How low can I go?

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lalalacroix
lalalacroix Posts: 834 Member
in Food and Nutrition
With protein? I recently became a pescatarian and also currently eat eggs and dairy. But regardless of my diet, I always feel like I am chasing that protein. I have my protein set to 100 grams but some days struggle to even get 60 grams.

I'm moving towards a plant based diet although not there yet. My main protein sources are eggs, yogurt, nuts, fish, beans and fake meat products like Morningstar. I'd rather be eating a lot more veggies than I do, but can only fit so much food in my belly and protein is very filling to me.

My weight is upper 180s or about 86 kg. I have purposeful exercise 5-6 times per week that includes trail running, hiking and strength training. My body feels like it's always in recovery, mainly because of the running.

I'd love to eat around 60 grams per day. So can I go this low and still have proper muscle recovery? Since I still have over 30 pounds to lose, will this protein amount mean that my body will burn more muscle for energy than if I did eat 100 grams per day? What are the cons, if any, for eating my protein at this level?

Also I'd love to hear from anyone that does eat a lower amount of protein and what your experience has been. Thanks.
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Replies

  • Cassandraw3
    Cassandraw3 Posts: 1,214 Member
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    Unfortunately, I don't think anyone really knows the answer to this question as far as how low can you go with protein. Eating at about 60 g for your body weight sounds like the recommended dietary allowance, however, that is much lower than the general MFP recommendation (about 1g per pound of lean mass).

    Below is one study done (and I have seen a few) that showed the effects of lower vs higher protein on weight loss/muscle retention. Basically, the higher protein group was able to gain a slight bit more of lean mass while in a deficit while the lower protein group maintained lean mass.

    https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/103/3/738/4564609

    I am no expert. This has only been my experience from research I have done. The general theme seems to be, it will not hinder progress if you eat a lower amount of protein, but results seem to be improved when a higher level of protein is consumed while in a deficit and training.
  • corrarjo
    corrarjo Posts: 1,157 Member
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    @lalalacroix, Plant vs. animal protein
    The Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics recommends a minimum daily protein intake of 0.8 grams (g) of protein per kilogram of body weight, or about 60 g for a person who weighs 165 pounds. People aiming to build muscle, pregnant or nursing women, and older adults may need more protein.

    Animal products such as meat, eggs, and milk are naturally high in protein, which is an essential nutrient made up of amino acids. This makes it easier for people who consume animal products to meet their daily protein needs.

    The human body creates 11 amino acids but must get another nine from food. Animal products are complete proteins, meaning they contain all the amino acids. Some plant products, such as soya beans and quinoa, are also complete proteins while others are incomplete proteins.

    A person following a vegan or vegetarian diet should eat a varied diet of plant-based foods to get the required range of amino acids. This includes high-protein foods, such as tofu, tempeh, lentils, nuts, seeds, and quinoa.
  • lemurcat2
    lemurcat2 Posts: 7,885 Member
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    The lowest I personally would want to go, especially when losing, is about 0.6 g per lb of a healthy goal weight. For me that's about 72 g.

    Plenty of people do fine with less, however.
  • lalalacroix
    lalalacroix Posts: 834 Member
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    MikePTY wrote: »
    That is a lower than recommended amount especially considering you are highly active. It could affect the gains you will get from your training as well as muscle retention. I am using non-declarative statements here because there's not way to know for sure exactly how it will affect you.

    I am curious why you struggle to get protein as a pescatarian? Seafood is usually very high in protein. I am not a pescatarian but I do seafood for Lent on Fridays and usually still remain around my protein goal.

    If you are finding it difficult to get naturally from your diet, you may want to look at supplementing it with a protein shake of some kind.

    I eat fish/seafood several times per week but not everyday. It is easier to get closer to my goal when I do eat fish.

    I may have to supplement with protein shake.
  • lalalacroix
    lalalacroix Posts: 834 Member
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    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    The lowest I personally would want to go, especially when losing, is about 0.6 g per lb of a healthy goal weight. For me that's about 72 g.

    Plenty of people do fine with less, however.

    So have you found any issues with eating protein at this level? Has it negatively affected strength?
  • lalalacroix
    lalalacroix Posts: 834 Member
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    Cassandraw3 wrote: »
    Unfortunately, I don't think anyone really knows the answer to this question as far as how low can you go with protein. Eating at about 60 g for your body weight sounds like the recommended dietary allowance, however, that is much lower than the general MFP recommendation (about 1g per pound of lean mass).

    Below is one study done (and I have seen a few) that showed the effects of lower vs higher protein on weight loss/muscle retention. Basically, the higher protein group was able to gain a slight bit more of lean mass while in a deficit while the lower protein group maintained lean mass.

    https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/103/3/738/4564609

    I am no expert. This has only been my experience from research I have done. The general theme seems to be, it will not hinder progress if you eat a lower amount of protein, but results seem to be improved when a higher level of protein is consumed while in a deficit and training.

    Thanks for posting the study. I glanced through but will have to read it more thoroughly later.

  • lemurcat2
    lemurcat2 Posts: 7,885 Member
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    lalalacroix wrote: »
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    The lowest I personally would want to go, especially when losing, is about 0.6 g per lb of a healthy goal weight. For me that's about 72 g.

    Plenty of people do fine with less, however.

    So have you found any issues with eating protein at this level? Has it negatively affected strength?

    I don't notice any difference when I'm eating around that amount vs. more like .8-1 g/lb of a healthy goal weight.

    If I were already very lean and trying to bulk or lose the last bit of fat I'd probably make an effort to hit the .8 g part of the range, but I'm not, although I'm a healthy weight.
  • lalalacroix
    lalalacroix Posts: 834 Member
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    If anyone else has personal experience with lower protein I'd love to hear it.
  • monaraehill2
    monaraehill2 Posts: 61 Member
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    I don't seem to need as much protein as even the FDA recommends. I get between 40-70 grams a day, some days it's much less (when I am exercising) and some days more, (resting and digesting). I feel like more protein is better on a rest day, then exercise days; I need more sugar in my muscles, for those days (so I often carbo load, the night b4). That's my understanding of how our bodies work, but I don't know the definitive answer, based on science. I only know how my body works, and even though protein makes me feel fuller, I don't really want to feel 'fuller' when I am trying to do cardio. I once tried running 3 miles during lunchtime, with 2 bagels in my stomach, from breakfast, and almost collapsed, I felt just awful. You can bet I never tried that again. lol.
  • lalalacroix
    lalalacroix Posts: 834 Member
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    monaraehill2 wrote: »
    I don't seem to need as much protein as even the FDA recommends. I get between 40-70 grams a day, some days it's much less (when I am exercising) and some days more, (resting and digesting). I feel like more protein is better on a rest day, then exercise days; I need more sugar in my muscles, for those days (so I often carbo load, the night b4). That's my understanding of how our bodies work, but I don't know the definitive answer, based on science. I only know how my body works, and even though protein makes me feel fuller, I don't really want to feel 'fuller' when I am trying to do cardio. I once tried running 3 miles during lunchtime, with 2 bagels in my stomach, from breakfast, and almost collapsed, I felt just awful. You can bet I never tried that again. lol.

    Thanks for sharing. I definitely have a harder time getting protein during those more active days. If I'm trail running or hiking more than a couple of hours I will start my day with overnight oats, fruit and maybe toast. I feel much more energized for longer when my breakfast is carb heavy
  • lalalacroix
    lalalacroix Posts: 834 Member
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    kimny72 wrote: »
    I think the problem is that possible effects of inadequate protein won't be immediate and obvious. The tissues that could theoretically suffer like hair and nails and muscle development would take time to develop and wouldn't necessarily be obviously connected.

    IMHO as long as you are getting more than the RDA minimum you are probably not doing much harm, though you may be at a slight disadvantage muscle wise or at some point in the future experience a bit extra hair loss.

    Obviously satiety is a different story, but you don't mention hunger so it sounds like that's not a concern.

    I try to hit 100g. Honestly I rarely make it, but aiming for it keeps me well over the bare minimum and hopefully that's good enough.

    Very valid points. I've had hair loss before, not fun. I was thinking of maybe sticking with 80 grams for a few weeks and seeing how it affects me but you're right, I may not show any effects for many weeks.

    Hunger isn't an issue. I've been adding in more calorie rich ingredients because I'm having a difficult time eating my calorie goal due to exercise + more plants and grains are so filling for me.
  • kshama2001
    kshama2001 Posts: 27,897 Member
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    lalalacroix wrote: »
    kimny72 wrote: »
    I think the problem is that possible effects of inadequate protein won't be immediate and obvious. The tissues that could theoretically suffer like hair and nails and muscle development would take time to develop and wouldn't necessarily be obviously connected.

    IMHO as long as you are getting more than the RDA minimum you are probably not doing much harm, though you may be at a slight disadvantage muscle wise or at some point in the future experience a bit extra hair loss.

    Obviously satiety is a different story, but you don't mention hunger so it sounds like that's not a concern.

    I try to hit 100g. Honestly I rarely make it, but aiming for it keeps me well over the bare minimum and hopefully that's good enough.

    Very valid points. I've had hair loss before, not fun. I was thinking of maybe sticking with 80 grams for a few weeks and seeing how it affects me but you're right, I may not show any effects for many weeks.

    Hunger isn't an issue. I've been adding in more calorie rich ingredients because I'm having a difficult time eating my calorie goal due to exercise + more plants and grains are so filling for me.

    What about more cottage cheese and/or Greek yogurt? Do you put yogurt in your overnight oats?
  • nooshi713
    nooshi713 Posts: 4,877 Member
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    I recently cut out meat and dairy as well. I am eating more quinoa and have a protein shake daily. Along with eggs and occasional fish, it is enough.
  • Psychgrrl
    Psychgrrl Posts: 3,177 Member
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    I add unsweetened soy milk to my (protein) hot cocoa and protein powder for creaminess and additional protein. I love tofu, extra firm takes in the flavor of what it’s cooked in, and I like garlic olive oil. I also put endamame on my salads and eat beans. Lentils are also a good source of iron.

    Is yogurt OK for you? Plain Aussie or Icelandic yogurt has about 20 grams of protein per serving. That’s usually my dinner, along with some fruit and a little Kashi cereal.
  • lalalacroix
    lalalacroix Posts: 834 Member
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    kshama2001 wrote: »
    lalalacroix wrote: »
    kimny72 wrote: »
    I think the problem is that possible effects of inadequate protein won't be immediate and obvious. The tissues that could theoretically suffer like hair and nails and muscle development would take time to develop and wouldn't necessarily be obviously connected.

    IMHO as long as you are getting more than the RDA minimum you are probably not doing much harm, though you may be at a slight disadvantage muscle wise or at some point in the future experience a bit extra hair loss.

    Obviously satiety is a different story, but you don't mention hunger so it sounds like that's not a concern.

    I try to hit 100g. Honestly I rarely make it, but aiming for it keeps me well over the bare minimum and hopefully that's good enough.

    Very valid points. I've had hair loss before, not fun. I was thinking of maybe sticking with 80 grams for a few weeks and seeing how it affects me but you're right, I may not show any effects for many weeks.

    Hunger isn't an issue. I've been adding in more calorie rich ingredients because I'm having a difficult time eating my calorie goal due to exercise + more plants and grains are so filling for me.

    What about more cottage cheese and/or Greek yogurt? Do you put yogurt in your overnight oats?

    I'm kinda off the cottage cheese right now - just ate too much for too long.

    I put yogurt in everything from overnight oats, to topping on potatoes, mixed with salsa for a dip, and every night with fruit and nuts.
  • lalalacroix
    lalalacroix Posts: 834 Member
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    Psychgrrl wrote: »
    I add unsweetened soy milk to my (protein) hot cocoa and protein powder for creaminess and additional protein. I love tofu, extra firm takes in the flavor of what it’s cooked in, and I like garlic olive oil. I also put endamame on my salads and eat beans. Lentils are also a good source of iron.

    Is yogurt OK for you? Plain Aussie or Icelandic yogurt has about 20 grams of protein per serving. That’s usually my dinner, along with some fruit and a little Kashi cereal.

    I drink cow's milk currently. If soy has more protein I probably wouldn't care about switching, although I like the taste of almond milk much more.

    I love edamame and have lentils every so often. My bean of choice is black beans. Yummy. I try to have a bean source daily though.

    I eat Fage 0% which I think has about 22 grams per cup.
  • lalalacroix
    lalalacroix Posts: 834 Member
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    Today I hit 93 grams from yogurt, tvp, nuts, bread and pasta, nutritional yeast and some other smaller sources.
  • mstarks01
    mstarks01 Posts: 109 Member
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    I don't think going lower is advised, especially if you are trying to lose weight. A higher protein diet will assist with muscle retention. I am pescetarian as well and am currently hitting my goal of 140 grams most days. A typical day for me looks like this:

    Breakfast:
    1 cup egg beaters with 2 Morningstar Farms breakfast sausages

    Mid-morning Snack:
    1 cup of Light & Fit Greek yogurt with blueberries mixed in.

    Lunch:
    I can of tuna with olive oil mayo or avocado OR
    2 Tbsp peanut butter
    8" whole wheat wrap

    Post-workout shake with 8oz 1% milk.

    Dinner:
    salmon with spinach and a sweet potato

    Snacks:
    Apple, pear or something along those lines.

    Dessert (sometimes):
    1/2 pint of Halo Top ice cream

    This gives me 140 grams of protein in about 1,200 calories.

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