barbell deadlift vs. squat vs. deadlift squat
surfbug808
Posts: 251 Member
My squats are good and I have good form.
I've learned some deadlifting in the past, using kettle bells. I'm now being re-introduced to the deadlift with a barbell, something I have little to no experience with.
Different trainers teach the deadlift differently, and I understand that it also depends on body type (e.g. someone with long legs will use a different posture than someone with short legs), or it depends on what muscles are being emphasized, and there are different deadlift forms for the barbell etc.
Previously, my deadlift posture (conventional) and squat posture were distinctly different. But now, I'm being taught the deadlift using more of a squat posture (my back is more parallel to the shins). My understanding is that I will be able to lift more this way, though that's not necessarily my goal. This "squat" form is new to me and a bit confusing, because I can't tell the difference between my usual squats and this current deadlift now. I was told that other than lifting the bar from the ground, in this case, the lower body form is not much different from the front barbell squat.
Input? Clarity? Your experience?
I've learned some deadlifting in the past, using kettle bells. I'm now being re-introduced to the deadlift with a barbell, something I have little to no experience with.
Different trainers teach the deadlift differently, and I understand that it also depends on body type (e.g. someone with long legs will use a different posture than someone with short legs), or it depends on what muscles are being emphasized, and there are different deadlift forms for the barbell etc.
Previously, my deadlift posture (conventional) and squat posture were distinctly different. But now, I'm being taught the deadlift using more of a squat posture (my back is more parallel to the shins). My understanding is that I will be able to lift more this way, though that's not necessarily my goal. This "squat" form is new to me and a bit confusing, because I can't tell the difference between my usual squats and this current deadlift now. I was told that other than lifting the bar from the ground, in this case, the lower body form is not much different from the front barbell squat.
Input? Clarity? Your experience?
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Replies
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Where are you receiving this instruction?
A properly performed deadlift should have zero resemblance to a front squat...10 -
hm yeah seems odd that it's the same as a front squat.
take a look at this - deadlift cues
squat - low bar back squat that is, not front squat -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZuInawL0Eo
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OP, are you using a barbell or a trap / hex bar? I could see a hex bar deadlift looking more like a front squat.2
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OP, are you using a barbell or a trap / hex bar? I could see a hex bar deadlift looking more like a front squat.
I'm using a barbell without the rack.
I originally learned the deadlift with the trap/hex bar.
And deadlift with kettle bells.
And barbell, continuing the same form of a conventional deadlift, which didn't look anything like a squat.
I stopped deadlifting for a few years.
Now I'm back to it. I started with the Romanian deadlift with kettlebell, which doesn't resemble a squat at all.
The current barbell deadlift form I'm learning now feels/looks more like a squat...
I'll have to ask the trainer some more questions... definitely need to more fully understand what the purpose is of this kind of squat-like deadlift...
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Where are you receiving this instruction?
A properly performed deadlift should have zero resemblance to a front squat...
I'm checking out a new trainer. He held a previous record in deadlifting championships...
My experience with deadlifting in the past is that yes, it's nothing like a front squat. I had to work hard to make sure my body made that distinction in the beginning. So the form I'm learning now, where the deadlift and squat are similar, or practically the same (to me at least), is confusing and new. Since there are various deadlift techniques, am hoping to get more insight into this one...0 -
Cahgetsfit wrote: »hm yeah seems odd that it's the same as a front squat.
take a look at this - deadlift cues
squat - low bar back squat that is, not front squat -https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZuInawL0Eo
Love the deadlift video! The other one is a good one too.
I normally don't do low bar back squats, I prefer the front. I think I just need to get more clarity from the trainer...0 -
Other than keeping the barbell balanced over midfoot, the two lifts should not be compared.
With that being said for squats, your barbell positioning, your atomical proportions, along with your current strength and leverages will have way more to do with how you squat than a dead lift.
I assure you on a dead lift, you have no choice where your hip height will be once the barbell breaks the ground at near maximal weights. So you can definitely strengthen muscles and things may change over time, but you cannot force a posture and assume it will be stronger other than the normal setup of...
Conventional: barbell over midfoot, shins barely touching barbell, fully extended back with late engaged fully. slack pulled, valsalva maneuver, etc...is generally speaking the strongest position you can lift from.
As for a my front squat, it doesn't emulate in the least compared to my sumo or conventional pull. It's not even close.
I'll add for what its worth, I currently hold many minor records for squats and deadlifts in the USAPL for my a couple age groups in a couple weight classes.
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Other than keeping the barbell balanced over midfoot, the two lifts should not be compared.
With that being said for squats, your barbell positioning, your atomical proportions, along with your current strength and leverages will have way more to do with how you squat than a dead lift.
I assure you on a dead lift, you have no choice where your hip height will be once the barbell breaks the ground at near maximal weights. So you can definitely strengthen muscles and things may change over time, but you cannot force a posture and assume it will be stronger other than the normal setup of...
Conventional: barbell over midfoot, shins barely touching barbell, fully extended back with late engaged fully. slack pulled, valsalva maneuver, etc...is generally speaking the strongest position you can lift from.
As for a my front squat, it doesn't emulate in the least compared to my sumo or conventional pull. It's not even close.
I'll add for what its worth, I currently hold many minor records for squats and deadlifts in the USAPL for my a couple age groups in a couple weight classes.
I'm going to see the trainer next week. For now, I decided to go back to the conventional dead lift as I originally learned it, which is the way you described above. I appreciate the credibility or your experience as well, it adds to where the insights are coming from. To avoid more confusion on my part, I'm going to ask the trainer for more detail around the "squat" like technique he's showing me, it's purposes etc. I'll post an update next week. Thanks for all the input!1 -
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A pretty thorough mechanical description of the deadlift can be found here:
https://www.amazon.com/Starting-Strength-Basic-Barbell-Training/dp/0982522738
It will explain why a deadlift form with a vertical back, shoulders over the hips and knees way in front of the toes as in a front squat, will not work for heavy deadlifts...0 -
A pretty thorough mechanical description of the deadlift can be found here:
https://www.amazon.com/Starting-Strength-Basic-Barbell-Training/dp/0982522738
It will explain why a deadlift form with a vertical back, shoulders over the hips and knees way in front of the toes as in a front squat, will not work for heavy deadlifts...
Yep, I already picked this book up last week!0 -
Update: Saw trainer today, and asked why we were doing a "squat-like" deadlift, instead of the conventional.
He said he modified the deadlift to contain more of a squat movement within the deadlift:
-to emphasize more leg work (and less on the back, which he prefers to focus with other exercises, including the stiff legged deadlift or non-related deadlift exercises)
-because I was lowering and lifting from very close to the ground
But he clarified that it also depends on my goals. I realize I had mentioned previously that I wanted to focus a lot on strengthening my legs, so there may have been a misunderstanding. So today I said that since I already do a lot of squats and leg work, I didn't want the deadlift to be more about that.
Bottom-line, I am now doing the original conventional deadlift, without any squat movement, and making sure I don't lower the bar beyond a foot from the ground (keep the bar itself above the ground at least a foot)
I've never seen such a modified squat-like deadlift before, but talking about it with him helped me understand what his purposes were. We agreed though that since I prefer the conventional deadlift, I'm sticking with that.
Thanks for everyone's input. There's so much to learn with any exercise, and all the details are great.
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