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2 days a week workout- strength and conditioning/building muscle

jacknyland98_jacknyland98_ Posts: 7Member, Premium Member Posts: 7Member, Premium Member
Hi All

I need some community advice on a two-day a week workout. So, a little brief back story... I sort of plateaued at 2700 calories, I was doing quite a bit of training a week (3 days gym, 3-4 sessions of martial arts). I had a rest, a think and a friend told me to start intermittent fasting (16/8 ... fasting 8 pm -midday) and drop to 2500 calories. I track carefully with the app (have always usually tracked well) and have calmed down on training a bit as I think I was overdoing it at times.

I'm so bad at thinking (or overthinking) training plans for myself. I was wondering if anyone had any suggestions on a two day a week program preferably full body with the goal to lose bf, retain muscle mass and hopefully build a bit too. With my new schedule, I plan to adjust my training as follows:

Monday- Martial arts evening
Tuesday- Martial arts evening
Wednesday- rest
Thursday- FULL BODY WORKOUT- GYM
Friday- rest
Saturday- FULL BODY WORKOUT- GYM
Sunday- rest

I do work Mon-Fri and weekends are sometimes busy getting food for the following week, washing and prepping lunches for work.

Any advice on how to structure, what to include. I want to build my chest and arms up too (these are more of a focus).

Replies

  • Justin_7272Justin_7272 Posts: 205Member Member Posts: 205Member Member
    You could do a modified Stronglifts 5x5 A-B workout, or highly-modified All-Pros; both are designed 3 x week, but Stronglifts would be much easier to narrow to 2 days to suit your needs.
  • BrianSharpeBrianSharpe Posts: 8,823Member Member Posts: 8,823Member Member
    You could do a modified Stronglifts 5x5 A-B workout, or highly-modified All-Pros; both are designed 3 x week, but Stronglifts would be much easier to narrow to 2 days to suit your needs.

    Agree with the SL 5x5 suggestion. Day one you'd squat, bench press and row (A workout) and day 2 you'd squat, shoulder press and deadlift (B workout). Lifting 2 x weekly rather than 3 may result in slightly slower progress but it's a marathon, not a sprint!
  • mom23mangosmom23mangos Posts: 2,856Member Member Posts: 2,856Member Member
    I'd look at any reputable upper/lower or push/pull split programs and just combine them to 2x/week instead of 4.
  • ChieflrgChieflrg Posts: 8,026Member Member Posts: 8,026Member Member
    Training history?

    I would suggest resistance training 3x week.
  • MT1134MT1134 Posts: 113Member Member Posts: 113Member Member
    It's not that it couldn't work but I don't recommend taking a reputable program and then modifying it unless the program specifically allows wiggle room for things like that.

    Most of these programs are written specifically to achieve a certain goal as they are and trying to change them to fit your own goals and constraints often takes away from what the program was meant to do to begin with.

    There are programs out there such as 5/3/1 that allow you to make those changes so if you're going to go the route of getting a prewritten program then do your best to get one that fits your goals and time constraints.

    I would personally recommend programs that meet a minimalist approach but still deliver like work from Bud Jeffries or Tactical Barbell. Both those take into account busy lifestyles and fighters needs.
  • aokoyeaokoye Posts: 3,222Member Member Posts: 3,222Member Member
    Chieflrg wrote: »
    Training history?

    I would suggest resistance training 3x week.

    The problem is figuring out how that would work out with the OP's existing martial arts training. Weight training three days a week would get them more back to back days than it appears they want and in order to maintain the number of rest days while also doing three weight training sessions a week, they'd have to drop down to one session of martial arts which seems like a poor idea.

    I've been doing a modified version of stronglifts twice a week along with two to four days of rowing (Wednesdays involve both strength and rowing) four the past 8 or so weeks and I've been seeing quite a lot of progress. This is logical because I'm a beginner, but also depending on what your goals are, you simply don't need to do three days a week of strength training.
    edited December 5
  • sijomialsijomial Posts: 15,605Member Member Posts: 15,605Member Member
    Personally for the majority of my training life (excluding teenage years when marvellous things happen fast and easily.....) two strength workouts a week wasn't enough training volume to significiantly build muscle, more like muscle and strength maintenance.

    Knowing your age and training history would help.

    Full body concentrating on the big compund lifts would be the most efficient use of limited time that two sessions gives you.

    Can you do any accessory work at home on your "rest" days?
  • ChieflrgChieflrg Posts: 8,026Member Member Posts: 8,026Member Member
    aokoye wrote: »
    Chieflrg wrote: »
    Training history?

    I would suggest resistance training 3x week.

    The problem is figuring out how that would work out with the OP's existing martial arts training. Weight training three days a week would get them more back to back days than it appears they want and in order to maintain the number of rest days while also doing three weight training sessions a week, they'd have to drop down to one session of martial arts which seems like a poor idea.

    I've been doing a modified version of stronglifts twice a week along with two to four days of rowing (Wednesdays involve both strength and rowing) four the past 8 or so weeks and I've been seeing quite a lot of progress. This is logical because I'm a beginner, but also depending on what your goals are, you simply don't need to do three days a week of strength training.

    Its been my experience that the body is very adaptable and can handle useful stress if we dose it correctly.

    Example many many people including myself train back to back days even twice a week(four sessions) on a regular basis. This even including other stimulus including even cardio type activities and recover just fine for progress because of good load management.

    One doesn't need a rest day from martial arts to resistance training or vise versa with proper load management and recovery in mind. We are not talking someone playing soccer or basketball and trying to "increase" strength which is rather difficult.

    I can see a problem trying to run a LP with a poor load management as written such as SL or SS. This is not what I'm suggesting.

    The fact is 2x week training is not only extremely suboptimal compared to 3x week even if that means back-back-back days are dosed appropriately with load management in place.

    Is it optimal to train back to back vs a rest day in between 3x a week? In some cases such as this, no. Is it training 3x week better than training only 2x week in this case? It's been my experience, yes. The benefits outweigh the cons and progress is to be had where as 2x week progress is almost always stale to nil even in best of circumstances.

    Perhaps the OP might be confused how to accomplish this. I'm willing to lay it out if more info is given such as training history, volume, and data on fatigue/stress.
  • mom23mangosmom23mangos Posts: 2,856Member Member Posts: 2,856Member Member
    I'm actually very interested in the reasoning behind why there would be a big difference between a 4 day a week upper/lower split vs. 2 days of full body. I've always looked at it just from a time constraint. Is it the overall energy needed to get through that long of a workout?

    M/Th - Lower Body
    T/F - Upper Body

    2-3 days between each body part

    vs.

    W/Sa - Full body

    2-3 days between each body part

    Also - since one of OP's goals is to build chest/arms, could he incorporate a 2 a day concept with one of the martial arts days split into something like morning doing back/biceps and then I'm assuming a crap ton of pushups and such in the class to cover chest/triceps? I'm totally clueless, just throwing ideas out there. This is a very educational thread.
  • aokoyeaokoye Posts: 3,222Member Member Posts: 3,222Member Member
    Chieflrg wrote: »
    aokoye wrote: »
    Chieflrg wrote: »
    Training history?

    I would suggest resistance training 3x week.

    The problem is figuring out how that would work out with the OP's existing martial arts training. Weight training three days a week would get them more back to back days than it appears they want and in order to maintain the number of rest days while also doing three weight training sessions a week, they'd have to drop down to one session of martial arts which seems like a poor idea.

    I've been doing a modified version of stronglifts twice a week along with two to four days of rowing (Wednesdays involve both strength and rowing) four the past 8 or so weeks and I've been seeing quite a lot of progress. This is logical because I'm a beginner, but also depending on what your goals are, you simply don't need to do three days a week of strength training.

    Its been my experience that the body is very adaptable and can handle useful stress if we dose it correctly.

    Example many many people including myself train back to back days even twice a week(four sessions) on a regular basis. This even including other stimulus including even cardio type activities and recover just fine for progress because of good load management.

    One doesn't need a rest day from martial arts to resistance training or vise versa with proper load management and recovery in mind. We are not talking someone playing soccer or basketball and trying to "increase" strength which is rather difficult.

    I can see a problem trying to run a LP with a poor load management as written such as SL or SS. This is not what I'm suggesting.

    The fact is 2x week training is not only extremely suboptimal compared to 3x week even if that means back-back-back days are dosed appropriately with load management in place.

    Is it optimal to train back to back vs a rest day in between 3x a week? In some cases such as this, no. Is it training 3x week better than training only 2x week in this case? It's been my experience, yes. The benefits outweigh the cons and progress is to be had where as 2x week progress is almost always stale to nil even in best of circumstances.

    Perhaps the OP might be confused how to accomplish this. I'm willing to lay it out if more info is given such as training history, volume, and data on fatigue/stress.

    I don't have a lot of time to respond right now, but again the optimal number of days to do strength training is going to be dependent on the goals of the person. Your goals with regards to that are very much not my goals and I suspect that neither of our goals are the same as the OP's. For example, from everything that I've read, including from an international governing body, rowers should strength train 2-3 days a week. From what I understand, Boston University's men's and women's crew teams strength train twice a week (see this story). Strength training two days a week, as opposed to three, as a very deliberate part of training for rowing, seems far from the exception and is not "sub-optimal".

    Whether or not the OP's goals nessistate three days a week of strength training doesn't appear to be something that any of the commenters currently know, but it's silly to assume that the same methodology and programming should apply to everyone because not everyone has the same goals, let alone the same physiology.
  • MT1134MT1134 Posts: 113Member Member Posts: 113Member Member
    I think we need to narrow down exactly what the goals are and the obstacles in front of achieving them.

    1)Drop fat
    2)Retain/Gain muscle (arms and chest in particular)
    3)Martial arts

    It really comes down to this, "prioritize and execute"

    Dropping fat while gaining/retaining muscle at the same time isn't unheard of but probably isn't a practical approach for the best results either.

    Along with prioritize and execute, I would ask the question-Why?

    Are your goals in line with being competitive in martial arts?

    Are you looking to do this purely for aesthetics?

    I ask that because it helps us narrow down the path to success.

    How specific are your goals? How much weight or fat do you want to drop? Do you have a timeline?

    Eating to drop some lbs often doesn't support muscle gain. So if this is for a competition then we need to know the parameters around that. If martial arts are purely recreational then we can adjust the intensity of your workouts a bit to a higher degree.

    Are your rest days programmed that way due to time constraints with family and other things or do you just not want to go to the gym because you don't want to overdo it?

    Rest days don't have to be off days, they can be built around recovery such as working mobility/stability, stretching, light aerobic exercise for blood flow.

    Just throwing out ideas.
  • happysquatterhappysquatter Posts: 18Member Member Posts: 18Member Member
    A lot depends on your training history. For your goals, 2x a week might not be sufficient, 3x a week following a HLM (Heavy Light Medium) protocol could be structured and would be ideal. Higher RPE sets etc etc

    If your schedule is rigid then it would be harder to build strength but you might be able to maintain it (again training history is needed); building muscle mass would be even harder still but losing body fat would be easy as pie.

    Pick your battles or add one more training day.

  • ChieflrgChieflrg Posts: 8,026Member Member Posts: 8,026Member Member
    aokoye wrote: »
    Chieflrg wrote: »
    aokoye wrote: »
    Chieflrg wrote: »
    Training history?

    I would suggest resistance training 3x week.

    The problem is figuring out how that would work out with the OP's existing martial arts training. Weight training three days a week would get them more back to back days than it appears they want and in order to maintain the number of rest days while also doing three weight training sessions a week, they'd have to drop down to one session of martial arts which seems like a poor idea.

    I've been doing a modified version of stronglifts twice a week along with two to four days of rowing (Wednesdays involve both strength and rowing) four the past 8 or so weeks and I've been seeing quite a lot of progress. This is logical because I'm a beginner, but also depending on what your goals are, you simply don't need to do three days a week of strength training.

    Its been my experience that the body is very adaptable and can handle useful stress if we dose it correctly.

    Example many many people including myself train back to back days even twice a week(four sessions) on a regular basis. This even including other stimulus including even cardio type activities and recover just fine for progress because of good load management.

    One doesn't need a rest day from martial arts to resistance training or vise versa with proper load management and recovery in mind. We are not talking someone playing soccer or basketball and trying to "increase" strength which is rather difficult.

    I can see a problem trying to run a LP with a poor load management as written such as SL or SS. This is not what I'm suggesting.

    The fact is 2x week training is not only extremely suboptimal compared to 3x week even if that means back-back-back days are dosed appropriately with load management in place.

    Is it optimal to train back to back vs a rest day in between 3x a week? In some cases such as this, no. Is it training 3x week better than training only 2x week in this case? It's been my experience, yes. The benefits outweigh the cons and progress is to be had where as 2x week progress is almost always stale to nil even in best of circumstances.

    Perhaps the OP might be confused how to accomplish this. I'm willing to lay it out if more info is given such as training history, volume, and data on fatigue/stress.

    I don't have a lot of time to respond right now, but again the optimal number of days to do strength training is going to be dependent on the goals of the person. Your goals with regards to that are very much not my goals and I suspect that neither of our goals are the same as the OP's. For example, from everything that I've read, including from an international governing body, rowers should strength train 2-3 days a week. From what I understand, Boston University's men's and women's crew teams strength train twice a week (see this story). Strength training two days a week, as opposed to three, as a very deliberate part of training for rowing, seems far from the exception and is not "sub-optimal".

    Whether or not the OP's goals nessistate three days a week of strength training doesn't appear to be something that any of the commenters currently know, but it's silly to assume that the same methodology and programming should apply to everyone because not everyone has the same goals, let alone the same physiology.

    Perhaps you might be confused. My response to you was not about my goals specifically, but your theory that back to back training is a problem in general. I assure you it is not especially with martial arts as a added activity. Martial arts is no where near as physically demanding as rowing by the way.

    Since for whatever reason you brought up your goal of rowing which I concur just like some sports I mentioned previosly(backetbal, soccer, etc...) requires more recovery than martial arts. It would be more the difficult to recover more than 2x week training in these type of activities.  Rowing itself has substantial resistance training built into the sport so yah, I wouldn't compare rowing to martial arts or dose training the same.

    When I responded to the OP's post/goals it wasn't based on my goals, but rather my experience training people with those goals. But since you brought it up, yes I have had simular goals in the past of resistance training while practicing Aikido for several years. I've also have experience strength training martial artists for decades one individual who successfuly medaled in the Olympics years ago.

    With the OP'S goals in mind we need to dose appropriate stimulus with proper load management.

    2x weekly to achieve hypertrophy is not only tricky early in but near impossible after the initial spurt we see early on in training.

    3x weekly is not only easier to dose, but easier to recover from if we are talking the amount of volume needed to drive progress and hypertrophy.

    I rather see a bro split of sorts of 3/4 days a week than 2x full body. Why? Beacause its more specific to the volume needed towards the OP's goals with recovery in mind. I rather not blast a person with volume, but dose it in amounts that is easily recovered from and practices proper load management long term.

    If the OP'S goal is to experience hypertrophy and MPS then the bottom line is we need properly dose adequate volume that allows adequate recovery to do so.



    edited December 6
  • aokoyeaokoye Posts: 3,222Member Member Posts: 3,222Member Member
    Chieflrg wrote: »
    aokoye wrote: »
    Chieflrg wrote: »
    aokoye wrote: »
    Chieflrg wrote: »
    Training history?

    I would suggest resistance training 3x week.

    The problem is figuring out how that would work out with the OP's existing martial arts training. Weight training three days a week would get them more back to back days than it appears they want and in order to maintain the number of rest days while also doing three weight training sessions a week, they'd have to drop down to one session of martial arts which seems like a poor idea.

    I've been doing a modified version of stronglifts twice a week along with two to four days of rowing (Wednesdays involve both strength and rowing) four the past 8 or so weeks and I've been seeing quite a lot of progress. This is logical because I'm a beginner, but also depending on what your goals are, you simply don't need to do three days a week of strength training.

    Its been my experience that the body is very adaptable and can handle useful stress if we dose it correctly.

    Example many many people including myself train back to back days even twice a week(four sessions) on a regular basis. This even including other stimulus including even cardio type activities and recover just fine for progress because of good load management.

    One doesn't need a rest day from martial arts to resistance training or vise versa with proper load management and recovery in mind. We are not talking someone playing soccer or basketball and trying to "increase" strength which is rather difficult.

    I can see a problem trying to run a LP with a poor load management as written such as SL or SS. This is not what I'm suggesting.

    The fact is 2x week training is not only extremely suboptimal compared to 3x week even if that means back-back-back days are dosed appropriately with load management in place.

    Is it optimal to train back to back vs a rest day in between 3x a week? In some cases such as this, no. Is it training 3x week better than training only 2x week in this case? It's been my experience, yes. The benefits outweigh the cons and progress is to be had where as 2x week progress is almost always stale to nil even in best of circumstances.

    Perhaps the OP might be confused how to accomplish this. I'm willing to lay it out if more info is given such as training history, volume, and data on fatigue/stress.

    I don't have a lot of time to respond right now, but again the optimal number of days to do strength training is going to be dependent on the goals of the person. Your goals with regards to that are very much not my goals and I suspect that neither of our goals are the same as the OP's. For example, from everything that I've read, including from an international governing body, rowers should strength train 2-3 days a week. From what I understand, Boston University's men's and women's crew teams strength train twice a week (see this story). Strength training two days a week, as opposed to three, as a very deliberate part of training for rowing, seems far from the exception and is not "sub-optimal".

    Whether or not the OP's goals nessistate three days a week of strength training doesn't appear to be something that any of the commenters currently know, but it's silly to assume that the same methodology and programming should apply to everyone because not everyone has the same goals, let alone the same physiology.

    Perhaps you might be confused. My response to you was not about my goals specifically, but your theory that back to back training is a problem in general. I assure you it is not especially with martial arts as a added activity. Martial arts is no where near as physically demanding as rowing by the way.

    Since for whatever reason you brought up your goal of rowing which I concur just like some sports I mentioned previosly(backetbal, soccer, etc...) requires more recovery than martial arts. It would be more the difficult to recover more than 2x week training in these type of activities.  Rowing itself has substantial resistance training built into the sport so yah, I wouldn't compare rowing to martial arts or dose training the same.

    When I responded to the OP's post/goals it wasn't based on my goals, but rather my experience training people with those goals. But since you brought it up, yes I have had simular goals in the past of resistance training while practicing Aikido for several years. I've also have experience strength training martial artists for decades one individual who successfuly medaled in the Olympics years ago.

    With the OP'S goals in mind we need to dose appropriate stimulus with proper load management.

    2x weekly to achieve hypertrophy is not only tricky early in but near impossible after the initial spurt we see early on in training.

    3x weekly is not only easier to dose, but easier to recover from if we are talking the amount of volume needed to drive progress and hypertrophy.

    I rather see a bro split of sorts of 3/4 days a week than 2x full body. Why? Beacause its more specific to the volume needed towards the OP's goals with recovery in mind. I rather not blast a person with volume, but dose it in amounts that is easily recovered from and practices proper load management long term.

    If the OP'S goal is to experience hypertrophy and MPS then the bottom line is we need properly dose adequate volume that allows adequate recovery to do so.
    If that's what you were responding to, "[my] theory that back to back training is a problem in general." then it's no wonder I was confused, I never actually said that back to back training is a problem. What I said was, "Weight training three days a week would get them more back to back days than it appears they want". Do you see the difference? In that context, your reply didn't actually make much sense.
  • amandakesslersamandakesslers Posts: 180Member Member Posts: 180Member Member
    If it's possible and if you can handle it, I would recommend only having 2 rest days and lifting Thursday, Friday, and Saturday. Full-body workouts, while better than doing nothing, are not very efficient in building muscle around the body. You should utilize a PPL routine, or Push Pull Legs, where you do Chest/Shoulders/Triceps on Thursday, Back/Traps/Biceps on Friday, and Calves/Quads/Hamstrings on Saturday. The PPL routine is probably the most common lifting routine, and for good reason due to it's effectiveness. Fill you Push and Pull days with compound, multi-joint exercises like this to get the best results: https://openfit.com/best-upper-body-workout
  • ChieflrgChieflrg Posts: 8,026Member Member Posts: 8,026Member Member
    aokoye wrote: »
    Chieflrg wrote: »
    aokoye wrote: »
    Chieflrg wrote: »
    aokoye wrote: »
    Chieflrg wrote: »
    Training history?

    I would suggest resistance training 3x week.

    The problem is figuring out how that would work out with the OP's existing martial arts training. Weight training three days a week would get them more back to back days than it appears they want and in order to maintain the number of rest days while also doing three weight training sessions a week, they'd have to drop down to one session of martial arts which seems like a poor idea.

    I've been doing a modified version of stronglifts twice a week along with two to four days of rowing (Wednesdays involve both strength and rowing) four the past 8 or so weeks and I've been seeing quite a lot of progress. This is logical because I'm a beginner, but also depending on what your goals are, you simply don't need to do three days a week of strength training.

    Its been my experience that the body is very adaptable and can handle useful stress if we dose it correctly.

    Example many many people including myself train back to back days even twice a week(four sessions) on a regular basis. This even including other stimulus including even cardio type activities and recover just fine for progress because of good load management.

    One doesn't need a rest day from martial arts to resistance training or vise versa with proper load management and recovery in mind. We are not talking someone playing soccer or basketball and trying to "increase" strength which is rather difficult.

    I can see a problem trying to run a LP with a poor load management as written such as SL or SS. This is not what I'm suggesting.

    The fact is 2x week training is not only extremely suboptimal compared to 3x week even if that means back-back-back days are dosed appropriately with load management in place.

    Is it optimal to train back to back vs a rest day in between 3x a week? In some cases such as this, no. Is it training 3x week better than training only 2x week in this case? It's been my experience, yes. The benefits outweigh the cons and progress is to be had where as 2x week progress is almost always stale to nil even in best of circumstances.

    Perhaps the OP might be confused how to accomplish this. I'm willing to lay it out if more info is given such as training history, volume, and data on fatigue/stress.

    I don't have a lot of time to respond right now, but again the optimal number of days to do strength training is going to be dependent on the goals of the person. Your goals with regards to that are very much not my goals and I suspect that neither of our goals are the same as the OP's. For example, from everything that I've read, including from an international governing body, rowers should strength train 2-3 days a week. From what I understand, Boston University's men's and women's crew teams strength train twice a week (see this story). Strength training two days a week, as opposed to three, as a very deliberate part of training for rowing, seems far from the exception and is not "sub-optimal".

    Whether or not the OP's goals nessistate three days a week of strength training doesn't appear to be something that any of the commenters currently know, but it's silly to assume that the same methodology and programming should apply to everyone because not everyone has the same goals, let alone the same physiology.

    Perhaps you might be confused. My response to you was not about my goals specifically, but your theory that back to back training is a problem in general. I assure you it is not especially with martial arts as a added activity. Martial arts is no where near as physically demanding as rowing by the way.

    Since for whatever reason you brought up your goal of rowing which I concur just like some sports I mentioned previosly(backetbal, soccer, etc...) requires more recovery than martial arts. It would be more the difficult to recover more than 2x week training in these type of activities.  Rowing itself has substantial resistance training built into the sport so yah, I wouldn't compare rowing to martial arts or dose training the same.

    When I responded to the OP's post/goals it wasn't based on my goals, but rather my experience training people with those goals. But since you brought it up, yes I have had simular goals in the past of resistance training while practicing Aikido for several years. I've also have experience strength training martial artists for decades one individual who successfuly medaled in the Olympics years ago.

    With the OP'S goals in mind we need to dose appropriate stimulus with proper load management.

    2x weekly to achieve hypertrophy is not only tricky early in but near impossible after the initial spurt we see early on in training.

    3x weekly is not only easier to dose, but easier to recover from if we are talking the amount of volume needed to drive progress and hypertrophy.

    I rather see a bro split of sorts of 3/4 days a week than 2x full body. Why? Beacause its more specific to the volume needed towards the OP's goals with recovery in mind. I rather not blast a person with volume, but dose it in amounts that is easily recovered from and practices proper load management long term.

    If the OP'S goal is to experience hypertrophy and MPS then the bottom line is we need properly dose adequate volume that allows adequate recovery to do so.
    If that's what you were responding to, "[my] theory that back to back training is a problem in general." then it's no wonder I was confused, I never actually said that back to back training is a problem. What I said was, "Weight training three days a week would get them more back to back days than it appears they want". Do you see the difference? In that context, your reply didn't actually make much sense.
    I didn't see the OP mention concern for back to back days. Only you replying that martial arts would have to be dropped to one day a week if resistance training 3x a week which certainly is not the case.

    The OP has a reasonable solution/schedule though it's been my experience that taking resistance training from 3x a week down to 2x a week is a last resort in a extremely busy lifestyle that still doesn't yield productive results for the goals the OP stated.
    aokoye wrote: »

    The problem is figuring out how that would work out with the OP's existing martial arts training. Weight training three days a week would get them more back to back days than it appears they want and in order to maintain the number of rest days while also doing three weight training sessions a week, they'd have to drop down to one session of martial arts which seems like a poor idea.

    I've been doing a modified version of stronglifts twice a week along with two to four days of rowing (Wednesdays involve both strength and rowing) four the past 8 or so weeks and I've been seeing quite a lot of progress. This is logical because I'm a beginner, but also depending on what your goals are, you simply don't need to do three days a week of strength training.
    It is not a problem to train 3x a week when we are talking martial arts involved. Nor does one need to drop down to one day of martial arts.

    Once again rowing is not martial arts. I respectively would not bring your goals and a "beginner level" of resistance training that is badtardized and expect to apply the same possible lack of load management and/or auto regulation to the OP resistance training and martial arts.

    I'm only simply giving advice that has worked many years of training and coaching people that involve the OP goals successfully.

    I wish you the best in your goals and training as I will remove myself from trying to change your mind.






    edited December 6
  • aokoyeaokoye Posts: 3,222Member Member Posts: 3,222Member Member
    Chieflrg wrote: »
    aokoye wrote: »
    Chieflrg wrote: »
    aokoye wrote: »
    Chieflrg wrote: »
    aokoye wrote: »
    Chieflrg wrote: »
    Training history?

    I would suggest resistance training 3x week.

    The problem is figuring out how that would work out with the OP's existing martial arts training. Weight training three days a week would get them more back to back days than it appears they want and in order to maintain the number of rest days while also doing three weight training sessions a week, they'd have to drop down to one session of martial arts which seems like a poor idea.

    I've been doing a modified version of stronglifts twice a week along with two to four days of rowing (Wednesdays involve both strength and rowing) four the past 8 or so weeks and I've been seeing quite a lot of progress. This is logical because I'm a beginner, but also depending on what your goals are, you simply don't need to do three days a week of strength training.

    Its been my experience that the body is very adaptable and can handle useful stress if we dose it correctly.

    Example many many people including myself train back to back days even twice a week(four sessions) on a regular basis. This even including other stimulus including even cardio type activities and recover just fine for progress because of good load management.

    One doesn't need a rest day from martial arts to resistance training or vise versa with proper load management and recovery in mind. We are not talking someone playing soccer or basketball and trying to "increase" strength which is rather difficult.

    I can see a problem trying to run a LP with a poor load management as written such as SL or SS. This is not what I'm suggesting.

    The fact is 2x week training is not only extremely suboptimal compared to 3x week even if that means back-back-back days are dosed appropriately with load management in place.

    Is it optimal to train back to back vs a rest day in between 3x a week? In some cases such as this, no. Is it training 3x week better than training only 2x week in this case? It's been my experience, yes. The benefits outweigh the cons and progress is to be had where as 2x week progress is almost always stale to nil even in best of circumstances.

    Perhaps the OP might be confused how to accomplish this. I'm willing to lay it out if more info is given such as training history, volume, and data on fatigue/stress.

    I don't have a lot of time to respond right now, but again the optimal number of days to do strength training is going to be dependent on the goals of the person. Your goals with regards to that are very much not my goals and I suspect that neither of our goals are the same as the OP's. For example, from everything that I've read, including from an international governing body, rowers should strength train 2-3 days a week. From what I understand, Boston University's men's and women's crew teams strength train twice a week (see this story). Strength training two days a week, as opposed to three, as a very deliberate part of training for rowing, seems far from the exception and is not "sub-optimal".

    Whether or not the OP's goals nessistate three days a week of strength training doesn't appear to be something that any of the commenters currently know, but it's silly to assume that the same methodology and programming should apply to everyone because not everyone has the same goals, let alone the same physiology.

    Perhaps you might be confused. My response to you was not about my goals specifically, but your theory that back to back training is a problem in general. I assure you it is not especially with martial arts as a added activity. Martial arts is no where near as physically demanding as rowing by the way.

    Since for whatever reason you brought up your goal of rowing which I concur just like some sports I mentioned previosly(backetbal, soccer, etc...) requires more recovery than martial arts. It would be more the difficult to recover more than 2x week training in these type of activities.  Rowing itself has substantial resistance training built into the sport so yah, I wouldn't compare rowing to martial arts or dose training the same.

    When I responded to the OP's post/goals it wasn't based on my goals, but rather my experience training people with those goals. But since you brought it up, yes I have had simular goals in the past of resistance training while practicing Aikido for several years. I've also have experience strength training martial artists for decades one individual who successfuly medaled in the Olympics years ago.

    With the OP'S goals in mind we need to dose appropriate stimulus with proper load management.

    2x weekly to achieve hypertrophy is not only tricky early in but near impossible after the initial spurt we see early on in training.

    3x weekly is not only easier to dose, but easier to recover from if we are talking the amount of volume needed to drive progress and hypertrophy.

    I rather see a bro split of sorts of 3/4 days a week than 2x full body. Why? Beacause its more specific to the volume needed towards the OP's goals with recovery in mind. I rather not blast a person with volume, but dose it in amounts that is easily recovered from and practices proper load management long term.

    If the OP'S goal is to experience hypertrophy and MPS then the bottom line is we need properly dose adequate volume that allows adequate recovery to do so.
    If that's what you were responding to, "[my] theory that back to back training is a problem in general." then it's no wonder I was confused, I never actually said that back to back training is a problem. What I said was, "Weight training three days a week would get them more back to back days than it appears they want". Do you see the difference? In that context, your reply didn't actually make much sense.
    I didn't see the OP mention concern for back to back days. Only you replying that martial arts would have to be dropped to one day a week if resistance training 3x a week which certainly is not the case.

    The OP has a reasonable solution/schedule though it's been my experience that taking resistance training from 3x a week down to 2x a week is a last resort in a extremely busy lifestyle that still doesn't yield productive results for the goals the OP stated.
    aokoye wrote: »

    The problem is figuring out how that would work out with the OP's existing martial arts training. Weight training three days a week would get them more back to back days than it appears they want and in order to maintain the number of rest days while also doing three weight training sessions a week, they'd have to drop down to one session of martial arts which seems like a poor idea.

    I've been doing a modified version of stronglifts twice a week along with two to four days of rowing (Wednesdays involve both strength and rowing) four the past 8 or so weeks and I've been seeing quite a lot of progress. This is logical because I'm a beginner, but also depending on what your goals are, you simply don't need to do three days a week of strength training.
    It is not a problem to train 3x a week when we are talking martial arts involved. Nor does one need to drop down to one day of martial arts.

    Once again rowing is not martial arts. I respectively would not bring your goals and a "beginner level" of resistance training that is badtardized and expect to apply the same possible lack of load management and/or auto regulation to the OP resistance training and martial arts.

    I'm only simply giving advice that has worked many years of training and coaching people that involve the OP goals successfully.

    I wish you the best in your goals and training as I will remove myself from trying to change your mind.

    You're making a lot of assumptions that are not actually useful or accurate. I brought up rowing and I also was very quick to say that my goals were not the same as his. It was an example of the fact that not all goals require doing weight training three days a week. I'm not going to quote where I said that my goals are not the same as his, you can go back and read that yourself. I'm not doing your homework.

    My "badtardized" resistance training is actually a plan that was made by a lifting instructor. I didn't just make it up by myself because I know my limits. The issue here isn't so much you trying to change my mind so much as you just aren't reading what I'm writing, aren't reading what I've written, and/or are simply putting words into my mouth (or through my fingers as it were). Also let's be really clear. I wasn't actually giving advice to anyone. Making statements does not always, or even often, equal giving advice. That you decided that my original post was seemingly so egregious as to drive this thread off track is a wonder.

    Good luck.
  • happysquatterhappysquatter Posts: 18Member Member Posts: 18Member Member
    aokoye wrote: »
    Chieflrg wrote: »
    aokoye wrote: »
    Chieflrg wrote: »
    aokoye wrote: »
    Chieflrg wrote: »
    aokoye wrote: »
    Chieflrg wrote: »
    Training history?

    I would suggest resistance training 3x week.

    The problem is figuring out how that would work out with the OP's existing martial arts training. Weight training three days a week would get them more back to back days than it appears they want and in order to maintain the number of rest days while also doing three weight training sessions a week, they'd have to drop down to one session of martial arts which seems like a poor idea.

    I've been doing a modified version of stronglifts twice a week along with two to four days of rowing (Wednesdays involve both strength and rowing) four the past 8 or so weeks and I've been seeing quite a lot of progress. This is logical because I'm a beginner, but also depending on what your goals are, you simply don't need to do three days a week of strength training.

    Its been my experience that the body is very adaptable and can handle useful stress if we dose it correctly.

    Example many many people including myself train back to back days even twice a week(four sessions) on a regular basis. This even including other stimulus including even cardio type activities and recover just fine for progress because of good load management.

    One doesn't need a rest day from martial arts to resistance training or vise versa with proper load management and recovery in mind. We are not talking someone playing soccer or basketball and trying to "increase" strength which is rather difficult.

    I can see a problem trying to run a LP with a poor load management as written such as SL or SS. This is not what I'm suggesting.

    The fact is 2x week training is not only extremely suboptimal compared to 3x week even if that means back-back-back days are dosed appropriately with load management in place.

    Is it optimal to train back to back vs a rest day in between 3x a week? In some cases such as this, no. Is it training 3x week better than training only 2x week in this case? It's been my experience, yes. The benefits outweigh the cons and progress is to be had where as 2x week progress is almost always stale to nil even in best of circumstances.

    Perhaps the OP might be confused how to accomplish this. I'm willing to lay it out if more info is given such as training history, volume, and data on fatigue/stress.

    I don't have a lot of time to respond right now, but again the optimal number of days to do strength training is going to be dependent on the goals of the person. Your goals with regards to that are very much not my goals and I suspect that neither of our goals are the same as the OP's. For example, from everything that I've read, including from an international governing body, rowers should strength train 2-3 days a week. From what I understand, Boston University's men's and women's crew teams strength train twice a week (see this story). Strength training two days a week, as opposed to three, as a very deliberate part of training for rowing, seems far from the exception and is not "sub-optimal".

    Whether or not the OP's goals nessistate three days a week of strength training doesn't appear to be something that any of the commenters currently know, but it's silly to assume that the same methodology and programming should apply to everyone because not everyone has the same goals, let alone the same physiology.

    Perhaps you might be confused. My response to you was not about my goals specifically, but your theory that back to back training is a problem in general. I assure you it is not especially with martial arts as a added activity. Martial arts is no where near as physically demanding as rowing by the way.

    Since for whatever reason you brought up your goal of rowing which I concur just like some sports I mentioned previosly(backetbal, soccer, etc...) requires more recovery than martial arts. It would be more the difficult to recover more than 2x week training in these type of activities.  Rowing itself has substantial resistance training built into the sport so yah, I wouldn't compare rowing to martial arts or dose training the same.

    When I responded to the OP's post/goals it wasn't based on my goals, but rather my experience training people with those goals. But since you brought it up, yes I have had simular goals in the past of resistance training while practicing Aikido for several years. I've also have experience strength training martial artists for decades one individual who successfuly medaled in the Olympics years ago.

    With the OP'S goals in mind we need to dose appropriate stimulus with proper load management.

    2x weekly to achieve hypertrophy is not only tricky early in but near impossible after the initial spurt we see early on in training.

    3x weekly is not only easier to dose, but easier to recover from if we are talking the amount of volume needed to drive progress and hypertrophy.

    I rather see a bro split of sorts of 3/4 days a week than 2x full body. Why? Beacause its more specific to the volume needed towards the OP's goals with recovery in mind. I rather not blast a person with volume, but dose it in amounts that is easily recovered from and practices proper load management long term.

    If the OP'S goal is to experience hypertrophy and MPS then the bottom line is we need properly dose adequate volume that allows adequate recovery to do so.
    If that's what you were responding to, "[my] theory that back to back training is a problem in general." then it's no wonder I was confused, I never actually said that back to back training is a problem. What I said was, "Weight training three days a week would get them more back to back days than it appears they want". Do you see the difference? In that context, your reply didn't actually make much sense.
    I didn't see the OP mention concern for back to back days. Only you replying that martial arts would have to be dropped to one day a week if resistance training 3x a week which certainly is not the case.

    The OP has a reasonable solution/schedule though it's been my experience that taking resistance training from 3x a week down to 2x a week is a last resort in a extremely busy lifestyle that still doesn't yield productive results for the goals the OP stated.
    aokoye wrote: »

    The problem is figuring out how that would work out with the OP's existing martial arts training. Weight training three days a week would get them more back to back days than it appears they want and in order to maintain the number of rest days while also doing three weight training sessions a week, they'd have to drop down to one session of martial arts which seems like a poor idea.

    I've been doing a modified version of stronglifts twice a week along with two to four days of rowing (Wednesdays involve both strength and rowing) four the past 8 or so weeks and I've been seeing quite a lot of progress. This is logical because I'm a beginner, but also depending on what your goals are, you simply don't need to do three days a week of strength training.
    It is not a problem to train 3x a week when we are talking martial arts involved. Nor does one need to drop down to one day of martial arts.

    Once again rowing is not martial arts. I respectively would not bring your goals and a "beginner level" of resistance training that is badtardized and expect to apply the same possible lack of load management and/or auto regulation to the OP resistance training and martial arts.

    I'm only simply giving advice that has worked many years of training and coaching people that involve the OP goals successfully.

    I wish you the best in your goals and training as I will remove myself from trying to change your mind.

    You're making a lot of assumptions that are not actually useful or accurate. I brought up rowing and I also was very quick to say that my goals were not the same as his. It was an example of the fact that not all goals require doing weight training three days a week. I'm not going to quote where I said that my goals are not the same as his, you can go back and read that yourself. I'm not doing your homework.

    My "badtardized" resistance training is actually a plan that was made by a lifting instructor. I didn't just make it up by myself because I know my limits. The issue here isn't so much you trying to change my mind so much as you just aren't reading what I'm writing, aren't reading what I've written, and/or are simply putting words into my mouth (or through my fingers as it were). Also let's be really clear. I wasn't actually giving advice to anyone. Making statements does not always, or even often, equal giving advice. That you decided that my original post was seemingly so egregious as to drive this thread off track is a wonder.

    Good luck.

    Given the information the OP provided, what Chieflrg said makes perfect sense. OP is asking for help in strength building, muscle maintenance and possibly even hypertrophy.

    If those are the goals then one of two things changes, he either adds a day or if he can’t then what he’s asking from the strength/hypertrophy side needs to change. This is not a martial arts forum, the assumption is that he’s going to yield in favour of strength.

    This thread is a dead duck if the OP doesn’t give more info on training history etc.
  • aokoyeaokoye Posts: 3,222Member Member Posts: 3,222Member Member
    aokoye wrote: »
    Chieflrg wrote: »
    aokoye wrote: »
    Chieflrg wrote: »
    aokoye wrote: »
    Chieflrg wrote: »
    aokoye wrote: »
    Chieflrg wrote: »
    Training history?

    I would suggest resistance training 3x week.

    The problem is figuring out how that would work out with the OP's existing martial arts training. Weight training three days a week would get them more back to back days than it appears they want and in order to maintain the number of rest days while also doing three weight training sessions a week, they'd have to drop down to one session of martial arts which seems like a poor idea.

    I've been doing a modified version of stronglifts twice a week along with two to four days of rowing (Wednesdays involve both strength and rowing) four the past 8 or so weeks and I've been seeing quite a lot of progress. This is logical because I'm a beginner, but also depending on what your goals are, you simply don't need to do three days a week of strength training.

    Its been my experience that the body is very adaptable and can handle useful stress if we dose it correctly.

    Example many many people including myself train back to back days even twice a week(four sessions) on a regular basis. This even including other stimulus including even cardio type activities and recover just fine for progress because of good load management.

    One doesn't need a rest day from martial arts to resistance training or vise versa with proper load management and recovery in mind. We are not talking someone playing soccer or basketball and trying to "increase" strength which is rather difficult.

    I can see a problem trying to run a LP with a poor load management as written such as SL or SS. This is not what I'm suggesting.

    The fact is 2x week training is not only extremely suboptimal compared to 3x week even if that means back-back-back days are dosed appropriately with load management in place.

    Is it optimal to train back to back vs a rest day in between 3x a week? In some cases such as this, no. Is it training 3x week better than training only 2x week in this case? It's been my experience, yes. The benefits outweigh the cons and progress is to be had where as 2x week progress is almost always stale to nil even in best of circumstances.

    Perhaps the OP might be confused how to accomplish this. I'm willing to lay it out if more info is given such as training history, volume, and data on fatigue/stress.

    I don't have a lot of time to respond right now, but again the optimal number of days to do strength training is going to be dependent on the goals of the person. Your goals with regards to that are very much not my goals and I suspect that neither of our goals are the same as the OP's. For example, from everything that I've read, including from an international governing body, rowers should strength train 2-3 days a week. From what I understand, Boston University's men's and women's crew teams strength train twice a week (see this story). Strength training two days a week, as opposed to three, as a very deliberate part of training for rowing, seems far from the exception and is not "sub-optimal".

    Whether or not the OP's goals nessistate three days a week of strength training doesn't appear to be something that any of the commenters currently know, but it's silly to assume that the same methodology and programming should apply to everyone because not everyone has the same goals, let alone the same physiology.

    Perhaps you might be confused. My response to you was not about my goals specifically, but your theory that back to back training is a problem in general. I assure you it is not especially with martial arts as a added activity. Martial arts is no where near as physically demanding as rowing by the way.

    Since for whatever reason you brought up your goal of rowing which I concur just like some sports I mentioned previosly(backetbal, soccer, etc...) requires more recovery than martial arts. It would be more the difficult to recover more than 2x week training in these type of activities.  Rowing itself has substantial resistance training built into the sport so yah, I wouldn't compare rowing to martial arts or dose training the same.

    When I responded to the OP's post/goals it wasn't based on my goals, but rather my experience training people with those goals. But since you brought it up, yes I have had simular goals in the past of resistance training while practicing Aikido for several years. I've also have experience strength training martial artists for decades one individual who successfuly medaled in the Olympics years ago.

    With the OP'S goals in mind we need to dose appropriate stimulus with proper load management.

    2x weekly to achieve hypertrophy is not only tricky early in but near impossible after the initial spurt we see early on in training.

    3x weekly is not only easier to dose, but easier to recover from if we are talking the amount of volume needed to drive progress and hypertrophy.

    I rather see a bro split of sorts of 3/4 days a week than 2x full body. Why? Beacause its more specific to the volume needed towards the OP's goals with recovery in mind. I rather not blast a person with volume, but dose it in amounts that is easily recovered from and practices proper load management long term.

    If the OP'S goal is to experience hypertrophy and MPS then the bottom line is we need properly dose adequate volume that allows adequate recovery to do so.
    If that's what you were responding to, "[my] theory that back to back training is a problem in general." then it's no wonder I was confused, I never actually said that back to back training is a problem. What I said was, "Weight training three days a week would get them more back to back days than it appears they want". Do you see the difference? In that context, your reply didn't actually make much sense.
    I didn't see the OP mention concern for back to back days. Only you replying that martial arts would have to be dropped to one day a week if resistance training 3x a week which certainly is not the case.

    The OP has a reasonable solution/schedule though it's been my experience that taking resistance training from 3x a week down to 2x a week is a last resort in a extremely busy lifestyle that still doesn't yield productive results for the goals the OP stated.
    aokoye wrote: »

    The problem is figuring out how that would work out with the OP's existing martial arts training. Weight training three days a week would get them more back to back days than it appears they want and in order to maintain the number of rest days while also doing three weight training sessions a week, they'd have to drop down to one session of martial arts which seems like a poor idea.

    I've been doing a modified version of stronglifts twice a week along with two to four days of rowing (Wednesdays involve both strength and rowing) four the past 8 or so weeks and I've been seeing quite a lot of progress. This is logical because I'm a beginner, but also depending on what your goals are, you simply don't need to do three days a week of strength training.
    It is not a problem to train 3x a week when we are talking martial arts involved. Nor does one need to drop down to one day of martial arts.

    Once again rowing is not martial arts. I respectively would not bring your goals and a "beginner level" of resistance training that is badtardized and expect to apply the same possible lack of load management and/or auto regulation to the OP resistance training and martial arts.

    I'm only simply giving advice that has worked many years of training and coaching people that involve the OP goals successfully.

    I wish you the best in your goals and training as I will remove myself from trying to change your mind.

    You're making a lot of assumptions that are not actually useful or accurate. I brought up rowing and I also was very quick to say that my goals were not the same as his. It was an example of the fact that not all goals require doing weight training three days a week. I'm not going to quote where I said that my goals are not the same as his, you can go back and read that yourself. I'm not doing your homework.

    My "badtardized" resistance training is actually a plan that was made by a lifting instructor. I didn't just make it up by myself because I know my limits. The issue here isn't so much you trying to change my mind so much as you just aren't reading what I'm writing, aren't reading what I've written, and/or are simply putting words into my mouth (or through my fingers as it were). Also let's be really clear. I wasn't actually giving advice to anyone. Making statements does not always, or even often, equal giving advice. That you decided that my original post was seemingly so egregious as to drive this thread off track is a wonder.

    Good luck.

    Given the information the OP provided, what Chieflrg said makes perfect sense. OP is asking for help in strength building, muscle maintenance and possibly even hypertrophy.

    If those are the goals then one of two things changes, he either adds a day or if he can’t then what he’s asking from the strength/hypertrophy side needs to change. This is not a martial arts forum, the assumption is that he’s going to yield in favour of strength.

    This thread is a dead duck if the OP doesn’t give more info on training history etc.

    I agree that this thread is more or less pointless if the OP doesn't give more information about their goals, training history, etc. I think the primary issue is that we don't know what the OP wants to accomplish other than "lose bf, retain muscle mass and hopefully build a bit too" while presumably doing two days of martial arts.

    This isn't a martial arts forum, no but it's also not a weight or strength training forum. This forum is about fitness and exercise in general. A lot of people here do and enjoy resistance training, but that's not to say that that was meant to be the main focus of the forum.
    edited 6:41AM
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