Introducing kittens to an old (and sometimes aggressive) dog.

maureenseel1984

So my husband and I are rescuing two kittens (they come home this weekend). One of our dogs is OBSESSED with cats-she loves them. She cries by the back door and waits for our neighborhood cats to come "visit" us. The other dog...well...long story. He is a rescue and was badly treated by his first owner. He lived in a house that had a cat-and went after it, actually biting it's tail Bad situation.
He is old now-maybe 13 years old. He's mostly deaf, partly blind....and has arthritis. He still has some get-up-and-go and plays with our younger dog occasionally. He's been around kittens before and has never tried anything but...I'm still a bit anxious about introducing him to the kittens.

We have a room set up for the new arrivals and they will have space and time to themselves. I'm getting a baby gate and did all my research about slowly and carefully introducing the cats to our pups...but any other advice from folks out there who have dogs that get along with cats? Or...aggressive dogs that you've introduced to cats?
Booker's not a bad dog...he's a sweetheart, but very iffy around other animals. He can get used to being around new dogs-especially when they're brought INTO our home...so I have high hopes but...any advice is much appreciated.

LyndaBSS

I've been in animal rescue for over 30 years.

If I were you, I would have respected the older dog and waited until his passing to bring home kittens.

Dianetheinvincible

I would be concerned about the kittens' safety. They can be so frisky and mischievous and not understand the need for caution around your dog; meanwhile an older dog with compromised vision or hearing can react aggressively if startled. Short of putting off the kitten adoption, I'd suggest being religious about keeping them separated except when you are right there--RIGHT there, monitoring, not just home or nearby.

I will add that my dog has lived with my cat since he was a puppy, and they got along fine for the first 8 or 9 years; then my dog started lunging aggressively at the cat sometimes when the cat walks by. I was afraid to leave them home alone for a long time, as he's a very large dog and would seriously hurt or kill the cat if he actually bit him. He is now 12 and still does that sometimes. At other times he licks the cat all over his head like they're pals. My dog is famous for getting along with every other animal he meets (I am a dog walker and he even makes friends out of dog-aggressive dogs.)

With a dog who has already shown some grumpiness and aggression, I would just urge extreme caution.

GymGoddessGoals

Yeah, I'm not sure why anyone would bring kittens home with an aggressive dog in the house. And I question any agency that would allow you to foster any animal with an aggressive dog in the home. This sounds irresponsible. Maybe you neglected to disclose that information? In any case, this does not sound like a good idea at all.

deputy_randolph

I volunteer at a cat rescue and many cats have been returned b/c current animals become aggressive with new animals (previously non-aggressive animals can even act out with new arrivals).

It isn't a great idea to introduce new animals (especially smaller animals) if a dog has had a history of aggression. That being said...if you do follow through with the kitten adoption, don't leave the kittens unattended.

It's going to be a difficult situation to manage. I have 3 cats. 1 cat cannot be left alone with the other 2 (he pees all over the house out of fear if he is alone with the other cats; they had 1 spat when he arrived and still experiences a strong stress response if he passes by other cats). I have to manage which cats are allowed in which part of the house...all day long.

I like the cat, but I shouldn't have brought him home (the other cats didn't show signs of aggression before and are extremely people friendly). I couldn't really anticipate the structure I had to implement. The cats live in peace now, but it takes a lot of work.

LyndaBSS

Please reconsider. Cherish the pets you have while you can.

maureenseel1984

Our two dogs love each other. He's not aggressive with all animals and that particular event happened a long time ago. When animals come into the house he's fine.
The dogs are crated during the day (for other reasons) while we're at work. So the cats will be free during the day.

I DID inform the foster about our two dogs...and Booker (our old dog) can get along with other animals just fine once properly introduced. I should also add he's not decrepit or on his last legs-health wise he's in amazing shape for a boxer or any dog his age. We got our other dog as a puppy and the two love each other now.

I understand the concern...but also want people to know I went into this with my eyes open and with preparations in place. We're going to be introducing them slowly and if IF there are problems, I volunteer with SPCA and will seek advice from the trainers and behavioral specialists there...but...

Good to know where you're all at.

maureenseel1984

Dianetheinvincible wrote: »

I would be concerned about the kittens' safety. They can be so frisky and mischievous and not understand the need for caution around your dog; meanwhile an older dog with compromised vision or hearing can react aggressively if startled. Short of putting off the kitten adoption, I'd suggest being religious about keeping them separated except when you are right there--RIGHT there, monitoring, not just home or nearby.

I will add that my dog has lived with my cat since he was a puppy, and they got along fine for the first 8 or 9 years; then my dog started lunging aggressively at the cat sometimes when the cat walks by. I was afraid to leave them home alone for a long time, as he's a very large dog and would seriously hurt or kill the cat if he actually bit him. He is now 12 and still does that sometimes. At other times he licks the cat all over his head like they're pals. My dog is famous for getting along with every other animal he meets (I am a dog walker and he even makes friends out of dog-aggressive dogs.)

With a dog who has already shown some grumpiness and aggression, I would just urge extreme caution.

Thanks for at least being somewhat open minded.

It's not like this dog is ready to attack anything that comes near to him...and he's not so old and senile that he can't handle any animals being around him-he and my other dog still play and tumble and cuddle. He also gets along fine with dogs when the come into the house once they're introduced. I feel like he's no only coming off in a negative light here but so am I which...is unfortunate.

Cahgetsfit

I have a story to share. Bear with me. It involves aggressive dog and lots of cats.

When I was living in Brazil, I met a guy who had a pit bull and actually used to get his dog to fight. Dog also had history of chasing cats and killing them. Chasing anything really - like cows and whatever, if he was not leashed, but he was obedient and would "come" and "stay" and stuff.

Dog's dad and I started dating. Once I found out about dog being in fights, I told dog's dad that it was either dog stops fighting or we break up. I won.

Guy brings me home a kitten. Dog, when visiting my house, would be on leash and told "no" and all that. Eyes kept on dog and kitten at all time. Dog would watch kitten with those "i want to eat you" eyes. Kitten would climb up on the rafters and stare at dog below.

Anyhoo, so me, crazy cat lady extraordinaire, got kitten ANOTHER I picked up off the street looking all mangled and scruffy and homeless and brought him home.

Dog arrived and dog + dog's dad weren't aware of new kitten and as soon as dog saw kitten he charged and picked kitten up in his big massive mouth. Before he could chomp down on kitten, crazy cat lady me launched myself at dog and kitten and pulled kitten all drooly out of dog's mouth (while at the same time dog's dad telling dog to stop and all that command stuff). We saved kitten.

Kitten and dog became BEST FRIENDS.

I'm serious.

After that nerve-wracking incident where we thought OMG kitten is dead and gone, we tied dog up again and so on but kitten would keep wanting to go to dog and dog started to melt towards kitten and they ended up being best buddies - kitten would sleep in between dog's front paws, would headbutt dog, would come out for walks with dog, they would both lie in the sun together out in the yard... all of that.

I eventually ended up with 12 rescue cats and dog, though he only loved this particular cat, tolerated all of the other cats and never once tried anything with them. We were able to comfortably leave all the animals together and go out with no fear of any crime against kittehs.

So - on a positive note - it CAN happen that your dog will be fine with the kitty. I hope so.

LyndaBSS

My rescue work has centered on abused and neglected dogs. Your dog is not coming across in a negative light at all. I'm coming from a place of protecting him. Given his background, I want to prevent unnecessary stressors.

Just because we obviously didn't give you the response you were looking for is not a reason to believe us close minded.

I sincerely hope it all works out.

maureenseel1984

So - on a positive note - it CAN happen that your dog will be fine with the kitty. I hope so.

I hope so too.

I mean...Booker was in a bad situation when he was a pup-tied up and left for dead-no water, no food, no friends, no nothing.
His last owner loved him dearly, but there were three couples living in the same house-one of which had a cat. They left Booker loose and-as dogs do-he chased the cat down and caught it...injured-but did not kill said cat. In his care, the dog was also not socialized with other animals at all. She loved him, but I think she was too afraid he'd try something again (understandable). When we took Booker in he was maybe 5 years old. Since that time, he's been socialized with several other dogs...bigger ones, little ones...at our house, at their houses. He's managed to become friends with several of them and actually cuddles with one silly-looking hairless dog named "Roscoe". He has been around cats without barking or lunging, but very much still has that prey drive-our younger dog Zuzu also has that same behavior around cats...pulling, whimpering. But we've also had renters in our previous homes that had cats. He was inquisitive, but never lunged at them...but still-it's that prey drive that-unbroken staring that makes me a little nervous. However, I also understand dogs can be trained to break these habits. Our younger dog also seems fascinated with cats. We had a stray around our neighborhood that would sit either on our back fence or our front stoop and meow until she came to see him....they'd nuzzle-she'd drool. And now there's a new stray on the block that pops in from time to time. She sits by the back door, staring at the fence and whimpering.

Booker isn't a bad dog. He just wasn't ever socialized-something we've worked very hard on fixing...he's still iffy around other dogs at times-normally on walks...then he has times he's totally fine. He's not the kind of dog you see and expect "any day now" he's gone...he may very well have several more years left in him. I really do think that with patience and training he will be fine...especially since young animals seem to be far less of an issue with him.

As far as kittens being frisky and playing with him-trust me...he gets it from our other boxer PLENTY. She boxes him in the face regularly.

maureenseel1984

LyndaBSS wrote: »

My rescue work has centered on abused and neglected dogs. Your dog is not coming across in a negative light at all. I'm coming from a place of protecting him. Given his background, I want to prevent unnecessary stressors.

Just because we obviously didn't give you the response you were looking for is not a reason to believe us close minded.

I sincerely hope it all works out.

I understand this very much.

And trust me I'm doing my research and taking necessary precautions. Another poster had insinuated I LIED to the foster and the rescue agency.

It was part of the adoption paperwork. I told them we had two dogs and that one of them was not predictable around other animals. They asked (in the very lengthy application) how we'd address it if our dogs didn't get along with the cats...I explained the cats have their own room. We'd be patient and work on training and seek advice and help as much as needed.

I just don't appreciate people calling me basically careless or untruthful. 1.) Don't know me well enough to say that. 2.) Don't know anything about the situation.

rheddmobile

Just wanted to wish you luck. As someone above said, no allowing them to be together unless you are RIGHT THERE - within arm’s reach. Things can go south extremely fast. If anything bad does happen, you will be lucky to be able to stop it even if you are right there, so you need to work on preventing it getting to that point.

Hopefully Booker will decide he loves his new kittens, weirder things have happened. Please return and update, I’ll be thinking about you.

maureenseel1984

rheddmobile wrote: »

Just wanted to wish you luck. As someone above said, no allowing them to be together unless you are RIGHT THERE - within arm’s reach. Things can go south extremely fast. If anything bad does happen, you will be lucky to be able to stop it even if you are right there, so you need to work on preventing it getting to that point.

Hopefully Booker will decide he loves his new kittens, weirder things have happened. Please return and update, I’ll be thinking about you.

Thanks for the encouragement.
Yeah I mean...we have a pretty solid plan in place to keep them safe...they won't even see the dogs for the first few days-scent swapping...baby gate to start...dogs on leashes...until everyone feels comfortable. Even then, the dogs aren't left alone with the cats.

Dianetheinvincible

OK I've just returned to see later comments and 2 things:
1) How's it going so far between the kittens and Booker?
2) Inspired by cahgetsfit's crazy Brazil pit-kitten story, I will share an interesting one, too.

Years ago, I had a big black dog named Lucky, also had the cat I still have, named Newfie. My best friend really liked Lucky and ended up getting a dog who looked similar. However, her dog, named Friday, had a history of killing things--squirrels, cats, birds--just had a super strong prey drive. He was also a "red zone dog" rehabbed by Cesar Millan before she got him. I wouldn't have taken this on, but she didn't mind.

So I moved into a new place, a little cottage with a backyard on a horse property. My friend came up to visit and see the place, and she brought Friday, who she took everywhere. I put my cat in the house and locked the cat door while I was showing her the landscaping I was doing in the backyard, and Friday was allowed off-leash in there.

Next thing I know, Friday sticks his head in some plants and comes out with my cat in his mouth. My cat had managed to get the cat door open and I guess was taking a nap hidden in the flowerbed. So two bizarre things about this situation. 1) My cat did not struggle at all, and did not seem afraid. We theorize that maybe he mistook Friday for my dog, Lucky, who had never hurt him. 2) Friday did not hurt my cat. He started to walk over to us, like Hey guys, look what I found! Meanwhile we were screaming at him to "drop it" (a command he knew) and after a few seconds he leaned his head down and set my cat on the ground. Then my cat ran up and over the fence and sat down a few yards away.

I ran over to see if he was OK, and he had a wide strip of dog slobber all the way around his body, but he seemed to be unharmed. For some reason Friday did not clamp down on him.

I lived in that cottage for 3 years, but needless to say, my friend never visited me again. We always met up somewhere or I went to her place.

maureenseel1984

OK I've just returned to see later comments and 2 things:
1) How's it going so far between the kittens and Booker?
2) Inspired by cahgetsfit's crazy Brazil pit-kitten story, I will share an interesting one, too.

I ran over to see if he was OK, and he had a wide strip of dog slobber all the way around his body, but he seemed to be unharmed. For some reason Friday did not clamp down on him.

That would scare the Bejeezus out of me.

So far things are actually going well-we're taking things VERY slow.
My dogs (neither of them) have lunged or barked so much as whined. Loudly. We started with scent swapping (blankets exchanged) and they seemed ok with that. My cats are getting curious about the dogs but won't get too close to the gate. I've picked up Nemo and carried him to the gate, keeping him in my arms. My dogs have sniffed him-gate always between them. My younger dog Zuzu got very enthusiastic and REALLY wanted a good sniff (mouth closed-just very excited). Nemo hissed and gave her a swipe at the face and now she won't get close to the gate...but is still interested.

Sometimes I go up to the kitty room and sit on the floor with my computer...watch a movie, dink around on facebook or whatever...kitties sit with me...

My biggest concern at this point is the dogs can get very fixated on the kittens. They aren't acting aggressive...just very excited. And Booker (who was my original concern) doesn't even seem as fixated as Zuzu. He does bark-but it's his whining bark...like when he wants a walk. I know him well enough to distinguish between his barks...this is pouting. I think part of it is jealousy because I'm spending lots of time with the kittens trying to socialize them. I've also tried to spend time with the pups too-walks, running with Zuzu, naps on the couch, etc.

Cahgetsfit

Glad to hear it's going ok! Hopefully they will all be friends!

And @maureenseel1984 wow! ye s my kitten also had that band of slobber around him when the dog "ate" him. I also wonder why he never clamped down!?

maureenseel1984

Cahgetsfit wrote: »

Glad to hear it's going ok! Hopefully they will all be friends!

And @maureenseel1984 wow! ye s my kitten also had that band of slobber around him when the dog "ate" him. I also wonder why he never clamped down!?

mbaker566

i foster for a dog rescue. we get dogs with all sorts of fun issues. i don't have cats. too many people in my life are allergic
the gate is a good thing. i might also take time to put the new cats in a cat carrier and put it in the area where booker can sniff. when he sniffs and walks away, give him a treat. when he sniffs and doesn't get super excited, give him a treat. and repeat till the kittens are a nonissue.

maureenseel1984

mbaker566 wrote: »

i foster for a dog rescue. we get dogs with all sorts of fun issues. i don't have cats. too many people in my life are allergic
the gate is a good thing. i might also take time to put the new cats in a cat carrier and put it in the area where booker can sniff. when he sniffs and walks away, give him a treat. when he sniffs and doesn't get super excited, give him a treat. and repeat till the kittens are a nonissue.

Yeah. Especially since the kittens are showing curiosity and wanting to leave the room, we're going to get a little more aggressive on socializing with the dogs. This is only their second week with us so they haven't even wanted to leave the room up until now-we're taking it at their pace. We will probably empty out and clean out one of our dog's crates (so it's not covered in their scent)...put some toys, water and food and the two kitties in there and let the dogs sniff around.