Insulin and high GI carbs

PWHF

During my cut I followed a slow carb (Tim Ferris) diet to avoid insulin spikes. I'm wondering if that is not helpful for bulking - I looked up insulin and bulking and got a load of stuff about how bodybuilders abuse insulin which kind of makes me think that avoiding insulin spikes (to try and minimise fat gain) is unhelpful for making gains.

Obviously I'm not looking to abuse anything but I'm wondering if cutting out insulin spiking foods like sugar/dairy/fruit etc is hampering progress? I know in the 4H body he talks about 'Occam's Protocol' where some higher GI carbs are allowed for bulking but I'm keen to make this bulk as effective as possible but not a dirty bulk...

High GI carbs and normal (not restrictive) insulin spikes OK?

psuLemon

Why are you are to "spike" insulin. Its seems like an over dramatization from the low carb or keto community. People with a function pancreas don't really have to worry about this.

If anything would hamper your progress, its a poorly designed lifting program, low protein or inconsistency. Heck, you can keto bulk with TKD.

If you are looking to major in the minors; then time some fast acting sugars around your workout or a preworkout meal, spread protein throughout the day, and get adequate rest.

PWHF

I'm not looking to spike insulin or do anything out of the ordinary. I've been cutting all year on a 'slow carb' (4 Hour Body - Tim Ferris) diet. I'm still a bit in that mindset and sticking to lower GI carbs and avoiding sugar/fruit/dairy. I'm wondering if this will hamper a bulk.

psuLemon

PWHF wrote: »

I'm not looking to spike insulin or do anything out of the ordinary. I've been cutting all year on a 'slow carb' (4 Hour Body - Tim Ferris) diet. I'm still a bit in that mindset and sticking to lower GI carbs and avoiding sugar/fruit/dairy. I'm wondering if this will hamper a bulk.

There is pretty good evidence on the benefits of dairy and muscle. And fruit can be highly beneficial for nutrients. Will is hamper results? Probably not.

MikePTY

Unless you have a medical condition such as diabetes that requires you to control your insulin levels, there is no need need to control it for weight loss or muscle growth.

jdog022

It’s incredible how the “industry” has taken a medical condition like diabetes and twisted and turned it into this nonsense.

I for one am tired about insulin being blamed for fat gain when it’s a perfectly natural response to shuttle nutrients to there respective places

sijomial

Weren't you the chap who thought working out fasted and then fasting for six hours after training was a good idea while bulking?

https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10765344/please-help-with-this-argument-intermittent-fasting-related/p10

You seem to be all over the place and making everything extraordinarily complicated.

Do a little research into the size of an average man's glycogen stores and you might come to the conclusion that the type of carbs you eat and their speed of absorbtion needs to be put in a different perspective.

mmapags

jdog022 wrote: »

It’s incredible how the “industry” has taken a medical condition like diabetes and twisted and turned it into this nonsense.

I for one am tired about insulin being blamed for fat gain when it’s a perfectly natural response to shuttle nutrients to there respective places

I can not possibly agree more. It's gotten ridiculous where people feel like they need to manipulate a perfectly healthy and, truly, necessary process. So silly!!

Without insulin, you get no nutrients into cells and you die. Also, no one eats just fast carbs in isolation the majority of the time (endurance athletes being the exception). Food intake needs to be viewed in its entirety. Typically, people eat carbs (fast or slow) along with some protein and or fat. This changes the whole glycemic thing to the glycemic index of the entire meal.

Majoring in the minors...

PWHF

Guys....

Very simple question - I'll ask it again:

Does sticking to slower release/low GI carbs and avoiding insulin spikes (as per Tim Ferris' 4 hour body and 'Occam's protocol') negatively affect gains while bulking?

Yes or no?

@sijomial -yes I am following Kinobody GGP program which involves IF. It's working very well

sijomial

Yes, no, or an irrelevance would be a better question assuming you have a healthy pancreas.
Avoiding "spikes" (why spikes not rise which is the perfectly normal and healthy response to feeding?) my answer would be a total irrelevance.

If the question is the bigger one around proper nutrition around your workout your routine would be a definite no vote to imposing fasting on yourself. If you are looking for the final few percentage points then eating properly before and after a workout is worth considering and fasting doesn't do that. There's nothing anabolic about not eating.

psuLemon

OP, you are much better off evaluating your lifting program. And if you want to maximize the 1%, do 30g of high GI carbs 30min before a workout.

PWHF

sijomial wrote: »

Yes, no, or an irrelevance would be a better question assuming you have a healthy pancreas.
Avoiding "spikes" (why spikes not rise which is the perfectly normal and healthy response to feeding?) my answer would be a total irrelevance.

If the question is the bigger one around proper nutrition around your workout your routine would be a definite no vote to imposing fasting on yourself. If you are looking for the final few percentage points then eating properly before and after a workout is worth considering and fasting doesn't do that. There's nothing anabolic about not eating.

Thanks for the response. The fasting thing is something I'm going to continue to do and not debate it on here any more, it's a way of life for me and I like the way it makes me feel. It's not the topic of this thread or my question.

I think the upshot is that I'm not going to restrict white starchy carbs, fruit and dairy like I was on the cut. I think I'm still switching from cut to bulk in my mind and after 9 months of cutting the idea of putting on fat is something I'm still looking to accept.

I appreciate the knowledge and help of everyone on here

jdog022

PWHF wrote: »

Guys....

Very simple question - I'll ask it again:

Does sticking to slower release/low GI carbs and avoiding insulin spikes (as per Tim Ferris' 4 hour body and 'Occam's protocol') negatively affect gains while bulking?

Yes or no?

@sijomial -yes I am following Kinobody GGP program which involves IF. It's working very well

If you were trying to get that .0000000001 percent advantage to win mr Olympia vs second place well maybe . But no

sardelsa

I personally love my candy pre-and intra workout. I find it helps with my workout performance (both cutting and bulking). Does it directly help build muscle? I don't know about that... but if I feel better and perform better that is my aim then indirectly I would say it does. I eat everything cutting and bulking... bread, pasta, dairy, fruit, candy, chocolate, cake etc... and I very successfully build and lean out according to my goals many times over.

Try not to major in the minors, worrying about what to eat what not to eat. The main factors for limiting fat gain during a bulk will be slower rate of gain, proper workout programming, adequate protein and starting off fairly lean.

If you are happy with your progress so far, you are following a proper progressive program, you are nailing your workouts... then I wouldn't worry about what carbs you eat provided you are getting adequate nutrition and protein. Keep in mind those high energy carbs could definitely help you with your workouts and allow you to get more food in while you are bulking. But maybe they might make you feel sluggish. Only one way to find out what works best for you.

watts6151

Everything you really need to know for
Eating and workout timing

https://youtu.be/rJSQyTK8ZVE