Opinions on this study on low carbs?
Christismylife
Posts: 93 Member
I ran across this scientific study the other day. I have always been of the opinion that weight loss is all about calories, regardless of their source. This article has me head scratching a bit though. Has anyone else read this or know more about it?
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/11/181114120302.htm
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/11/181114120302.htm
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Replies
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I’ll be curious to see the results of the second study being conducted. I know I personally am less bloated when I eat less starchy and grain based carbs. That is bloat though and not fat. I didn’t see any mention of body composition in the link.
I have my macros very balanced now after getting gallstones when I did LCHF for an extended period. I eat roughly 35% carb, 35% fat, and 30% protein which works for me.4 -
There are multiple studies and meta analyses that show that low carb/ keto show a water weight loss up front but in the long term are no more effective than any other way of eating for fat loss over the longer term. Actually lower fat, higher protein showed the best results but it wasn't a big difference. After a year, all ways of eating in calorie restriction showed pretty much the same results.
In the end, it all comes down to what way of eating you will like, be satisfied by and adhere to till you reach your goal. I eat lower carb and one of the benefits is reduced hunger. It helps me with compliance. I've lost 40 lbs eating this way. But that's me. Keto works for some. High card works for some. High protein, high fiber works for some. Many way to do it. Just have to find the one that works for you.22 -
Here is the full study if anyone is interested: https://www.bmj.com/content/363/bmj.k45830
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There are multiple studies and meta analyses that show that low carb/ keto show a water weight loss up front but in the long term are no more effective than any other way of eating for fat loss over the longer term. Actually lower fat, higher protein showed the best results but it wasn't a big difference. After a year, all ways of eating in calorie restriction showed pretty much the same results.
In the end, it all comes down to what way of eating you will like, be satisfied by and adhere to till you reach your goal. I eat lower carb and one of the benefits is reduced hunger. It helps me with compliance. I've lost 40 lbs eating this way. But that's me. Keto works for some. High card works for some. High protein, high fiber works for some. Many way to do it. Just have to find the one that works for you.
Yep, there's no one way of dieting that's been proven to be more successful than another, after a span of time. It all comes down to reducing calorie intake.
And to take it a step further, within 2-5 years most people fail at weight management after a weight loss and regain, (many times with extra gains), regardless of what plan they used for weight loss. There's very few people who continue to maintain their weight loss beyond 5 years. So, the focus shouldn't be so much on the relatively short weight loss phase, but instead figuring out what strategies you'll be doing to actually keep the weight off for 20, 30, 40+ years.18 -
hippiesaur wrote: »Here is the full study if anyone is interested: https://www.bmj.com/content/363/bmj.k4583
Thanks!
Can someone explain this energy expenditure part in the Discussion? They've concluded that eating less carbs makes people more active?
For my n=1, I sure am sluggish after a pint of Ben & Jerry's, but when I was living in a vegetarian yoga community where there were lots of high carb vegan meals I was quite active.
https://www.bmj.com/content/363/bmj.k4583
"...the study shows that dietary quality can affect energy expenditure independently of body weight, a phenomenon that could be key to obesity treatment, as recently reviewed.50
The difference in total energy expenditure was 209 to 278 kcal/d or about 50 to 70 kcal/d increase for every 10% decrease in the contribution of carbohydrate to total energy intake (1 kcal=4.18 kJ=0.00418 MJ).3 -
Very fascinated by the increase in TDEE (as opposed to effects on weight loss)... particularly in light of controlled protein consumption to minimize thermogenesis. Looking forward to the final study results.
Thanks for posting!0 -
I don't eat low carb, I can't imagine my TDEE being even higher than it is. That would be a recipe for permanent weight loss since I have a hard time keeping up as is.
Also my personal experience is the more carbs I have the more energy and active I become. Too much fat makes me feel sluggish and I my workouts suffer. 10 -
kshama2001 wrote: »Can someone explain this energy expenditure part in the Discussion? They've concluded that eating less carbs makes people more active?
I don't think this is some ground breaking conclusion, as most people who monitor there carb intake are already active. I don't know of any so called "low carb couch potatoes." The average american who stuffs their faces with high amounts of carbs are overweight and thus lazy, burning less calories.
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I don't eat low carb, I can't imagine my TDEE being even higher than it is. That would be a recipe for permanent weight loss since I have a hard time keeping up as is. Also my personal experience is the more carbs I have the more energy and active I become. Too much fat makes me feel sluggish and I my workouts suffer.
When I do strength training I feel like I need more carbs and eat low fat because I don't like the feeling of being stuffed. Somehow I doubt the participants did that kind of exercise...
Their diet is not detailed but I wonder what they ate to get close to 300 grams of carbs when they wanted to lose weight. If it's from veggies I'm not surprised they didn't want to move more. 
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hippiesaur wrote: »I don't eat low carb, I can't imagine my TDEE being even higher than it is. That would be a recipe for permanent weight loss since I have a hard time keeping up as is. Also my personal experience is the more carbs I have the more energy and active I become. Too much fat makes me feel sluggish and I my workouts suffer.
When I do strength training I feel like I need more carbs and eat low fat because I don't like the feeling of being stuffed. Somehow I doubt the participants did that kind of exercise... Their diet is not detailed but I wonder what they ate to get close to 300 grams of carbs when they wanted to lose weight. If it's from veggies I'm not surprised they didn't want to move more.
Yea that is the issue with studies and directly applying them to real life. What they did definitely doesn't apply to my life and my goals. Yea if that was the case, that is a lot of volume which I can't do either. I am so sensitive to feeling too full, I'd rather feel a bit hungry than stuffed.7 -
Being overweight is not special to those who's diets are higher in carbs-they're consuming excess calories from all sorts of foods and macros ratios combinations. The typical SAD diet is full of foods higher in fat AND carbs, as well as excess protein.kshama2001 wrote: »Can someone explain this energy expenditure part in the Discussion? They've concluded that eating less carbs makes people more active?
I don't think this is some ground breaking conclusion, as most people who monitor there carb intake are already active. I don't know of any so called "low carb couch potatoes." The average american who stuffs their faces with high amounts of carbs are overweight and thus lazy, burning less calories.
I'd also love to see the studies where it shows that most people monitoring their carb intake are active? That seems to be a pretty big assumption?
As a sidenote, the only low carb followers I know in real life are yo-yo dieters that lose/regain weight over and over. They're also not very active. I actually don't know anyone in real life, besides myself, who's been able to maintain their weight loss past a few months. And I eat a higher carb diet. Go figure.
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Most people regain the weight they lose from dieting within one or two years, in part because the body adapts by slowing metabolism and burning fewer calories.
Wording can be so much fun. It is my opinion that the "in part" above is least responsible part of the regain equation unless someone has really lost weight at an unhealthy rate. I think weight regain is more likely caused by lifestyle changes/reversions and all-in-all lack of vigilance. Everyone that I know that has kept their weight off has been vigilant.5 -
Being overweight is not special to those who's diets are higher in carbs-they're consuming excess calories from all sorts of foods and macros ratios combinations. The typical SAD diet is full of foods higher in fat AND carbs, as well as excess protein.
My initial comment wasn't meant to single out carbs as the culprit. They are eating in excess, period.I'd also love to see the studies where it shows that most people monitoring their carb intake are active? That seems to be a pretty big assumption?
I'm not sure on exact studies at this time, but in both the LCHF and keto communities where everyone is "low carb", almost everyone is very active.As a sidenote, the only low carb followers I know in real life are yo-yo dieters that lose/regain weight over and over. They're also not very active. I actually don't know anyone in real life, besides myself, who's been able to maintain their weight loss past a few months. And I eat a higher carb diet. Go figure.
Exactly, "yo-yo dieters". They are just looking for a quick fix and never stick to anything. They are overweight and lazy, so you cannot use them as an argument.
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They only had 120 participants complete the study. I don't feel this is enough to make a generalized assumption that low carb all they are trying to make it out to be. Agree with the above statements that long term low carb is no better for weight loss than any other calorie restricted method of weight loss.6
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I am the OP, but I found this article very helpful from Harvard health blog about the keto diet:
https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/ketogenic-diet-is-the-ultimate-low-carb-diet-good-for-you-20170727120892 -
My reaction is that the research study is too small. Needs more participants.5
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Interesting read but it doesn't apply to me either. Carbs give me more energy. I was doing moderate carb for a while and was ok but now on 50-60% carbs I am often getting 15000 steps a day and have more energy.3
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Christismylife wrote: »I am the OP, but I found this article very helpful from Harvard health blog about the keto diet:
https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/ketogenic-diet-is-the-ultimate-low-carb-diet-good-for-you-2017072712089from article wrote:We also do not know much about its long-term effects, probably because it’s so hard to stick with that people can’t eat this way for a long time.
This sentence from that article couldn't be further from the truth. While a ketogenic diet can be hard for some people (most people quit after a week or two), it is actually pretty easy to follow, especially in a 2:1 ratio. I can go out to eat pretty much anywhere (besides italian) and adapt and still eat keto. The struggle can be finding options low in fat, as every cook/chef uses oils and butters in almost every dish.
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Christismylife wrote: »I am the OP, but I found this article very helpful from Harvard health blog about the keto diet:
https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/ketogenic-diet-is-the-ultimate-low-carb-diet-good-for-you-2017072712089from article wrote:We also do not know much about its long-term effects, probably because it’s so hard to stick with that people can’t eat this way for a long time.
This sentence from that article couldn't be further from the truth. While a ketogenic diet can be hard for some people (most people quit after a week or two), it is actually pretty easy to follow, especially in a 2:1 ratio. I can go out to eat pretty much anywhere (besides italian) and adapt and still eat keto. The struggle can be finding options low in fat, as every cook/chef uses oils and butters in almost every dish.
If keto is high fat why would someone want to low fat options?8 -
Christismylife wrote: »I am the OP, but I found this article very helpful from Harvard health blog about the keto diet:
https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/ketogenic-diet-is-the-ultimate-low-carb-diet-good-for-you-2017072712089from article wrote:We also do not know much about its long-term effects, probably because it’s so hard to stick with that people can’t eat this way for a long time.
This sentence from that article couldn't be further from the truth. While a ketogenic diet can be hard for some people (most people quit after a week or two), it is actually pretty easy to follow, especially in a 2:1 ratio. I can go out to eat pretty much anywhere (besides italian) and adapt and still eat keto. The struggle can be finding options low in fat, as every cook/chef uses oils and butters in almost every dish.
If keto is high fat why would someone want to low fat options?
I think he's saying that a low fat diet is harder than keto due to the number of options available. I'm not completely convinced that is correct. Many restaurants that I've been to seem to offer decent low fat options for those who are interested in them (or you can ask for changes to make them lower fat). I was a low fat lacto-ovo vegetarian for a few years in college and I never struggled finding things to eat on the go.3 -
Christismylife wrote: »I am the OP, but I found this article very helpful from Harvard health blog about the keto diet:
https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/ketogenic-diet-is-the-ultimate-low-carb-diet-good-for-you-2017072712089
Vetting sources is a useful skill. The Harvard Health blog is can be posted to by pretty much anyone. There have been some real doosies posted there over time. Not saying this one is but if I'm going to take info from an article, there a very few publishing locations that I have found to be reliable and evidence based.
A couple that are evidence based and objective are the European Journal of Clinical Nutrition, The International Society of Sports Nutrition, Sci-Fit and Weightology are kind of my short list. Beyond that, I would rather depend on reading actual studies and meta-analyses. Vetting those can be important also.
Thing like participant size and length of time, conditions, measurements, controls, reporting methods all play a role.8 -
janejellyroll wrote: »I think he's saying that a low fat diet is harder than keto due to the number of options available. I'm not completely convinced that is correct. Many restaurants that I've been to seem to offer decent low fat options for those who are interested in them (or you can ask for changes to make them lower fat). I was a low fat lacto-ovo vegetarian for a few years in college and I never struggled finding things to eat on the go.
Oh i'm by no means saying its impossible, it just can be a struggle at times. That is unless you ask that no oil or butter be used. I have spent many years working in various restaurants and tons of oils and/or butter and sugar is used most cooking.
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Christismylife wrote: »I am the OP, but I found this article very helpful from Harvard health blog about the keto diet:
https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/ketogenic-diet-is-the-ultimate-low-carb-diet-good-for-you-2017072712089
Vetting sources is a useful skill. The Harvard Health blog is can be posted to by pretty much anyone. There have been some real doosies posted there over time. Not saying this one is but if I'm going to take info from an article, there a very few publishing locations that I have found to be reliable and evidence based.
A couple that are evidence based and objective are the European Journal of Clinical Nutrition, The International Society of Sports Nutrition, Sci-Fit and Weightology are kind of my short list. Beyond that, I would rather depend on reading actual studies and meta-analyses. Vetting those can be important also.
Thing like participant size and length of time, conditions, measurements, controls, reporting methods all play a role.
Thank you! This is really useful info.
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Might have already been stated, but Kevin Hall has poked holes all in this study...8
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Christismylife wrote: »Christismylife wrote: »I am the OP, but I found this article very helpful from Harvard health blog about the keto diet:
https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/ketogenic-diet-is-the-ultimate-low-carb-diet-good-for-you-2017072712089
Vetting sources is a useful skill. The Harvard Health blog is can be posted to by pretty much anyone. There have been some real doosies posted there over time. Not saying this one is but if I'm going to take info from an article, there a very few publishing locations that I have found to be reliable and evidence based.
A couple that are evidence based and objective are the European Journal of Clinical Nutrition, The International Society of Sports Nutrition, Sci-Fit and Weightology are kind of my short list. Beyond that, I would rather depend on reading actual studies and meta-analyses. Vetting those can be important also.
Thing like participant size and length of time, conditions, measurements, controls, reporting methods all play a role.
Thank you! This is really useful info.
You are quite welcome. There is a U.S. government sight PubMed that is a huge databank of studies with an easy to use search function.2 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »The alternative to keto isn't necessarily a low fat diet...there's a whole middle ground.
I was comparing eating out on keto vs a low fat diet. No where did I state or mention that low fat was the alternative. Stop assuming thats what I meant.
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cwolfman13 wrote: »The alternative to keto isn't necessarily a low fat diet...there's a whole middle ground.
I was comparing eating out on keto vs a low fat diet. No where did I state or mention that low fat was the alternative. Stop assuming thats what I meant.
The blog post wasn't recommending a low fat diet though, I think that is why people are confused about exactly why you're arguing against it. This is the diet recommended: " A balanced, unprocessed diet, rich in very colorful fruits and vegetables, lean meats, fish, whole grains, nuts, seeds, olive oil, and lots of water seems to have the best evidence for a long, healthier, vibrant life."
So your comments about a lower fat diet being hard seemed to come out of nowhere (or, at least, I'm not seeing the connection right now).6
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