C-Reactive Protein, cholesterol, gut bacteria

kizanne2

I've started this thread to document my diatary /lifestyle changes to try an impact my blood chemistry and gut bacteria. I did not eat alot of non-healthy foods before but had gotten off the path.

I am and have been overweight for a long time. After my child was born close to 21 years ago I was 206 pounds and have since been between 190 and 210 for those 21 years. I am currently 208-210 depends on the day and this is more then usual.

My last check up my blood work looked like this
C-reactive protein 8.4
total cholesterol 189
triglycerides 217
HDL cholesterol 34
VLDL 43
LDL 112
ratio 5.6

Also my fasting sugar was borderline.
Before when my numbers got out of wack they wanted to put me on statins. I instead brought them way down with diet and exercise. The new wrinkle is the C-reactive protein.

So I've set about controlling this with diet. I will hopefully be adding in some exercise but I have been having foot problems.

I'll be retesting my blood in about 5 weeks. I'll post the results when they come in.

In the beginning, I'll be eating the following and then after a while I'll be changing so reduce calories and increase variety.

breakfast
overnight oats made with 1/2 cup of raw uncooked oats
1/2 cup of raw milk
2 tbs flax
7 grams walnuts
1 tsp cinnamon
1/2 cup of blueberries
1 cup raw milk


Lunch
Large salad with arugala, spinach, baby greens
onion regular and pickled
cucumber
avacado
pico de gallo
sliced white chicken
apple
1 cup raw milk

Dinner
1 cup raw milk
16 oz komboucha
100 gram roast chicken
1/2 cup of onion
1/2 cup black bean
1 small square dark chocolate (70% or more)

Optional snack
1 oz samis chips for fiber
Matcha tea
lots of water
bubbies pickles, saurkraut


I'll keep you posted and be happy to answer any questions. All of the food was chosen for a reason.

I don't really need the neysayers.

imslinky

As a med lab tech in training, I got excited when I saw your values-oops! Anyways, this diet has many good ‘anti-inflammatory’ foods so I’m excited to see your C-reactive protein levels in a few weeks. I’m rooting for you!

AJ_G

kizanne2 wrote: »

I did not eat alot of non-healthy foods before but had gotten off the path.

If you look at individual foods as healthy or unhealthy, that is an extremely flawed way of approaching nutrition, and honestly leads you down a path of developing an unhealthy relationship with food. Foods are not healthy or unhealthy. Diets are healthy or unhealthy. Context matters. There are contexts where eating an apple is unhealthy for you. Conversely there are contexts where eating a pop tart or ice cream are healthy for you. It really comes down to context and dosage (for lack of a better word) and whether your not your diet has everything it needs on a given day or in a given week.

Don't avoid what you perceive to be or what you have told are "unhealthy" foods, just to fall into a restricted diet that will work temporarily and then cause you to binge out on the foods that you have arbitrarily labeled "bad" anytime you're exposed to them. Restricted diets have horrible track record for adherence, and at the end of the day it's more important to pick a diet that you can stick to and helps you create a calorie deficit that gets you to a healthy weight, than it is to pick a diet based on eating only "healthy" or "clean" foods. There is so much noise in the nutrition world that you can focus too much on tiny details. Make sure you see the forest for the trees and look at the big picture. Good luck!

nooshi713

I am interested to see if adding antioxidant rich foods to your diet will any have effect on CRP.

I am a big believer in the benefits of antioxidants in food. I have had a few patients with auto immune diseases swear by a high anti-oxidant diet.

kizanne2

nooshi713 wrote: »

I am interested to see if adding antioxidant rich foods to your diet will any have effect on CRP.

I am a big believer in the benefits of antioxidants in food. I have had a few patients with auto immune diseases swear by a high anti-oxidant diet.

Yes I'm most concerned with the CRP value and I'm hoping the antioxidants as well as the anti-imflammatory foods will help bring this down. I'm also trying to get more sleep as well to improve this number.

AJ_G wrote: »

If you look at individual foods as healthy or unhealthy, that is an extremely flawed way of approaching nutrition, and honestly leads you down a path of developing an unhealthy relationship with food.

..and at the end of the day it's more important to pick a diet that you can stick to and helps you create a calorie deficit that gets you to a healthy weight, ....

Yes except I'm not trying to lose weight. It would be welcome but that isn't the goal. There is loads of medical information that links diet and blood chemistry. That why they have diets specifically for people with high cholesterol. I'm simply extending it to CRP as well.

Once I get my blood chemistry back in order I'll work on reducing calories to achieve weigh loss.

I already feel some better my hands and feet have been having pain for a while. My one foot I think has a bone spur the other foot and my hands are a lot less achy.

imslinky wrote: »

As a med lab tech in training, I got excited when I saw your values-oops! Anyways, this diet has many good ‘anti-inflammatory’ foods so I’m excited to see your C-reactive protein levels in a few weeks. I’m rooting for you!

Yeah opps is right. I have tackled lipid panel before with lots of success but this is my first stab at CRP. As you know they claim a few weeks isn't enough time to see significant changes but last time I was able to reduce the Cholesterol by 50 points in 4 weeks so we shall see.

AJ_G

kizanne2 wrote: »

AJ_G wrote: »

If you look at individual foods as healthy or unhealthy, that is an extremely flawed way of approaching nutrition, and honestly leads you down a path of developing an unhealthy relationship with food.

..and at the end of the day it's more important to pick a diet that you can stick to and helps you create a calorie deficit that gets you to a healthy weight, ....

Yes except I'm not trying to lose weight. It would be welcome but that isn't the goal. There is loads of medical information that links diet and blood chemistry. That why they have diets specifically for people with high cholesterol. I'm simply extending it to CRP as well.

Once I get my blood chemistry back in order I'll work on reducing calories to achieve weigh loss.

I already feel some better my hands and feet have been having pain for a while. My one foot I think has a bone spur the other foot and my hands are a lot less achy.

You said right there in your original post that you are and have been over wieght for a long time. Most negative health markers that show up occur due to being overweight, not specific diet choices. The single most impactful thing you can do to improve your health and objective health markers is to lose weight through a calorie deficit. You could honestly lose weight eating total garbage and your health markers would improve solely due to the weight loss. There was a professor that ate nothing but processed junk food and lost 27 pounds and all of his health markers improved (look up "Twinkie Diet"). Yes it's important to consume a balanced diet with plenty of micronutrients, fiber, and protein, but the MOST IMPORTANT thing is to lose weight, with all others being secondary goals.

psuLemon

AJ_G wrote: »

kizanne2 wrote: »

AJ_G wrote: »

If you look at individual foods as healthy or unhealthy, that is an extremely flawed way of approaching nutrition, and honestly leads you down a path of developing an unhealthy relationship with food.

..and at the end of the day it's more important to pick a diet that you can stick to and helps you create a calorie deficit that gets you to a healthy weight, ....

Yes except I'm not trying to lose weight. It would be welcome but that isn't the goal. There is loads of medical information that links diet and blood chemistry. That why they have diets specifically for people with high cholesterol. I'm simply extending it to CRP as well.

Once I get my blood chemistry back in order I'll work on reducing calories to achieve weigh loss.

I already feel some better my hands and feet have been having pain for a while. My one foot I think has a bone spur the other foot and my hands are a lot less achy.

You said right there in your original post that you are and have been over wieght for a long time. Most negative health markers that show up occur due to being overweight, not specific diet choices. The single most impactful thing you can do to improve your health and objective health markers is to lose weight through a calorie deficit. You could honestly lose weight eating total garbage and your health markers would improve solely due to the weight loss. There was a professor that ate nothing but processed junk food and lost 27 pounds and all of his health markers improved (look up "Twinkie Diet"). Yes it's important to consume a balanced diet with plenty of micronutrients, fiber, and protein, but the MOST IMPORTANT thing is to lose weight, with all others being secondary goals.

Exercise is also a big improver of metabolic markers. And agree, i haven't seen many non weight loss studies showing big benefits.

kizanne2

That would suggest that skinny people don't have cholesterol problems which isn't true.

I do intend to exercise as it is known to help.

I see I'm not allowed a simple safe space to record my journey so I won't be back.

I have indeed in the past changed my blood chemistry without significant weight loss. I dropped 50 points of cholesterol in 4 weeks and 75 in 8 weeks. From 203 to 115 total. But hey what do I know I've only lived it.

psuLemon

kizanne2 wrote: »

That would suggest that skinny people don't have cholesterol problems which isn't true.

I do intend to exercise as it is known to help.

I see I'm not allowed a simple safe space to record my journey so I won't be back.

I have indeed in the past changed my blood chemistry without significant weight loss. I dropped 50 points of cholesterol in 4 weeks and 75 in 8 weeks. From 203 to 115 total. But hey what do I know I've only lived it.

I don't think anyone isn't suggesting to not blog. I think we are trying to give you other information. Exercise and weight loss provides statistically significant impacts on metabolic markers. The main point is don't focus on the 5%, while not focusing on the 95% solution.

Also, yes there are skinny people who have poor metabolic health. But you should consider genetics and exercise. Genetics will almost always win.

AJ_G

kizanne2 wrote: »

That would suggest that skinny people don't have cholesterol problems which isn't true.

I do intend to exercise as it is known to help.

I see I'm not allowed a simple safe space to record my journey so I won't be back.

I have indeed in the past changed my blood chemistry without significant weight loss. I dropped 50 points of cholesterol in 4 weeks and 75 in 8 weeks. From 203 to 115 total. But hey what do I know I've only lived it.

Wow, I'm genuinely surprised by your offended and hostile reply. Neither of us who responded to you meant any offense, we were just trying to give you a little more knowledge on the subject. Sure there are skinny people who have poor cholesterol markers, but that is the exception, not the rule. Yea maybe you can improve your health markers by changing your diet and not losing weight, but why not do the more effective thing first? Nobody is saying that you can't blog and nobody is trying to come at you aggressively, just trying to have a discussion based on actual empirical data and evidence, not anecdotal evidence.

kizanne2

I'm hostile and uneducated because I don't view weight loss as the only solution to the problem? Or that I don't react well when someone comes to a nutrition thread and states eating twinkies and losing weight is healthier than what science has shown to be effective?

Do you believe I wouldn't want to lose weight? Do you believe that I've spent 20 years overweight because what i just too stupid to understand calories in and out? I've spent 20 years eating about 1400 calories a day with some exceptions. I measure, I weigh, and count. I can eat 1400 calories a day and I may lose 1 pound a month. If I exercise I may lose 2 pounds. I've stated multiple times that after I get the chemistry under control I'll work to reduce calories and lose weight but that isn't enough for you. You desire to educate me with your opinion cast dispersions on my plan with your words. I concede that weight loss would most likely help my chemistry. But you should read more before stating I can't really do much without losing weight. There is plenty of ACTUAL data to support diet.

Here is some excerpts of the many medical information I used before embarking on this. I did educate myself.
And I simply wanted to share this with others who may have issues that needed to be tackled. Where Science has shown diet does matter. Of course weight loss would help, but as shown in one of the articles below different foods used during weight loss affected blood chemistry differently. Ever heard of fish oil for heart health that's because Omega-3's help. Sugar by the way raises trigylercerides and can trigger insulin resistance.

From John Hopkins
How can I change my high cholesterol?
At Johns Hopkins, we use an approach to lower cholesterol that includes making small changes to your diet and exercise habits. Instead of changing your total intake of calories, we make suggestions about changes you can make to the types of foods you eat that will contribute to healthier cholesterol levels.

From UCSan DIego Health
"Overweight and obese adult women were enrolled in a one-year behavioral weight loss program and randomly assigned to one of three diets consisting of either: low-fat and high-carbohydrate; low-carbohydrate and high-fat; or a walnut-rich, high-fat and low-carbohydrate diet.

The findings showed that all three dietary plans promoted similar weight loss. Insulin-sensitive women lost the most weight with a low-fat diet but that strategy did not result in the most benefit for lipid levels.

The walnut-rich diet had the most impact on cholesterol levels by decreasing low-density lipoprotein (LDL), or bad cholesterol, and increasing beneficial high-density lipoprotein (HDL). The high-fat, low-carb group, which consumed monounsaturated fats, did not experience the same beneficial effects as the walnut-rich diet, which featured polyunsaturated fatty acids.

At six months, the average weight loss was almost 8 percent among all groups."

Here's an excerpt from WebMD
Some studies have shown that oats, when combined with other cholesterol-lowering foods, can have a big effect on cholesterol levels. In a study published in the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, researchers tested cholesterol-lowering drugs against cholesterol-lowering foods in a group of thirty-four adults with high cholesterol. Oat products were among the chosen foods. The results were striking. The diet lowered cholesterol levels about as well as cholesterol drugs.

And here's an AARP study summarizing a Harvard stucy of dark chocolate
The study analyzed 24 chocolate studies involving 1,106 people. It found that dark chocolate, the kind that contains at least 50 to 70 percent cocoa, lowered blood pressure in all participants, but most notably in those with hypertension. Eric Ding of Harvard Medical School and Brigham and Women's Hospital, a coauthor of the study, says researchers also found that chocolate increased insulin sensitivity, good for lowering diabetes risk.

Dark chocolate also appears to affect cholesterol. The Harvard researchers found some evidence for a small decrease in LDL (bad) cholesterol and a significant increase in HDL (good) cholesterol. Triglycerides, however, were unchanged.

As the researchers write, there is "rather strong evidence" that cocoa consumption improves several important cardiovascular risk factors "and likely reduces the risk of cardiovascular disease."

Heres a link to a science article about gut bacteria and the regulation of cholesterol
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/02/130218092558.htm
Summary:
Researchers have shown that cholesterol metabolism is regulated by bacteria in the small intestine. These findings may be important for the development of new drugs for cardiovascular disease.


And I could cite but won't bother the plethora of information about fruits and veggie's and beans effects on health.

I designed a diet high in fiber, with over 100 grams of protein, healthy fats, lots of antioxidants, and food known to reduce imflammation and cholesterol.

AnnPT77

I hope you'll be very successful.

Before losing weight, I tried making dietary changes (isocaloric, i.e., at maintenance calories) to improve my lipid profile, making many (not all) of the changes you're talking about. (Some of the foods you chose wouldn't work for me, because I'm long-term vegetarian; it's not that I have anything against any of them.) I saw some slight improvement, but not nearly enough. I was already very active, but the exercise seemed to affect mostly blood pressure, which was still high, but not as high as when I'd been doing less exercise.

My doctor was still recommending statins, and I didn't want to take them. (I've already sacrificed enough cognitive bandwidth to chemotherapy, and reduced cognitive ability is an alleged side effect of statins).

I hope you have better results from simply changing what you eat. Without knowing quantities, it's hard to know, but it does look very well-rounded and healthful.

For me, fortunately, weight loss worked pretty well. At last test,

HDL - 65 (up from 36 trough)
LDL - 112 (down from 156 peak)
VLDL - 22 (down from 80 peak)
Ratio - 3.1 (down from 5.9 peak)
Triglycerides - 111 (down from 402 peak)

My CRP was not tested, and my sugar level had always been in the normal range, so was not a focus for re-testing.

I do (and did) eat many of the foods you listed regularly - nearly all of them - though of course not the chicken.

My doctor is no longer recommending statins.

Sincere best wishes!

josette06

imslinky wrote: »

As a med lab tech in training, I got excited when I saw your values-oops! Anyways, this diet has many good ‘anti-inflammatory’ foods so I’m excited to see your C-reactive protein levels in a few weeks. I’m rooting for you!

Hi, future labbie! 😉 [blood banker turned LIS]

AJ_G

kizanne2 wrote: »

I'm hostile and uneducated because I don't view weight loss as the only solution to the problem? Or that I don't react well when someone comes to a nutrition thread and states eating twinkies and losing weight is healthier than what science has shown to be effective?

Do you believe I wouldn't want to lose weight? Do you believe that I've spent 20 years overweight because what i just too stupid to understand calories in and out? I've spent 20 years eating about 1400 calories a day with some exceptions. I measure, I weigh, and count. I can eat 1400 calories a day and I may lose 1 pound a month. If I exercise I may lose 2 pounds. I've stated multiple times that after I get the chemistry under control I'll work to reduce calories and lose weight but that isn't enough for you. You desire to educate me with your opinion cast dispersions on my plan with your words. I concede that weight loss would most likely help my chemistry. But you should read more before stating I can't really do much without losing weight. There is plenty of ACTUAL data to support diet.

Well I never said you're uneducated...you said that, I just said your initial reply had a very hostile tone. This one was even more hostile. Why can't we just be 2 people having a conversation instead of you taking personal offense and breaking down at everything I say? There are so many problems with your reply I honestly don't really know where to start, but I'll give it a try. I was using the Twinkie diet as a way to show how being at a healthy weight is the most impactful thing you can do to have good health markers, more so than anything you can do to change the makeup or composition of individual aspects of your diet. At no point did I say that the Twinkie diet was healthy or a good path to pursue in any way. I also never said that weight loss was the only solution, just that it was by far the most impactful one, so you misrepresented what I said there once again.

In addition, some of the studies you posted are almost completely irrelevant to what you're arguing. The ones that are relevant are no surprise and in no way refute what I've been saying at all. I never said improving diet can't improve health markers, just that it is not going to be as impactful as getting down to a healthy weight. As for me not believing you want to lose weight, I absolutely believe that you want to lose weight, but wanting to lose it and having the discipline and consistency to do it are two very different things. Your claim that you have been consistently eating 1400 calories a day for 20 years ("with some exceptions) and have not lost an appreciable amount of weight is hard to believe. If that's truly the case you should speak to your doctor about getting tested for a metabolic disorder.

kizanne2

First week went well.

I'm am pleasantly surprised that I'm not having hunger issues. Most diets other than atkins gives me hunger issues. I am also happy that I don't seem to be having any cravings. I started the first day with about 1800 calories the daily amount recommended by MyFitness Pal for weight maintainence. After several days as I found that I wasn't as hungry I cut back calories and am now taking in from 1300 to 1500 / day. I cut the lunch milk. 1/2 cup of blueberries and somedays I don't have the millet and flax chips. Some days I cut dinner if I wasn't hungry or ate lunch late.

This week I'm going to have to change something up as I can't go out for lunch and we'll see if I make a big salad at 5:30 am each day (or the night before). I think I'll switch the chicken and beans to lunch and make it a curry (tumeric, ginger garlic) or chili. Save the salad for dinner.

My bowels have improved. My hands and feet ache less (a recent development that seems to be in retreat except for the area where there is a possible bone spur).

I managed several light exercises from strength training, stationary bike, squats. Last week was easy because I was on spring break this week we will see how things go. I normally get between 6000 and 10,000 steps a day in with my job and several flights of stairs. I suspect the pain in my feet will return.

Down side. No weight loss in fact a weight gain. I do expect long term that it will result in weight loss. Some gas with the increased fiber.

zeejane03

Maybe you didn't realize this but you're posting on a forum, not a journaling section. You're going to get feedback on what you post, that's how forums work. If you don't want feedback then maybe try a different venue-there's sites like Sparkspeople that have private diary/blogging/journaling areas. That's not how MFPs forum section is set up though.

lorrpb

kizanne2 wrote: »

I see I'm not allowed a simple safe space to record my journey so I won't be back.

You are focused on good things and in my observations on this site, people who make changes for health seem to be more successful than those who do it primarily for appearance.

MFP has a personal blog feature and you might find that to be more of the "simple safe place" you desire than an open thread in a general forum. Just a thought. Good luck.

zeejane03

lorrpb wrote: »

kizanne2 wrote: »

I see I'm not allowed a simple safe space to record my journey so I won't be back.

You are focused on good things and in my observations on this site, people who make changes for health seem to be more successful than those who do it primarily for appearance.

MFP has a personal blog feature and you might find that to be more of the "simple safe place" you desire than an open thread in a general forum. Just a thought. Good luck.

Good to know, I didn't realize MFP had this option

kizanne2

Yes thank you for the journal idea. I don't have any problem with discussion about nutrition or effective diets to lower CRP and cholesterol. I was hoping that it didn't degenerate to simply lose weight as the only option. The reason I chose to make it public was there are plenty of people who struggle to lose weight or it takes them many months to accomplish this. I was hoping to discuss steps you can do in the meantime to help your blood chemistry.

zeejane03

kizanne2 wrote: »

Yes thank you for the journal idea. I don't have any problem with discussion about nutrition or effective diets to lower CRP and cholesterol. I was hoping that it didn't degenerate to simply lose weight as the only option. The reason I chose to make it public was there are plenty of people who struggle to lose weight or it takes them many months to accomplish this. I was hoping to discuss steps you can do in the meantime to help your blood chemistry.

I normalized a prediabetic glucose number, as well as improved all my other health markers, over the course of a few months with weight loss. Even losing 5-10 lbs will most likely improve health markers, so even if the process takes a few months every pound makes a positive impact. No harm in changing up what kinds of foods you're eating, but like others have said-focusing on losing excess weight will most likely give you the biggest results.

psuLemon

kizanne2 wrote: »

Yes thank you for the journal idea. I don't have any problem with discussion about nutrition or effective diets to lower CRP and cholesterol. I was hoping that it didn't degenerate to simply lose weight as the only option. The reason I chose to make it public was there are plenty of people who struggle to lose weight or it takes them many months to accomplish this. I was hoping to discuss steps you can do in the meantime to help your blood chemistry.

I think you are taking things out of context a bit. You certainly should focus on getting nutrient dense foods, while limiting SFA and added sugars. That goes without saying. Incorporating foods like fish (and other foods rich in Omega 3s), plenty of fiber, and consuming adequate lean proteins, can all provide benefits. In fact, I have been running an experiment with incorporating more fish into my diet (like 3-4x a week) to see if it impacts my LDLs. But there should be a prioritization. Weight loss and exercise rank highest. Following be a diet rich in whole foods, reducing alcohol consumption and not smoking.

ETA: I have been doing this for close to a decade. And from my experience, the largest impacts where from my weight loss. Those years where I made significant improvements to my diet, actually did very little my metabolic markers.