Good information on metabolism repair:

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ElizabethKalmbach
ElizabethKalmbach Posts: 1,416 Member
in Health and Weight Loss
Anyone have good information/groups/articles on the best way to go about repairing/supporting a slow metabolism - particularly with regard to problems brought on by anemia and chronic autoimmune disorder, rather than calorie restriction?

I know *rest* is important and not overdoing things too quick, and obviously correcting the anemia is a priority, but since I seem to end up gaining 10 lbs or more every time my metabolism tanks due to anemia, I am not enjoying this trend. At all.
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  • ElizabethKalmbach
    ElizabethKalmbach Posts: 1,416 Member
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    PS - I am under care of a proper doctor for the anemia and the chronic illnesses, but the doctor is more interested (rightly so) on tracking the source of anemia flares, rather than my general fitness. I would like to do what I can to support her efforts and maintain the rest of my meat suit while she considers test results and medication regimens.
  • ElizabethKalmbach
    ElizabethKalmbach Posts: 1,416 Member
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    That doesn't sound right to me.

    Part of it does (less movement would have been good, but I have 2 dogs to walk to maintain my own sanity), but most of the anemia symptoms have to do with not enough oxygen in your blood. If they can calculate your RMR by VO2 max - essentially calculating your calorie burn based on how much oxygen you're converting to CO2 in respiration, then OBVIOUSLY not having enough oxygen in your blood is going to have an effect on your metabolism.

    My eating and movement really haven't changed much and I've put on 12 lbs in one month. That's a lot, considering I haven't been having a month long pizza bender. However if my RMR dropped to the mid 600's like it did LAST TIME I had anemia (5 years ago), then I've been seriously over eating, considering a normal RMR for a human my size should be in the 1200's somewhere - and since I normally get good results using things like MFP and a Fitbit without significant modification to any of the built in algorithms, I'm going to assume that my *normal* RMR isn't weird enough to make the equipment technician choke, run my test a second time, and then check the equipment on himself to make sure it still works.



  • ElizabethKalmbach
    ElizabethKalmbach Posts: 1,416 Member
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    Again, I get that my case may not be *typical* and I'm under the care of a doctor for the really weird bits. I'm just looking for articles to read and things to try to support and improve my metabolism while the doctors and iron supplements do (or do not) their thing. These problems I'm having could take a while to solve, and I'm not down with gaining 12 lbs a month while I wait. I'm not even wanting to lose weight at the moment, because I don't want to take too many risks. I'm trying to identify what the risks may *be.*
  • chris_in_cal
    chris_in_cal Posts: 2,189 Member
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    ElizabethKalmbach wrote: »
    My eating and movement really haven't changed much and I've put on 12 lbs in one month.

    Something metastatic? A tumor?

  • kshama2001
    kshama2001 Posts: 27,910 Member
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    @CSARdiver @magnusthenerd I enjoyed reading your comments on metabolism in https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10765894/low-muscle-mass-due-to-weight-loss-what-supplements-can-i-take-to-aid-in-my-fitness-routine/p2 -perhaps you would care to weigh in here as well?
  • ElizabethKalmbach
    ElizabethKalmbach Posts: 1,416 Member
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    kshama2001 wrote: »

    I'm anemic myself and while I get extremely fatigued when it slips out of control, I haven't been considering it a slow metabolism, or a case of my metabolism needing repair, but simply fatigue due to insufficient hemoglobin to carry oxygen around efficiently.

    So I focus my efforts on getting my iron back up.

    I was first diagnosed with anemia over 30 years ago, but now that I am perimenopausal, with large uterine fibroids and very heavy periods, it takes more work to manage.
    1. I am currently taking iron bisglycinate. This doesn't give me the constipation or upset stomach side effects that other forms of iron can cause. The first two forms of iron I got from the VA were ineffective at getting both my iron and energy levels back up.
    2. Here is my new go-to dinner for the week of my period: https://www.allrecipes.com/recipe/186691/lisas-favorite-carne-asada-marinade/ I use chuck stew beef and cook it on Low in my crock pot for @ 8 hours.
    3. For lunch during my period I eat Wellshire Liverwurst; 2 oz = 35% RDA iron. If I can't make it to Whole Foods I get Boar's Head Liverwurst, 2 oz = 25% RDA iron. (For people who want more iron but don't like liver - neither do I; can't stand the stuff, but I do like liverwurst. Wellshire also makes turkey liverwurst. Less iron, but also less fat and calories. Last I checked this brand was exclusive to Whole Foods.)
    4. I've added chicken liver pate into the lunch rotation: https://cooking.nytimes.com/recipes/1012954-creamy-chicken-liver-pate 2 oz = 22% RDA iron (but a lot less calories and fat than liverwurst)
    5. Iron rich foods: https://www.redcrossblood.org/donate-blood/blood-donation-process/before-during-after/iron-blood-donation/iron-rich-foods.html (I discount foods that were fortified with iron as presumably the food manufacturers use cheap and potentially ineffective forms of iron.)
    6. I also mix 1 T of blackstrap molasses into a cup of warm water every morning. That gives me 20% RDA. Here's what I order https://smile.amazon.com/Wholesome-Sweeteners-Organic-Molasses-Pack/dp/B001M0G2PO/ but caution - this brand can leak, so best to not get anything else with that order. It was the cheapest, so I continued to put up with it. (Plus last time Amazon just credited me for the whole thing.) However, I see the price has almost doubled since I last ordered so maybe try to get locally instead. Old price was $21 for three 32 oz bottles. Last time I ordered blackstrap molasses was cheaper here: https://www.iherb.com/pr/Wholesome-Sweeteners-Inc-Organic-Molasses-Unsulphured-32-fl-oz-944-ml/34616 (Note: this comes in 16 oz and 32 oz.)
    7. Vitamin C helps with iron absorption and I mix powdered, buffered vitamin C into the molasses "tea" to create a dreadful concoction. https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B000I4AIUA/

    Thank you, this is some of the information I was looking for. I already have "pernicious anemia" under control with B12 injections. It would appear though, that my uptake of anything other than fat is less than ideal, since now my iron has tanked, despite being a happy little omnivore with regular meals of the normal iron-containing things, and no period unless I forget to take my pill.

    I didn't know about the molasses, but I have some in the house for baking Christmas cookies. It's available locally at reasonable price, so I'll give that a whirl once I'm done with the static dose prescription supplement experiment I'm running on my body for the doc. ;-)

    :)

    The doctor is currently trying to work out if "regular supplementation" will solve the issue, or if I need something more extreme (Probably. My body does nothing by halves.). She's also trying to figure out if I'm *losing blood* somewhere or if I'm just not doing what needs to be done with the nutrients in my diet. For now, I'm on a prescription dose of ferrous sulfate and vitamin C for a month before another ferratin (and other) test to see if the problem is uptake or output or what.


  • ElizabethKalmbach
    ElizabethKalmbach Posts: 1,416 Member
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    cmriverside wrote: »
    It doesn't seem logical to me that you would gain 12 actual FAT pounds in a month, it would appear that your body has increased its inflammation (water weight) due to the lack of iron and/or the autoimmune (inflammatory) disease.

    One thing for sure, the body will go to extremes to balance electrolytes, so no reason to think it isn't something more along the lines of increased fluid.

    I'm really hoping you're correct, as I am already a *champion fluid retainer.* My BP is a little high for me and my heart rate is up about 20bpm at rest. It's all rather freaky and sometimes I wish my MiBand didn't collect quite as much data as it does. Other times I'm happy to be able to hand my doctor charts and graphs so she can sort me out faster. :persevere:
  • LAT1963
    LAT1963 Posts: 1,375 Member
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    Anemia-->less activity-->less metabolism. But I agree, 12 lbs in a month is gonna be water retention.
  • kshama2001
    kshama2001 Posts: 27,910 Member
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    ElizabethKalmbach wrote: »
    kshama2001 wrote: »

    I'm anemic myself and while I get extremely fatigued when it slips out of control, I haven't been considering it a slow metabolism, or a case of my metabolism needing repair, but simply fatigue due to insufficient hemoglobin to carry oxygen around efficiently.

    So I focus my efforts on getting my iron back up.

    I was first diagnosed with anemia over 30 years ago, but now that I am perimenopausal, with large uterine fibroids and very heavy periods, it takes more work to manage.
    1. I am currently taking iron bisglycinate. This doesn't give me the constipation or upset stomach side effects that other forms of iron can cause. The first two forms of iron I got from the VA were ineffective at getting both my iron and energy levels back up.
    2. Here is my new go-to dinner for the week of my period: https://www.allrecipes.com/recipe/186691/lisas-favorite-carne-asada-marinade/ I use chuck stew beef and cook it on Low in my crock pot for @ 8 hours.
    3. For lunch during my period I eat Wellshire Liverwurst; 2 oz = 35% RDA iron. If I can't make it to Whole Foods I get Boar's Head Liverwurst, 2 oz = 25% RDA iron. (For people who want more iron but don't like liver - neither do I; can't stand the stuff, but I do like liverwurst. Wellshire also makes turkey liverwurst. Less iron, but also less fat and calories. Last I checked this brand was exclusive to Whole Foods.)
    4. I've added chicken liver pate into the lunch rotation: https://cooking.nytimes.com/recipes/1012954-creamy-chicken-liver-pate 2 oz = 22% RDA iron (but a lot less calories and fat than liverwurst)
    5. Iron rich foods: https://www.redcrossblood.org/donate-blood/blood-donation-process/before-during-after/iron-blood-donation/iron-rich-foods.html (I discount foods that were fortified with iron as presumably the food manufacturers use cheap and potentially ineffective forms of iron.)
    6. I also mix 1 T of blackstrap molasses into a cup of warm water every morning. That gives me 20% RDA. Here's what I order https://smile.amazon.com/Wholesome-Sweeteners-Organic-Molasses-Pack/dp/B001M0G2PO/ but caution - this brand can leak, so best to not get anything else with that order. It was the cheapest, so I continued to put up with it. (Plus last time Amazon just credited me for the whole thing.) However, I see the price has almost doubled since I last ordered so maybe try to get locally instead. Old price was $21 for three 32 oz bottles. Last time I ordered blackstrap molasses was cheaper here: https://www.iherb.com/pr/Wholesome-Sweeteners-Inc-Organic-Molasses-Unsulphured-32-fl-oz-944-ml/34616 (Note: this comes in 16 oz and 32 oz.)
    7. Vitamin C helps with iron absorption and I mix powdered, buffered vitamin C into the molasses "tea" to create a dreadful concoction. https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B000I4AIUA/

    Thank you, this is some of the information I was looking for. I already have "pernicious anemia" under control with B12 injections. It would appear though, that my uptake of anything other than fat is less than ideal, since now my iron has tanked, despite being a happy little omnivore with regular meals of the normal iron-containing things, and no period unless I forget to take my pill.

    I didn't know about the molasses, but I have some in the house for baking Christmas cookies. It's available locally at reasonable price, so I'll give that a whirl once I'm done with the static dose prescription supplement experiment I'm running on my body for the doc. ;-)

    :)

    The doctor is currently trying to work out if "regular supplementation" will solve the issue, or if I need something more extreme (Probably. My body does nothing by halves.). She's also trying to figure out if I'm *losing blood* somewhere or if I'm just not doing what needs to be done with the nutrients in my diet. For now, I'm on a prescription dose of ferrous sulfate and vitamin C for a month before another ferratin (and other) test to see if the problem is uptake or output or what.

    My pleasure!

    Note: it is blackstrap molasses, not regular, and not great for cooking as it is lower in sugar and so somewhat bitter. I ruined gingerbread with it once, and did not try to cook with it again. Wholesome Sweeteners has 20% RDA per T but many brands have less.

    Between supplements and food I have to take about 400% RDA of iron to stay in Low Normal.

    What is the form of iron that you are currently taking?
  • ElizabethKalmbach
    ElizabethKalmbach Posts: 1,416 Member
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    kshama2001 wrote: »

    What is the form of iron that you are currently taking?

    The prescription is for 325mg of ferrous sulfate and 1000mg Vitamin C to be taken together on an empty stomach every other day. I'm sticking with the scrip for the first month, because after that, we'll do another ferritin test and see if my numbers change at all in expected or unexpected ways. My body does really unusual tricks so I try to comply with doctor's orders for limited testing periods like this month,so that they have good data for judging where to go next. We're only at the *beginning* of troubleshooting these (multiple) issues I'm having, and we're not entirely sure the iron isn't a symptom of something else or comorbid with something else.

    Mean time, I'm trying to offset setbacks in the rest of my life so that I'm not utterly despondent and depressed by the time someone figures me out.
  • magnusthenerd
    magnusthenerd Posts: 1,207 Member
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    kshama2001 wrote: »
    @CSARdiver @magnusthenerd I enjoyed reading your comments on metabolism in https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10765894/low-muscle-mass-due-to-weight-loss-what-supplements-can-i-take-to-aid-in-my-fitness-routine/p2 -perhaps you would care to weigh in here as well?

    My contribution would be akin to psuLemon's and maybe yours on vitamin c.

    About the only other thing would be looking over zinc intake. Zinc will compete with iron for gut intake.
    Might also be worth checking sources of iron. Heme iron from animal sources has a better absorption than plant sources.
  • kshama2001
    kshama2001 Posts: 27,910 Member
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    ElizabethKalmbach wrote: »
    kshama2001 wrote: »

    What is the form of iron that you are currently taking?

    The prescription is for 325mg of ferrous sulfate and 1000mg Vitamin C to be taken together on an empty stomach every other day. I'm sticking with the scrip for the first month, because after that, we'll do another ferritin test and see if my numbers change at all in expected or unexpected ways. My body does really unusual tricks so I try to comply with doctor's orders for limited testing periods like this month,so that they have good data for judging where to go next. We're only at the *beginning* of troubleshooting these (multiple) issues I'm having, and we're not entirely sure the iron isn't a symptom of something else or comorbid with something else.

    Mean time, I'm trying to offset setbacks in the rest of my life so that I'm not utterly despondent and depressed by the time someone figures me out.

    Ferrous sulfate was one of the forms my doctor had me take initially. It got my iron levels up, but not my energy levels. However, I do support you trying it for the month.
  • kshama2001
    kshama2001 Posts: 27,910 Member
    edited September 2019
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    ElizabethKalmbach wrote: »
    Anyone have good information/groups/articles on the best way to go about repairing/supporting a slow metabolism - particularly with regard to problems brought on by anemia and chronic autoimmune disorder, rather than calorie restriction?

    I know *rest* is important and not overdoing things too quick, and obviously correcting the anemia is a priority, but since I seem to end up gaining 10 lbs or more every time my metabolism tanks due to anemia, I am not enjoying this trend. At all.

    Because of my own experience with anemia, when you say "metabolism tanks" I hear "energy levels tank", so that is how I am framing my response.

    Normally I like to get about 400-500 calories worth of intentional exercise per day, and I also am doing a lot of random activity that keeps my NEAT high. (We have a great thread on NEAT here.)

    When my energy tanks, not only am I not exercising, I'm also NEATing much less. I work from home, and have recorded a mere 600 steps on these days. (And I don't eat less, partially because I am doing some comfort eating. Needless to say, this makes weight loss challenging, and facilitates weight gain.)

    I find the Spoon Theory useful for these low energy periods.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spoon_theory

    ...This metaphor is used to describe the planning that many people have to do to conserve and ration their energy reserves to accomplish their activities of daily living.[1] The planning and rationing of energy-consuming tasks has been described as being a major concern of those with chronic and fatigue-related diseases, illness, or conditions. The theory explains the difference between those who don't seem to have energy limits and those that do. The theory is used to facilitate discussions between those with limited energy reserves and those without.

    https://butyoudontlooksick.com/articles/written-by-christine/the-spoon-theory/

    http://b12patch.com/blog/the-spoon-theory-and-pernicious-anemia-are-you-a-spoonie/
    ...Since its inception, the Spoon Theory has gained massive appeal. Not only has it enabled many chronically fatigued patients (like pernicious anemia sufferers) to cope with their ailments, but it has also broadened awareness for the many illnesses that fall under the category of “invisible diseases,” including:
  • collectingblues
    collectingblues Posts: 2,541 Member
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    psuLemon wrote: »
    Well, its not likely that anemia effects your metabolism but rather your energy which makes it harder to move around a lot.

    Fixing your anemia and addressing your symptoms for your chronic illness should allow you to have more energy which should allow you to move more.

    Consuming foods like dark leafy greens, meat, seafood, and beans can help improve some of your anemia symptoms.

    Precisely what I was going to say. I'm very anemic, and my *metabolism* is fine. The energy balance sucks sometimes, but my metabolism is absolutely not affected by it...
  • psychod787
    psychod787 Posts: 4,088 Member
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    Liver.... high iron.... greens....

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