Cals vs Carbs
KristaMac88
Posts: 163 Member
So about 6 months ago I somehow got head strong and decided I was going to do keto, stuck with it for about 2 months and lost 15lbs and felt great. I then decided to have a cheat night with drinks and food with hubby and never got back on after that. Ive gained about 8lbs back. I KNOW its all about calorie deficit in the long run, and keto was just a way of cutting certain things out to make that happen..but ever since I started really looking at carbs, I cant go back to tracking normally and not cringing over high amount of carbs and in my head needing to stay under even 100 for the whole day. Today I didnt get a chance to pack food to bring to work so had a nurtigrain bar in the morning... and mozza sticks at lunch. and when I logged them into carb manager, the mozza sticks (unless boxed and deep fried from a restaurant are very dif) but were less carbs than the kellogs little nutrigrain bar! I honestly dont even know what im asking advice for... I guess just people to give me their opinions on which they count (carbs vs just overall cals) and if they have found a happy medium to eat relatively healthy yet somehow keep a nightly snack in their day to not feel deprived and quit so easy. OR if you can have that snack without going overboard or if you have to cut it all out cold turkey? I just need advice to get my head back in the game before I gain all my weight back and the mirror and feeling gross clearly isnt enough..
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Replies
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I read this one the other day. Focus on positive goals instead of negative ones. Make sure to get enough protein and fat. Make sure to get enough fiber in your diet. Meet those goals, and everything else will fall into place.
I tried low carb once (gained all the weight back) no more. Permanent/lifestyle changes are what's going to keep the weight off. If you can't see low carb long term, don't do it.12 -
I feel like you are conflating "low carb" and "healthy". I eat plenty of healthy foods that are carbs - Fruits, vegetables, rolled oats, beans, lentils, yogurt, whole grains. I typically eat @ 200g of carbs per day, though I don't aim for that, it just happens. I also usually have either a bowl of ice cream or kids cereal, or some Oreos, or some chips or pretzels every night (a weighed out and logged portion that fits in my calories).
I lost weight based on my calories eating this way, and have been maintaining for a couple of years. I focus first on calories, then I aim to hit my protein, fat, and fiber goals more often than not. My blood work is great, I have no health concerns.
There is no reason why a cheese stick or a granola bar should make you feel disgusting. It's just food. Some days you aren't prepared or you don't make the best choice, but your health is defined by the entirety of your diet, activity, and genetics, not the unplanned snack you had on Tuesday
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I never have a problem getting fats in. I tent to go over each day. But yes, protein is a big problem area. I also am inconsistent with flipping between here and using carb manager. I feel good when I dont eat alot of carbs and i guess in my head because that was the only way I lost weight before its the onnnlyyyy thing thats going to work for me..1
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I like to hear people say they dont cut out all yummy food and have lost still. I guess i just need to keep forcing myself to log stuff in, even if its the main bulk of items and then once i get on a roll or see how over im going each day get strick with weighing and measuring every little thing/sauces.2
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I eat anything I want to eat. Nothing is forbidden (except peanuts because of an allergy).
What I do is weigh and log every thing i plan to eat, so that my PORTIONS fit into my daily goals.
Sometimes, I eat a little amount of calorie dense food (dried dates stuffed with cashew butter) , and other times I eat a huge pile of low calorie food (a whole package of frozen peas).
Good luck to you, and good fitness to us all!6 -
KristaMac88 wrote: »I never have a problem getting fats in. I tent to go over each day. But yes, protein is a big problem area. I also am inconsistent with flipping between here and using carb manager. I feel good when I dont eat alot of carbs and i guess in my head because that was the only way I lost weight before its the onnnlyyyy thing thats going to work for me..
If you're someone who does feel better eating low carb, than aim for that. But regardless of how you choose to eat, allowing your emotions and self-worth to be based on what you ate today is unhealthy, IMHO more unhealthy than a mozzarella stick. For someone without a health condition that requires dietary vigilance, sticking to a specific diet is not an all-or-nothing proposition.6 -
Controlling carbs only matters in the sense that carbs have calories, and if you overeat them, you may be in a calorie surplus. But the same is true about fats and protein. You gain weight if you eat a calorie surplus, you lose weight if you eat a calorie deficit. Some people find that low carb makes it easier for them to stay in a deficit, because they feel fuller longer. But the mechanics of it are the same as losing weight any other way.
As @kimny72 mentioned, carbs are in some of the healthiest foods there are. Fruits, vegetables, legumes, whole grains, etc. One of the risks of low carb diets is nutritional deficiency as you cut out some very important and beneficial foods from your intake.
As you mentioned, mozzarella sticks don't have as many carbs as a nutrigrain bar. That should not be surprising. Mozzarella sticks get most of their calories from the cheese and oil used to cook/prepare it, which don't have any carbs. There is only carbs in the breading. A nutrigrain bar on the other hand will be mostly carbs because it is made up of grains. So the nutrigrain bar will be less calories than mozzarella sticks. This is where counting carbs vs. calories can lead you astray. The mozzarella sticks are not better for weight loss, since they have more calories. You could eat a triple cheeseburger which won't have many carbs. But it will have a ton of calories. So really calories are what are important. Low carb may be helpful to you personally to reach your goals, but just focusing on carbs and not the overall calories is going to be be as accurate as focusing on calories.9 -
That makes sense. And I know fruit and vegetables have some carbs to, I dont cut them all out. The only vegetable I really cut out besides the odd time is potatoes. Im talking bad carbs. Im a junk food lovveeerrrr and have no self control around candy or chocolate. I start craving come mid afternoon, unless work is busy enough to take my mind off it, then to get out of this desk i go for a walk,,,and end up getting that junk food. Then after supper we usually have chips or candy out during our evening movie. If i had the self control to do good all day and limit a portion out to fit in my day it prob wouldnt be so bad. But i cant. Which is why im gaining weight back and feeling so bloated and crappy.
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KristaMac88 wrote: »That makes sense. And I know fruit and vegetables have some carbs to, I dont cut them all out. The only vegetable I really cut out besides the odd time is potatoes. Im talking bad carbs. Im a junk food lovveeerrrr and have no self control around candy or chocolate. I start craving come mid afternoon, unless work is busy enough to take my mind off it, then to get out of this desk i go for a walk,,,and end up getting that junk food. Then after supper we usually have chips or candy out during our evening movie. If i had the self control to do good all day and limit a portion out to fit in my day it prob wouldnt be so bad. But i cant. Which is why im gaining weight back and feeling so bloated and crappy.
Why would you cut out potatoes? Have you looked at the nutritional profile of a potato...they are hella nutritious. Beyond that, most of what you mention isn't "carbs"...most of what you mention in regards to "junk" foods are a highly palatable combination of fat and sugar...much of which has as much or more calories coming from fat than carbohydrates and are typically calorie dense with limited nutritional value.
Yes, you can eat these things so long as you can do so while hitting your calorie targets...but if you have difficulty moderating them it's going to be pretty hard, which is why you'll find a mix of moderators and abstainers here. Certain things are easy for me to moderate...I don't have a tremendous sweet tooth so it's pretty easy for me to have a cookie or something for desert at night and call it good without going off the rails. Things like chips, not so much which is why I don't really keep them in the house and when I do get them, I get the individual serving bag and that's it. They're usually something I have as a special treat when I'm camping or something...or I'll put out chips and salsa when people are over at the house...but I don't keep them around on the regular.
ETA: I don't really watch carbs at all. I'm a carnivore, but I eat a heavily plant based diet...lots of whole grains, legumes, lentils, potatoes and sweet potatoes and beets and other root vegetables, fruits, vegetables, etc. I eat a lot of carbs.12 -
The only time I count carbs is when I'm doing a very long distance ride and tryng to keep close to 90g of carbs an hour.
It's seriously messed up to think carbs (in all their amazingly different forms) are somehow unhealthy. The healthiest populations in the world (blue zones) tend to have very high carb diets - what they don't have is overeating and under-moving.
Lacking self control around certain foods (whether carbs, fat or protein or combinations of all three) can be addressed without demonising a whole macro. It's the self control that IMHO you should work on rather than skirt round the real issue.
Maybe reading the Chimp Paradox and doing the mind training exerrcises might help? Self improvement rather than avoidance?8 -
I guess im going to have to ban it from the house and go through withdrawals and kick the biggest problem first. Then work on actually counting cals and portion sizes and cutting stuff out from there. I find ive been off the rails for so long that jumping right back in I last half a day and get frustrated trying to count and measure everything then go over with stuff i didnt realize was that much and just quit. I admire people who just decide one day they are going to do it, and stick with it until their goal is reached. No matter how prego and bloated I look, or gross i feel, or mad my clothes dont fit, as soon as temptation is around - i give in. then feel bad. Swear thats it, starting again the next day and sticking to it...might make it through a day or two. Then give in again..for an entire weekend..lol0
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The only time I count carbs is when I'm doing a very long distance ride and tryng to keep close to 90g of carbs an hour.
It's seriously messed up to think carbs (in all their amazingly different forms) are somehow unhealthy. The healthiest populations in the world (blue zones) tend to have very high carb diets - what they don't have is overeating and under-moving.
Lacking self control around certain foods (whether carbs, fat or protein or combinations of all three) can be addressed without demonising a whole macro. It's the self control that IMHO you should work on rather than skirt round the real issue.
Maybe reading the Chimp Paradox and doing the mind training exerrcises might help? Self improvement rather than avoidance?
Ive never heard of that but will look into it!1 -
I eat the foods I love and focus on staying in a calorie deficit. I researched keto and because it restricted carbs so much, I knew it wouldn't be sustainable for me. I love my bread, fruit and pasta too much.
If you feel deprived, chances are you'll crash and burn. I make sure I'm satisfied with my foods and am happy with my results so far.4 -
KristaMac88 wrote: »I guess im going to have to ban it from the house and go through withdrawals and kick the biggest problem first. Then work on actually counting cals and portion sizes and cutting stuff out from there. I find ive been off the rails for so long that jumping right back in I last half a day and get frustrated trying to count and measure everything then go over with stuff i didnt realize was that much and just quit. I admire people who just decide one day they are going to do it, and stick with it until their goal is reached. No matter how prego and bloated I look, or gross i feel, or mad my clothes dont fit, as soon as temptation is around - i give in. then feel bad. Swear thats it, starting again the next day and sticking to it...might make it through a day or two. Then give in again..for an entire weekend..lol
If you asked the people who who have had the most success, not only losing weight, but keeping it off and maintaining their weight, I'd wager the vast majority will tell you that they didn't just jump in and do a 180 overnight...most people who've had long term success have started small and made changes along the way and evolved. TBH I don't really know anyone who just did a 180 overnight and had any kind of long term success...I'm sure they're out there, but I'd say they are the exception, not the rule.
A lot of this...most of this is developing new and healthy habits, and that doesn't happen overnight...it's a progression over time.9 -
I eat what I want in moderation while logging everything. When I do that I succeed. I lost 70lbs a few years ago. But like you but to a much greater extenet, I stopped logging and went off the rails. I gained it all back and then some. I tried other means, but realized that counting and logging faithfully is the ONLY way *I* can lose weight. Fad diets/trends don't work. It seems that you're getting in your own way with thinking that carbs are bad. They aren't the enemy they are in all fruits and veggies. Pick a platform (I suggest this one.) balance your calories and don't do extremes either way.5
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KristaMac88 wrote: »I guess im going to have to ban it from the house and go through withdrawals and kick the biggest problem first. Then work on actually counting cals and portion sizes and cutting stuff out from there. I find ive been off the rails for so long that jumping right back in I last half a day and get frustrated trying to count and measure everything then go over with stuff i didnt realize was that much and just quit. I admire people who just decide one day they are going to do it, and stick with it until their goal is reached. No matter how prego and bloated I look, or gross i feel, or mad my clothes dont fit, as soon as temptation is around - i give in. then feel bad. Swear thats it, starting again the next day and sticking to it...might make it through a day or two. Then give in again..for an entire weekend..lol
People who succeed are not perfect. I was hardly ever 100% on plan. I just didn't get down on myself for not being perfect and I didn't quit. It took me a long time to lose 20 lbs, but there was literally no drama. I just kept practicing healthy habits - pre-logging and weighing all my food, stocking the house with foods I could eat with control, becoming more active even if it was just a long walk - and created a lifestyle over several years that I'll benefit from for the rest of my life. The fact that I see it as a process that will be ongoing for the rest of my life means that one day where I have 3 slices of pizza instead of 2, or one weekend where I skip my workouts, is just not a big deal. I have YEARS left to get this right.10 -
Very true! Thank you all!1
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cwolfman13 wrote: »KristaMac88 wrote: »I guess im going to have to ban it from the house and go through withdrawals and kick the biggest problem first. Then work on actually counting cals and portion sizes and cutting stuff out from there. I find ive been off the rails for so long that jumping right back in I last half a day and get frustrated trying to count and measure everything then go over with stuff i didnt realize was that much and just quit. I admire people who just decide one day they are going to do it, and stick with it until their goal is reached. No matter how prego and bloated I look, or gross i feel, or mad my clothes dont fit, as soon as temptation is around - i give in. then feel bad. Swear thats it, starting again the next day and sticking to it...might make it through a day or two. Then give in again..for an entire weekend..lol
If you asked the people who who have had the most success, not only losing weight, but keeping it off and maintaining their weight, I'd wager the vast majority will tell you that they didn't just jump in and do a 180 overnight...most people who've had long term success have started small and made changes along the way and evolved. TBH I don't really know anyone who just did a 180 overnight and had any kind of long term success...I'm sure they're out there, but I'd say they are the exception, not the rule.
A lot of this...most of this is developing new and healthy habits, and that doesn't happen overnight...it's a progression over time.
I can vouch for this. I lost 50 lbs about 7 or 8 years ago now. I started by incorporating exercise (tang soo do & jujisu), lost 20 lbs and than added MFP to concentrate on fitness. Since that point, I lost another 30 lbs. And I kept it all off (within a 5-7 lb range) since than. Now, I have converted to Keto as an experiment to myself (and my wife who has some PCOS issues) to see if that helps with vanity weight. There have been pro's and con's to this diet for me.
Pro's
1. It aligns, for the most part, to my typical way of eating (meat, cheese, eggs, fish)
2. It helped me increase my consumption of fish
3. It helped me explore more food variety (this is big as I am a huge cook)
4. It helped reduce and/or eliminate unhealthy food issues (when I am stressed, I used to binge on sugar.... like 600 calories worth of Mike N Ike's, Skittles, or whatever fruity treats). Ironically, my taste have changed and I prefer salty foods now.
5. It helped me focus on more nutrient dense foods
6. Ironically, it has satiated me more than expected. Considering I am volume eater, I have been surprised how it has satiated me after an introduction period. It's possible the reduction in carbs helped, but I attribute this a bit more to my protein numbers are naturally higher
Con's
1. Lost strength in the gym (can't emphasize this enough). And if anyone wants to challenge this, I would wage if you take any keto/fat adapted person and have them carb load prior to a lifting session, they will see the biggest strength gains
2. I love fruit. So on keto, it's severely minimized (during the summer, I will probably transition to a higher carb diet to accommodate this)
3. You need to prepare food more often as it's difficult to go out to restaurants
4. Even with adding crazy amounts of sodium and eating foods high in potassium/magnesium, I still need to supplement magnesium to prevent cramping
Other observations
1. I don't get some big mental clarity boost. I suspect that is more tied to this with autoimmune disorders
2. I don't get huge improvements to energy. Again, I ate quality carbs when I was consuming 300-400g/day, so my energy was always constant
3. I don't test or plan on testing for ketones, so I am not really sure that I am in ketosis. But I don't really care, I am only care if I lose weight
Ultimately, a person should eat in a way that is sustainable. If that is keto, great. If not, play around with food combinations and macros until you find it. If you want this to be sustainable, you need to work on ways to make it sustainable long term. And that doesnt' mean you have to stick to one style of eating for a long period of time.8 -
I count both carbs and calories. I count the carbs because i am diabetic and I count calories because in order for me to loose weight i need to be in a calorie deficit. If you feel better on low carb go that way if you feel just fine only counting calories that is just fine too. Try not to allow food to give you negative feelings.5
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KristaMac88 wrote: »I guess im going to have to ban it from the house and go through withdrawals and kick the biggest problem first. Then work on actually counting cals and portion sizes and cutting stuff out from there. I find ive been off the rails for so long that jumping right back in I last half a day and get frustrated trying to count and measure everything then go over with stuff i didnt realize was that much and just quit. I admire people who just decide one day they are going to do it, and stick with it until their goal is reached. No matter how prego and bloated I look, or gross i feel, or mad my clothes dont fit, as soon as temptation is around - i give in. then feel bad. Swear thats it, starting again the next day and sticking to it...might make it through a day or two. Then give in again..for an entire weekend..lol
Find something healthier to substitute for the candy and other stuff you object to.
For me, the two most successful sweet substitutes are Sweet Red/Orange/Yellow Peppers and Dried Dates.
The best candy bar alternative is a dried date stuffed with cashew butter.
At least that way you are getting a more natural unrefined form of sugar that your body can use more effectively.
weighing and logging food is the real trick to what worked for me. I know that 6 dates = 140 calories, and if I add 2 tbs of cashew butter that snack just jumped to 310 calories. Which is so close to a meal's worth of calories that I have to log it so I don't overeat for the day.
good luck to you!2 -
I eat everything I want and definitely don't cut out carbs - I love them. They are calorie expensive though so on carborific days I do extra exercise. There was a while I did some carb cycling with my training which was interesting but as others have mentioned, it's about a calorie deficit and you can boost your daily budget with exercise. For me it's about portion control and supplementing with exercise that allows me to still eat all the types of food I like, even though I definitely don't eat it in the same quantities that I used to. I think my stomach has shrunk though because I do fill up more quickly these days given how big my portions used to be ...2
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I personally think that a very restrictive diet with a painful entry is almost certain to fail in the long run. I find a small deficit easy to maintain over time. I make sure i eat enough protein and left everything else fall into place. who wants to be 'cheating' to share a meal with their spouse involving wine etc. a lifestyle that i can sustain in the long term will give me long term results. a restrictive diet will simply result in rebound overeating and throwing in the towel
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Food is food. It isn't bad or good. You eat too much of it you gain weight. It's as simple as that. Individual foods can't cause weight gain without the context of what else and how much you eat of all foods over a period of time. High calorie foods are not bad, they just need to be more carefully considered to fit into your calorie budget.
Individual foods also can't cause nutrient intake issues without the context of what else and how much you eat of all foods over a period of time. Foods that are less nutrient dense are not bad, they just need to be balanced by more nutritious foods.
I personally don't cut carbs because I'm not diabetic and don't ban anything because it's unnecessary for me. I have lost 140 lbs and maintaining doing it that way, eating all kinds of carbs. For example, today I had a meal that had fish (protein+a little fat), roasted and fresh vegetables (fiber+carbs+a little fat), lentils (carbs+protein+fiber), cookies (carbs+fat). The cookies were not bad because they fit into my desired calorie range and they don't really cancel all the nutrition I got from the meal.5 -
Thank you all! I guess i need to get out of the habit of focusing on carbs first. About a year ago my blood pressure was quite high. I did a dirty keto version and lost 15lbs and cut out all the junk food and my next dr. visit my blood pressure was good. The time after that, after falling off track again, it was back up. and has been up ever since. He started me on half a water pill per day, and last night was told it wasnt working so he started me on a low dose of actual blood pressure medication. I KNOW if i can get a handle on this and stick to it and fight past the sugar crashes and lose some damn weight it will go back down again on its own!3
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KristaMac88 wrote: »Thank you all! I guess i need to get out of the habit of focusing on carbs first. About a year ago my blood pressure was quite high. I did a dirty keto version and lost 15lbs and cut out all the junk food and my next dr. visit my blood pressure was good. The time after that, after falling off track again, it was back up. and has been up ever since. He started me on half a water pill per day, and last night was told it wasnt working so he started me on a low dose of actual blood pressure medication. I KNOW if i can get a handle on this and stick to it and fight past the sugar crashes and lose some damn weight it will go back down again on its own!
You can go to your settings and take carbohydrates off the "nutrients tracked" list so you're no longer seeing them in the default view. Hiding your carb intake may help stop the unnecessary focus on carbs.4 -
Thats true! I wish you could change your calorie amount to instead of using the typical 1200 they give you. It doesnt seem like enough to me without causing a big drop or change in food at once instead of easing into it and not being hungry at the end of the night. Or going over and feeling like you failed for the day.1
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KristaMac88 wrote: »Thats true! I wish you could change your calorie amount to instead of using the typical 1200 they give you. It doesnt seem like enough to me without causing a big drop or change in food at once instead of easing into it and not being hungry at the end of the night. Or going over and feeling like you failed for the day.
It only gives you 1200 because of the settings you chose. How much weight in total do you need to lose and how many pounds per week did you set yourself to? If you go slower, you can eat more. If you chose 2 lbs per week, that is really only practical for larger folks with a lot of weight to lose.3 -
KristaMac88 wrote: »Thats true! I wish you could change your calorie amount to instead of using the typical 1200 they give you. It doesnt seem like enough to me without causing a big drop or change in food at once instead of easing into it and not being hungry at the end of the night. Or going over and feeling like you failed for the day.
MFP gives you the ability to enter a custom calorie amount. You don't have to use their numbers. But the numbers they give you are based on the information that you give it. You told MFP how much you wanted to lose and how active you were, and it gave you that goal based on your stats. You are also supposed to eat back your exercise calories in addition to it.2 -
amusedmonkey wrote: »Food is food. It isn't bad or good. You eat too much of it you gain weight. It's as simple as that. Individual foods can't cause weight gain without the context of what else and how much you eat of all foods over a period of time. High calorie foods are not bad, they just need to be more carefully considered to fit into your calorie budget.
Individual foods also can't cause nutrient intake issues without the context of what else and how much you eat of all foods over a period of time. Foods that are less nutrient dense are not bad, they just need to be balanced by more nutritious foods.
I personally don't cut carbs because I'm not diabetic and don't ban anything because it's unnecessary for me. I have lost 140 lbs and maintaining doing it that way, eating all kinds of carbs. For example, today I had a meal that had fish (protein+a little fat), roasted and fresh vegetables (fiber+carbs+a little fat), lentils (carbs+protein+fiber), cookies (carbs+fat). The cookies were not bad because they fit into my desired calorie range and they don't really cancel all the nutrition I got from the meal.
YEEEESSSSSS!!!!!!!1 -
KristaMac88 wrote: »Thats true! I wish you could change your calorie amount to instead of using the typical 1200 they give you. It doesnt seem like enough to me without causing a big drop or change in food at once instead of easing into it and not being hungry at the end of the night. Or going over and feeling like you failed for the day.
The app doesn't just give you 1200 calories. It uses a formula to determine how many calories to give you, and the vast majority of people who get 1200 entered an overly aggressive pace of weight loss for their stats. If you choose a slower, and likely more reasonable pace of weight loss, you will get more calories to eat. What are your height, current weight, and goal weight?2
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