Vegans: Why not vegetarianism?

janejellyroll

VictoriaTuel wrote: »

denisesalsera24 wrote: »

To answer the op, I cut all dairy from my diet due to ibs, then red meat. After studying nutrition to see what else could help end my suffering, I went fully plant based.

My diet is vegan, but not my religion and I think it's the preachy, judgemental stigma of a few that turn many people away from considering having a healthy diet.

My family immediate bristled and resisted my dietary choice because of the reputation that the "church of vegan" has put out there until I explained to them MY health benefits, and the fact I don't get sick anymore. They were open to small changes and trying my recipes.

I've been able to be more open to the research on the environment and animal rights, but love, grace, and patience are needed for my family and subsequently those around me I want to "convert".

Just something to think about.

I think there's merit to most people's vegan advocacy/activism/awareness efforts. If no one is taking a hard line and being aggressive, people will just paint the semi-aggressive people as extremist instead. And it's harder to ignore people if they are making you feel strong emotions.

Personally, I think every person has a communication style that suits them best, and while I am a "chill vegan", as my friends put it (I live with a hunter), I don't think that's inherently better than speaking out strongly and passionately in a way that makes people uncomfortable whenever you see people doing something you believe is inherently cruel. I hate confrontation and know I will get farther with the people I'm trying to influence with a casual approach, and have successfully "converted" 2 of my friends to veganism and helped many eat more plant based, but everyone responds better to different approaches. Some people need facts, some people need emotive pleas, some people need to have no escape from their hypocrisy, some people are just going to tell and wave bacon in your face like it isn't a carcinogen.

My mom is pescatarian now *insert eye roll because she's been introducing her diet as "eating more plant based" for years at this point*, but my dad won't be swayed unless I lay out detailed evidence in person and yell at him a bit. That's just his personality. I'm not around enough to do that, so I've been focusing on my mom, but I'll be with him for about a month soon, and I fully intend in being kind of an *kitten* about it. In my mind us feeling some type of way is way better than continuous, unnecessary bloodshed.

Tl;dr: People respond to different tactics, however people feel confident advocating is probably the best, most sustainable way for them to do so.

I think multiple things can be true here.

Person A is open to certain methods of persuasion and will be closed off to other methods of persuasion.

Person B has certain methods of persuasion with which they're most comfortable.

The most effective activist won't pretend to be someone they aren't, but if the goal is a more vegan world, then it seems obviously that expanding the methods with which one is comfortable is a good thing, as well as improving the ability to discern which methods may be the most likely to find success with an individual person. It's not really a case of the ultimate value me being "true to myself." If I can successfully learn other methods of persuasion and when to apply them, I'll be more successful in meeting my ultimate goal.

NorthCascades

janejellyroll wrote: »

MarttaHP wrote: »

sakurablossoms82 wrote: »

I'm vegetarian and for me that's good enough. If I want to become vegan I also can't buy leather shoes while it's best to buy leather shoes for my foot issues. And due an other health condition I tend to be feeling cold a lot during winter and wool keeps me warm better. I became a vegetarian due health benefits and all else is a plus.

Also I noticed that being vegan used to be a trend among YouTubers. It annoyed me because they kept promoting it and such but then in the next vlog you saw them buying a Gucci leather bag or the latest sneakers which are made out of leather.

I don't see a reason why someone couldn't cut animal products from their diet while simultaneously using leather and wool. If that doesn't make you "vegan" in the strictest definition of the term, so be it. At least you will be making less of an environmental/animal wellfare impact through your food choices.

(I'm "only" a vegetarian myself, so I'm not trying to be preachy here.)

The very definition of veganism is to avoid animal exploitation to the extent that it is possible and practicable. So if a vegan has a medical condition that requires the use of an animal product, by definition, they can take care of it. If a good faith effort has been made to determine that other products just won't meet the need, then using leather and wool (to the extent necessary to meet the need) would be consistent with vegan ethics.

I'll also add that there are vegans who consider thrifted leather and wool products to be consistent with vegan ethics, especially if it prevents someone from buying a new product. Obviously thrifted leather shoes would be a bad idea for someone with a food condition (since leather typically fits to a specific foot), but thrifted wool items are a potential option for someone who needs the items to keep warm but is concerned about the wellbeing of sheep. If I required wool, it's the option that I would choose.

I'd love to hear your thoughts on RDS down, specifically in light of the fact that the lions share of microplastic contamination seems to come from washing polar fleece and other synthetic insulation. I guess in light of everything that goes into making synthetic insulation too.

For context I'm a vegetarian and a conservationist. You seem to like talking about veganism and you're well spoken, so I'm curious what you think about this.

janejellyroll

NorthCascades wrote: »

janejellyroll wrote: »

MarttaHP wrote: »

sakurablossoms82 wrote: »

I'm vegetarian and for me that's good enough. If I want to become vegan I also can't buy leather shoes while it's best to buy leather shoes for my foot issues. And due an other health condition I tend to be feeling cold a lot during winter and wool keeps me warm better. I became a vegetarian due health benefits and all else is a plus.

Also I noticed that being vegan used to be a trend among YouTubers. It annoyed me because they kept promoting it and such but then in the next vlog you saw them buying a Gucci leather bag or the latest sneakers which are made out of leather.

I don't see a reason why someone couldn't cut animal products from their diet while simultaneously using leather and wool. If that doesn't make you "vegan" in the strictest definition of the term, so be it. At least you will be making less of an environmental/animal wellfare impact through your food choices.

(I'm "only" a vegetarian myself, so I'm not trying to be preachy here.)

The very definition of veganism is to avoid animal exploitation to the extent that it is possible and practicable. So if a vegan has a medical condition that requires the use of an animal product, by definition, they can take care of it. If a good faith effort has been made to determine that other products just won't meet the need, then using leather and wool (to the extent necessary to meet the need) would be consistent with vegan ethics.

I'll also add that there are vegans who consider thrifted leather and wool products to be consistent with vegan ethics, especially if it prevents someone from buying a new product. Obviously thrifted leather shoes would be a bad idea for someone with a food condition (since leather typically fits to a specific foot), but thrifted wool items are a potential option for someone who needs the items to keep warm but is concerned about the wellbeing of sheep. If I required wool, it's the option that I would choose.

I'd love to hear your thoughts on RDS down, specifically in light of the fact that the lions share of microplastic contamination seems to come from washing polar fleece and other synthetic insulation. I guess in light of everything that goes into making synthetic insulation too.

For context I'm a vegetarian and a conservationist. You seem to like talking about veganism and you're well spoken, so I'm curious what you think about this.

This is a really good question and I am not familiar enough with the standards of RDS down to know exactly what is involved. The issues you bring up are why I try to limit my purchasing and washing of synthetic items. My impact here is still a net negative. Our use of plastics -- including my use of plastics -- is truly a blight. I wish I had a pithy answer, all I can say is that if someone told me they were using RDS after thoughtful contemplation of the options and feeling like it was the best overall decision for birds as a species despite the impact on birds as individuals, I can understand what went into that decision and don't consider it to be at all in the same realm as the decision to eat a steak. Conservation issues are an area where I can understand the objection to certain vegan options (I don't like some of these vegan options myself for the same reason). They're making really good progress for sustainable substitutions for things like leather, I hope to see similar stuff for insulating fibers/features in the future.

kshama2001

VictoriaTuel wrote: »

Also, this entire internal and external argument of militant/chill (I hate this wording)/aggressive/pushy/etc vegans is imo, a deflection so people don't have to talk about the actual issue of mass animal exploitation.

Shoot the messaging so you don't have to hear the message.

The danger of aggressive messaging is that the receiver will refuse to receive the information, and therefore NO communication will occur. What's better, a little bit of information getting through, or zero?

I posted about "rabbit wool" socks on another thread and the first link I found I felt was too horrific to use so I linked one that spoke about how the rabbits are mistreated in a milder tone and without pictures. I felt that this information would be more accessible to a wider audience.

I do think children should be educated about our food supply, but if they all go home crying and have nightmares, parents will shut that down.