Was just told that Keto burns 230% more fat than plain CICO....
Replies
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Dietary.
Just like if you were on a high carb diet, than fat oxidation would be lower and carb oxidation would increase.
Exactly. That makes sense. Some folks out there see "burn more fat" and wrongly interpret (wishful thinking?) it as body fat.
There's a guy on the bike forum singing this tune. Flavor your morning coffee with butter, to burn fat all day. Watch it for the devil's carbs, they'll pull you to hell.4 -
ArtemisArtist wrote: »Hi, I've been on and off Keto for the last few years it's the only thing that has ever worked for me to lose weight and for it to stay off.
Here's a good video explaining the science about why it works and people's fear about the negative effects.
https://youtu.be/Dan8qtgQRi8
I first heard of it when I used to work at a hospital years ago. It's what doctors put newly diagnosed diabetic patients on in the UK, the hope is, if they can stick to it their meds can be lowered or possibly even removed once the pancreas has had a chance to recover. It's not a new diet for humans, we've been eating like it for hundreds of thousands of years. The only option during winter until 8000 years ago when will switched to farming crops.
The reason why people say you lose more weight on a keto diet is because you don't have an any spikes in insulin. Insulin is the fat storage hormone, so whenever you have carbs, insulin spikes high and produces glucose that fuels you for whatever you are doing right then, and any excess gets turned into fat.
While you have insulin spiking in your blood it is impossible to lose fat, once insulin goes back down glucagon starts being produced which is the hormone that converts fat back into energy. The body can't release both at the same time, it's either one or the other. By eating keto meals you can have a much faster weight loss as a result.
I've always inadvertently slipped into intermittent fasting (only eating during a 6 hour window during the day, more info here
https://youtu.be/mK0Ct2wJvhw ) while on keto because the fat turns off ghrelin production which is the hormone that makes you hungry. Though you can put on weight with any diet if you over eat, it is incredibly difficult on the keto diet because you feel full so much quicker.
There is also dirty keto Vs clean keto. Bacon, butter, sausages Vs chicken breast, nuts, avocados... Etc... The fat in clean keto produces a type of good cholesterol. LDL cholesterol is sticky little bits that cause plaques that clog arteries Vs HDL fluffy light cholesterol that cleans out LDL. I eat a mixture of clean and dirty keto, bacon is just too tempting.
The best advantage though is unlike cico, the weight stays off without much effort one you stop eating keto diet. When you lower your calories significantly with cico your your metabolic rate slows, when you start to eat normally again, your metabolic rate stays at that new slow level which means you put the weight back on very quickly (the contestants from the biggest loser weight loss programme were badly affected by this, and that is why you never see a reunion programme of them because they all put the weight back on).
In keto the metabolic rate doesn't slow (or at least no where near as much) so it means once you stop eating keto unless you start binge eating it should stay off. With the exception of water weight which goes back on due to the low salt nature of the keto diet, salt/sodium being the water retention electrolyte.
Personal biggest problem to why I can't stick to it permanently is because I like meals with my friends and family and eating out far too much. Inconveniencing friends who are cooking for you to your diet in keto very difficult on them, also if my mum has cooked a roast when I visit, there is no way I'm turning down her roast potatoes. So it ebbs and flows, the food in my house is keto, but if eating with friends or family I consider those cheat reward meals.
The cheats do kick you out of ketosis and it does take in my case 1 to 2 weeks for full ketosis to be restored. But it's worth it for those roast potatoes. Get some keto strips to monitor your keto levels from Amazon if you're not sure if your in ketosis or not.
If you want to learn more on the science Dr Jason Fung has loads of YouTube videos explaining it https://www.youtube.com/embed/tIuj-oMN-Fk?list=PLPm8HQCPkqGjFoj1-WKpuZx7yAhSqBlbR
Wow, ok, that was way longer then I intended it to be, sorry for the waffle.
Bex
THIS IS A PERFECT EXPLANATION! THANK YOU - I am on keto cause i am Pre- diabetic.. PCOS.. AND UNHAPPY!20 -
230% sounds like the ratio of calories in fat to calories in carbs.
It may be just a load of hooey in click-bait.2 -
nicolerodriguez4411 wrote: »ArtemisArtist wrote: »Hi, I've been on and off Keto for the last few years it's the only thing that has ever worked for me to lose weight and for it to stay off.
Here's a good video explaining the science about why it works and people's fear about the negative effects.https://youtu.be/Dan8qtgQRi8
I first heard of it when I used to work at a hospital years ago. It's what doctors put newly diagnosed diabetic patients on in the UK, the hope is, if they can stick to it their meds can be lowered or possibly even removed once the pancreas has had a chance to recover. It's not a new diet for humans, we've been eating like it for hundreds of thousands of years. The only option during winter until 8000 years ago when will switched to farming crops.
The reason why people say you lose more weight on a keto diet is because you don't have an any spikes in insulin. Insulin is the fat storage hormone, so whenever you have carbs, insulin spikes high and produces glucose that fuels you for whatever you are doing right then, and any excess gets turned into fat.
While you have insulin spiking in your blood it is impossible to lose fat, once insulin goes back down glucagon starts being produced which is the hormone that converts fat back into energy. The body can't release both at the same time, it's either one or the other. By eating keto meals you can have a much faster weight loss as a result.
I've always inadvertently slipped into intermittent fasting (only eating during a 6 hour window during the day, more info herehttps://youtu.be/mK0Ct2wJvhw ) while on keto because the fat turns off ghrelin production which is the hormone that makes you hungry. Though you can put on weight with any diet if you over eat, it is incredibly difficult on the keto diet because you feel full so much quicker.
There is also dirty keto Vs clean keto. Bacon, butter, sausages Vs chicken breast, nuts, avocados... Etc... The fat in clean keto produces a type of good cholesterol. LDL cholesterol is sticky little bits that cause plaques that clog arteries Vs HDL fluffy light cholesterol that cleans out LDL. I eat a mixture of clean and dirty keto, bacon is just too tempting.
The best advantage though is unlike cico, the weight stays off without much effort one you stop eating keto diet. When you lower your calories significantly with cico your your metabolic rate slows, when you start to eat normally again, your metabolic rate stays at that new slow level which means you put the weight back on very quickly (the contestants from the biggest loser weight loss programme were badly affected by this, and that is why you never see a reunion programme of them because they all put the weight back on).
In keto the metabolic rate doesn't slow (or at least no where near as much) so it means once you stop eating keto unless you start binge eating it should stay off. With the exception of water weight which goes back on due to the low salt nature of the keto diet, salt/sodium being the water retention electrolyte.
Personal biggest problem to why I can't stick to it permanently is because I like meals with my friends and family and eating out far too much. Inconveniencing friends who are cooking for you to your diet in keto very difficult on them, also if my mum has cooked a roast when I visit, there is no way I'm turning down her roast potatoes. So it ebbs and flows, the food in my house is keto, but if eating with friends or family I consider those cheat reward meals.
The cheats do kick you out of ketosis and it does take in my case 1 to 2 weeks for full ketosis to be restored. But it's worth it for those roast potatoes. Get some keto strips to monitor your keto levels from Amazon if you're not sure if your in ketosis or not.
If you want to learn more on the science Dr Jason Fung has loads of YouTube videos explaining it https://www.youtube.com/embed/tIuj-oMN-Fk?list=PLPm8HQCPkqGjFoj1-WKpuZx7yAhSqBlbR
Wow, ok, that was way longer then I intended it to be, sorry for the waffle.
Bex
THIS IS A PERFECT EXPLANATION! THANK YOU - I am on keto cause i am Pre- diabetic.. PCOS.. AND UNHAPPY!
Hun, this forum is rather science driven. There are lots of people here who know what they're talking about and who'd like to warn you about woo and quakery. If a posting has a high Woo count it doesn't mean it's a great post, but it's complete tosh without any degree of truth in it.18 -
TrishSeren wrote: »Clearly, keto doesn't work for you because you can't stay on it long term, you say yourself you can't stick to it permanently, therefore, it isn't sustainable.
I posted my explanation for why I'm on the Keto diet at 1am, really wasn't prepared to wake up to so much vitriol from so many different users. In response to the above, after over 15 years of trying out different diets, the Keto diet is the only one that I have been able to loose significant weight on, and for it to stay off, (over 4 stone), and my weight is now stable. I'm not sticking to it like a religious zealot because I no longer need to shift a huge amount of weight, I enjoy eating with my friends and family so I choose not to.
I continue to eat a non calorie restricted diet on keto in my own home now because I feel so much better on it, and rarely feel hungry anymore. Last year I ran my first marathon and then another several months later, and then an ultra marathon after that. The second marathon I wasn't in keto for and I hit the proverbial wall about 90 mins in, I made sure for the ultra and I was back in keto and it was so much easier even though the distance was greater. I have much more energy for exercise when I'm in a ketogenic state.
I also suffered from bad acne from teens into my earlier 30's, tried every expensive cream and lotion under the sun, and the only medication that worked from the dermatologist caused a sever allergic reaction so I had to stop using it. A weird side effect I noticed when on keto is that my skin clears up. Whenever I do break keto for more than a few days spots slowly start appearing again.
I'm not a doctor, I don't know if it'll work for others, but I the know that the keto diet works for me, 3 years on from first starting it I'm healthier and happier than I ever have been in my life, and with a body confidence now that never previously existed.
I'm sorry if my referencing videos has annoyed certain people, but I'm only trying to understand what's going on in my own body when in ketosis, and those are the best explanations I have heard so far and decided to share them.
Bex
P.S. Dare I even mention Autophagy? Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine for his discoveries of mechanisms in it.
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My sister likes to research on the vast wide internet. She knows that I like the normal balanced CICO to lose weight where I eat all three macros without limiting one in particular.
She told me that she read that the Keto Diet burns more fat than the CICO diet. I would like to assume, (but don’t actually know) that the study (if it was one) had both groups of people eat in the same calorie deficit.
Anyway, i hope you see what I’m getting at and my question is, is this true?
To me, I don’t see how the make up of the diet besides the calories matter. The body can “burn” fat in a low calorie diet that consists of mainly carbs and protein? So why do people on the Keto diet think not eating carbs makes their fat burning so much better/amazing?
I know this topic is heated and I’m sure I do not know all the facts and could be wrong. Please help me understand the science and learn some more. Thank you!
CICO isn't a diet...it's the energy equation that everyone is subject to whether they are calorie counting, low carb, keto...whatever.
There are plenty of studies showing that with calories constant, there is no long term fat burning benefit to keto over anything else. Keto does result in a substantial amount of water weight loss early on, but that's about it.9 -
ArtemisArtist wrote: »I posted my explanation for why I'm on the Keto diet at 1am, really wasn't prepared to wake up to so much vitriol
Disagreement <> vitiol
12 -
ArtemisArtist wrote: »
I'm sorry if my referencing videos has annoyed certain people, but I'm only trying to understand what's going on in my own body when in ketosis, and those are the best explanations I have heard so far and decided to share them.
Bex
P.S. Dare I even mention Autophagy? Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine for his discoveries of mechanisms in it.
FYI - people are nearly always happy that someone has discoved a diet (verb or noun) that works for them.
What ruffles feathers is the truly appalling charlatans making a fortune out of duping the gullible (some of whom feature in your video selection) spouting absolute nonsense.
Maybe look at the work of Lyle McDonald as a far better source of an actual scientific explanation of how the ketogenic diet works?
Feel free to mention authophagy - have you seen any studies done on humans? Have you seen any way of measuring it so that different diets and eating pattens can be evaluated?
When you see claims for wonderous benefits of any diet do have a healthy scepticism and try to validate those claims. Measurable? Proven? Significant? Backed up by studies?
Clicking the woo button or taking issue with your choice of gurus is not vitriol. You have shared your viewpoint and others have shared theirs - the purpose of a forum.11 -
I like Lyle McDonald. He's written a book about keto, and here's an article: https://bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/comparing-the-diets-part-4.html/3
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ArtemisArtist wrote: »
I'm sorry if my referencing videos has annoyed certain people, but I'm only trying to understand what's going on in my own body when in ketosis, and those are the best explanations I have heard so far and decided to share them.
Bex
P.S. Dare I even mention Autophagy? Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine for his discoveries of mechanisms in it.
FYI - people are nearly always happy that someone has discoved a diet (verb or noun) that works for them.
What ruffles feathers is the truly appalling charlatans making a fortune out of duping the gullible (some of whom feature in your video selection) spouting absolute nonsense.
Maybe look at the work of Lyle McDonald as a far better source of an actual scientific explanation of how the ketogenic diet works?
Feel free to mention authophagy - have you seen any studies done on humans? Have you seen any way of measuring it so that different diets and eating pattens can be evaluated?
When you see claims for wonderous benefits of any diet do have a healthy scepticism and try to validate those claims. Measurable? Proven? Significant? Backed up by studies?
Clicking the woo button or taking issue with your choice of gurus is not vitriol. You have shared your viewpoint and others have shared theirs - the purpose of a forum.
Dr. Layne Norton did an interesting piece on autophagy recently. In the little bit of data available, it seems that there is some evidence supporting IF with autophagy, but it seems its not much different than regular caloric restriction and the effects are not as profound as exercise. So if one is concerned about autophagy, than exercise should be on the forefront of their regime.3 -
ArtemisArtist wrote: »TrishSeren wrote: »Clearly, keto doesn't work for you because you can't stay on it long term, you say yourself you can't stick to it permanently, therefore, it isn't sustainable.
I posted my explanation for why I'm on the Keto diet at 1am, really wasn't prepared to wake up to so much vitriol from so many different users. In response to the above, after over 15 years of trying out different diets, the Keto diet is the only one that I have been able to loose significant weight on, and for it to stay off, (over 4 stone), and my weight is now stable. I'm not sticking to it like a religious zealot because I no longer need to shift a huge amount of weight, I enjoy eating with my friends and family so I choose not to.
I continue to eat a non calorie restricted diet on keto in my own home now because I feel so much better on it, and rarely feel hungry anymore. Last year I ran my first marathon and then another several months later, and then an ultra marathon after that. The second marathon I wasn't in keto for and I hit the proverbial wall about 90 mins in, I made sure for the ultra and I was back in keto and it was so much easier even though the distance was greater. I have much more energy for exercise when I'm in a ketogenic state.
I also suffered from bad acne from teens into my earlier 30's, tried every expensive cream and lotion under the sun, and the only medication that worked from the dermatologist caused a sever allergic reaction so I had to stop using it. A weird side effect I noticed when on keto is that my skin clears up. Whenever I do break keto for more than a few days spots slowly start appearing again.
I'm not a doctor, I don't know if it'll work for others, but I the know that the keto diet works for me, 3 years on from first starting it I'm healthier and happier than I ever have been in my life, and with a body confidence now that never previously existed.
I'm sorry if my referencing videos has annoyed certain people, but I'm only trying to understand what's going on in my own body when in ketosis, and those are the best explanations I have heard so far and decided to share them.
Bex
P.S. Dare I even mention Autophagy? Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine for his discoveries of mechanisms in it.
This idea that people civilly disputing your sources is vitriol seems rather strange
Yes, keto is a good fit for you, it seems.
Thats great - and nobody had any issue with that.
It was the extrapolating from your n =1 to keto does magic superior things that it doesnt that people were disputing - and the providing of Utube videos as 'evidence'11 -
It's a far jump from "Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine for his discoveries of autophagy mechanisms" to the idea that a ketogenic diet or IF induces more/better autophagy than would otherwise occur, and that this is beneficial in specific ways for weight loss or health. Scientific conclusions (as opposed to questions or speculations) are in pretty early phases, though it's a fascinating area for research.6
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Speaking of vitriol, I may actually owe Barry Sears an apology.1
This discussion has been closed.
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