with OP's success and everything to do with how he communicated it. I had a boss that talks like him (treating opinion or anecdotal experience as fact) but I couldn't call out my boss so I did it to this guy instead. It's a symptom of black-and-white thinking that some people have.
Yeah I can see how my email came off that way, though I thought I was prefacing enough that it was my personal experience and how diets can affect satiety etc. (the subject line says "My experience")
The post wasn't really meant for folks who are 100 percent happy with what they're already doing.
Also, again, I wasn't able to exercise much at all for months -- so needed something I could do sedentary that didn't make me miserable. Keto helped a lot!
Anyway -- if someone on the forum is struggling like I was with the other diets -- and this gives em' a push to try something different, that's a good thing, right? I had too many people tell me that "all I needed to worry about was CICO" and that turned out to be incorrect for me. What I put into my body made a huge difference across all indicators of health and fitness.
If it helps someone struggling to find a new way that works for them then, yes, that's great. You certainly are not alone in finding low-carb/keto satiating and helpful.
It's equally important to keep facts and anecdotes clearly identifiable.
And, because it's already confusing for many, I think your post should be clearer about CICO which is an energy equation, the basis of which all weight loss is reliant upon; keto included. It's also unfair/unclear to imply that following CICO, by which I assume you mean counting calories (though they're not the same) means not watching what you put into your body. It's quite simple to have a wholly nutritious/satiating diet while simply counting calories. They're not mutually exclusive.
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Calories In-Calories Out are all you need to worry about for weight loss.
For health, energy, satiety, certain fitness goals, happiness with your way of eating, and other stuff I'm probably omitting? That's where macros come into play. From the way you've described it, it sounds like you've discovered that high-fat, low-carb is your sweet spot. For me, it's protein and fiber. But neither way of eating negates the idea that for weight loss it's still Calories In-Calories Out.17 -
You can do CICO and eat any kind of diet you want. You didn't have to eat junk food and count your calories.10
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RelCanonical wrote: »pierinifitness wrote: »Thanks for sharing. I'm an IF practitioner currently on a short-term OMAD assignment and am a firm believer it helps keep unbridled discipline in peak condition which is necessary for success. I have no Keto experience and know myself well enough that I couldn't do it. Anecdotal experiences are great to share with an open-minded audience and I am part of that small audience here. Thanks again and best wishes for your continued success.
People aren't open minded if they don't like anecdotal evidence stated as absolutes?
Yeah, this pushback has nothing to do with OP's success and everything to do with how he communicated it. I had a boss that talks like him (treating opinion or anecdotal experience as fact) but I couldn't call out my boss so I did it to this guy instead. It's a symptom of black-and-white thinking that some people have.
Yeah I can see how my email came off that way, though I thought I was prefacing enough that it was my personal experience and how diets can affect satiety etc. (the subject line says "My experience")
The post wasn't really meant for folks who are 100 percent happy with what they're already doing.
Also, again, I wasn't able to exercise much at all for months -- so needed something I could do sedentary that didn't make me miserable. Keto helped a lot!
Anyway -- if someone on the forum is struggling like I was with the other diets -- and this gives em' a push to try something different, that's a good thing, right? I had too many people tell me that "all I needed to worry about was CICO" and that turned out to be incorrect for me. What I put into my body made a huge difference across all indicators of health and fitness.
You did awesome with trying new things and finding what worked for you without getting too discouraged, so it's excellent! You are not alone in that the way you write doesn't really match up with how you feel. I run across it occasionally throughout the internet, usually in the context of "why are these people mad at me?" I don't think it's entirely people's fault either. At least in the US, there's this culture, especially in the workforce, that promotes this way of talking and writing. While you are probably not a narcissist, it is a narcissistic behavior (presenting opinion as fact) and I believe it's part of the reason why narcissists are way over-represented in CEO positions. They naturally contain the elements that are considered "good" in a leader. It puts a lot of people off, though.
Here's the bolded sentence you made that is probably what's getting at people: "For real weight loss, a mixture of low-carb and intermittent fasting is the best long-term solution."
Here's how to make it your experience: "For me, a mixture of low-carb and intermittent fasting was the best long-term solution."
That's just an example, but it's just something to keep in mind. All we can do is take what you say at face-value, and in this case, it came off wrong.16 -
Happy to say I've hit my target weight and I'm doing great! After realizing I was a solid 60-70+ pounds overweight, I tried a lot of different things the last few years to get back on track, with more yoyo-ing than I would like. But I've finally hit a balance the last year.
Here's what I've discovered. For real weight loss, a mixture of low-carb and intermittent fasting is the best long-term solution.
CICO + American Diet: Nobody is denying there is a basic scientific truth to CICO, but humans are not bomb calorimeters. The phrase "IIFYM" is mostly garbage (or was for me) and builds obsession around food/counting and guilt around food. You may lose weight, but if you're like me -- and you're forced into a sedentary lifestyle for months due to injury -- you'll just be hungry and tired all the time if there's too many carbs and processed foods in the diet.
Why is there always a but in these sentences? Usually the but seems to be followed by something that negates the claim of not denying, or some form of misunderstanding.0 -
RelCanonical wrote: »pierinifitness wrote: »Thanks for sharing. I'm an IF practitioner currently on a short-term OMAD assignment and am a firm believer it helps keep unbridled discipline in peak condition which is necessary for success. I have no Keto experience and know myself well enough that I couldn't do it. Anecdotal experiences are great to share with an open-minded audience and I am part of that small audience here. Thanks again and best wishes for your continued success.
People aren't open minded if they don't like anecdotal evidence stated as absolutes?
Yeah, this pushback has nothing to do with OP's success and everything to do with how he communicated it. I had a boss that talks like him (treating opinion or anecdotal experience as fact) but I couldn't call out my boss so I did it to this guy instead. It's a symptom of black-and-white thinking that some people have.
Yeah I can see how my email came off that way, though I thought I was prefacing enough that it was my personal experience and how diets can affect satiety etc. (the subject line says "My experience")
The post wasn't really meant for folks who are 100 percent happy with what they're already doing.
Also, again, I wasn't able to exercise much at all for months -- so needed something I could do sedentary that didn't make me miserable. Keto helped a lot!
Anyway -- if someone on the forum is struggling like I was with the other diets -- and this gives em' a push to try something different, that's a good thing, right? I had too many people tell me that "all I needed to worry about was CICO" and that turned out to be incorrect for me. What I put into my body made a huge difference across all indicators of health and fitness.
I feel what you're trying to say here, but I'm going to ask you to dig a little deeper to question your wording a bit.
CICO is something you need to think of no matter what foods you eat when you're trying to lose weight. Most of the experienced posters on this board only ever say that "CICO is all you need to worry about" in the context of a question from someone such as "can I still eat xyz and lose weight?". Those experienced posters will usually add that good nutrition is important and that macros will play a role in satiety.
I have a feeling that those sorts of posts often get ignored because they tend to be longer, and they aren't necessarily what people who have less than stellar diets want to hear. So when those people find themselves down the road less than satiated by a less than nutrient dense diet because their calories are restricted, they blame the idea that they were told that "CICO is all you need to worry about" and ignore the fact that they were also told a bunch of other stuff they ignored.
I see this constantly on these boards. It's almost a trope on here how "CICO" (as colloquially used to be the use of calorie counting) is presumed to be a diet of junk food and is put up in juxtaposition to keto. It's a handy straw man to set up a pattern of food choice that's less than stellar and conflate that with the idea of energy balance, but the whole notion doesn't scan when you break it down and examine it.
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50 pounds lost, 18 years of maintenance, and all I do is count calories. I tend higher carb naturally and definitely have a sweet tooth. Actually - correction - within the last year I started skipping breakfast (or to be pedantic, having lunch as the 'break fast' around noon); this does help with having more calories later in the day, but I'm also not tied to a mandatory # of hours to fast.5
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Man, I wouldn't have the patience to test-drive all those tricksy named diets: Hats off to you for tolerating all that structure, and the different rules, and pantry restocks, and such!
At my age (63, but 59-60 when I went to a healthy weight after decades of obesity), I'm pretty clear about what I like to eat: Lotsa nice veggies & fruits, a little whole grains, a variety of dairy foods, the occasional treat food. Got fat, obese, and thin again, eating pretty much the same foods I'd long enjoyed.
To be thin, I just needed to eat them in suitable portion sizes and maybe slightly different proportions.
I didn't have to change my activity level or exercise, even.
Speaking only for myself, I consider the named diets to be restrictive (aging hippie = bad about rules)
), and calorie counting to be liberating. To me, it's just a fun science fair project for grown-ups, with health and well-being as the prize. :drinker: 15 -
I totally appreciate the time you put into this, and I have nothing against whatever way of eating people use as long as they are healthy and happy.
However, I agree with some of the others that you are making generalizations that really only apply to you.
I only have experience with calorie counting (so IIFYM I guess according to what you're talking about) and Keto (Which is also CICO, let's be honest with ourselves).
While I do agree it is very satiating, there is a big difference between satiety and satisfaction. I DID feel full on Keto, but I did NOT feel satisfied. At all. It was like my stomach felt empty, but I didn't want to eat. Not that I felt full and satisfied. If you pay attention to your body, you understand the difference.
Starchy carbs like potatoes and rice are what help me personally feel the most satisfied, along with the lean protein, fruits, veggies, etc. When I went back after Keto to adding just potatoes and rice to my meals, the difference was palpable. Both in the way I felt overall, and the amount of energy I had.
But I also understand that many people feel this way with other diets, like Keto and Paleo, so it's all about finding what works for you.
That's the problem with these sweeping generalizations - they don't apply to everyone.14 -
I lost weight several times doing a low carb way of eating. I liked the fact that I didn't have to think about what I was going to eat, since it was so limited. I didn't count calories, only carbs. Cutting out sugar, beer, grains and potatoes meant I ate a lot fewer calories than I had been eating before. I also found meat, eggs, and cheese more filling than my normal sugary diet. However, low carb was not a sustainable lifestyle for me because I wasn't able to eat the foods I liked best. I missed fruit, ice cream, bread, etc. Over and over I would lose 25-40 pounds, then gain it back. Finally, after losing some weight, I decided to try MFP and seriously track what I was eating to keep from doing the yoyo yet again. I ignored carbs and just focused on calories. It worked. I ate what I wanted, just not as much or as often. I lost an additional 10 pounds and have been maintaining that loss for several years. It helps that I get a lot of exercise, though I lost weight while injured and sidelined by keeping close track of my calories.
I couldn't do IF because I get hungry every few hours, especially when running a lot. I don't sleep if I'm hungry.6 -
The Zone.4
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CICO + Whatever the hell I want diet13
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pierinifitness wrote: »Thanks for sharing. I'm an IF practitioner currently on a short-term OMAD assignment and am a firm believer it helps keep unbridled discipline in peak condition which is necessary for success. I have no Keto experience and know myself well enough that I couldn't do it. Anecdotal experiences are great to share with an open-minded audience and I am part of that small audience here. Thanks again and best wishes for your continued success.
So, you're inferring that most people here are closed-minded?
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You found what works for you. Congrats!
But what works for you would definitely not work for me.
I find starchy carbs (potatoes, rice, pasta, oats) really filling. I find fatty foods like chicken thighs, avocados, cheese, and nuts are a double threat to me - they are very easy for me to overeat and when I get too much fat at once I feel heavy and sluggish. Low carb would be a disaster for me.
I did 16:8 for awhile and it worked really well, but I started waking up really hungry, and after a couple of weeks I decided to listen to my body and went back to a more spread out eating schedule.
I'm currently starting to slowly tweak my diet towards a Mediterranean/Blue Zones/MIND diet way of eating, based on what I've learned about myself over the years and my own research. Well, I mean one of those diets plus Oreos, ice cream, and Coke Zero
You say you just wanted to relay your personal experience, but your OP doesn't sound like that at all, it sounds like you are suggesting what's best for everyone. Based on my years of reading hundreds of posters' personal experience here, it seems pretty clear to me that there is no one right macro balance, eating schedule, food restriction, exercise level etc for everyone. Each individual will have a different "best" way to get into a calorie deficit and then eat comfortably at the right calorie level for the rest of their lives.
Edited to add: And as to the thread title, P90X, Whole30, Keto, and OMAD are also CICO.
You've just explained my relationship to fatty foods - not especially filling and I feel kind of gross after eating a lot of them.
I just learned about the MIND diet yesterday, in a book my mom just bought, 'THE END OF ALZHEIMERS", which says being in mild ketosis is the best way to treat and prevent Alzheimer's, while also referring to actual research showing that the MIND and Med diets, which are definitely NOT low carb, can be effective for Alzheimer's >.<
I'll be starting a thread on Keto and Alzheimer's, probably tomorrow.3 -
kshama2001 wrote: »You found what works for you. Congrats!
But what works for you would definitely not work for me.
I find starchy carbs (potatoes, rice, pasta, oats) really filling. I find fatty foods like chicken thighs, avocados, cheese, and nuts are a double threat to me - they are very easy for me to overeat and when I get too much fat at once I feel heavy and sluggish. Low carb would be a disaster for me.
I did 16:8 for awhile and it worked really well, but I started waking up really hungry, and after a couple of weeks I decided to listen to my body and went back to a more spread out eating schedule.
I'm currently starting to slowly tweak my diet towards a Mediterranean/Blue Zones/MIND diet way of eating, based on what I've learned about myself over the years and my own research. Well, I mean one of those diets plus Oreos, ice cream, and Coke Zero
You say you just wanted to relay your personal experience, but your OP doesn't sound like that at all, it sounds like you are suggesting what's best for everyone. Based on my years of reading hundreds of posters' personal experience here, it seems pretty clear to me that there is no one right macro balance, eating schedule, food restriction, exercise level etc for everyone. Each individual will have a different "best" way to get into a calorie deficit and then eat comfortably at the right calorie level for the rest of their lives.
Edited to add: And as to the thread title, P90X, Whole30, Keto, and OMAD are also CICO.
You've just explained my relationship to fatty foods - not especially filling and I feel kind of gross after eating a lot of them.
I just learned about the MIND diet yesterday, in a book my mom just bought, 'THE END OF ALZHEIMERS", which says being in mild ketosis is the best way to treat and prevent Alzheimer's, while also referring to actual research showing that the MIND and Med diets, which are definitely NOT low carb, can be effective for Alzheimer's >.<
I'll be starting a thread on Keto and Alzheimer's, probably tomorrow.
Yeah, I actually have to strategize to get enough fat on many days. I'm trying to get better at incorporating fats into meals (especially olive oil and nuts) rather than snacking on cheese or nuts and probably overdoing it and making myself sick. The Med and MIND diets seem like "balanced macro" diets in my so far limited research, while I think DASH is a little lower fat.
Its a shame a diet that sits right smack in the middle of the extremes isn't sexy enough for publication. There's a lot of bandwidth (and solid research) between the stereotypical SAD diet, the old-fashioned low fat diet, and keto. It's somewhere in there that I'm aiming for
I guess your mom is still looking for the holy grail?3 -
kshama2001 wrote: »You found what works for you. Congrats!
But what works for you would definitely not work for me.
I find starchy carbs (potatoes, rice, pasta, oats) really filling. I find fatty foods like chicken thighs, avocados, cheese, and nuts are a double threat to me - they are very easy for me to overeat and when I get too much fat at once I feel heavy and sluggish. Low carb would be a disaster for me.
I did 16:8 for awhile and it worked really well, but I started waking up really hungry, and after a couple of weeks I decided to listen to my body and went back to a more spread out eating schedule.
I'm currently starting to slowly tweak my diet towards a Mediterranean/Blue Zones/MIND diet way of eating, based on what I've learned about myself over the years and my own research. Well, I mean one of those diets plus Oreos, ice cream, and Coke Zero
You say you just wanted to relay your personal experience, but your OP doesn't sound like that at all, it sounds like you are suggesting what's best for everyone. Based on my years of reading hundreds of posters' personal experience here, it seems pretty clear to me that there is no one right macro balance, eating schedule, food restriction, exercise level etc for everyone. Each individual will have a different "best" way to get into a calorie deficit and then eat comfortably at the right calorie level for the rest of their lives.
Edited to add: And as to the thread title, P90X, Whole30, Keto, and OMAD are also CICO.
You've just explained my relationship to fatty foods - not especially filling and I feel kind of gross after eating a lot of them.
I just learned about the MIND diet yesterday, in a book my mom just bought, 'THE END OF ALZHEIMERS", which says being in mild ketosis is the best way to treat and prevent Alzheimer's, while also referring to actual research showing that the MIND and Med diets, which are definitely NOT low carb, can be effective for Alzheimer's >.<
I'll be starting a thread on Keto and Alzheimer's, probably tomorrow.
Yeah, I actually have to strategize to get enough fat on many days. I'm trying to get better at incorporating fats into meals (especially olive oil and nuts) rather than snacking on cheese or nuts and probably overdoing it and making myself sick. The Med and MIND diets seem like "balanced macro" diets in my so far limited research, while I think DASH is a little lower fat.
Its a shame a diet that sits right smack in the middle of the extremes isn't sexy enough for publication. There's a lot of bandwidth (and solid research) between the stereotypical SAD diet, the old-fashioned low fat diet, and keto. It's somewhere in there that I'm aiming for
I guess your mom is still looking for the holy grail?
Yep, after showing up for an appointment a day early she freaked out about her "cognitive decline." Heck, I showed up for a job interview a week early when I was 29.
At least we show up early rather than late
I'm not noticing any mental differences in her. She is slowing down a bit physically. And by that I mean at 81 yo she has to push herself a little to walk three miles (including hills.)
I referred her to her doctor for testing for insulin resistance, "inflammation," and other conditions the book said contribute to Alzheimer's with which keto will help.
I'm anticipating her doctor will tell her to keep with her current Med-like diet.5 -
It took me two years to lose the 30lb I came to this site for. It took so long because -
1. I wanted to make slow gradual changes I knew I could sustain. Having lost over 80lb before and gaining some back I really wanted to learn from that.
2. I started lifting and gained some muscle along the way completing two bulk cycles
3. I was injured twice during this time so several weeks on crutches with PT and limited mobility to build back up delayed my process ( torn meniscus and 15mo later fractured tibia plateau both on my right knee and I already have a damaged MCL on the left)
What worked for me was tracking calories and never giving up despite set backs. I ate at, or close to, maintenance when I was on crutches both times.
I prefer eating LCHF but I can’t, I had gallstones and a HF diet is no longer a healthy viable option. There is no magic way to eat so I’ve learned all things in moderation. What I eat each day really depends on my activity any given day and it fluctuates a lot.8 -
Happy to say I've hit my target weight and I'm doing great! After realizing I was a solid 60-70+ pounds overweight, I tried a lot of different things the last few years to get back on track, with more yoyo-ing than I would like. But I've finally hit a balance the last year.
Here's what I've discovered. For real weight loss, a mixture of low-carb and intermittent fasting is the best long-term solution.
CICO + American Diet: Nobody is denying there is a basic scientific truth to CICO, but humans are not bomb calorimeters. The phrase "IIFYM" is mostly garbage (or was for me) and builds obsession around food/counting and guilt around food. You may lose weight, but if you're like me -- and you're forced into a sedentary lifestyle for months due to injury -- you'll just be hungry and tired all the time if there's too many carbs and processed foods in the diet.
CICO + p90x diet: Shed a ton of pounds on this diet and workout program. Couldn't eat enough whole foods to satiate myself. Ate three square meals a day with snacks and still lost weight. This was great for building a lot of foundation muscle, but was largely unsustainable in the long term.
CICO + Whole30: An excellent place to start if you're on a SAD/American diet and eating a lot of processed foods and carbohydrates. It'll help you to build a new experience around food and cooking, to always check labels for added sugar, to learn what's in your food. A very good starter diet if you're considering keto.
CICO + Mediterranian: A fun/delicious diet... but didn't help me to lose weight. Worked for maintenance and while training for a half-marathon where the added carbs were beneficial.
CICO + Keto: It's a magic diet. After trying IIFYM, workout programs, etc. -- after I had a disc injury in my back, it was clear I'd be stuck with limited movement for a few months, keto kept me on track. It's a lot of work, cooking/planning -- but very little tracking (I only counted carbs). The biggest thing on keto? Satiety. On every other diet I've tried I've experienced ravenous hunger.
CICO + OMAD/Intermittent fasting: Now that I'm at target weight, I've been doing this with a low-carb paleo diet with some allowances for maintenance. Keeping low carb helps to quell hunger, and intermittent fasting provides a great deal of control and health benefits. I highly recommend this paired with keto!
How has your experience been? Particularly others who are forced sedentary for long stretches?
FIFY. All of the diets you mentioned, have CICO involved. Because CICO isn't synonymous with counting calories. It isn't something you "do" it is an immutable energy balance that is always in play, regardless of what named 'diet" you are following or what is going on with your weight. Gaining, losing or maintaining - CICO is taking place.11 -
I've gone through a few different eating patterns, but none of them super strict as that simply doesn't work for me.
All weight loss still boils down to CICO.
What makes it easier for me to stay in a calorie deficit may vary widely from what works best for someone else.
My most consistent and appreciable weight loss happened with meal prep and an eye on macros (pretty balanced macros works best for me). Meal prep, however, didn't work great with my lifestyle.
I had steady, but very slow, weight loss with my own variation of OMAD. This worked well with my lifestyle and natural eating patterns, but again, it still required keeping an eye on calories in order to lose. This did work great for at least maintaining as it was tough to overeat on this plan.
Now, I'm using a meal delivery service to try to find the balance between "meal prep" and what works with my lifestyle. Thus far, pretty happy with it, and it's got me on track. I'm still keeping an eye on calories though.
Just because these things work for me certainly does not mean they'd work for other people. And any weight loss STILL boils down to CICO and being in a deficit.
For me, a restrictive diet simply doesn't work and I will never stick to it, probably not even for a week. My workouts and sport require that I fuel my body for what I'm doing, and that means some carbs (plus, there's satiety involved as well).
Nothing wrong with purposefully trying different diets to see what works to keep YOU in a deficit, happy, and satisfied. As long as that is one's goal. Trying a bunch of fad diets thinking you'll find the magic bullet and magically lose weight, only to return to your old way of eating, isn't going to result in long term losses.3 -
kshama2001 wrote: »You found what works for you. Congrats!
But what works for you would definitely not work for me.
I find starchy carbs (potatoes, rice, pasta, oats) really filling. I find fatty foods like chicken thighs, avocados, cheese, and nuts are a double threat to me - they are very easy for me to overeat and when I get too much fat at once I feel heavy and sluggish. Low carb would be a disaster for me.
I did 16:8 for awhile and it worked really well, but I started waking up really hungry, and after a couple of weeks I decided to listen to my body and went back to a more spread out eating schedule.
I'm currently starting to slowly tweak my diet towards a Mediterranean/Blue Zones/MIND diet way of eating, based on what I've learned about myself over the years and my own research. Well, I mean one of those diets plus Oreos, ice cream, and Coke Zero
You say you just wanted to relay your personal experience, but your OP doesn't sound like that at all, it sounds like you are suggesting what's best for everyone. Based on my years of reading hundreds of posters' personal experience here, it seems pretty clear to me that there is no one right macro balance, eating schedule, food restriction, exercise level etc for everyone. Each individual will have a different "best" way to get into a calorie deficit and then eat comfortably at the right calorie level for the rest of their lives.
Edited to add: And as to the thread title, P90X, Whole30, Keto, and OMAD are also CICO.
You've just explained my relationship to fatty foods - not especially filling and I feel kind of gross after eating a lot of them.
I just learned about the MIND diet yesterday, in a book my mom just bought, 'THE END OF ALZHEIMERS", which says being in mild ketosis is the best way to treat and prevent Alzheimer's, while also referring to actual research showing that the MIND and Med diets, which are definitely NOT low carb, can be effective for Alzheimer's >.<
I'll be starting a thread on Keto and Alzheimer's, probably tomorrow.
Yeah, I actually have to strategize to get enough fat on many days. I'm trying to get better at incorporating fats into meals (especially olive oil and nuts) rather than snacking on cheese or nuts and probably overdoing it and making myself sick. The Med and MIND diets seem like "balanced macro" diets in my so far limited research, while I think DASH is a little lower fat.
Its a shame a diet that sits right smack in the middle of the extremes isn't sexy enough for publication. There's a lot of bandwidth (and solid research) between the stereotypical SAD diet, the old-fashioned low fat diet, and keto. It's somewhere in there that I'm aiming for
I guess your mom is still looking for the holy grail?
Regular DASH is lower fat, but they've experimented with higher fat versions (not high fat, but more balanced macros, so around 40%) and the results seem to be as good so long as there's still the focus on fiber and micros. When I was doing the DASH experiment in the thread I was doing higher fat DASH and liked it a lot (I'm plant-based for Lent so can't do the dairy element of DASH right now).
I think the things that all these diets have in common are the important things, the rest is just personal preference.3
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