Running always so hard when losing weight ?
oat_bran
Posts: 370 Member
I've been going on runs 2-4 times a week for well over a year now. However, I still find it really hard and I'm barely making any progress. Sometimes (though not always) it gets easier after about half an hour of running (which makes me think that some alternative source of energy kicks in), but getting started is almost always really difficult. And there are days where I feel like I can't run at all and I just have to walk. Despite running regularly for more than a year, I feel like I have made no progress, I can't run longer or faster and sometimes it feels like it only got harder, especially in the last few months.
Outside of running I feel fine, not too weak or anything. I also do bouldering/climbing and weight training several times a week where I also experience performance difficulties due to what feels like low energy levels, but to a lesser degree. I'm a 30 y/o female, currently 126lbs and 5'2''. I'm eating around 1800-2000 calories most days (roughly 40c/30p/30f) which puts me at an average deficit of 250-300 cals daily).
I rarely run or do any other exercise fasted, I usually either have a 100-300 snack (usually complex carbs+protein+fat) right before the workout or have my workout within 2 hours after a meal. And after a workout I usually either have a small snack right away or it's time for my next meal soon after.
Does anyone experience the same difficulties? Should I eat more simple carbs before my workouts ? Or should I refuel better afterwards? One thing I noticed that sometimes when I go over my TDEE running is easier the next day, which makes me think that its due to replenished glycogen stores but how do I replenish them while not going over my calorie or carb goals ? Or should I just accept the impaired performance as an unavoidable part of weight loss and wait until I'm at maintenance to see any progress?
Outside of running I feel fine, not too weak or anything. I also do bouldering/climbing and weight training several times a week where I also experience performance difficulties due to what feels like low energy levels, but to a lesser degree. I'm a 30 y/o female, currently 126lbs and 5'2''. I'm eating around 1800-2000 calories most days (roughly 40c/30p/30f) which puts me at an average deficit of 250-300 cals daily).
I rarely run or do any other exercise fasted, I usually either have a 100-300 snack (usually complex carbs+protein+fat) right before the workout or have my workout within 2 hours after a meal. And after a workout I usually either have a small snack right away or it's time for my next meal soon after.
Does anyone experience the same difficulties? Should I eat more simple carbs before my workouts ? Or should I refuel better afterwards? One thing I noticed that sometimes when I go over my TDEE running is easier the next day, which makes me think that its due to replenished glycogen stores but how do I replenish them while not going over my calorie or carb goals ? Or should I just accept the impaired performance as an unavoidable part of weight loss and wait until I'm at maintenance to see any progress?
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Replies
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If you suspect that you may need more carbs (I probably eat about 55% of my calories from carbs to fuel my wannabe triathlete training) try eating a banana or something with simple carbs and easily digested (rather than fat & protein) before going on your next run just to see if you feel any different.
Our brains like to mess with us and sometimes simple ticks can fool them.
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I'm a runner. I'd be interested to know how far/fast you're running, what terrain and what sort of elevation. I personally don't enjoy running with much in my stomach and don't eat much carbohydrate as a rule at all, but there are so many differing opinions on this, I think the only 'right way' is what works for you.
Are you interested in running to get faster, or is it purely for weight loss? A more structured training plan would help you see improvements in speed and endurance. A basic running watch or HR monitor (Fitbit works too) would let you keep an eye on your heart rate; you would expect to see that, with training, your speed might not improve, but the effort required (i.e. HR) comes down. I would definitely look at that as a more reliable way to gauge results than perceived effort.
Hope that makes sense!
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"but getting started is almost always really difficult." There are four stages to any run. The first mile "OMG WTF am I doing out here. This hurts so much, I'm sooooo slow, I can't get this done!"
Subsequent miles through three quarters of the run: "This isn't so bad. I'm glad I got out here. I'm feeling really good."
After tree quarters of the run until you see the finish: " What have I done?"
Seeing the finish: "That was just great. I am so glad I made this effort.11 -
FWIW - I've been running for 7 years and the first couple miles of my runs are always difficult until my body warms up. For me, running became easier when I was consistently running more miles. If I'm training for a marathon, then 12 mile runs are easy. If I'm just running without a race in view, then my 6 mile runs are easy when they are part of a 35 mile week.
Since you are having issues with energy in all of your activities, not just running, there are a couple things you might want to do: 1) get some bloodwork done. When I was low in ferritin, running felt much harder. When I started supplementing my iron, I felt a lot better. Low thyroid can also make your energy low, as will things like Lyme or West Nile. 2) Experiment with various food combinations. You may need more carbs or more fat in your diet. You may need less sugar or more salt.0 -
sounds like you might also be running too fast in general1
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It could also be your form changes for any number of reasons.
Do you warmup first, perhaps a 5 min walk?
Or get up, go out front door, and start running?
It could also be your pace changes, and there is usually a pace that is more efficient form for you.
This could have to do with warmup also, in that you can speed up a little later on and it just allows going faster, feeling better.
Are you sure about that nice reasonable deficit?
Meaning - could you actually be burning more, or perhaps food logging on the safe lower side - and deficit is bigger than you think?
Your muscle carb stores will replenish when you eat your next meal and insulin goes up. Being in a deficit means you come out of insulin mode quicker than if not, getting back to the fat burning usually going on.
Now, if liver is really that depleted, it gets new carbs before muscles do, so perhaps not enough to go all around for your level of activity.
And if you just start out running fast pace, it usually takes 30-45 min for the carb:fat fuel source ratio to move more to the fat side than at the start - and the carb source usually starts from blood glucose and liver stores - not the muscle stores.
But you having just eaten and in insulin mode means blood glucose as source until it drops.
Another good reason for warmup, and perhaps just starting out slower until body is trained to do it better (and it can be). Fasted can help with that - or eating well before the run starts so insulin drops back down.0 -
"but getting started is almost always really difficult." There are four stages to any run. The first mile "OMG WTF am I doing out here. This hurts so much, I'm sooooo slow, I can't get this done!"
Subsequent miles through three quarters of the run: "This isn't so bad. I'm glad I got out here. I'm feeling really good."
After tree quarters of the run until you see the finish: " What have I done?"
Seeing the finish: "That was just great. I am so glad I made this effort.
Absolutely this ^^^^^^
The first portion is the most difficult. Several years ago there was a cushioned running shoe commercial with the tag line "makes the first mile feel as easy as the 4th" or something like that.0 -
Another option...
Could you be burned out?2 -
Funny thing happens to me... When I run 'just to run' I sometimes feel like crap for a mile or 2. But when I run with a plan I almost always feel good from the start. Not sure why that is but it seems to be true for me.3
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The good news, it’s easier with weight lost. I can identify with your comment.
One thing that may be helpful is to elevate your HR before starting your run. Helps me a lot.1 -
Claire5520 wrote: »I'm a runner. I'd be interested to know how far/fast you're running, what terrain and what sort of elevation. I personally don't enjoy running with much in my stomach and don't eat much carbohydrate as a rule at all, but there are so many differing opinions on this, I think the only 'right way' is what works for you.
Are you interested in running to get faster, or is it purely for weight loss? A more structured training plan would help you see improvements in speed and endurance. A basic running watch or HR monitor (Fitbit works too) would let you keep an eye on your heart rate; you would expect to see that, with training, your speed might not improve, but the effort required (i.e. HR) comes down. I would definitely look at that as a more reliable way to gauge results than perceived effort.
Hope that makes sense!It could also be your form changes for any number of reasons.
Do you warmup first, perhaps a 5 min walk?
Or get up, go out front door, and start running?
It could also be your pace changes, and there is usually a pace that is more efficient form for you.
This could have to do with warmup also, in that you can speed up a little later on and it just allows going faster, feeling better.
Your muscle carb stores will replenish when you eat your next meal and insulin goes up. Being in a deficit means you come out of insulin mode quicker than if not, getting back to the fat burning usually going on.
Now, if liver is really that depleted, it gets new carbs before muscles do, so perhaps not enough to go all around for your level of activity.
And if you just start out running fast pace, it usually takes 30-45 min for the carb:fat fuel source ratio to move more to the fat side than at the start - and the carb source usually starts from blood glucose and liver stores - not the muscle stores.
But you having just eaten and in insulin mode means blood glucose as source until it drops.
Another good reason for warmup, and perhaps just starting out slower until body is trained to do it better (and it can be). Fasted can help with that - or eating well before the run starts so insulin drops back down.
For my outside/longer runs, I go to run along the channel in my city (which is mostly flat asphalted surface). I've been using different running aps on and off for a few years which guide my workouts. There's always a 5min warm up (though I usually warm up for longer by walking briskly for 10 min or so), then they alternate several minutes of actual running, short sprints and a few minutes of brisk walking, gradually increasing the running time and decreasing the walking time. I've been using the same app for over a year and I've been stuck on the same level for months now. I find it really hard to move past it. I can't run non-stop for more than 3-4 minutes most of the time. Again, sometimes after 30 mins or so it gets easier and I may make to an occasional 4-5min streak, but not always.
Since I'm alternating running and walking I'm not sure how fast or far I can say that I'm running. When I run I don't run fast, just barely over the minimal speed of what could constitute as "running" (aside from the short 15 sec sprints but I can't even always increase my speed by much on them to be honest). According to the app my average pace is 11min/mile. One thing to note though, these guided workouts are short (35min) and I usually try to continue for another 30-40 mins afterwards, even if it's mostly brisk walking. So the app says I go for 3 miles, but I'd say it makes a total of closer to 5 miles of alternating running and walking.
2-3 times a week I do short runs on a treadmill to warm up for weight lifting. I alternate runs with 8-9km/hr (i think my treadmill shows speed rather than pace, but I'm not sure) with a 1,5incline and brisk 5,5km/hr wallking with 2,5 incline for about 25-30min.
Now, to reply to Claire's question about what my reason for running are, I'm doing it because it's an accessible form of exercise (can do it even when I have no gym access) and it's an easy way to burn a lot of calories. Being a short female, I prefer to move more to be able to eat more. Despite it being hard most of the time, I still enjoying a lot (endorphines are nice plus moving after a whole day of sitting in class/library/work feels good). I would also like to improve my general endurance (for climbing especially) and my cardio vascular health. Interestingly, I do have a Fitbit with a heart rate monitor and according to it, my cardio fitness improved significantly. My resting heart rate went from about 60 to 42-43 over the last year. And it says that my cardio fitness score is "excellant for women my age" though I'm not sure how much I trust their score system. during my runs my hr is around 120-140 during the moderate running streaks and it raises to around 155 or so during sprints.
That being said, even though I don't have any concrete pace or distance related running goals, I would still like to be able to run for longer at a time. 3-4mins seems like so short? I have a friend who doesn't even go on regular runs, but still manages to take part in half-marathon every year and not do so bad...Are you sure about that nice reasonable deficit?
Meaning - could you actually be burning more, or perhaps food logging on the safe lower side - and deficit is bigger than you think?
No, I don't think so. I use my fitbit's TDEE estimates to calculate my deficit everyday and I'm weighing everything and logging thing meticulously. I've been using a spreadsheet to track my intake, fitbit's TDEEE estimates and my weight changes and it's result have been spot on, so I know my firtbit's pretty accurate.0 -
"but getting started is almost always really difficult." There are four stages to any run. The first mile "OMG WTF am I doing out here. This hurts so much, I'm sooooo slow, I can't get this done!"
Subsequent miles through three quarters of the run: "This isn't so bad. I'm glad I got out here. I'm feeling really good."
After tree quarters of the run until you see the finish: " What have I done?"
Seeing the finish: "That was just great. I am so glad I made this effort.spiriteagle99 wrote: »FWIW - I've been running for 7 years and the first couple miles of my runs are always difficult until my body warms up. For me, running became easier when I was consistently running more miles. If I'm training for a marathon, then 12 mile runs are easy. If I'm just running without a race in view, then my 6 mile runs are easy when they are part of a 35 mile week.
It does make sense that running is harder before I'm properly warmed up. And interestingly Iit usually does start to get easier around the end of my guided workout, which is supposed to be just below the 4th mile mark, so again, maybe I just need to push myself despite how hard it seems and run for longer and see if it gets easier.spiriteagle99 wrote: »Since you are having issues with energy in all of your activities, not just running, there are a couple things you might want to do: 1) get some bloodwork done. When I was low in ferritin, running felt much harder. When I started supplementing my iron, I felt a lot better. Low thyroid can also make your energy low, as will things like Lyme or West Nile. 2) Experiment with various food combinations. You may need more carbs or more fat in your diet. You may need less sugar or more salt.
Thanks for the advice. I've done my bloodwork a couple of month ago and it was normal. However, some things don't show up as easily...0 -
Another option...
Could you be burned out?
Do you mean to say I exercise too much? I really don't have that impression. I am active, yes, and usually have some form of exercise every day, but most of my workouts are low to moderate intensity. And while I'm not beaming with energy throughout my day, I don't feel exhausted.0 -
Two ideas here: one is to change apps to something like Couch to 5K, which has progressive weekly goals to lengthen the time you can run. The other would be to run even more slowly—you can run much more slowly than 11-minute miles, and more running slowly helps your endurance0
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If you are averaging 11 minute miles, including walks, then your running pace is actually quite fast. You think you are running slow, but you really aren't. So try running much slower. Think jog, not run. To make it easier to control the pace, get on the TM. After a walking warmup, try jogging at 12 minute miles aka 5 mph (8 kph). After 3 minutes or .25, add .1 and jog another 1/4 mile. Keep increasing every .25 or .5 until it feels like you can't run more, then back it off. If you can't maintain a 12 minute mile for .25, go to 4.5 mph and start there.1
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You could also try switching up your macros. Maybe higher carb and lower fat. I try to only eat 15% fat because that's when I feel best.0
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For my outside/longer runs, I go to run along the channel in my city (which is mostly flat asphalted surface). I've been using different running aps on and off for a few years which guide my workouts. There's always a 5min warm up (though I usually warm up for longer by walking briskly for 10 min or so), then they alternate several minutes of actual running, short sprints and a few minutes of brisk walking, gradually increasing the running time and decreasing the walking time. I've been using the same app for over a year and I've been stuck on the same level for months now. I find it really hard to move past it. I can't run non-stop for more than 3-4 minutes most of the time. Again, sometimes after 30 mins or so it gets easier and I may make to an occasional 4-5min streak, but not always.
Since I'm alternating running and walking I'm not sure how fast or far I can say that I'm running. When I run I don't run fast, just barely over the minimal speed of what could constitute as "running" (aside from the short 15 sec sprints but I can't even always increase my speed by much on them to be honest). According to the app my average pace is 11min/mile. One thing to note though, these guided workouts are short (35min) and I usually try to continue for another 30-40 mins afterwards, even if it's mostly brisk walking. So the app says I go for 3 miles, but I'd say it makes a total of closer to 5 miles of alternating running and walking.
That is a just fine training method, I started interval run/walk years ago coming out of winter which was other types of workouts.
It allows me to make the running part "feel" comfortable, which I've tested on treadmill is better form and easier on effort, though a faster pace than I could sustain right then aerobically.
So the aerobic part catches up, and running portion just becomes longer at the same pace.
Here in later years, I just appreciate the training of run/walk to save the joints frankly, and during races I'll just run. Got the pace down already.
You could indeed slow down enough you could run constantly - but it may not feel comfortable.
Some people when they slow down start making their turnover slower and more leaping style - which is usually no good.
Try to time your footsteps for turnover rate when running comfortably, and then duplicate that when the pace slows down to do it longer.0 -
Another option...
Could you be burned out?
Do you mean to say I exercise too much? I really don't have that impression. I am active, yes, and usually have some form of exercise every day, but most of my workouts are low to moderate intensity. And while I'm not beaming with energy throughout my day, I don't feel exhausted.
I think he's talking more on the lines of just being burned out on running in general. I'm a cycling enthusiast and for a couple of years I was really gung ho with training for this and that event. In 2018, suddenly cycling became somewhat of a chore...my rides suffered...I often felt like I lost my legs and just couldn't go...I wasn't enjoying myself, etc and always felt like I was forcing the issue.
I was just a bit burned out was all. I took a step back and decided not to train for any particular events for all of 2018 and to mix it up and do some other things instead of cycling 5 days per week. I also started embracing shorter rides instead of having the mindset that I needed to cycle a minimum of X miles to be doing good. I mixed in some swimming, rock climbing, hiking, etc. I felt a lot better and I got my legs back on the bike and started enjoying it again.
At this point, I'm really only riding a couple days per week...usually on the weekend and really loving those rides. I lift on Monday, Wed, Thurs and do a 10-15 minutes of arch trainer before and after. I lap swim usually on Tuesdays and Fridays and just leave my weekends open to some really nice road or trail riding. I'm really enjoying myself on the bike again.2 -
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Two ideas here: one is to change apps to something like Couch to 5K, which has progressive weekly goals to lengthen the time you can run. The other would be to run even more slowly—you can run much more slowly than 11-minute miles, and more running slowly helps your endurancespiriteagle99 wrote: »If you are averaging 11 minute miles, including walks, then your running pace is actually quite fast. You think you are running slow, but you really aren't. So try running much slower. Think jog, not run. To make it easier to control the pace, get on the TM. After a walking warmup, try jogging at 12 minute miles aka 5 mph (8 kph). After 3 minutes or .25, add .1 and jog another 1/4 mile. Keep increasing every .25 or .5 until it feels like you can't run more, then back it off. If you can't maintain a 12 minute mile for .25, go to 4.5 mph and start there.
These are some great tips! I guess I really didn't think much about how fast I'm running and how it affects my energy levels. I'll try to control my pace more and do that thing with a TM. Thanks !0 -
You could indeed slow down enough you could run constantly - but it may not feel comfortable.
Some people when they slow down start making their turnover slower and more leaping style - which is usually no good.
Try to time your footsteps for turnover rate when running comfortably, and then duplicate that when the pace slows down to do it longer.
Despite regularly running for years now, I actually had no idea about what turnover is and how important it is, can you imagine? I just looked it up and I know now what I'll be working on improving next time I go for a run!
And thanks for the tip, I'll try to work on my pace!0 -
Performance and calorie deficits are not things that go together at the same time. I say this because you shouldn't really expect to gain too much fitness if you are constantly training in a deficit. Unless you are just starting out and then you most likely can do both for a while. You would generally concentrate on one over the other. There could be numerous reasons why this is happening to you. How long have you been in a calorie deficit for? You may be encountering a metabolic slowdown. How certain are you that your calorie deficit is the amounts you believe it to be and not more? Are you eating enough protein? You could be breaking down lbm. What is your weekly mileage? You may have increased your mileage too quickly. What is your heart rate during these runs? You could be running too fast and you just aren't recovering. Just so many things.0
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