Struggling with Sugar
Replies
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I think we all have those foods that are hard to limit. I agree that too few calories can set us up to snack on foods we want to limit. I have a problem with sugar. I lost 74 lbs three years ago. I handled it better then. Lately, I’ve avoided it because it just makes me want more. Hopefully, I’ll get back to the point that I can have some, but I try to up the fats and the protein and stay full. Also, eating at 12, 2 or 2:30, and 5 seem to be helping me avoid the snacks for now.3
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cmriverside wrote: »psychod787 wrote: »cmriverside wrote: »I'm with you, @springlering62, and have the same problem(s) but this forum is just not friendly to food addiction.
I think after spending a lot of time dealing with this I had to accept that just like alcoholism, people who don't have this problem tend to say, "Just don't drink. Just have one. Just have a small piece of chocolate every day. Why can't you have one beer and stop? Try having a small bowl of ice cream."
As if.
They don't understand because it is not their biological experience. They are able to stop.
@cmriverside , I completely understand having trouble moderating certain foods. Funyun/Chips are one of mine. I fully abstain. I also state that many foods, especially those with high carb/fat combinations can use the same reward pathways as certain chemicals of addiction. Not just food, shopping, hell, even exercise can cause addictive like behaviors, but to call ones self addicted is hard for me to say. While ice cream may cause reward centers in my brain to light up, I won't go into a seizure, poop myself, and possibly die if I don't get it. While no expert in addiction, I have been a nurse for well over 100 people detoxing from alcohol and drugs.
**edit** interesting blog here.... http://www.stephanguyenet.com/why-are-some-people-carboholics/
And yet, that is exactly the conclusion of Guyenet's article...
to fat and carb combinations. I have little doubt that those foods play on the reward centers and makes not in-taking them hard to control, hence addictive like properties. I have even seen people have pseudo withdraw symptoms from them, but it is not the same as drugs or alcohol. It's that grey area that's hard for me to say what is, but addicted to straight sugar..... not IMHO... A side note, yes, one CAN binge on fruit. Hell, I did it. Ate an entire 3lb bag of fresh peaches. The day before I ate 3lbs of plain broccoli raw! I was 175lbs at sub 10% bf, after maintaining a 225lbs weight loss for nearly 2 years. Not a great place...... OP I suggest a couple of things. First, have a clean food environment. If you don't have it in the house, its harder to eat. Creates an effort barrier. Second, avoid certain isle at the super market that have problem foods in them. Reduces visual ques. Third, there is no shame in not eating certain things because you can't moderate them. I am all for flexible dieting, but if its going to trigger a binge, just avoid it. If you don't want to abstain, go out for it. If you get a single serving from a shop, its less likely you will go back for more..... JMHO Best of luck and congrats on the weight loss!6 -
psychod787 wrote: »cmriverside wrote: »psychod787 wrote: »cmriverside wrote: »I'm with you, @springlering62, and have the same problem(s) but this forum is just not friendly to food addiction.
I think after spending a lot of time dealing with this I had to accept that just like alcoholism, people who don't have this problem tend to say, "Just don't drink. Just have one. Just have a small piece of chocolate every day. Why can't you have one beer and stop? Try having a small bowl of ice cream."
As if.
They don't understand because it is not their biological experience. They are able to stop.
@cmriverside , I completely understand having trouble moderating certain foods. Funyun/Chips are one of mine. I fully abstain. I also state that many foods, especially those with high carb/fat combinations can use the same reward pathways as certain chemicals of addiction. Not just food, shopping, hell, even exercise can cause addictive like behaviors, but to call ones self addicted is hard for me to say. While ice cream may cause reward centers in my brain to light up, I won't go into a seizure, poop myself, and possibly die if I don't get it. While no expert in addiction, I have been a nurse for well over 100 people detoxing from alcohol and drugs.
**edit** interesting blog here.... http://www.stephanguyenet.com/why-are-some-people-carboholics/
And yet, that is exactly the conclusion of Guyenet's article...
to fat and carb combinations. I have little doubt that those foods play on the reward centers and makes not in-taking them hard to control, hence addictive like properties. I have even seen people have pseudo withdraw symptoms from them, but it is not the same as drugs or alcohol. It's that grey area that's hard for me to say what is, but addicted to straight sugar..... not IMHO... A side note, yes, one CAN binge on fruit. Hell, I did it. Ate an entire 3lb bag of fresh peaches. The day before I ate 3lbs of plain broccoli raw! I was 175lbs at sub 10% bf, after maintaining a 225lbs weight loss for nearly 2 years. Not a great place...... OP I suggest a couple of things. First, have a clean food environment. If you don't have it in the house, its harder to eat. Creates an effort barrier. Second, avoid certain isle at the super market that have problem foods in them. Reduces visual ques. Third, there is no shame in not eating certain things because you can't moderate them. I am all for flexible dieting, but if its going to trigger a binge, just avoid it. If you don't want to abstain, go out for it. If you get a single serving from a shop, its less likely you will go back for more..... JMHO Best of luck and congrats on the weight loss!
**edit** Most of the people I have seen talk about sugar "addiction" were not talking about having issues with Sweet Tarts or Pixie Stix. Maybe there are some who do, but most talk about brownies, cookies, pie, ice cream, ect.... Fat and sugar combinations.....10 -
psychod787 wrote: »psychod787 wrote: »cmriverside wrote: »psychod787 wrote: »cmriverside wrote: »I'm with you, @springlering62, and have the same problem(s) but this forum is just not friendly to food addiction.
I think after spending a lot of time dealing with this I had to accept that just like alcoholism, people who don't have this problem tend to say, "Just don't drink. Just have one. Just have a small piece of chocolate every day. Why can't you have one beer and stop? Try having a small bowl of ice cream."
As if.
They don't understand because it is not their biological experience. They are able to stop.
@cmriverside , I completely understand having trouble moderating certain foods. Funyun/Chips are one of mine. I fully abstain. I also state that many foods, especially those with high carb/fat combinations can use the same reward pathways as certain chemicals of addiction. Not just food, shopping, hell, even exercise can cause addictive like behaviors, but to call ones self addicted is hard for me to say. While ice cream may cause reward centers in my brain to light up, I won't go into a seizure, poop myself, and possibly die if I don't get it. While no expert in addiction, I have been a nurse for well over 100 people detoxing from alcohol and drugs.
**edit** interesting blog here.... http://www.stephanguyenet.com/why-are-some-people-carboholics/
And yet, that is exactly the conclusion of Guyenet's article...
to fat and carb combinations. I have little doubt that those foods play on the reward centers and makes not in-taking them hard to control, hence addictive like properties. I have even seen people have pseudo withdraw symptoms from them, but it is not the same as drugs or alcohol. It's that grey area that's hard for me to say what is, but addicted to straight sugar..... not IMHO... A side note, yes, one CAN binge on fruit. Hell, I did it. Ate an entire 3lb bag of fresh peaches. The day before I ate 3lbs of plain broccoli raw! I was 175lbs at sub 10% bf, after maintaining a 225lbs weight loss for nearly 2 years. Not a great place...... OP I suggest a couple of things. First, have a clean food environment. If you don't have it in the house, its harder to eat. Creates an effort barrier. Second, avoid certain isle at the super market that have problem foods in them. Reduces visual ques. Third, there is no shame in not eating certain things because you can't moderate them. I am all for flexible dieting, but if its going to trigger a binge, just avoid it. If you don't want to abstain, go out for it. If you get a single serving from a shop, its less likely you will go back for more..... JMHO Best of luck and congrats on the weight loss!
**edit** Most of the people I have seen talk about sugar "addiction" were not talking about having issues with Sweet Tarts or Pixie Stix. Maybe there are some who do, but most talk about brownies, cookies, pie, ice cream, ect.... Fat and sugar combinations.....
I'm not going to continue to argue with you because I *think* we agree on this, HOWEVER, there is a paragraph or two near the end of Guyenet's article that says some people do have a problem with specifically sweets without the fat content. Guyenet's article is in response to Taubes saying it's not aliens, it's insulin. So Guyenet speculates that Taubes may be one of those people and concedes that there may be a lot of those type people.
I just think it's wrong to discount someone's experience or invalidate their claims that they can't moderate sugary things.
That is the entirety of my argument. Always has been. Exactly what ksharma2001's meme pointed out.
As an aside:
I don't like pot or any other recreational drugs. I do like alcohol and caffeine. Caffeine with sugar, even better. I don't gamble or watch porn but I used to shop obsessively and I have a hard time turning off the internet. I could not care any less if I never had chocolate again, but put a box of donuts or a package of Red Vines or Werthers hard candies or Bing cherries in front of me...and yeah, I've eaten sugar right out of the bowl and eaten entire boxes of candy with no fat in them (when I wasn't on a calorie deficit BTW) - many times. I also will binge a couple thousand calories on pretzels, French bread, cereal, crackers, potato chips (I know, fat in those chips.) Does that make me a non-drug addict? I mean, it's splitting hairs. Addiction is more or less a secretive self-diagnosis anyway unless and until it starts affecting the family or society at large. Who's to say who is addicted and who isn't? Is that lady on "My 600 Pound Life" an addict? What about those people on Hoarders? I'd think yes. Addictive Behaviors trigger those same neural pathways, relieve anxiety, become habits, create dopamine hits, cause huge problems in families and lives.
Once again, this thread goes in exactly the same trajectory it does every time...10,000 times over.
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But it's not insulin.
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I don't disagree that for some people the triggering foods may be ones that are specifically sugar and not fat. Similarly, I think for many it has zero to do with sugar and may be savory foods. Trigger foods are personal. But so often people say "it's sugar" or even "it's carbs" and the foods they list are in fact as much fat as carbs. I also think that @psychod787 is right (and Guyenet seems to be agreeing, as do the studies I've seen) that on average it's more common for trigger foods/foods people cannot control to be not just sugar (or just carbs).
The reason that distinction is important has nothing to do with whether one wants to call it addiction or not (I don't really care, my personal view is that it's addiction-like in some ways but that we shouldn't assume from that that the one best way to address it must be 100% abstinence, especially since you really can't abstain from sugar in that all carbs become sugar in the body and veg have sugar). Avoiding trigger foods may be an easier course of action than trying to moderate them for some, but for others avoiding can make the foods harder to control. So there's no one clear course of action for all and experimenting is likely a good idea.
I see too often when it's sugar (given the anti sugar/anti carb rhetoric these days) that people jump immediately to "one must avoid all sugar" or "go low carb." I also think it can cause people to do things like avoid fruit when IME eating more fruit actually tends to make me lose interest in other kinds of sweet foods (again, not saying this is the case for all, but it's why I think "eat fruit" as an answer to "what should I do if I crave sugar" is a reasonable answer and thing to try if one is really just craving sweetness and not a specific dessert item).
None of this is intended to discount the possibility that for some it is, specifically, sugar, but IMO that's no more likely that it being specifically other foods. Sugar is not some uber addictive substance as too often portrayed. And asking questions about the specific struggles -- what foods, what context, have you tried X, so on, sometimes gets taken as disbelief or rude or some such when, IMO, it's actually part of trying to give a helpful answer.
And this is coming from someone who has given up added sugar at times and found it helpful at times, even though I don't think sugar is a specific issue of mine (for me it was more related to mindless eating and not snacking is a more significant aid, but initially they were related). So I don't discount avoidance as something that may help. I just don't see it as always the one true answer. And I will note that many who see themselves as anti moderators do, in fact, mention things that seem to me to be moderating (eating certain foods rarely and only when out of the house). There are many ways to moderate. For some seeing more options than "I must never consume this food again" can be helpful too.8 -
I have sugar cravings and if I have no sweets in the house, I turn to the starch foods. I am a diabetic and this is dangerous for me. I am also on a restricted salt diet due to a heart condition. I struggle with these two problems constantly. I recently realized that I was using more and more Splenda, trying to satisfy that sweet tooth without adding all the calories. Well... my cravings went through the roof and it was during Halloween season ...so I was attacking the candy bowl every evening. Now I have gained 10 pounds in a month and hating myself for it. Altogether in 2 years I had taken off 100 pounds and now ...here is that 10 pound gain!
Today I am resolved to cut out the Splenda, processed sugar and the salt. I did this two years ago and it worked... but I have to say that I remember that it was very hard work. Pray for me to regain control of my eating habits by the grace of God... I know that I can do it. I hope that my experience and what I just said here can be of some help to some one else who is struggling! We are all human with all the weakness that come with it and we are diffidently creatures of habit... but with a brain and will to overcome. Good luck and God bless each of you! 2 -
Carlos_421 wrote: »Jthanmyfitnesspal wrote: »Having lost so much weight, I think you must have become an expert and I'd like to hear more about how you've done so well!
The bolded is rarely ever true.
I have lost over 150 lbs and I would say I am an expert. If you lose weight by changing how you eat, what you eat and exercising I do not see how you do it without becoming an expert. It does not mean you are perfect, but you become pretty knowledgeable about what it takes to lose weight.
First off, great job.
But most people who lose weight don't actually know or understand the reasons why what they're doing works. Typically they're just following a plan. So in a sense, someone who finds a plan that works for them and sticks to it for the long haul may become an "expert" in sticking to their own plan but they rarely become a true health and fitness expert.
An expert should be able to explain how and why weight loss occurs and be able to assist others with following plans that may look nothing like their own. Most people can't do that, regardless of whether or not they themselves have lost a lot of weight.7 -
You should check out the podcast We Only Look Thin. One of the hosts has lost 100 lbs and talks a lot about his struggle with sugar. He has a lot of great advice and tips for dealing with sugar cravings.4
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Carlos_421 wrote: »But most people who lose weight don't actually know or understand the reasons why what they're doing works.
Well, @carlos421, you might agree that learning to control your weight (particularly after many years of failing to do so) means you have learned something about yourself. So maybe your point is that it might not be helpful to someone else.
But, on the other hand, maybe it would!4 -
Jthanmyfitnesspal wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »But most people who lose weight don't actually know or understand the reasons why what they're doing works.
Well, @carlos421, you might agree that learning to control your weight (particularly after many years of failing to do so) means you have learned something about yourself. So maybe your point is that it might not be helpful to someone else.
But, on the other hand, maybe it would!
My point was that losing weight doesn't make someone an expert.3 -
Maybe it doesn't work in this environment but I LOVED reading @Jthanmyfitnesspal's comment. To remind someone who is now struggling of their past strength seems like a very wise approach. I don't understand the value of quibbling that OP isn't an actual expert. Were you thinking this would help someone?1
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@jmath0303 Are you still logging? How is your protein consumption? Do you eat meat? If not, are you taking any dietary supplements? Are you doing any cardio? How are your stress levels generally?0
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Carlos_421 wrote: »Jthanmyfitnesspal wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »But most people who lose weight don't actually know or understand the reasons why what they're doing works.
Well, @carlos421, you might agree that learning to control your weight (particularly after many years of failing to do so) means you have learned something about yourself. So maybe your point is that it might not be helpful to someone else.
But, on the other hand, maybe it would!
My point was that losing weight doesn't make someone an expert.
What if I lost weight annnddd stayed in a Holiday Inn Express? Would I be an expert?
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goldthistime wrote: »Maybe it doesn't work in this environment but I LOVED reading @Jthanmyfitnesspal's comment. To remind someone who is now struggling of their past strength seems like a very wise approach. I don't understand the value of quibbling that OP isn't an actual expert. Were you thinking this would help someone?
He said that he assumed they must be an expert because they lost weight. I simply pointed out that just because someone lost weight doesn't make them an expert (I've heard people who've lost weight give horrible advice).
And yes, I think understanding this can be very helpful for people who would otherwise accept bad advice wholesale just because the person saying it lost weight.
But this is a weird derail from OP and I dont understand why people are fixating on this response.4 -
psychod787 wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Jthanmyfitnesspal wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »But most people who lose weight don't actually know or understand the reasons why what they're doing works.
Well, @carlos421, you might agree that learning to control your weight (particularly after many years of failing to do so) means you have learned something about yourself. So maybe your point is that it might not be helpful to someone else.
But, on the other hand, maybe it would!
My point was that losing weight doesn't make someone an expert.
What if I lost weight annnddd stayed in a Holiday Inn Express? Would I be an expert?
Indeed1
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