Cortisol and Water Retention
New_Heavens_Earth
Posts: 610 Member
I've read here how excessive exercise can increase cortisol and cause fluid retention that masks weight loss. Assuming someone is in a deficit, and the extra exercise increases that deficit, how is that possible?
I look leaner. My dietitian put me on a 250 to 300 calorie deficit for half pound a week loss. But I've been maintaining for about 3 months, so I added in 2 a days for 5 days per week since last month. No change. I've explained my concerns to the dietitian (she specializes in sports nutrition and general weight loss) and she keeps saying not to worry because I should be playing the long game. Looking leaner is great but my doctors don't care they want the scale to move. Given my history of weight cycling they want it to move down ASAP. Mentally so do I.
Thanks for any advice.
I look leaner. My dietitian put me on a 250 to 300 calorie deficit for half pound a week loss. But I've been maintaining for about 3 months, so I added in 2 a days for 5 days per week since last month. No change. I've explained my concerns to the dietitian (she specializes in sports nutrition and general weight loss) and she keeps saying not to worry because I should be playing the long game. Looking leaner is great but my doctors don't care they want the scale to move. Given my history of weight cycling they want it to move down ASAP. Mentally so do I.
Thanks for any advice.
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Replies
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I don't really understand the second half of your post, so I'll just respond to the first. Over a short period of time (a few days to a few weeks) fluid retention can mask fat loss, if the fluid you're retaining weighs the same or more than the fat you lost. If from Sun to Sat you lost half a lb of fat but retained another half a lb of water, the scale won't move.
If you've been maintaining for 3 months, you are not in a deficit. Youre either eating more calories than you think, or burning less than you think.
Aggressive over exercising can backfire for weight loss, as in addition to causing wild water weight fluctuations it can cause you to be much less active when you aren't exercising due to fatigue and can subtlety increase your appetite.
You didn't provide your stats, and I'm thinking there might be a medical condition involved here based on the second half of your post, so how that affects your goals and how your body is reacting to things,. I have no idea.12 -
A 250-300 per day deficit is very easy to accidentally "erase" due to logging issues.
How strict are you with your calories and logging? Are you using a digital food scale for every single thing you eat? You're not having "cheat days" where you don't log? How often are you eating in a restaurant or at someone else's house? When I got down to within 20 pounds of my goal, I had every single one of those variables accounted for in my logging. I ate 13 out of 14 meals per week prepared from scratch by me using my food scale for every ingredient. I vetted every single food item I logged by using the USDA website to get accurate calorie amounts.
Even with my as-accurate-as-I-could-possibly-be food logging I still accept that I was making 100-200 calories per day in errors that I just didn't know about. 250-300 per day deficit leaves zero wiggle room.
An extra tiny snack (like A COOKIE or an extra anything) can erase that calorie deficit. Additionally, there is very little wiggle room on Exercise calories, and the only way I knew how much to log for exercise was by doing the long, slow slog of collecting my own data and doing adjustments over a period of many months.6 -
1/2 pound per week is 2 pounds per month-which is easy to not see given normal weight fluctuations. Also-over 3 months you’d be looking at a total of 6 pounds, and it’s not unheard of for an increase in exercise to tack on 4-5 pounds of water. So it’s possible that you’re losing on target but not seeing it because the amounts are small, likely to be difficult to see with normal fluctuations and adding in more exercise last month might skew that even more.
However.
The more likely culprit is minute logging issues adding up a large part of your deficit.
And/or the addition of a second workout has led to an almost imperceptible but very real level of fatigue where you’re too tired to move around as much in your day to day life activities (even if you don’t think this is the case).
You’re looking at a very small deficit. It’s incredibly easy to cut that deficit in half or completely by being a little less active overall, or a few small logging issues. Plus you’re looking at a rate of loss that is difficult to see clearly because of normal weight fluctuations.5 -
I don't really understand the second half of your post, so I'll just respond to the first. Over a short period of time (a few days to a few weeks) fluid retention can mask fat loss, if the fluid you're retaining weighs the same or more than the fat you lost. If from Sun to Sat you lost half a lb of fat but retained another half a lb of water, the scale won't move.
If you've been maintaining for 3 months, you are not in a deficit. Youre either eating more calories than you think, or burning less than you think.
Aggressive over exercising can backfire for weight loss, as in addition to causing wild water weight fluctuations it can cause you to be much less active when you aren't exercising due to fatigue and can subtlety increase your appetite.
You didn't provide your stats, and I'm thinking there might be a medical condition involved here based on the second half of your post, so how that affects your goals and how your body is reacting to things,. I have no idea.
5'3" 160 lbs age 43. I'm on a 1700 calorie as per TDEE plan, 40/30/30 split.
I do have fibromyalgia and possible sarcoidosis. I have done rounds of tapering steroids treatments. Doctor claims steroids have no effect on weight, which I don't believe is entirely true. He is very stuck on BMI and cares nothing about weight training, or that my muscle definition in my upper body is getting better (what I mean by looking leaner). All he cares is that I reach a number on the scale. As for fatigue, I am exhausted but force myself ro keep moving throughout the day until I hit at least my 10,000 steps.
Yes I weigh my foods and use ml beakers to measure liquids. I found a really cool set by OXO. I check my restaurant meals according to their website, not this database. I'm not a stranger to wild fluctuations, but would like to see my trending weight move downward.2 -
According to a random internet tdee scale, a 43-year old 5’3” woman who weighs 160 and is sedentary has a tdee of 1620 calories a day. Of course if she is more active, her tdee is higher.
With fibromyalgia, I can imagine that you aren’t as active as you used to be. Of course you are now doing intentional exercise, but are you also resting more?
I personally would look more toward calorie goals as a way of reducing weight rather than more exercise.
But of course we each have to find what is right for us, and I haven’t walked a mile in your shoes.7 -
I agree with Corinasue, you're on the shorter side and 1700 calories seems high. If you are confident in the accuracy of your food logging, it's possible you aren't burning as many calories through activity as you think. At 5'4 145lbs I was barely losing 1-2 lbs per month (no that's not a typo) at 1500 cals, with no confounding health conditions. You might need to try cutting your calories a little further and see what happens after 6-8 weeks.
And I'd lose the two-a-days, unless you enjoy that. Losing weight through a ton of exercise often just means you'll gain it back when you get to the point that you just can't keep up any more. Finding a calorie level that works at an activity level that doesn't leave you exhausted will be a useful tool to have in order to maintain a healthy weight for the rest of your life.
I hope you figure it out, good luck!5 -
I almost never advise this here, but is there a reason you are not targeting a bit more aggressive on the deficit from an intake perspective? At 5'3 and 160, you are at a 28.3 BMI. Even under conservative weight loss, a 1 pound a week target wouldn't usually be considered too big a deficit.
If you were maintaing for 3 months, you were likely not in a deficit. Have you thought about trying to drop it to 1500 and see what happens? That to me sounds more sustainable and like a better option than trying to overexercise yourself.6 -
MikePTY is on the right track/\. I am 5’3” and have been logging for the last week, weighing all foods and set my calories to 1450. I walk and garden as my exercise. I weigh 213lbs and am a 48 year old female. I lost 3 pounds this week. I have a lot more to lose than you do, but I think trying 1600 calories for two weeks with walking only might reset things for you.3
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I almost never advise this here, but is there a reason you are not targeting a bit more aggressive on the deficit from an intake perspective? At 5'3 and 160, you are at a 28.3 BMI. Even under conservative weight loss, a 1 pound a week target wouldn't usually be considered too big a deficit.
If you were maintaing for 3 months, you were likely not in a deficit. Have you thought about trying to drop it to 1500 and see what happens? That to me sounds more sustainable and like a better option than trying to overexercise yourself.
I was trying to follow the advice of the dietitian who gave me those numbers. She only wants me "playing the long game" and wants me to lose half lb per week. I was honestly doubting those numbers. After I took a temporary slowdown I asked her to run the calculations again and said nothing really changed.
I agree that a further cut is needed. When I put the numbers into MFP I get 1460 calories per day for half lb per week before exercise calories. Setting it to 1 lb per week leaves me at 1200. So I'm confused horribly. I'll try the 1460 and see what happens.
Thanks to everyone!2 -
So your dietician wants you lose slow and your doctor wants you to lose quickly. Is the RD aware of the doctors concerns?1
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I'm 5'4 and about 160# and at 1700 calories per day, I was losing a little over a pound per week, but my activity level is active to very active, not sedentary. I'm getting 14,000 steps per day (generating about 336 calories worth of calorie burn per day - thanks, doggies!), and that's NOT my workout. That's just my life. I also do 3 weight-lifting workouts per week. I feel like 1700 is very likely (and reasonably) maintenance calories for you if you are, in fact, sedentary outside your workouts.5
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ElizabethKalmbach wrote: »I'm 5'4 and about 160# and at 1700 calories per day, I was losing a little over a pound per week, but my activity level is active to very active, not sedentary. I'm getting 14,000 steps per day (generating about 336 calories worth of calorie burn per day - thanks, doggies!), and that's NOT my workout. That's just my life. I also do 3 weight-lifting workouts per week. I feel like 1700 is very likely (and reasonably) maintenance calories for you if you are, in fact, sedentary outside your workouts.
Not sedentary. Without workouts I average about 7000 steps per day.2 -
So, "lightly active." Still, if you haven't tried lowering your calories somewhat, and 1700/day isn't working, I'd still think that dropping to 1450 calories for a few weeks to see if it generates scale movement, might not be harmful or unreasonable. I am working in the opposite direction from you on this puzzle, as I *raised* to 1700 calories/day because I was losing too quickly at 1450 calories, but I am still also groping around "in the dark" for the right numbers for my body. I believe that if there is something you wish to try, your dietician (or most dieticians) may not take those suggestions poorly, as long as you've been good with compliance and reasoning thus far in your relationship with her (him?).
It's certainly worth mentioning, anyway.
Bodies are hard to sort, and I would like to compliment you on your patience and perseverance thus far. You WILL get this figured out sooner or later with your awesome/patient attitude and disciplined approach, and I am totally rooting for you. Never give up, and keep advocating for yourself and what you think is realistic for you.5 -
One of the advantages to just *changing* your calories in either direction is that it may shine a light on any logging errors you may not otherwise notice as it will force you to rearrange your food choices somewhat to get better satiation and keep to your macros. Sometimes when that happens you'll end up cutting out or reducing (or, heaven forbid, increasing!) the food that is being accounted for incorrectly and you'll be able to figure out what it is. In my case (one time, about 5 years ago), it was coffee creamer... >_< My office switched brands on me and the caloric difference was significant, compounded by the amount of coffee I drink in a day.3
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ElizabethKalmbach wrote: »One of the advantages to just *changing* your calories in either direction is that it may shine a light on any logging errors you may not otherwise notice as it will force you to rearrange your food choices somewhat to get better satiation and keep to your macros. Sometimes when that happens you'll end up cutting out or reducing (or, heaven forbid, increasing!) the food that is being accounted for incorrectly and you'll be able to figure out what it is. In my case (one time, about 5 years ago), it was coffee creamer... >_< My office switched brands on me and the caloric difference was significant, compounded by the amount of coffee I drink in a day.
A lot of what you said echoes what my RD says. That my first methods of weight loss were new and exciting, and of course put me at a deficit. But now that those aren't working it's time to leave the safe and familiar and learn new ways that will work and be sustainable. Learning to shift to more protein and less carbs is new, but I seem more satisfied and called attention to how much I relied on carbs. Not that they're bad but they were the go to food in my life. I'll continue to keep that up but with a lower calorie level.
Thank you
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New_Heavens_Earth wrote: »ElizabethKalmbach wrote: »One of the advantages to just *changing* your calories in either direction is that it may shine a light on any logging errors you may not otherwise notice as it will force you to rearrange your food choices somewhat to get better satiation and keep to your macros. Sometimes when that happens you'll end up cutting out or reducing (or, heaven forbid, increasing!) the food that is being accounted for incorrectly and you'll be able to figure out what it is. In my case (one time, about 5 years ago), it was coffee creamer... >_< My office switched brands on me and the caloric difference was significant, compounded by the amount of coffee I drink in a day.
A lot of what you said echoes what my RD says. That my first methods of weight loss were new and exciting, and of course put me at a deficit. But now that those aren't working it's time to leave the safe and familiar and learn new ways that will work and be sustainable. Learning to shift to more protein and less carbs is new, but I seem more satisfied and called attention to how much I relied on carbs. Not that they're bad but they were the go to food in my life. I'll continue to keep that up but with a lower calorie level.
Thank you
The thing you need to be careful about is that your doctors have very little training in nutrition and weight management. Your RD is trying to change your mindset to one that may work for the rest of your life while your doctor is only focused on the numbers. She wants you to be process-driven not results-driven.
You are on a TDEE system so you should not be comparing what your RD has you eating to what MFP tells you to eat. The numbers are not going to be the same because MFP is not a TDEE system.
I think you should give it another month before changing anything and even then change it with your RD's input. Discuss with her your doctor's concern and ask her specifically why she is having you lose slower than what could be a healthy rate for yourself. It may have more to do with your medical condition and she may be think that a steeper deficit is not a good idea for you.5 -
@NovusDies But she's saying she has been maintaining for 3 months, right? There's certainly no harm in waiting to discuss it with the RD, but if she's borderline obese by BMI and has maintained for the last 3 months, I think it's safe to say she isn't in a deficit at all. Just my 2 cents
OP I definitely don't think you should make any drastic changes without consulting your doctor and/or RD. Personally, I don't think dropping to 1500 calories is drastic, but obviously you have to determine what you are comfortable with and all the info your medical team has given you that we aren't privy to.6 -
OP I definitely don't think you should make any drastic changes without consulting your doctor and/or RD. Personally, I don't think dropping to 1500 calories is drastic, but obviously you have to determine what you are comfortable with and all the info your medical team has given you that we aren't privy to.
I have an appt with the RD tomorrow. I'll discuss a further cut and the doctor's concerns with her tomorrow.
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@NovusDies But she's saying she has been maintaining for 3 months, right? There's certainly no harm in waiting to discuss it with the RD, but if she's borderline obese by BMI and has maintained for the last 3 months, I think it's safe to say she isn't in a deficit at all. Just my 2 cents
OP I definitely don't think you should make any drastic changes without consulting your doctor and/or RD. Personally, I don't think dropping to 1500 calories is drastic, but obviously you have to determine what you are comfortable with and all the info your medical team has given you that we aren't privy to.
She also says she is getting leaner. It does seem like the scale would have moved a little but with that amount of deficit the resulting weight loss would be an easy amount to have masked considering she has added new exercise.
I am more concerned about dropping another full 250 than I am with dropping some but then my opinion is based on very little data.
ETA: I also do not know what part inflammation plays with those medical conditions.3
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