Combining "intuitive eating" with MFP?
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I don't think Intuitive Eating (as defined by Tribole and Resch) and counting calories can coexist, since the core belief of intuitive eating is internal hunger and satiety cues determine when and how much you eat as opposed to external rules.
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I would think that a body would "intuitively" eat to maintain status quo, and not intuitively eat in a calorie deficit. So someone who needs to lose weight should probably first get to a healthy weight before learning to eat intuitively. You can practice identifying your feelings of satiety, etc while losing but just bec youre hungry while trying to lose doesnt necessarily mean your body needs more food.
nope
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I understand the difference between intuitively eating and eating for a calorie goal. I just meant logging after the fact because of keeping an eye on macros or micros or whatever.3
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I don't think Intuitive Eating (as defined by Tribole and Resch) and counting calories can coexist, since the core belief of intuitive eating is internal hunger and satiety cues determine when and how much you eat as opposed to external rules.
I think it could be a tool for a while, so that you understood how many cals you were eating and thus if you needed to figure out why you were not feeling sated on maintenance cals and could adjust or some such.
But then I don't find the concept of intuitive eating (vs. mindful eating, which I do like) to the extent it is based on the idea that just learning to listen to hunger signals is enough and that most people overeat because they eat when not hungry (for example, satiety signals may kick in a bit after you finish eating and many people find they are hungry at times they are used to eating and -- especially -- many things other than calories needed may determine how hungry/sated you feel).
I thought the OP's things she is working on sounded in some ways like mindful eating and could be consistent with calorie counting, at least for a while (and certainly when trying to lose), whatever one calls it.0 -
I just want to add to the "stop when your not hungry" part (it's probably beside the point) but I stop eating before I'm not hungry anymore. It takes about 20min for what I ate to make me feel satisfied. When I was overweight I ate till I was full. I haven't been weighing every bite every day lately but I do weigh food at least one meal a day2
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Yeah - agree with the above poster. The Stop when you're full part I think is what gets most people in trouble.0
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BoxerBrawler wrote: »Yeah - agree with the above poster. The Stop when you're full part I think is what gets most people in trouble.
Well... I think Comfortably full is a better term
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Intuitive eating only worked for me when I was in artificial situations where my main food choices were high-volume/very filling for the calorie/low-calorie foods and my access to hyper-palatable/calorie-dense foods was severely limited.
So when I have an American kitchen and access to American supermarkets, my "intuition" will not keep me in a calorie deficit.3 -
kshama2001 wrote: »Intuitive eating only worked for me when I was in artificial situations where my main food choices were high-volume/very filling for the calorie/low-calorie foods and my access to hyper-palatable/calorie-dense foods was severely limited.
So when I have an American kitchen and access to American supermarkets, my "intuition" will not keep me in a calorie deficit.
I like you...😊4 -
psychod787 wrote: »BoxerBrawler wrote: »Yeah - agree with the above poster. The Stop when you're full part I think is what gets most people in trouble.
Well... I think Comfortably full is a better term
..
For me, that's still a problem. It's a conspiracy of 2 faults: I tend to eat very fast, and it takes a surprisingly long time for my satiety signals to register. (Maybe it's only that 20 minutes that people talk about - where does that claim come from, BTW? - but it seems much longer, like maybe an hour.)
I've figured out how to game this to maintain weight, but I'm sure these were factors in my gaining and maintaining obesity in the first place.
And yes, I did and do routinely prefer nutrient dense foods. Still don't feel "comfortably full" until waaaay too late for that to provide intuitive guidance.
Others may differ, of course.7 -
In my symphony of a week there are probably some notes of intuitive eating. I will often eat different amounts. Seasonally I eat different percentages of macros. Both of these happen organically. However, it is all still logged and therefore managed because I have no interest in putting too much trust in "listening to my body" because that is how I got fat.
IMO with the amount of weight I gained the IE ship has sailed and need not ever return to this port. Obesity is caused in part by modern conveniences for which intuition may not always account. I might as well use a modernized solution to help me navigate my weight management.4 -
Intuitive eating would work fine for me if I didn't intuitively want more cookies even after I was full!17
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I think this is a big part of the problem. Like, how can our intuition account for "Panera Bread Kitchen Sink Cookie" which has 800 calories per cookie, or Sonic's Peanut Butter & Cookie Dough Dream Master Blast, which has 2,300 calories? Sure, we may be able to say, "This is going to have a lot of calories," but if we don't sit down and look it up, are we really going to understand what it means? Our hunger triggers don't sit down and say, "I had a Sonic's Peanut Butter & Cookie Dough Dream Master Blast, that's it for the day!" or "One Panera Bread Kitchen Sink Cookie at lunch and one at dinner takes up most of my daily calories!" because our bodies aren't formulated that way. The way a lot of our food is made circumvents what our bodies feel.In my symphony of a week there are probably some notes of intuitive eating. I will often eat different amounts. Seasonally I eat different percentages of macros. Both of these happen organically. However, it is all still logged and therefore managed because I have no interest in putting too much trust in "listening to my body" because that is how I got fat.
IMO with the amount of weight I gained the IE ship has sailed and need not ever return to this port. Obesity is caused in part by modern conveniences for which intuition may not always account. I might as well use a modernized solution to help me navigate my weight management.8 -
PrismaticPhoenix wrote: »
I think this is a big part of the problem. Like, how can our intuition account for "Panera Bread Kitchen Sink Cookie" which has 800 calories per cookie, or Sonic's Peanut Butter & Cookie Dough Dream Master Blast, which has 2,300 calories? Sure, we may be able to say, "This is going to have a lot of calories," but if we don't sit down and look it up, are we really going to understand what it means? Our hunger triggers don't sit down and say, "I had a Sonic's Peanut Butter & Cookie Dough Dream Master Blast, that's it for the day!" or "One Panera Bread Kitchen Sink Cookie at lunch and one at dinner takes up most of my daily calories!" because our bodies aren't formulated that way. The way a lot of our food is made circumvents what our bodies feel.In my symphony of a week there are probably some notes of intuitive eating. I will often eat different amounts. Seasonally I eat different percentages of macros. Both of these happen organically. However, it is all still logged and therefore managed because I have no interest in putting too much trust in "listening to my body" because that is how I got fat.
IMO with the amount of weight I gained the IE ship has sailed and need not ever return to this port. Obesity is caused in part by modern conveniences for which intuition may not always account. I might as well use a modernized solution to help me navigate my weight management.
As I understand it true IE would have no regard for the calories at all. If you ate 1000 calories today that was in excess of your needs tomorrow you would eat less without even realizing you were doing it. I will sometimes naturally eat less after a big calorie day but that only works when I am eating food from home. My instincts are for what I know best. If I eat at a restaurant two days in a row without mindful eating I am sure I would eat too much both days. I also believe that my calories would start to creep up at home over time. It is mindfulness that keeps everything in check and I can't think of one good reason to trust intuition other than letting it guide in small ways.5 -
PrismaticPhoenix wrote: »
I think this is a big part of the problem. Like, how can our intuition account for "Panera Bread Kitchen Sink Cookie" which has 800 calories per cookie, or Sonic's Peanut Butter & Cookie Dough Dream Master Blast, which has 2,300 calories? Sure, we may be able to say, "This is going to have a lot of calories," but if we don't sit down and look it up, are we really going to understand what it means? Our hunger triggers don't sit down and say, "I had a Sonic's Peanut Butter & Cookie Dough Dream Master Blast, that's it for the day!" or "One Panera Bread Kitchen Sink Cookie at lunch and one at dinner takes up most of my daily calories!" because our bodies aren't formulated that way. The way a lot of our food is made circumvents what our bodies feel.In my symphony of a week there are probably some notes of intuitive eating. I will often eat different amounts. Seasonally I eat different percentages of macros. Both of these happen organically. However, it is all still logged and therefore managed because I have no interest in putting too much trust in "listening to my body" because that is how I got fat.
IMO with the amount of weight I gained the IE ship has sailed and need not ever return to this port. Obesity is caused in part by modern conveniences for which intuition may not always account. I might as well use a modernized solution to help me navigate my weight management.
I know it's not true for everyone, but I personally would probably feel those calories and feel pretty sick after (I probably wouldn't get through it in one go it would take me all day). I always try to "trick" my body when I'm gaining with calorie dense foods and high calorie smoothies (900-1000cals or so) and they are so tough to get down then I'm not hungry for the rest of the day. Reducing volume and fibre helps but I am still full and uncomfortable so it's something I accept during that time.2 -
I feel like some of this thread is coming from a quasi-religious view, more than a practical one.
It's seemingly true that the official rules of Intuitive Eating (TM) say calorie counting is a bad thing. And, on the other hand, many of us (me included) seem to successfully use calorie counting as a substitute for "intuition" that's broken in one way or another.
Looking at it from a practical perspective, in this or other threads, almost all of us admit to some personal rules, habits, practices, or insights around eating, that - if we're lucky - we put together into some kind of overall practice that helps us attain and maintain a healthy weight.
OP reports having in the past had some fairly troubling emotional issues related to food and eating, and worked with an "Intuitive Eating" coach to get to the bottom of them, and has begun to have more intentional agency over her eating. I think that's absolutely wonderful. Big progress!
On the down side, while doing that, she gained weight she'd like to lose, alongside being more intuitive and gaining these very useful insights. That implies that new strategies could be helpful.
From a practical perspective, I don't see why she can't take those insights and practices she's learned working with her intuitive eating coach, and experiment to see whether calorie counting is a tool she can use in a healthy way to find and wire in her own personal, idiosyncratic, useful, and we hope ultimately successful set of rules, habits, practices and insights. Why not?
A bunch of my fellow hippie types from the 1960s pulled little happy bits out of diverse (and sometimes contradictory) traditional spiritual practices of structured religions around the world, to make their own weirdly personal and happy personal religions. I don't see why OP can't do likewise with various methods of organizing her eating.
It's certainly worth a try. :flowerforyou:9 -
Absolutely love this post.
I’ve found it to be a great educational tool, especially for macros. I tend to get obsessive and can be guilt prone when I go into the red so I use it as a log infrequently —ideally 1-2 days/wk— to find that balance between informed and sanity.0 -
Intuitive eating would work fine for me if I didn't intuitively want more cookies even after I was full!
My Intuitive Cooking thinks I need to make Chai Sugar Cookies...
My recipe is in a cookbook, but I think this is it: https://slate.com/human-interest/2010/04/cook-s-illustrated-chai-spice-sugar-cookies.html
Oh, and I got some rye flour for a cookie recipe which seemed kind of pointless so next time I will just use regular flour, and now my Intuitive Cooking says I need to make rye bread or rye rolls:
https://www.177milkstreet.com/recipes/pumpkin-seed-rolls
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kshama2001 wrote: »
https://www.177milkstreet.com/recipes/pumpkin-seed-rollsIntuitive eating would work fine for me if I didn't intuitively want more cookies even after I was full!
I'm not sure these pictures are helping me!
My balanced nutrition is way down due to trying to (mostly in vain) balance out the intuitive cookies with mindful soup and 0% yogurt!
At least the scale is inching up as opposed to ballooning, which all da intuitive cookies AND foodz would surely do!!!
(Yes, I log the cookies, even at maintenance, though not before I eat them as I would if I were really trying to mindfully avoid eating them)1 -
kshama2001 wrote: »
https://www.177milkstreet.com/recipes/pumpkin-seed-rollsIntuitive eating would work fine for me if I didn't intuitively want more cookies even after I was full!
I'm not sure these pictures are helping me!
My balanced nutrition is way down due to trying to (mostly in vain) balance out the intuitive cookies with mindful soup and 0% yogurt!
At least the scale is inching up as opposed to ballooning, which all da intuitive cookies AND foodz would surely do!!!
(Yes, I log the cookies, even at maintenance, though not before I eat them as I would if I were really trying to mindfully avoid eating them)
The rolls were so good! (Saving the cookie baking for another day.)
I love cooking with yeast but used to be completely unable to moderate, so don't do much of it. Ate two rolls, saved two, and froze the rest.
I thought they would be done way before dinner but there were three rises and other sitting time, so they were actually done cooling just 15 minutes before dinner.
Next time I'm not going to toast the 1/2 cup of seeds that goes on the top as that came out a little over done. And I could only get 1/4 C to stick, so will reduce to that next time.2 -
I tried intuitive eating yesterday where I ate according to fullness and wrote my food down in my notes. Turns out I was severely undereating! I’d only hit 1200 calories and I had exercised heavy that day! Unbelievable. I had to make myself a pizza so I could hit 1900.2
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I don't understand why calorie counting and intuitive eating have to be mutually exclusive. You can still eat when you're hungry and stop when you're satisfied but still log calories for a better idea on how that's working out or if you pay attention to macros.
(It wouldn't work out for me. My appetite will always be bigger than my stomach.
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This...I feel that when you start out logging what you eat makes you realize where you can improve. Logging how you feel after you certain food can be VERY valuable. For example, when I eat only pancakes for breakfast, I'm starving in an hour and want a nap. If I eat eggs and bacon I last until lunch easily without even thinking about food and not needing a nap.
I know after years of research how certain foods will affect me and if it's worth eating them. Yes, lots of you will disagree with this, but some food just makes me feel like crap....LOL
Yet, if I tried to eat intuitively I'd still gain weight because my body wants more food that it needs...
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kristen8000 wrote: »I don't understand why calorie counting and intuitive eating have to be mutually exclusive. You can still eat when you're hungry and stop when you're satisfied but still log calories for a better idea on how that's working out or if you pay attention to macros.
(It wouldn't work out for me. My appetite will always be bigger than my stomach. )
This...I feel that when you start out logging what you eat makes you realize where you can improve. Logging how you feel after you certain food can be VERY valuable. For example, when I eat only pancakes for breakfast, I'm starving in an hour and want a nap. If I eat eggs and bacon I last until lunch easily without even thinking about food and not needing a nap.
I know after years of research how certain foods will affect me and if it's worth eating them. Yes, lots of you will disagree with this, but some food just makes me feel like crap....LOL
Yet, if I tried to eat intuitively I'd still gain weight because my body wants more food that it needs...
I'm exactly the same with pancakes vs bacon and eggs.
Sometimes I will have pancakes for dinner, but never for breakfast.1 -
Hi, I just had a moment to read this (as I am new), is anyone looking for support with intuitive eating?1
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