Reps in Reserve
84creative
Posts: 128 Member
I came across the term reps in reserve recently after listening to a Mike Israetel podcast.
I started my mesocycle off with 3RIR per set, increasing weight to drop down to 2RIR in week 2, then 1RIR in week 3 and 0RIR for week 4, whilst maintaining the same number of reps per set each week.
Unlike the templates I’ve seen from Mike (on Instagram), I’m not a adding sets each week. Looks like Mike advocates starting at your minimum effective set volume (MEV) and adding sets each week until you reach the maximum number of sets you’re able to recover from (MRV).
I believe this volume style training is best for Advanced Bodybuilders so as I’m a beginner (less than a year of consecutive training) I’m hoping I can continue to make gains with 10 sets for chest/back and 8 sets for Triceps/biceps.
Anyone else using the same RIR structure with fixed sets across their mesocycles and getting good results?
I started my mesocycle off with 3RIR per set, increasing weight to drop down to 2RIR in week 2, then 1RIR in week 3 and 0RIR for week 4, whilst maintaining the same number of reps per set each week.
Unlike the templates I’ve seen from Mike (on Instagram), I’m not a adding sets each week. Looks like Mike advocates starting at your minimum effective set volume (MEV) and adding sets each week until you reach the maximum number of sets you’re able to recover from (MRV).
I believe this volume style training is best for Advanced Bodybuilders so as I’m a beginner (less than a year of consecutive training) I’m hoping I can continue to make gains with 10 sets for chest/back and 8 sets for Triceps/biceps.
Anyone else using the same RIR structure with fixed sets across their mesocycles and getting good results?
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Replies
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Basically RPE but A more bald more mike version
RPE 7
Vs
RIR 32 -
@heytimsla RPE and RIR are both completely new concepts to me.
Back in 2008 when I had a 6 month gym membership I did 12 sets per bodypart, taking all sets to failure with 2:40 to 3 minutes of rest in between.
In 2007 with the same 6 month membership I was doing the same but using Pyramid sets. Usually ended up with reps of 16, 12, 8, 4 reps per exercise.
Now I’m incorporating RIR and using the same number of sets and reps each workout but reducing RIR by increasing the load each week.
Feels very unusual compared to the training I did for those short periods 10 yeas ago.0 -
I only found out 18 weeks ago that my old routine is now called a Bro Split (Chest, Back, Legs, rest, arms, rest, rest).0
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I use rpe. Same concept as rir. Programming is by Eric helms.4
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I utilize RPE for training and coaching for the past few years. RPE was brought and molded into powerlifting training by Mike Tuscherer who I had the pleasure to meet last week at Raw Nationals.
More and more people are utilizing it for training and programming because of the friendliness of communication between coach and athlete. It is also very useful for auto regulation.
I've utilized adding a set of varied intensity be it full or back off for a few years now and totally agree with it in the majority of cases be it for strength, hypertrophy, or the combination. It just takes practice and a good eye for recovery.2 -
I utilize RPE for training and coaching for the past few years. RPE was brought and molded into powerlifting training by Mike Tuscherer who I had the pleasure to meet last week at Raw Nationals.
More and more people are utilizing it for training and programming because of the friendliness of communication between coach and athlete. It is also very useful for auto regulation.
I've utilized adding a set of varied intensity be it full or back off for a few years now and totally agree with it in the majority of cases be it for strength, hypertrophy, or the combination. It just takes practice and a good eye for recovery.
You did?!!? Awesome!
To the OP, I also work RPE.1 -
quiksylver296 wrote: »I utilize RPE for training and coaching for the past few years. RPE was brought and molded into powerlifting training by Mike Tuscherer who I had the pleasure to meet last week at Raw Nationals.
More and more people are utilizing it for training and programming because of the friendliness of communication between coach and athlete. It is also very useful for auto regulation.
I've utilized adding a set of varied intensity be it full or back off for a few years now and totally agree with it in the majority of cases be it for strength, hypertrophy, or the combination. It just takes practice and a good eye for recovery.
You did?!!? Awesome!
To the OP, I also work RPE.
Yeah he/his crew and I were dodging each other within the mayhem of that warm up room. I was surprised a couple other lifters recognized me as well.
I was sitting next to Mike when Ryan Stills came up and they began talking shop. That was not expected.1 -
I also use RPE scales and only train to an RPE of 9 the week before a deload. Then I start over and build week by week back to 9 , maybe over 8 weeks, with hopefully more weight but same RPE. Training to failure all the time repeatedly for 3 ish years got me injured and once severely which required surgery this summer1
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quiksylver296 wrote: »I utilize RPE for training and coaching for the past few years. RPE was brought and molded into powerlifting training by Mike Tuscherer who I had the pleasure to meet last week at Raw Nationals.
More and more people are utilizing it for training and programming because of the friendliness of communication between coach and athlete. It is also very useful for auto regulation.
I've utilized adding a set of varied intensity be it full or back off for a few years now and totally agree with it in the majority of cases be it for strength, hypertrophy, or the combination. It just takes practice and a good eye for recovery.
You did?!!? Awesome!
To the OP, I also work RPE.
Off topic,
When are you two going to post your videos?
Respectful eyes want to see.
Cheers, h.1 -
Great feedback! 10 years ago I would have never considered stopping reps short of failure but I’m enjoying the RIR concept which sounds exactly like RPE and it sounds like RPE is more coming that I imagined.0
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middlehaitch wrote: »quiksylver296 wrote: »I utilize RPE for training and coaching for the past few years. RPE was brought and molded into powerlifting training by Mike Tuscherer who I had the pleasure to meet last week at Raw Nationals.
More and more people are utilizing it for training and programming because of the friendliness of communication between coach and athlete. It is also very useful for auto regulation.
I've utilized adding a set of varied intensity be it full or back off for a few years now and totally agree with it in the majority of cases be it for strength, hypertrophy, or the combination. It just takes practice and a good eye for recovery.
You did?!!? Awesome!
To the OP, I also work RPE.
Off topic,
When are you two going to post your videos?
Respectful eyes want to see.
Cheers, h.
Off topic again
@middlehaitch, I tried to save my videos to Youtube to share. Something went wrong and I lost them all.
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What do you guys think of Jeff Cavalier’s recommendations? (AthleanX).
I’m pretty sure he mentions taking sets to failure often for hypertrophy.0 -
However I’ve not seen any of his training programs just his YouTube videos.0
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I'm a big fan of Dr Mike I and Eric Helms. Like some here I would never have contemplated stopping short of failure by 3 or 4 reps but it does work. I'm not sure it's just for advanced lifters though. If it works, why would you not adopt it as early in your lifting as you can. That would maximise newbie gains too. The over-riding factor in this game is to do what works for you so it's worth spending time figuring out what that is. The other guys I'm a fan of are the team at Revive Stronger aka Steve Hall and Pascal Flor. There's a really good podcast of theirs with Dr Mike and Jordan Peters discussing RIR and training to failure:
https://revivestronger.com/podcast-165-jordan-peters-mike-israetel-reps-in-reserve/0 -
84creative wrote: »What do you guys think of Jeff Cavalier’s recommendations? (AthleanX).
I’m pretty sure he mentions taking sets to failure often for hypertrophy.
Jeff has some great content, and lots of it, but I prefer more "science-y" guys like Nuckols, Helms, Trexler, Nippard.
As far as training to failure, I think the consensus, from what I read, is that you can accomplish the same thing going to RPE 7 or 8 so why go to failure? The only reason to go to failure is to make sure you are really training at the RPE you think you are. This is especially true for folks new to resistance training who may not be good at judging RPE for themselves. And the other reason to avoid going to failure is the increased risk of injury. It's not a big deal on accessory lifts like bicep curls, or tricep push-downs, for example, but getting close to failure on big compound lifts like dead lifts and squats is pretty high risk for injury, again, especially for us non-pros.1 -
I'm a big fan of Dr Mike I and Eric Helms. Like some here I would never have contemplated stopping short of failure by 3 or 4 reps but it does work. I'm not sure it's just for advanced lifters though. If it works, why would you not adopt it as early in your lifting as you can. That would maximise newbie gains too. The over-riding factor in this game is to do what works for you so it's worth spending time figuring out what that is. The other guys I'm a fan of are the team at Revive Stronger aka Steve Hall and Pascal Flor. There's a really good podcast of theirs with Dr Mike and Jordan Peters discussing RIR and training to failure:
https://revivestronger.com/podcast-165-jordan-peters-mike-israetel-reps-in-reserve/
I’ve been hammering podcasts by these guys. I came across RIR in July which is the same time I found the Revive Stronger podcasts. Also came across Eric Helms when watching a Jeff Nippard podcast. The odd one out seemed to be Jeff Cavalier but I’ve been working with RIR for 18 weeks now and seem to be making good progress.
I curled 20.5kg dumbbells for 6 reps (1RIR) and Dumbbell floor pressed 36.5kg for 10 reps (1RIR) this week. Next week I’m going to match the reps with 38kg (0RIR).
My next mesocycle start off with 3RIR in the 10 to 20 rep range. 10 sets for chest and 8 sets for bi’s/tri’s.
Hoping to get past 15 and a half inches by the end of next month.0 -
@GaryRuns this is exactly the same conclusion I came to. At 35 I definitely don’t want to knacker myself out so I’m happy only going to failure every 4 weeks to see if my RIRs are correct. So far They’re spot on.1
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84creative wrote: »@GaryRuns this is exactly the same conclusion I came to. At 35 I definitely don’t want to knacker myself out so I’m happy only going to failure every 4 weeks to see if my RIRs are correct. So far They’re spot on.
In what I've read and listened to from Dr. Mike, the key thing is that going to failure increases fatigue and need to recovery exponentially (his word not mine) and impacts volume that drives hypertrophy. Leaving a couple in the take allows for greater training frequency and thus volume, the key driver of hypertrophy.1 -
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84creative wrote: »@GaryRuns this is exactly the same conclusion I came to. At 35 I definitely don’t want to knacker myself out so I’m happy only going to failure every 4 weeks to see if my RIRs are correct. So far They’re spot on.
In what I've read and listened to from Dr. Mike, the key thing is that going to failure increases fatigue and need to recovery exponentially (his word not mine) and impacts volume that drives hypertrophy. Leaving a couple in the take allows for greater training frequency and thus volume, the key driver of hypertrophy.
Mike also says not going to failure potentially leaves gains on the table, there’s a time and place for failure, tbh honest most small muscle groups can be taken to failure quite Often because they recover so quickly, side delts, biceps etc3 -
84creative wrote: »@GaryRuns this is exactly the same conclusion I came to. At 35 I definitely don’t want to knacker myself out so I’m happy only going to failure every 4 weeks to see if my RIRs are correct. So far They’re spot on.
In what I've read and listened to from Dr. Mike, the key thing is that going to failure increases fatigue and need to recovery exponentially (his word not mine) and impacts volume that drives hypertrophy. Leaving a couple in the take allows for greater training frequency and thus volume, the key driver of hypertrophy.
Mike also says not going to failure potentially leaves gains on the table, there’s a time and place for failure, tbh honest most small muscle groups can be taken to failure quite Often because they recover so quickly, side delts, biceps etc
I concur.
For hypertrophy response which is typically done with higher reps lower intensity I typically program RPE 9. This "can" be done with lower reps just the same, but recovery might be an issue for some people.
What we want is full recruitment of the muscle motors. To achieve that we have to get near failure. I usually do this with the smaller muscles that recovery faster as well as lean towards isolation lifts.
So you might see me program curls in this way but not squats typically. With intensity of 40lbs of the curls versus 405 lbs of a squat we can see the obvious recovery difference when we go near failure of any rep scheme.
Like mentioned previously this is for hypertrophy of more accessory lifts variety. I wouldn't necessarily program it for a main lift that involves many large muscle groups that leans greatly towards the strength trainging of the spectrum.
There is a time and place for near failure if programmed intelligently.1 -
@Chieflrg Thanks for the advice. I’m inclined to try a 4 week mesocycle were I take the second workout to failure each week for smaller muscle groups/ isolation exercises.
First workout will be in the 10 to 15 rep range and second 15 to 20. So 4 sets for biceps on Wednesday and 4 sets for biceps on Friday. I can always see how that goes compared to this microcycle.0 -
3/2/1 reps over the meso cycle/weeks makes so much sense to me.. I love everything about this kind of training..0
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Lolalikeslolagets wrote: »3/2/1 reps over the meso cycle/weeks makes so much sense to me.. I love everything about this kind of training..
I’m enjoying the feel of it too. Keeping reps the same and increasing the load each week to bring my RIRs down. Feels great.1
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