ACDF surgery, what was your outcome if you had one, how successful was it for you?
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icemom011
Posts: 999 Member
I was hit by a car on my bike, few months later not much improvement, doctors are saying I need an ACDF surgery to fix two herniated discs. My life approach is to avoid surgery at all costs, but they are saying it will get worse and won't get better and i shouldn't wait much longer. It's C4-5 C5-6 fusion for me, plus the plate. Anyone had it? I'm a cyclist, don't want to lose my ability ti ride and enjoy it. Other than that, i walk, and I'm pretty active. So sny experience with this? Thanks.
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None personally but my martial arts teacher did a couple years ago and he's just as terrifying now as he was then. More so actually because his back doesn't hurt anymore.
Which is to say, he's a nice guy who hits like a sledgehammer.3 -
I had ACDF surgery in 2016 for two herniated disks - the same as yours, C4-5 and C5-6. Actually, it was recommended that I also do C3-4, but was presented as an option, as in "You should probably do all 3, but if you do, you will have 15 % limited range of motion in your neck and the outcomes are only 92 % success rate (i.e. no complications). If you do 2 instead, the success rate is 98+ percent and you'll have near full range of motion." So I did 2, plus the titanium plate.
I was quite nervous about the surgery, but the admitting nurse showed me her own ACDF scar and was like, "Half the nurses here have one, because we're on our feet all day and it just happens ..." So that calmed me down.
After the surgery, I was a little hoarse for around 24 hours (but a lot less than I was warned could be the case, since they have to move your voice box to do it), and there was some discomfort for about 2-3 days. By day 4 I was pretty much back to normal - working, walking, etc. Eating was challenging only in the first 24 hrs, but after that I was back to a normal diet. On the upside, you're supposed to eat plenty of ice cream in the first few days; I was happy to comply. I pretty much ransacked the entire Haagen Dasz lineup, guilt free, as I was only doing what the doctor ordered LOL
I was told not to lift anything more than 5 pounds for a month, but later I learned that was because you're on pain pills and they don't want you to hurt yourself when you're high on the pain pills. It actually isn't due to neck fragility. That said, do exactly what they tell you to do.
In my 3 month follow up, the Dr took some x-rays and said I was doing great, and then there was a one year follow up where he declared it a complete success and a closed case file.
Overall, it was much less traumatic, painful, or uncomfortable than I expected. I have no perceived reduction in neck range of motion, zero. Nor did I the day after the surgery. If anything, I feel like I have more range of motion, because I no longer have squished nerves in my neck. I did lose 1/2 inch in height, though LOL
If they are saying you should do it soon, you should do it soon. In my case, I was told that if I didn't have the surgery within 6 weeks, I would have permanent, irreparable muscle weakness in my left arm due to nerve compression that would never decompress. At the time of that evaluation, I had nearly no strength in my arm - I couldn't push a door open, for instance, and they told me that would be forever unless I got off the dime and had the surgery. There is a time element to this which should not be ignored. After the surgery, I recovered 100 % of my muscle strength, immediately.
I can add further details if you want by PM if such a thing exists on MFP. Happy to help where I can.
Try to ignore the horror stories on the web. There are always horror stories, no matter what the medical issue is; people have horror stories about getting their teeth cleaned or their toenails cut, you just have to not let all that get to you too much. ACDF surgery while a major surgery is actually not that big a deal - it isn't fraught with uncertain outcomes like lower back surgery can be, and the success rate is extremely high for 2 fusions. Make sure you have a good doctor who's done a lot of ACDF procedures - experience counts.
Good luck.
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I had ACDF surgery in 2016 for two herniated disks - the same as yours, C4-5 and C5-6. Actually, it was recommended that I also do C3-4, but was presented as an option, as in "You should probably do all 3, but if you do, you will have 15 % limited range of motion in your neck and the outcomes are only 92 % success rate (i.e. no complications). If you do 2 instead, the success rate is 98+ percent and you'll have near full range of motion." So I did 2, plus the titanium plate.
I was quite nervous about the surgery, but the admitting nurse showed me her own ACDF scar and was like, "Half the nurses here have one, because we're on our feet all day and it just happens ..." So that calmed me down.
After the surgery, I was a little hoarse for around 24 hours (but a lot less than I was warned could be the case, since they have to move your voice box to do it), and there was some discomfort for about 2-3 days. By day 4 I was pretty much back to normal - working, walking, etc. Eating was challenging only in the first 24 hrs, but after that I was back to a normal diet. On the upside, you're supposed to eat plenty of ice cream in the first few days; I was happy to comply. I pretty much ransacked the entire Haagen Dasz lineup, guilt free, as I was only doing what the doctor ordered LOL
I was told not to lift anything more than 5 pounds for a month, but later I learned that was because you're on pain pills and they don't want you to hurt yourself when you're high on the pain pills. It actually isn't due to neck fragility. That said, do exactly what they tell you to do.
In my 3 month follow up, the Dr took some x-rays and said I was doing great, and then there was a one year follow up where he declared it a complete success and a closed case file.
Overall, it was much less traumatic, painful, or uncomfortable than I expected. I have no perceived reduction in neck range of motion, zero. Nor did I the day after the surgery. If anything, I feel like I have more range of motion, because I no longer have squished nerves in my neck. I did lose 1/2 inch in height, though LOL
If they are saying you should do it soon, you should do it soon. In my case, I was told that if I didn't have the surgery within 6 weeks, I would have permanent, irreparable muscle weakness in my left arm due to nerve compression that would never decompress. At the time of that evaluation, I had nearly no strength in my arm - I couldn't push a door open, for instance, and they told me that would be forever unless I got off the dime and had the surgery. There is a time element to this which should not be ignored. After the surgery, I recovered 100 % of my muscle strength, immediately.
I can add further details if you want by PM if such a thing exists on MFP. Happy to help where I can.
Try to ignore the horror stories on the web. There are always horror stories, no matter what the medical issue is; people have horror stories about getting their teeth cleaned or their toenails cut, you just have to not let all that get to you too much. ACDF surgery while a major surgery is actually not that big a deal - it isn't fraught with uncertain outcomes and big risks like lower back surgery can be, and the success rate is extremely high for 2 fusions. Make sure you have a good doctor who's done a lot of ACDF procedures - experience counts.
Good luck.
Thank you do much, @Igfrie, i really appreciate your input and insight. Thank you for sharing your story, I'm absolutely terrified and want to run the other way. But it's just as terrifying to wait too long and get irreversible nerve/spinal cord damage that could be prevented. The ROM part is very important to me, as i want to continue cycling and it involves keeping your head up and your body low. Dr is saying i can lose 10 degrees of the motion range looking up, and nothing side to side. His PA said that for 6 weeks I'm not supposed to lift my arms up over shoulders, not to interfere with healing. Was that same for you?0 -
Thank you do much, @Igfrie, i really appreciate your input and insight. Thank you for sharing your story, I'm absolutely terrified and want to run the other way. But it's just as terrifying to wait too long and get irreversible nerve/spinal cord damage that could be prevented.
You're welcome. Believe me, I totally get the emotions involved. I was terrified and life seemed very unfair and fragile. My wife and I analyzed and debated every possible scenario and decision factor over and over and over. A few days before the surgery, I was in a "I don't think I really need to do this" mindset, but the doctor had said I need to do it, and we knew what had to happen.
And then I did it, and it was basically a big nothing burger. It was no worse than a couple of knee and carpal tunnel surgeries I've had, and actually had a faster recovery than my meniscus (knee) surgery, with some upsides. For my overnight stay in the hospital, they gave me a morphine IV drip which I could turn on with a click-button once per 5 minutes. I wasn't in much pain, but that was a huge amount of fun. I literally kept myself awake most of the night so I could keep hitting that button every five minutes LOL Then the ice cream fest when I got home - that was fun too.
I can't guarantee your surgery would be as smooth running as mine was, that'd be silly; all I can do is share my own experience with it, and also note that my experience was very much in line with the "no big deal" message given to me by the doctor and nurses beforehand. When I compare my pre-op fear and uncertainty with what actually transpired, it was a huge gap.
Again, good luck.
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Not sure if this is relevant but worth a read?
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/15/sports/how-tiger-woods-pga-back-surgery.html?searchResultPosition=1-1 -
Did you have to wear a neck brace and do rehab for months? How long til you were back to full functioning?0
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My wife had that surgery when her C4-C5 joint developed a degenerate disk. This was possibly from a rear-end automobile collision decades earlier. She had been in intense pain for 4 years and it was pure hell. Pure. Hell. The surgeon promised 95% range of motion. Mrs. quickly agreed to anything. The day of surgery began with check-in at 5 a.m., and ended at 2 p.m. when we left with her in a neck collar. When the collar came off 2 months later, she had no noticeable reduction in her range of motion. Having been through hell, I observe in her that now she fears nothing.3
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I had my surgery at age 40, after a decade of pain from a whiplash injury (slipped in the bathtub). Over that time I developed tingling and numbness in my hands and feet as the discs continued to press on my spinal cord.
Eventually I had no choice, as doctors were worried about permanent paralysis. I believe the two vertebrae that were fused were C3 and C4. I elected to use bone from my hip for the bone graft, and don't believe they used a plate. The orthopedic surgeon in our town had a bad reputation, so I opted to go to Seattle and had an excellent neurosurgeon operate. My recovery went well with very little pain, mainly hoarseness. However, having the bone removed from my hip was quite painful and hurt for several months. All tingling and numbness was immediately gone. (Note - this was 20 years ago, so medical procedures may have changed). In terms of range of motion, I can still tilt my head up just as well, but may have lost a little side to side motion. (It would improve somewhat if I stretched those areas.) When I learned to swim at age 50 I did have trouble turning my head enough from side to side to take a breath. But this may be that fact that I am just a really poor swimmer.
I was really freaked out having them operate through the front of my neck, but it really wasn't bad. And I didn't want a scar, but he placed it where he felt my neck would eventually have a crease/wrinkle. Wish you the best.1 -
I had my surgery at age 40, after a decade of pain from a whiplash injury (slipped in the bathtub). Over that time I developed tingling and numbness in my hands and feet as the discs continued to press on my spinal cord.
Eventually I had no choice, as doctors were worried about permanent paralysis. I believe the two vertebrae that were fused were C3 and C4. I elected to use bone from my hip for the bone graft, and don't believe they used a plate. The orthopedic surgeon in our town had a bad reputation, so I opted to go to Seattle and had an excellent neurosurgeon operate. My recovery went well with very little pain, mainly hoarseness. However, having the bone removed from my hip was quite painful and hurt for several months. All tingling and numbness was immediately gone. (Note - this was 20 years ago, so medical procedures may have changed). In terms of range of motion, I can still tilt my head up just as well, but may have lost a little side to side motion. (It would improve somewhat if I stretched those areas.) When I learned to swim at age 50 I did have trouble turning my head enough from side to side to take a breath. But this may be that fact that I am just a really poor swimmer.
I was really freaked out having them operate through the front of my neck, but it really wasn't bad. And I didn't want a scar, but he placed it where he felt my neck would eventually have a crease/wrinkle. Wish you the best.
Thanks for the reply, i talked to two surgeons and one said he'll be using cadaver bone graft and another plans to use shavings from my neck to infuse the graft with. From what I've researched, my own bone has a better chance to fuse, and also I've read that people who had hip bone used have more problems with that surgery than their neck post-op.
So glad you are doing well and it turned out good for you, and you are able to swim and live your life pain free without tingling and weakness and be active. I don't have tingling or numbness in my hands or arms, but some in my legs. Not sure if it's from my neck or lower back, apparently there's more problems.0 -
JeromeBarry1 wrote: »My wife had that surgery when her C4-C5 joint developed a degenerate disk. This was possibly from a rear-end automobile collision decades earlier. She had been in intense pain for 4 years and it was pure hell. Pure. Hell. The surgeon promised 95% range of motion. Mrs. quickly agreed to anything. The day of surgery began with check-in at 5 a.m., and ended at 2 p.m. when we left with her in a neck collar. When the collar came off 2 months later, she had no noticeable reduction in her range of motion. Having been through hell, I observe in her that now she fears nothing.
Wow, that's a long time in the collar. I'm told a week in the hard collar and then soft collar. For a week, i think? He promised that i can ride in 4 weeks, hmm, not sure if i believe that. In my experience, everything that surgeon tells you in terms of recovery time, you have to double if you don't want to lose your mind as of why it's taking you longer to get better. So she's pain free after surgery? That's awesome and encouraging. I don't have too much pain, which seems surprising to doctors. But there's definitely compression of the spinal cord and it's irritated and not too happy.1 -
Did you have to wear a neck brace and do rehab for months? How long til you were back to full functioning?
If you were asking me, no, I did not have to wear a neck brace, and there was no rehab. The Dr told me to get back to my life asap and that normal daily activities would be the best form of recuperation. I asked him if this was true of all his patients, and he said not all but most, and he believed that getting range of motion and movement back was the most important thing. He said if I wanted to go to rehab, that'd be fine and he'd write the script, but that there wasn't much of a need for it, as long as a person got moving. He said walking was the best thing for quick recovery, so I did a huge amount of that, starting on my first day back from the hospital.
I was driving in 2 or 3 weeks (not allowed to drive for that amt of time). I would say it took about 4-6 weeks before everything had returned to full normal and life went on as it had before. I did feel tentative about things for probably 4-5 months, but that was more psychological than anything physical. I just didn't trust that I was "all better" until enough time went by. But as the Dr told me, there was zero possibility of breaking the titanium plate unless I banged my head into a brick wall repeatedly; it's stronger than the bone it's holding in place. Bone eventually grows in the crevice over 1 yr and makes everything really strong, but even before that process is complete, with the titanium plate you're ready to rejoin the world.
I was told to avoid contact sports for 4 months, but I don't do any of that, so it was a non issue.1 -
Bump. Still so conflicted about this, hoping for more responses. My prospective surgeon is using bone growth stimulation device. And just verified today with the nurse about not lifting anything, not even arms over shoulders. Worried about so many things, but don't want to end up paralyzed.1
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Yeah, I used the bone growth stimulation device. Couldn't believe that $5,000 thing was covered by my stingy insurance company, but it was. It does speed up the recovery by leaps and bounds, be sure to wear it as instructed.0
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Surgery scheduled for Friday. I'm definitely getting worse, so more pain, in my neck, shoulders, traveling down my arms, had some days where i had no strength to lift a water bottle or a cup of tea. That was scary. Numbness in my legs driving me mad. I have some other symptoms too. I will be using the neurosurgeon, not orthopedic surgeon. He takes bone from the bone bank, so no hip grafts. So scared still ( no improvement there either!). They use the growth stimulation device postop. Hopefully all will be well.6
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Wishing you the best0
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Good luck @icemom011 let us know how you make out.
Prior to my ACDF surgery (C4-C6) at the end of 2016, I had numbness & tingling from fingers to elbow on the left arm, numbness through both legs from toes to hips, & numbness and pain (seems odd now that I type it) across lower back, legs etc. I could walk generally fine, but occasionally would fall on stairs as I couldn't always teĺl if my foot was stepping on a stair or not ,until it was a bit too late... I couldn't sit for more than 20 minutes at a time.
Prior to surgery, the numbness and pain kept spreading. I was seriously worried about being paralyzed as more and more of my body seemed to feel less and less or oddly feel less & also replace normal feeling with pain.
After surgery, about a 90% improvement initially which got a bit less unfortunately as I healed. In my case, the bruising to my spinal cord had been too severe to recover completely but I recovered substantially.
Now (2019), I have some tingling/ numbness in two of my left fingers, numbness through my left leg and around my right knee and foot. No pain to speak of. Still even with this I'd say about 70% improvement from prior to surgery.
I was in a neck brace for about 6-8 weeks, off work for almost 4 months, & on restrictions for most of that time though they eased as I progressed (no lifting above shoulders, etc.) Still, dont think a bungee jump is in my near future, but I'm okay with that.
In 2016, before the surgery, I was worried I'd end up paralyzed in the next few years if I didn't do something.
2019 now & while I do have that numbness I mentioned, I'm so much better than I was.
I hope @icemom011 that you're experience is even better! Good Luck.
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Surgery scheduled for Friday. I'm definitely getting worse, so more pain, in my neck, shoulders, traveling down my arms, had some days where i had no strength to lift a water bottle or a cup of tea. That was scary. Numbness in my legs driving me mad. I have some other symptoms too. I will be using the neurosurgeon, not orthopedic surgeon. He takes bone from the bone bank, so no hip grafts. So scared still ( no improvement there either!). They use the growth stimulation device postop. Hopefully all will be well.
Hang in there!! You'll get through it. Right before my surgery I too couldn't lift a bottle or push open a door, all the strength was gone. As soon as I woke up from the anesthesia, I had full strength back, all of it. Try not to worry, and try to be optimistic -- the success rate is exceptionally high for ACDF and it's very likely you'll have your old life back very soon!!! Best wishes.0
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