Should my focus be on fat loss 1st before trying to build muscle?

alung2k3

I'm a 31 year old Male, 6"4 and currently weigh 18st 12lb. Been steadily losing weight over the past 3 months & recently joined the gym to push on. I go to the gym 4 times a week.

I feel like I'm at a cross roads. Should I be doing cardio to keep those calories down and keep losing steadily or move into the weights side to start building muscle?

I've been told weights is great as muscle has a better burn rate than fat, so the more muscle, naturally the more cals you will burn day to day.

I'm actually doing abit of both right now but just not sure where my focus should be at. 70% cardio/ 30% weights?

Thanks

fitom80

Shortly, strength training is must and cardio is may. Focus on building or at least maintaing your muscle mass. You burn cal during the str. training and also afterwards. By having reasonable kcal deficit(200 300 kcal) ... it will work but you have to be patient. Dont focus too much on measurring your progress by weight loss. Including some cardio is good for your overall condition, endurance, hearth health nd performance but dont use it as a primary source of cal deficit.

sijomial

Are you sure you want to use exercise to create or increase your calorie deficit?
That seems a short term view to me (it's also contrary to how this site and your calorie goal is determined).

Yes muscle burns more calories than fat but although true that's similar to slapping a huge sign on an item in a Supermarket saying "REDUCED!" without explaining if that's reduced by a penny or a pound.....
About 6cals per pound per day at rest for muscle and about 2cals for fat. Not a big deal and not a valid weight loss technique. Plus it's hard and limited to add muscle while training in a deficit, the bigger the deficit the less likely it becomes.

BTW - strength training itself is a surprisingly low calorie burn so if using exercise for weight loss be aware dropping a potentially high calorie burn activity (cardio) for a low burn activity may not result in the outcome you expect. Yes do strength/resistance training but do it for the right reasons.

A combination of cardio and strength training I would consider optimal for health and fitness but the blend is personal and IMHO should depend on your fitness, sporting and enjoyment preferences - not weight loss.
Contrary to exercising for weight loss those goals remain great motivators to continue exercising after you reach target weight too.

alung2k3

I find it tricky because in an ideal world I'd like to lose fat and gain muscle.

I always stay in my defecit of cals per day and eat back half of exercised. Based on the above it sounds like roughly 80% Str and 20% Cardio could work well.

My limited knowledge though - I thought you need to up cals to help with gains? Or is it possible to just remain in the defecit, eats lots of protein and still gain?

fitom80

Percents are confusing.. 4-6 str. training days plus propper diet to maximise anabolism and additional cardio (ideally during rest days or in worst case after str. training) you like the most. (even brisk walking does the job)

sijomial

alung2k3 wrote: »

I find it tricky because in an ideal world I'd like to lose fat and gain muscle.

I always stay in my defecit of cals per day and eat back half of exercised. Based on the above it sounds like roughly 80% Str and 20% Cardio could work well.

My limited knowledge though - I thought you need to up cals to help with gains? Or is it possible to just remain in the defecit, eats lots of protein and still gain?

You don't NEED a calorie surplus to add muscle but it can be helpful for sure. An advanced and/or lean trainee would struggle to gain muscle in a deficit and very likely make sub-optimal gains at maintenance. But that's specific to them and not others who may be beginners and/or overweight.
An excessive deficit will be very counter-productive though.
It's a spectrum not a series of modes.

There's nothing wrong with setting ambitious goals especially if it makes you do the right things (you missed training hard and effectively from your list - that's what initiates the process). Even if you simply just succeed in doing the best you can personally achieve then that's a result.

alung2k3

I'm set to lose 2lb a week currently. At my heaviest I was 21st 5lb. Do you think I should stay at 2lb or drop it down?

sijomial

alung2k3 wrote: »

I'm set to lose 2lb a week currently. At my heaviest I was 21st 5lb. Do you think I should stay at 2lb or drop it down?

You should slow your rate of loss at some point but it's a compromise between losing fat at a quicker rate and potentially being in a large deficit making adherence harder and maybe compromising your training and recovery.

At your size (264lbs for our American cousins) 2lb / week doesn't sound at all excessive to me right now if you are finding it sustainable.

alung2k3

Based on what I've said above can you reccommend a protein goal? I've been reading different articles but they all differ so much.

I'm happy to maintain muscle for now if need be just until the fat goes away

sijomial

alung2k3 wrote: »

Based on what I've said above can you reccommend a protein goal? I've been reading different articles but they all differ so much.

I'm happy to maintain muscle for now if need be just until the fat goes away

My preference is to base it on estimated lean mass (a very rough estimate is fine) and set it as a minimum goal in grams rather than percentages.
1g per pound of estimated lean body mass I would think would work perfectly well although you could go higher as long as it doesn't crowd out other nutrients or make your diet hard or unpleasant to adhere to.

alung2k3

Okay I looked up a formula to work out my estimated mass and I need 192g per day of protein.

I'm actually finding it hard to get anywhere near this. So provided I hit this each day and work out while staying at my defecit, in theory its a plan?

Theoldguy1

alung2k3 wrote: »

I find it tricky because in an ideal world I'd like to lose fat and gain muscle.

I always stay in my defecit of cals per day and eat back half of exercised. Based on the above it sounds like roughly 80% Str and 20% Cardio could work well.

My limited knowledge though - I thought you need to up cals to help with gains? Or is it possible to just remain in the defecit, eats lots of protein and still gain?

To gain muscle you have to have fuel for your body. If someone is overfat, the body can and does use the excess fat as fuel if they are eating in a calorie deficient. This is the reason "bulking" when weight training is generally not recommended if the trainee is over 15% bodyfat for a male (around 20% for a female), the person already has fuel.

If someone has low bodyfat, yes they may need to up their calories gain muscle.

Phirrgus

alung2k3 wrote: »

Okay I looked up a formula to work out my estimated mass and I need 192g per day of protein.

I'm actually finding it hard to get anywhere near this. So provided I hit this each day and work out while staying at my defecit, in theory its a plan?

The most common I've seen is .8g per lb of lean body mass. I average maybe 80-100g per day at 5'9" 180lbs eating about 2k calories a day.

ninerbuff

sijomial wrote: »

Are you sure you want to use exercise to create or increase your calorie deficit?
That seems a short term view to me (it's also contrary to how this site and your calorie goal is determined).

Yes muscle burns more calories than fat but although true that's similar to slapping a huge sign on an item in a Supermarket saying "REDUCED!" without explaining if that's reduced by a penny or a pound.....
About 6cals per pound per day at rest for muscle and about 2cals for fat. Not a big deal and not a valid weight loss technique. Plus it's hard and limited to add muscle while training in a deficit, the bigger the deficit the less likely it becomes.

BTW - strength training itself is a surprisingly low calorie burn so if using exercise for weight loss be aware dropping a potentially high calorie burn activity (cardio) for a low burn activity may not result in the outcome you expect. Yes do strength/resistance training but do it for the right reasons.

A combination of cardio and strength training I would consider optimal for health and fitness but the blend is personal and IMHO should depend on your fitness, sporting and enjoyment preferences - not weight loss.
Contrary to exercising for weight loss those goals remain great motivators to continue exercising after you reach target weight too.

THIS.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

ninerbuff

Theoldguy1 wrote: »

alung2k3 wrote: »

I find it tricky because in an ideal world I'd like to lose fat and gain muscle.

I always stay in my defecit of cals per day and eat back half of exercised. Based on the above it sounds like roughly 80% Str and 20% Cardio could work well.

My limited knowledge though - I thought you need to up cals to help with gains? Or is it possible to just remain in the defecit, eats lots of protein and still gain?

To gain muscle you have to have fuel for your body. If someone is overfat, the body can and does use the excess fat as fuel if they are eating in a calorie deficient. This is the reason "bulking" when weight training is generally not recommended if the trainee is over 15% bodyfat for a male (around 20% for a female), the person already has fuel.

If someone has low bodyfat, yes they may need to up their calories gain muscle.

Actually one can "bulk" over those percentages just fine. It's the AMOUNT of calories consumed and watching macronutrients that one has to watch in surplus as to not gain too much fat when bulking.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

alung2k3

Right-o so my new plan.

- Continue with my calorific deficit (fat should be my fuel due to me being a fatty boom boom)
- Focus on the macro's particularly the Protein level.
- Do gym work 4 times a week, mostly weights with a little cardio.
- If I do all the above, in theory the fat should reduce and muscle will build (with a good schedule)