When is gearing up necessary?

RealWorldStrengthLLC

Posted this over in fitness but no hits, probably would have been better in here. Anyways...

I have pushed as far as I think I can completely raw...no shoes, no straps, no belt, no sleeves. No extra help but chalk.

Unfortunately, I'm starting to think the gearing up is becoming necessary. I lost a 530 deadlift today right at the top because my grip failed. Almost happened last week with a 515 farmers walk too. I've been starting to think my squats would benefit from knee sleeves and a belt as well.

Anyone want to weigh in on this?

wiigelec

What gear would you use for the deadlift?

RealWorldStrengthLLC

Straps and a belt. I said no gear until 500lbs at minimum but I managed to push past that into the 520s. I'm still not sure it's necessary but the fact that I've dropped 530 twice now might mean I'm at the limit of my forearm strength.

neugebauer52

On the bicycle when it's downhill.

wiigelec

If your grip is your weak point straps won’t help improve that.

What grip are you using double overhand, alternate or hook?

RealWorldStrengthLLC

Alternate.

My grip is usually not weak at all, just yesterday - although I do have some nerve damage in my left hand but that's not even the one that failed yesterday.

wiigelec

Have you considered hook grip?

wiigelec

As for squat knee sleeves and a belt I would not consider “gear” but necessary if you want to keep getting stronger...

kjm3579

I'm lifting way under your amounts and I have found that a good quality lifting belt helps a great deal. It makes the lifts easier and I have less sore muscles the next couple of days.

RealWorldStrengthLLC

wiigelec wrote: »

Have you considered hook grip?

I have not considered a hook grip I'll look into it.

I've avoided using a belt thus far because my core seems to be able to handle everything just fine.

claireychn074

I’m 45 yrs old and I use a belt when going heavy (for me), knee sleeves / wraps for squats and most of my Olympic lifts and I also use wrist wraps for all the overhead oly stuff. My joints are knackered from years of other sports so this gives me the support I need and helps to prevent injury. Obviously nothing is a substitute for building a stronger core and grip etc, but it helps me 😀

wiigelec

Not sure what your programming looks like but you’re pretty strong and you generally don’t get there by accident.

Do you mind giving some specifics on exercise selection, volume, intensity and frequency?

Thanks

Cahgetsfit

I responded to your thread in the other room.

Basically unless you really really need your grip strength for some reason, there is no harm in using straps or grips.

Belt is actually a good idea if you are going super heavy. All them powerlifty types wear them for heavy heavy lifts.

So it really depends on you - why would you not "gear up"? Do you think it's not as good?

I use grips for everything pull day coz i can pull way more than my little wrists and fingers can handle. I use a belt for heavy deadlifts and squats (heavy for me anyway)

usmcmp

I use straps for deadlift if I feel my grip gives out before the rest of me unless I am specifically training for a meet. I personally find a belt and knee sleeves harm my performance rather than help.

Chieflrg

If you don't plan on competing at any time in the future I wouldn't hesitate using lifting straps.

I would advice most people to where shoes with a arch support on squats and/or deads. When the arch collapses, mechanics can be altered.

Belt is not necessary, but I advice most people who plan on progress for years to wear one as it gives more options to training and progress. Personally I only use a belt one 1/3 days of squatting, 1/2-3 days of deads, 1/4 days of benching.

That being said if you wanted to wear a belt every day it really doesn't matter.

Knee sleeves 99.9% doesn't physically help you lift any weights other than comfort unless you were to get ridiculously tight ones that literally acted like wraps. Keeping the knees warm and toasty is just a good thing and perhaps some placebo too, nonetheless worth it for most people.

Using any of these things can be useful and I usually advice the people I train to purchase a high quality belt, lifting shoes, and knee sleeves pretty early on from coaching them. It's not a absolute but for someone who is pulling a little heavier weight and wants to continue to grow, its more than reasonable to invest in your training.

oedipuss

I raw powerlift.

Wrist wraps are important to me especially on pressing bars and 'bells. So many tiny little bones in the wrist joint, it's good to keep it supported IMHO and I always wear them.

Neoprene knee sleeves for squats were a revelation for me. As the weights increase I don't feel like as if my kneecaps are going to come flying off! Everything just feels secure, well tracked and keeps the joint nice and warm.

I wear a 3" powerlifting lever belt for squat and overhead press (at the moment). I am quite narrow between ribs and hips and the 4" was a killer and gave me hideous bruises. I never even knew 3" belts existed.

I hook grip for deadlifts. Yes it's pretty uncomfortable at first but I persevered and built up to it by starting on a deload week and then took it from there. It definitely becomes more tolerable as time passes.
I cannot stand alternate grip, it makes me queasy and knowing my luck and being of Masters age I'll be the one that gets a rare bicep tear!
I have used straps in the past but since I have my eye on maybe attending a meet sometime in the future I have stopped using them and just rely on hook grip and chalk.

All my stuff is IPF legal.

Try giving the hook grip a go.

RealWorldStrengthLLC

Thanks for all the replies - didn't mean to double thread.

I have looked into hook grip, seems painful but I'll give it a shot.

@Chieflrg - I do plan to compete in some local strongman stuff, however all that equipment is allowed except maybe straps on a farmers walk (that's up to the organizer). As for the shoes thing, I dropped shoes a long time ago on the advice of several people and never looked back. I can understand the need for squat shoes but if you go watch the Giants Live deadlift finals they're all in socks...best deadlifters in the world can't be wrong, right? For what it's worth I already have pretty flat feet and bad plantar fasciitis on my right foot anyways.

Belt might help...seems like every 3-4 months I hit a deadlift where I probably should drop it but I ego-drive through it and pull something. Nothing a muscle relaxer, foam roller, and hot tub can't fix but still...sets me back a few weeks.

RealWorldStrengthLLC

@wiigelec

My programming is actually really stripped down due to working 12 hour days, 5 days a week.

Shoulders - 11 sets log press (2 warm up, 1-3 at 95%+ RPE, the last 5 at 70% rpe with a burnout set at the end.) 4 to 8 rounds of sledgehammer tire hits as cool down.

Arms/shoulder accessories... not worth typing, curls and skullcrushers and whatnot.

Back - 4 sets of all exercises - pull ups, deadlifts, bb rows, tire flips.

Chest- 5 sets flat bench, 4 sets incline, 4 sets cable flyes.

Legs - 5 sets squats, 4 supersets of farmers walks and sled pushes. I OCCASIONALLY do hamstring/calf accessories if theres time but not usually.

claireychn074

Just a word of advice re hookgrip - start light and build up. I hookgrip everything but it kills until you get used to it! I occasionally have to tape my thumbs if I’m doing a volume sess as the discomfort can affect my form.

Chieflrg

youcantflexcardio wrote: »

Thanks for all the replies - didn't mean to double thread.

I have looked into hook grip, seems painful but I'll give it a shot.

@Chieflrg - I do plan to compete in some local strongman stuff, however all that equipment is allowed except maybe straps on a farmers walk (that's up to the organizer). As for the shoes thing, I dropped shoes a long time ago on the advice of several people and never looked back. I can understand the need for squat shoes but if you go watch the Giants Live deadlift finals they're all in socks...best deadlifters in the world can't be wrong, right? For what it's worth I already have pretty flat feet and bad plantar fasciitis on my right foot anyways.

Belt might help...seems like every 3-4 months I hit a deadlift where I probably should drop it but I ego-drive through it and pull something. Nothing a muscle relaxer, foam roller, and hot tub can't fix but still...sets me back a few weeks.

Deadlift socks are a option. In not downing socks, but the strongest pullers I've witnessed had shoes.

Also adding I have flat feet as well. I experienced plantar fasciitis when I used just socks. So I switched to wrestling shoes for better arch support as well as medial lateral support and never had the problem since. Not saying its the fix for all, but it's leans that way.

Keladelphia

youcantflexcardio wrote: »

Thanks for all the replies - didn't mean to double thread.

I have looked into hook grip, seems painful but I'll give it a shot.

@Chieflrg - I do plan to compete in some local strongman stuff, however all that equipment is allowed except maybe straps on a farmers walk (that's up to the organizer). As for the shoes thing, I dropped shoes a long time ago on the advice of several people and never looked back. I can understand the need for squat shoes but if you go watch the Giants Live deadlift finals they're all in socks...best deadlifters in the world can't be wrong, right? For what it's worth I already have pretty flat feet and bad plantar fasciitis on my right foot anyways.

Belt might help...seems like every 3-4 months I hit a deadlift where I probably should drop it but I ego-drive through it and pull something. Nothing a muscle relaxer, foam roller, and hot tub can't fix but still...sets me back a few weeks.

Hookgrip will definitely be painful for a few months but after a few months you'll never lift without a hookgrip again except when using straps. The problem with hookgrip is most people don't make it past those initial few terrible months or only use it when weights are light and comfortable and stop when weights are heavy and it gets really uncomfortable for a while. Because they stop when it gets heavy they never truly adjust to using hookgrip.

I think there is a benefit to both using lifting tools any not using lifting tools depending on what your goal is.

For my goals I use hookgrip for 90% of my lifting. I use straps for heavy pull volume (snatch pulls, clean pulls or dead lifts), multiple snatch rep sets from the hang position or multiple sets of snatches from the floor with zero rest between reps.The reason I use straps in these situations is because gaining grip strength isn't important for me when i'm doing the exercises I listed; the purpose of those exercises for me is to increase leg drive, work capacity or technique. Unless my hands are absolutely torn to shreds from training I wouldn't use straps for something such as a max snatch because I can't use them in competition. If you don't plan on competing and your goal is a max dead lift I wouldn't see any reason not to use straps personally.

I use knee wraps for all squats and cleans. I lifted without them for a few years but as i'm getting older there really is no reason not to use them. They keep my knees warm, increase the feeling of stability and reduce knee pain post training but I wouldn't say they improve performance any. I think of knee wraps simply as a tool to help me continue lifting for as long as possible.

I think belts can be a really great tool but people rely on them too much. I always use a belt for cleans and deadlifts over 80%. I generally squat two times a week without a belt and two times a week with a belt again depending on squat goals at the time. I always use a belt if i'm trying to max a squat whether it be multiple reps or a single.

In regards to belts I will say I see a ton of lifters (especially lifters that have only been lifting a year or two) throw on a belt anytime they feel a little unstable instead of learning how to brace properly without one or fix imbalances that are causing the issue. If you cant properly brace without a belt you won't be able to properly brace with one. I have no idea how long you've been lifting but if you're pulling your back on a deadlift every few months I wouldn't expect a belt to fix this, it will most likely only allow you to pull your back on a deadlift a couple of pounds heavier. This comment totally isn't a dig, i've been lifting for a long time and I hurt my back really badly on a heavy deadlift a few months ago. My point is I still hurt my back wearing a belt, the only thing that would have avoided the injury is fixing the glute and hamstring imbalances I know I had at the time. I just don't want you to think the belt will be a magic fix to stop you from hurting your back at max loads when there could be an underlying problem that needs to be addressed.

RealWorldStrengthLLC

@Keladelphia I've been lifting for approximately 8 years altogether, I'm about a year and a half back into it after a major depression where I quit lifting for 2 years and got fat. Like 300lbs fat. Currently sitting at 230 and cutting.

I know the issue-my form is pretty good...unless my ego gets in the way, or I just dont set up right (I do the strongman style sit down - roll the bar out, roll it into my shins and then pull with a good amount of momentum to give the bar some whip off the ground)...if I screw the roll out up, theres a fair chance I'm going to pull wrong and I should just stop and reset but I don't always do that (ego)

Keladelphia

youcantflexcardio wrote: »

@Keladelphia I've been lifting for approximately 8 years altogether, I'm about a year and a half back into it after a major depression where I quit lifting for 2 years and got fat. Like 300lbs fat. Currently sitting at 230 and cutting.

I know the issue-my form is pretty good...unless my ego gets in the way, or I just dont set up right (I do the strongman style sit down - roll the bar out, roll it into my shins and then pull with a good amount of momentum to give the bar some whip off the ground)...if I screw the roll out up, theres a fair chance I'm going to pull wrong and I should just stop and reset but I don't always do that (ego)

Well I’m super stoked to hear that you’ve gotten back into lifting after a hiatus and congrats on the amazing loss! I too experienced a bad depression, stopped exercising and ballooned up to around 240 before losing 100 pounds.

It sounds like you know what your issue is with your back pain (getting tight in your setup by stopping and resetting) I just wanted to mention the belt thing since I’ve seen some people think that a belt is going to be a magic fix for pain at heavy loads. Keep crushing 💪🏼