paleo/low carb/keto vs calorie counting
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Ducks47
Posts: 131 Member
What made you opt for this method over calorie counting? Or do you think calorie counting is better? Why?
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Replies
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I do both keto and calorie counting. I think they both play a role I weight loss. With keto as you know it’s low carb high fat. When you look into the science behind why type 2 diabetics are the way they are, It all comes down to the carbs. carbs are simply not meant to be eaten in the portions we so often indulge in. Americans often have more and more access to them and that’s why we are seeing the increase in obesity. There is also the science behind the calories in and out. Your body can only burn so many calories in a day. So if your blowing over your limit your body has to work harder and harder to try and get through all the calories consumed, if you go to low your body goes into starvation. I usually stick to making sure I keep to my macros and I actually have the problem of not eating enough on the keto diet because I’m so full constantly. I do about 25-35 grams of carbs, and then try to eat more fat then protein but I don’t worry about it as much as the carbs. Right now I’m averaging 1200 calories in everyday. That’s super low considering how much I weigh and that I usually burn 3000 calories in a day. But without the massive amounts of carbs in my life I’m simply not hungry. I used to eat everything in sight but a sugar detox really tells you what your body actually wants.19
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Why one or the other? Anyone who says no one needs to count calories while doing paleo/low carb/keto is just plain wrong. While it may be true that some people find those WOE satiating enough that they can maintain a calorie deficit without counting, that is by no means universally true.
I don't find fat especially satiating, and can eat a heck of a lot of it, so keto wouldn't work for me. But I am happy for the people who have found a WOE that works for them.5 -
Neither for me. I don't follow any of those diets nor do I calorie count. And I don't think one is better than the other, I think whatever works and makes you feel and perform your best.5
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A low carb style of diet does not work for me without calorie counting because I have poor portion control. I have trouble stopping when satisfied. I have to have a number to tell me when to stop, and usually I'm fine and not hungry later.2
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All diets work through calories in vs calories out. Your body counts calories for you, whether you are counting them yourself or not, or doing keto, low carb, paleo, potato diet, whichever. If you eat less than you burn, you will lose weight. If you eat more than you burn, you will gain weight.
Some people may find certain diets or WOE helps keep them satiated and within their goals better. That's great for them. But there's no magic to it. Calorie counting can be done in conjunction with different WOEs, or on its own.4 -
Why do you feel these are mutually exclusive?1
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I prefer calorie counting without any other qualifiers.
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soliver1999 wrote: »I do both keto and calorie counting. I think they both play a role I weight loss. With keto as you know it’s low carb high fat. When you look into the science behind why type 2 diabetics are the way they are, It all comes down to the carbs. carbs are simply not meant to be eaten in the portions we so often indulge in. Americans often have more and more access to them and that’s why we are seeing the increase in obesity. There is also the science behind the calories in and out. Your body can only burn so many calories in a day. So if your blowing over your limit your body has to work harder and harder to try and get through all the calories consumed, if you go to low your body goes into starvation. I usually stick to making sure I keep to my macros and I actually have the problem of not eating enough on the keto diet because I’m so full constantly. I do about 25-35 grams of carbs, and then try to eat more fat then protein but I don’t worry about it as much as the carbs. Right now I’m averaging 1200 calories in everyday. That’s super low considering how much I weigh and that I usually burn 3000 calories in a day. But without the massive amounts of carbs in my life I’m simply not hungry. I used to eat everything in sight but a sugar detox really tells you what your body actually wants.
Humans have been eating carbs for 1000s of years. Bread and potatoes are not a modern invention. Throughout many points in history, diets were higher in carbs than they are now, as meat was a delicacy that was really only afforded by the rich. That's why when there was a potato blight, hundreds of thousands of people died of famine. Bread, rice, potatoes, etc, have been staples of world diets for millennium.
Americans have become obese in modern times for a number of reasons. Very little of which have to do with carbs.
Activity level - We are much less active than we used to be. Modernization and technology mean we move much less in our daily lives, there for have a lower "calories out"
Food availability - That food in general is fully available to more people also leads to an increase in obesity, simply because people have the opportunity to consume as many calories as they want. For most of the population for most of human history, that was not the case.
Rise of eating for pleasure/dining out - The increase in people dining regularly at restaurants and fast food has certainly had an impact, but if anything, most of this comes from the food being high fat, not high carb. Most food prepared at restaurants is much higher fat than it needs to be, because it is cooked with lots of oils and creams in order to enhance flavor.
One only needs to look at a culture like the Japanese, which has long had a high carb diet while also having low obesity and longer lifespans than their western counterparts, to know that carbs are not this big enemy they have been made out to be.
As far as your own personal intake, if you are actually intaking 1200 and burning 3000, that is way too high a deficit and not healthy for you.13 -
soliver1999 wrote: »I do both keto and calorie counting. I think they both play a role I weight loss. With keto as you know it’s low carb high fat. When you look into the science behind why type 2 diabetics are the way they are, It all comes down to the carbs. carbs are simply not meant to be eaten in the portions we so often indulge in. Americans often have more and more access to them and that’s why we are seeing the increase in obesity. There is also the science behind the calories in and out. Your body can only burn so many calories in a day. So if your blowing over your limit your body has to work harder and harder to try and get through all the calories consumed, if you go to low your body goes into starvation. I usually stick to making sure I keep to my macros and I actually have the problem of not eating enough on the keto diet because I’m so full constantly. I do about 25-35 grams of carbs, and then try to eat more fat then protein but I don’t worry about it as much as the carbs. Right now I’m averaging 1200 calories in everyday. That’s super low considering how much I weigh and that I usually burn 3000 calories in a day. But without the massive amounts of carbs in my life I’m simply not hungry. I used to eat everything in sight but a sugar detox really tells you what your body actually wants.
Carbs do not cause diabetes and also do not cause weight gain. Too many calories cause weight gain.
I eat a high carb diet and lose weight. I eat potatoes and bread and a lot of other delicious vegetables, fruit and grains that are mainly carbs. I have excellent energy levels and am very active and the carbs are very helpful for my lifestyle. To make a blanket statement that carbs cause obesity is just factually not true.
OP, the best diet is the one you will stick to. And no matter which diet you choose, calories always matter.10 -
soliver1999 wrote: »I do both keto and calorie counting. I think they both play a role I weight loss. With keto as you know it’s low carb high fat. When you look into the science behind why type 2 diabetics are the way they are, It all comes down to the carbs. carbs are simply not meant to be eaten in the portions we so often indulge in. Americans often have more and more access to them and that’s why we are seeing the increase in obesity. There is also the science behind the calories in and out. Your body can only burn so many calories in a day. So if your blowing over your limit your body has to work harder and harder to try and get through all the calories consumed, if you go to low your body goes into starvation. I usually stick to making sure I keep to my macros and I actually have the problem of not eating enough on the keto diet because I’m so full constantly. I do about 25-35 grams of carbs, and then try to eat more fat then protein but I don’t worry about it as much as the carbs. Right now I’m averaging 1200 calories in everyday. That’s super low considering how much I weigh and that I usually burn 3000 calories in a day. But without the massive amounts of carbs in my life I’m simply not hungry. I used to eat everything in sight but a sugar detox really tells you what your body actually wants.
Humans have been eating carbs for 1000s of years. Bread and potatoes are not a modern invention. Throughout many points in history, diets were higher in carbs than they are now, as meat was a delicacy that was really only afforded by the rich. That's why when there was a potato blight, hundreds of thousands of people died of famine. Bread, rice, potatoes, etc, have been staples of world diets for millennium.
Americans have become obese in modern times for a number of reasons. Very little of which have to do with carbs.
Activity level - We are much less active than we used to be. Modernization and technology mean we move much less in our daily lives, there for have a lower "calories out"
Food availability - That food in general is fully available to more people also leads to an increase in obesity, simply because people have the opportunity to consume as many calories as they want. For most of the population for most of human history, that was not the case.
Rise of eating for pleasure/dining out - The increase in people dining regularly at restaurants and fast food has certainly had an impact, but if anything, most of this comes from the food being high fat, not high carb. Most food prepared at restaurants is much higher fat than it needs to be, because it is cooked with lots of oils and creams in order to enhance flavor.
One only needs to look at a culture like the Japanese, which has long had a high carb diet while also having low obesity and longer lifespans than their western counterparts, to know that carbs are not this big enemy they have been made out to be.
As far as your own personal intake, if you are actually intaking 1200 and burning 3000, that is way too high a deficit and not healthy for you.
I'd like to add modern All-you-can-eat-buffets to your list. Not at all my favorite restauants, and I'd have to bank an entire day's worth of calories to even consider going. There seems to be a lot of pressure around, piling up as much food on the plates as possible, just to get the most out of the money. It's an embarrassing display of gluttony, and it hasn't been a pretty sight since Ancient Rome, Im sure..
To the OP's oringinal question: It depends on your goals. If you don't mind gaining weight, you can eat up on any nutriton plan. Losing weight only works with counting calories, regardless of how you call your diet.2 -
What made you opt for this method over calorie counting? Or do you think calorie counting is better? Why?
to lose weight you need to eat at a calorie deficit over time.
people eat paleo/low carb/keto/"clean" and maintain or gain weight as well as lose. those are just ways of eating. some may find they naturally eat fewer calories on one of those and thus don't need to calorie count to lose weight but that would be a small percentage of people.
most people STILL need to calorie count to lose weight regardless of their chosen way of eating.1 -
soliver1999 wrote: »I do both keto and calorie counting. I think they both play a role I weight loss. With keto as you know it’s low carb high fat. When you look into the science behind why type 2 diabetics are the way they are, It all comes down to the carbs. carbs are simply not meant to be eaten in the portions we so often indulge in. Americans often have more and more access to them and that’s why we are seeing the increase in obesity. There is also the science behind the calories in and out. Your body can only burn so many calories in a day. So if your blowing over your limit your body has to work harder and harder to try and get through all the calories consumed, if you go to low your body goes into starvation. I usually stick to making sure I keep to my macros and I actually have the problem of not eating enough on the keto diet because I’m so full constantly. I do about 25-35 grams of carbs, and then try to eat more fat then protein but I don’t worry about it as much as the carbs. Right now I’m averaging 1200 calories in everyday. That’s super low considering how much I weigh and that I usually burn 3000 calories in a day. But without the massive amounts of carbs in my life I’m simply not hungry. I used to eat everything in sight but a sugar detox really tells you what your body actually wants.
Humans have been eating carbs for 1000s of years. Bread and potatoes are not a modern invention. Throughout many points in history, diets were higher in carbs than they are now, as meat was a delicacy that was really only afforded by the rich. That's why when there was a potato blight, hundreds of thousands of people died of famine. Bread, rice, potatoes, etc, have been staples of world diets for millennium.
Americans have become obese in modern times for a number of reasons. Very little of which have to do with carbs.
Activity level - We are much less active than we used to be. Modernization and technology mean we move much less in our daily lives, there for have a lower "calories out"
Food availability - That food in general is fully available to more people also leads to an increase in obesity, simply because people have the opportunity to consume as many calories as they want. For most of the population for most of human history, that was not the case.
Rise of eating for pleasure/dining out - The increase in people dining regularly at restaurants and fast food has certainly had an impact, but if anything, most of this comes from the food being high fat, not high carb. Most food prepared at restaurants is much higher fat than it needs to be, because it is cooked with lots of oils and creams in order to enhance flavor.
One only needs to look at a culture like the Japanese, which has long had a high carb diet while also having low obesity and longer lifespans than their western counterparts, to know that carbs are not this big enemy they have been made out to be.
As far as your own personal intake, if you are actually intaking 1200 and burning 3000, that is way too high a deficit and not healthy for you.
I'd like to add modern All-you-can-eat-buffets to your list. Not at all my favorite restauants, and I'd have to bank an entire day's worth of calories to even consider going. There seems to be a lot of pressure around, piling up as much food on the plates as possible, just to get the most out of the money. It's an embarrassing display of gluttony, and it hasn't been a pretty sight since Ancient Rome, Im sure..
To the OP's oringinal question: It depends on your goals. If you don't mind gaining weight, you can eat up on any nutriton plan. Losing weight only works with counting calories, regardless of how you call your diet.
Yes, at most restaurants here in the US, I can count on getting two and sometimes three meals from an entree. I often have a hard time finishing what is supposedly an appetizer.
In my Thai cookbook, the portions are MUCH smaller than American servings. For example, for the Pad Se Ew (beef, noodles, veggies) which is supposed to serve 4, I double the meat and add extra veggies and we still only get three servings out of it.2 -
soliver1999 wrote: »I do both keto and calorie counting. I think they both play a role I weight loss. With keto as you know it’s low carb high fat. When you look into the science behind why type 2 diabetics are the way they are, It all comes down to the carbs. carbs are simply not meant to be eaten in the portions we so often indulge in. Americans often have more and more access to them and that’s why we are seeing the increase in obesity. There is also the science behind the calories in and out. Your body can only burn so many calories in a day. So if your blowing over your limit your body has to work harder and harder to try and get through all the calories consumed, if you go to low your body goes into starvation. I usually stick to making sure I keep to my macros and I actually have the problem of not eating enough on the keto diet because I’m so full constantly. I do about 25-35 grams of carbs, and then try to eat more fat then protein but I don’t worry about it as much as the carbs. Right now I’m averaging 1200 calories in everyday. That’s super low considering how much I weigh and that I usually burn 3000 calories in a day. But without the massive amounts of carbs in my life I’m simply not hungry. I used to eat everything in sight but a sugar detox really tells you what your body actually wants.
Humans have been eating carbs for 1000s of years. Bread and potatoes are not a modern invention. Throughout many points in history, diets were higher in carbs than they are now, as meat was a delicacy that was really only afforded by the rich. That's why when there was a potato blight, hundreds of thousands of people died of famine. Bread, rice, potatoes, etc, have been staples of world diets for millennium.
Americans have become obese in modern times for a number of reasons. Very little of which have to do with carbs.
Activity level - We are much less active than we used to be. Modernization and technology mean we move much less in our daily lives, there for have a lower "calories out"
Food availability - That food in general is fully available to more people also leads to an increase in obesity, simply because people have the opportunity to consume as many calories as they want. For most of the population for most of human history, that was not the case.
Rise of eating for pleasure/dining out - The increase in people dining regularly at restaurants and fast food has certainly had an impact, but if anything, most of this comes from the food being high fat, not high carb. Most food prepared at restaurants is much higher fat than it needs to be, because it is cooked with lots of oils and creams in order to enhance flavor.
One only needs to look at a culture like the Japanese, which has long had a high carb diet while also having low obesity and longer lifespans than their western counterparts, to know that carbs are not this big enemy they have been made out to be.
As far as your own personal intake, if you are actually intaking 1200 and burning 3000, that is way too high a deficit and not healthy for you.
Just throwing it out there. I'm a white person living in Japan and I gained so much weight eating Japanese food. Not a portion problem. Rice makes me fat. All of the noodles here, soba, ramen, soumen... all of it makes me gain weight.11 -
kittyinjapan wrote: »soliver1999 wrote: »I do both keto and calorie counting. I think they both play a role I weight loss. With keto as you know it’s low carb high fat. When you look into the science behind why type 2 diabetics are the way they are, It all comes down to the carbs. carbs are simply not meant to be eaten in the portions we so often indulge in. Americans often have more and more access to them and that’s why we are seeing the increase in obesity. There is also the science behind the calories in and out. Your body can only burn so many calories in a day. So if your blowing over your limit your body has to work harder and harder to try and get through all the calories consumed, if you go to low your body goes into starvation. I usually stick to making sure I keep to my macros and I actually have the problem of not eating enough on the keto diet because I’m so full constantly. I do about 25-35 grams of carbs, and then try to eat more fat then protein but I don’t worry about it as much as the carbs. Right now I’m averaging 1200 calories in everyday. That’s super low considering how much I weigh and that I usually burn 3000 calories in a day. But without the massive amounts of carbs in my life I’m simply not hungry. I used to eat everything in sight but a sugar detox really tells you what your body actually wants.
Humans have been eating carbs for 1000s of years. Bread and potatoes are not a modern invention. Throughout many points in history, diets were higher in carbs than they are now, as meat was a delicacy that was really only afforded by the rich. That's why when there was a potato blight, hundreds of thousands of people died of famine. Bread, rice, potatoes, etc, have been staples of world diets for millennium.
Americans have become obese in modern times for a number of reasons. Very little of which have to do with carbs.
Activity level - We are much less active than we used to be. Modernization and technology mean we move much less in our daily lives, there for have a lower "calories out"
Food availability - That food in general is fully available to more people also leads to an increase in obesity, simply because people have the opportunity to consume as many calories as they want. For most of the population for most of human history, that was not the case.
Rise of eating for pleasure/dining out - The increase in people dining regularly at restaurants and fast food has certainly had an impact, but if anything, most of this comes from the food being high fat, not high carb. Most food prepared at restaurants is much higher fat than it needs to be, because it is cooked with lots of oils and creams in order to enhance flavor.
One only needs to look at a culture like the Japanese, which has long had a high carb diet while also having low obesity and longer lifespans than their western counterparts, to know that carbs are not this big enemy they have been made out to be.
As far as your own personal intake, if you are actually intaking 1200 and burning 3000, that is way too high a deficit and not healthy for you.
Just throwing it out there. I'm a white person living in Japan and I gained so much weight eating Japanese food. Not a portion problem. Rice makes me fat. All of the noodles here, soba, ramen, soumen... all of it makes me gain weight.
I'm not clear what argument is being made here, is the argument that rice and noodles will cause white people to gain weight even if excess calories aren't consumed but that Asian people are somehow immune from this?
There are areas of the world where non-Asian people eat noodles and rice regularly and they still manage to avoid US rates of obesity. This makes it hard to conclude that it is the rice and noodles themselves, combined with non-Asian heritage, that are the problem.9 -
kittyinjapan wrote: »soliver1999 wrote: »I do both keto and calorie counting. I think they both play a role I weight loss. With keto as you know it’s low carb high fat. When you look into the science behind why type 2 diabetics are the way they are, It all comes down to the carbs. carbs are simply not meant to be eaten in the portions we so often indulge in. Americans often have more and more access to them and that’s why we are seeing the increase in obesity. There is also the science behind the calories in and out. Your body can only burn so many calories in a day. So if your blowing over your limit your body has to work harder and harder to try and get through all the calories consumed, if you go to low your body goes into starvation. I usually stick to making sure I keep to my macros and I actually have the problem of not eating enough on the keto diet because I’m so full constantly. I do about 25-35 grams of carbs, and then try to eat more fat then protein but I don’t worry about it as much as the carbs. Right now I’m averaging 1200 calories in everyday. That’s super low considering how much I weigh and that I usually burn 3000 calories in a day. But without the massive amounts of carbs in my life I’m simply not hungry. I used to eat everything in sight but a sugar detox really tells you what your body actually wants.
Humans have been eating carbs for 1000s of years. Bread and potatoes are not a modern invention. Throughout many points in history, diets were higher in carbs than they are now, as meat was a delicacy that was really only afforded by the rich. That's why when there was a potato blight, hundreds of thousands of people died of famine. Bread, rice, potatoes, etc, have been staples of world diets for millennium.
Americans have become obese in modern times for a number of reasons. Very little of which have to do with carbs.
Activity level - We are much less active than we used to be. Modernization and technology mean we move much less in our daily lives, there for have a lower "calories out"
Food availability - That food in general is fully available to more people also leads to an increase in obesity, simply because people have the opportunity to consume as many calories as they want. For most of the population for most of human history, that was not the case.
Rise of eating for pleasure/dining out - The increase in people dining regularly at restaurants and fast food has certainly had an impact, but if anything, most of this comes from the food being high fat, not high carb. Most food prepared at restaurants is much higher fat than it needs to be, because it is cooked with lots of oils and creams in order to enhance flavor.
One only needs to look at a culture like the Japanese, which has long had a high carb diet while also having low obesity and longer lifespans than their western counterparts, to know that carbs are not this big enemy they have been made out to be.
As far as your own personal intake, if you are actually intaking 1200 and burning 3000, that is way too high a deficit and not healthy for you.
Just throwing it out there. I'm a white person living in Japan and I gained so much weight eating Japanese food. Not a portion problem. Rice makes me fat. All of the noodles here, soba, ramen, soumen... all of it makes me gain weight.
I'm a white person who eats a lot of rice (we eat plenty in Latin America too) to lose weight. I am not sure of a lot of things in this life, but one of them is that your whiteness does not make you handle rice differently than people of other races.
It's possible you have gained weight once you moved to Japan because you were eating cuisine that was unfamiliar to you, so you were not able to intuitively eat correct portion sizes as well as you were with a typical American diet. But there is nothing about rice, noodles, etc that "made you fat". Eating more calories than you burned is what did that. Eating those things in excess was simply the vehicle for it.10 -
Just leaving this here.
4 -
stevensben000 wrote: »The Paleo diet is focused around unprocessed, natural foods, and is related to food that people were able to eat during the paleolithic era. Paleo is meant to be a long-term lifestyle change, and not just a quick diet to lose weight. People often also confuse a Paleo diet with Whole 30, which is a 30-day "reset" diet designed to detox the body of chemicals and additives.
Ketogenic and low carb diets are just focused on not eating carbs. When you don't eat carbs, the body enters what is called ketosis and burns fat at a quicker rate, since fats burn faster than carbs do. However, while carbs are a no-no, you have to eat some, around 25g per day, to keep the body healthy. The carbs that you choose to eat are also very important because you want to choose complex carbs over simple carbs. Complex carbs, like vegetables, contain fiber which is essential on a keto diet, while simple carbs, like candy and chocolate, are just not good for you no matter what.
Calorie counting is not exclusive to itself. It's important while following a Paleo or Keto diet that you stay under a specific number of calories, or the diet won't work. You can use a TDEE (Total daily energy expenditure) calculator to determine how many calories your body burns in a day. You'll want to eat about 75% of that number per day to lose weight at a healthy rate.
[Edited by MFP mods]
I'll add that the Paleolithic diet is more like our modern fantasy of what people were able to eat during the Paleolithic era, not what they actually ate.
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/people-and-culture/food/the-plate/2014/04/22/prehistoric-dining-the-real-paleo-diet/6
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