Insulin and weight gain

brismum10
brismum10 Posts: 25 Member
in Health and Weight Loss
Hi there I've been a member of my fitness pal for a while now I lost 55kgs from my highest weight, however since I am a type 2 insulin dependent diabetic I have gained 15 kgs in a matter of months, I'm just wondering if anyone has anytips for minimising or preferably losing weight while on insulin. I take metformin also which is supposed to help but doesn't for me

Replies

  • CardinalComb
    CardinalComb Posts: 66 Member
    Cut the carbs and cure your diabetes
  • SLL1803
    SLL1803 Posts: 49 Member
    I would strongly suggest you need to speak to your medical team. This is not something for strangers on the internet.
  • psychod787
    psychod787 Posts: 4,099 Member
    curwhibbles wrote: »
    I’ve been taking insulin since 1985. It does not make you gain. Calories do. Beginning diagnosis can cause havoc...makes sense to take in too many calories. Plus, eating for lows counts! Just cause it saves your *kitten* does not mean it saves your waist 😂
    Low carb is your best bet. It will save your life. Read Dr Bernstein and stick with it. Don’t let the endocrinologist bully you into eating carbs. Or other people, for that matter.

    Only a Sith deals in absolutes. If you gained weight while taking insulin, it's because of fuel mobility. DM2 sign and symptom can be weight loss. Your body cant use the glucose. When you add insulin, glucose can be used for fuel. Insulin did not cause your weight gain, too many calories did. If beta cells are not completely destroyed, you can send your DM into with a high carb diet If you lose weight. Could go low carb if you wish, as long as the weight comes off, your DM will most likely get better.
  • psychod787
    psychod787 Posts: 4,099 Member
    rheddmobile wrote: »
    Lillymoo01 wrote: »
    curwhibbles wrote: »
    I’ve been taking insulin since 1985. It does not make you gain. Calories do. Beginning diagnosis can cause havoc...makes sense to take in too many calories. Plus, eating for lows counts! Just cause it saves your *kitten* does not mean it saves your waist 😂
    Low carb is your best bet. It will save your life. Read Dr Bernstein and stick with it. Don’t let the endocrinologist bully you into eating carbs. Or other people, for that matter.

    Don't listen to a specialist in the field but listen to a stranger on the internet with no relevant qualifications? That sounds like REALLY crappy advice if you ask me.

    In this case, the specialists in the field have very low standards and get very poor results. With a low carb diet it’s possible to greatly reduce or in many cases eliminate the need for insulin, and live a normal, healthy life. Following the ADA standard diet and operating on the principle that “a1c below 8 is fine” and “tight control is dangerous” leads to a lifetime of disability and early death for the overwhelming majority of diabetics.

    Living successfully with diabetes IS a qualification. And Dr Bernstein, unlike the majority of endos, actually practices evidence- based science. The diet I was recommended by “specialists in the field” would have kept my blood glucose high and I would be on insulin today and suffering the cardiovascular problems that result from constant yoyo glucose levels. Instead my blood glucose is normal, a1c is normal. And I live a healthy life.

    Well, do you have a magic glass that tells the future? I get your point and state again low carb can be one Avenue for management of DM. I do wonder if some of the success of lower carb diets on dm is the increase in protein. Many of the new classes of dm management drugs like victoza, boost glp1 as its primary action. Glp 1 is a satiety hormone and releases glucagon from the liver which helps level bs..... protein does the same thing. I wonder if a more moderate carb higher protein diet could be effective if weight loss is achieved. Hmmm. No evidence to back up my thoughts, but I am going to look into it.
  • rheddmobile
    rheddmobile Posts: 6,840 Member
    psychod787 wrote: »
    rheddmobile wrote: »
    Lillymoo01 wrote: »
    curwhibbles wrote: »
    I’ve been taking insulin since 1985. It does not make you gain. Calories do. Beginning diagnosis can cause havoc...makes sense to take in too many calories. Plus, eating for lows counts! Just cause it saves your *kitten* does not mean it saves your waist 😂
    Low carb is your best bet. It will save your life. Read Dr Bernstein and stick with it. Don’t let the endocrinologist bully you into eating carbs. Or other people, for that matter.

    Don't listen to a specialist in the field but listen to a stranger on the internet with no relevant qualifications? That sounds like REALLY crappy advice if you ask me.

    In this case, the specialists in the field have very low standards and get very poor results. With a low carb diet it’s possible to greatly reduce or in many cases eliminate the need for insulin, and live a normal, healthy life. Following the ADA standard diet and operating on the principle that “a1c below 8 is fine” and “tight control is dangerous” leads to a lifetime of disability and early death for the overwhelming majority of diabetics.

    Living successfully with diabetes IS a qualification. And Dr Bernstein, unlike the majority of endos, actually practices evidence- based science. The diet I was recommended by “specialists in the field” would have kept my blood glucose high and I would be on insulin today and suffering the cardiovascular problems that result from constant yoyo glucose levels. Instead my blood glucose is normal, a1c is normal. And I live a healthy life.

    Well, do you have a magic glass that tells the future? I get your point and state again low carb can be one Avenue for management of DM. I do wonder if some of the success of lower carb diets on dm is the increase in protein. Many of the new classes of dm management drugs like victoza, boost glp1 as its primary action. Glp 1 is a satiety hormone and releases glucagon from the liver which helps level bs..... protein does the same thing. I wonder if a more moderate carb higher protein diet could be effective if weight loss is achieved. Hmmm. No evidence to back up my thoughts, but I am going to look into it.

    Diabetes is a disease which causes failure to metabolize carbs. That is what it is. For some people, in early stages, weight loss can help reverse insulin resistance. For others, it doesn’t. Many diabetics do well on a moderate carb diet - I personally can eat as much as 200g net carbs per day if I time it to my exercise.

    That has almost nothing to do with this case, which has to do with someone who is well past that point and taking injected insulin. A certain amount of insulin is needed in order to metabolize a certain amount of carb. Lowering carb intake (and also protein intake in the case of a type 1 diabetic since insulin is also needed to metabolize protein) reduces the amount of insulin that needs to be injected. Period. No one disputes this. And since all injected insulin works very poorly compared to naturally produced insulin, arriving in the body slowly and remaining in the body long after it’s needed, reducing the amount of injected insulin as much as possible is a good thing.
  • liftingbro
    liftingbro Posts: 2,029 Member
    Diabetes is complicated. Generally speaking, lower carb diets are better for Type 2 diabetics. It's not a cure, it may not fully control your diabetes. I would ask your Dr. about it and see about doing a trial on a lower carb diet and see if you find it easier to lose weight.

    Insulin does, in fact, cause you to store fat more readily but you have to be eating in a surplus. OTOH, insulin also increase protein synthesis so you build muscle easier as well. It's one reason some bodybuilders use it.

  • rheddmobile
    rheddmobile Posts: 6,840 Member
    Lillymoo01 wrote: »
    rheddmobile wrote: »
    Lillymoo01 wrote: »
    curwhibbles wrote: »
    I’ve been taking insulin since 1985. It does not make you gain. Calories do. Beginning diagnosis can cause havoc...makes sense to take in too many calories. Plus, eating for lows counts! Just cause it saves your *kitten* does not mean it saves your waist 😂
    Low carb is your best bet. It will save your life. Read Dr Bernstein and stick with it. Don’t let the endocrinologist bully you into eating carbs. Or other people, for that matter.

    Don't listen to a specialist in the field but listen to a stranger on the internet with no relevant qualifications? That sounds like REALLY crappy advice if you ask me.

    In this case, the specialists in the field have very low standards and get very poor results. With a low carb diet it’s possible to greatly reduce or in many cases eliminate the need for insulin, and live a normal, healthy life. Following the ADA standard diet and operating on the principle that “a1c below 8 is fine” and “tight control is dangerous” leads to a lifetime of disability and early death for the overwhelming majority of diabetics.

    Living successfully with diabetes IS a qualification. And Dr Bernstein, unlike the majority of endos, actually practices evidence- based science. The diet I was recommended by “specialists in the field” would have kept my blood glucose high and I would be on insulin today and suffering the cardiovascular problems that result from constant yoyo glucose levels. Instead my blood glucose is normal, a1c is normal. And I live a healthy life.

    A person brings with them a wealth of knowledge and they are experts in their own right on what works for them. However, I am certain that an endocrinologist would be well aware that reducing carbs can have a significant impact on insulin. I am even more certain that they have comprehensive knowledge of what works best for a medication-free lifestyle for the patients they see. Specialist are always having to update their training to take into account the latest research and have a stronger data point than the individual patients N=1.

    That’s not actually valid. In this case the professional association is a bad one with outdated guidelines, and most doctors cleave to the guidelines in defiance of the latest research. There are good endos, but the average one is mediocre, and the average GP treating diabetes is worse than that.

    No two diabetics are alike, and no one will advocate for you. You have to test your own blood and know your own body.
  • IAmGainingHealth
    IAmGainingHealth Posts: 18 Member
    I use an Omnipod system to manage my insulin, and Dexcom system to monitor my BG.

    I am on Jardiance, Metformin, and Ozempic.

    My new endrocrinologist said I needed to decrease my use of insulin and doubled my metformin.

    More insulin usage can cause weight gain.
  • lemurcat2
    lemurcat2 Posts: 7,885 Member
    Lillymoo01 wrote: »
    rheddmobile wrote: »
    Lillymoo01 wrote: »
    curwhibbles wrote: »
    I’ve been taking insulin since 1985. It does not make you gain. Calories do. Beginning diagnosis can cause havoc...makes sense to take in too many calories. Plus, eating for lows counts! Just cause it saves your *kitten* does not mean it saves your waist 😂
    Low carb is your best bet. It will save your life. Read Dr Bernstein and stick with it. Don’t let the endocrinologist bully you into eating carbs. Or other people, for that matter.

    Don't listen to a specialist in the field but listen to a stranger on the internet with no relevant qualifications? That sounds like REALLY crappy advice if you ask me.

    In this case, the specialists in the field have very low standards and get very poor results. With a low carb diet it’s possible to greatly reduce or in many cases eliminate the need for insulin, and live a normal, healthy life. Following the ADA standard diet and operating on the principle that “a1c below 8 is fine” and “tight control is dangerous” leads to a lifetime of disability and early death for the overwhelming majority of diabetics.

    Living successfully with diabetes IS a qualification. And Dr Bernstein, unlike the majority of endos, actually practices evidence- based science. The diet I was recommended by “specialists in the field” would have kept my blood glucose high and I would be on insulin today and suffering the cardiovascular problems that result from constant yoyo glucose levels. Instead my blood glucose is normal, a1c is normal. And I live a healthy life.

    A person brings with them a wealth of knowledge and they are experts in their own right on what works for them. However, I am certain that an endocrinologist would be well aware that reducing carbs can have a significant impact on insulin. I am even more certain that they have comprehensive knowledge of what works best for a medication-free lifestyle for the patients they see. Specialist are always having to update their training to take into account the latest research and have a stronger data point than the individual patients N=1.

    Indeed. Many people on MFP (and also people I've known offline) have had excellent experiences with diabetes educators who recommended moderate carbs with protein and fiber, and not going straight to low carb/keto. Many of them seem to have found that following that advice and losing weight actually meant that they did not have an atypical reaction to consuming carbs, even not in that moderated fashion, although they still generally eat in a careful fashion most of the time even so.
  • lemurcat2
    lemurcat2 Posts: 7,885 Member
    edited January 2020
    psychod787 wrote: »
    rheddmobile wrote: »
    Lillymoo01 wrote: »
    curwhibbles wrote: »
    I’ve been taking insulin since 1985. It does not make you gain. Calories do. Beginning diagnosis can cause havoc...makes sense to take in too many calories. Plus, eating for lows counts! Just cause it saves your *kitten* does not mean it saves your waist 😂
    Low carb is your best bet. It will save your life. Read Dr Bernstein and stick with it. Don’t let the endocrinologist bully you into eating carbs. Or other people, for that matter.

    Don't listen to a specialist in the field but listen to a stranger on the internet with no relevant qualifications? That sounds like REALLY crappy advice if you ask me.

    In this case, the specialists in the field have very low standards and get very poor results. With a low carb diet it’s possible to greatly reduce or in many cases eliminate the need for insulin, and live a normal, healthy life. Following the ADA standard diet and operating on the principle that “a1c below 8 is fine” and “tight control is dangerous” leads to a lifetime of disability and early death for the overwhelming majority of diabetics.

    Living successfully with diabetes IS a qualification. And Dr Bernstein, unlike the majority of endos, actually practices evidence- based science. The diet I was recommended by “specialists in the field” would have kept my blood glucose high and I would be on insulin today and suffering the cardiovascular problems that result from constant yoyo glucose levels. Instead my blood glucose is normal, a1c is normal. And I live a healthy life.

    Well, do you have a magic glass that tells the future? I get your point and state again low carb can be one Avenue for management of DM. I do wonder if some of the success of lower carb diets on dm is the increase in protein. Many of the new classes of dm management drugs like victoza, boost glp1 as its primary action. Glp 1 is a satiety hormone and releases glucagon from the liver which helps level bs..... protein does the same thing. I wonder if a more moderate carb higher protein diet could be effective if weight loss is achieved. Hmmm. No evidence to back up my thoughts, but I am going to look into it.

    Insulin is controlled by not consuming carbs, of course -- that's why low carb works -- but that does not automatically result in weight loss or the correction of the IR problem should carbs be consumed (as this OP may not be producing insulin anymore this may not be specifically relevant and I would never try to tell someone with a medical issue under a doctor's treatment what to do anyway). With respect to the more general question, I'd think the desired outcome is no longer being IR, if possible, and it's clearly the case that many have controlled and turned around the condition with moderate carb healthy diets, not only low carb, and in particular by losing weight.

    Indeed, it's not uncommon for even higher carb (but healthy and high fiber) WFPB diets to reduce IR, so the claim that keto is the one true answer seems quite wrong to me. That said, I'd recommend that anyone with T2D, especially if on insulin -- and like anyone with a serious diagnosed medical condition -- follow the advice of their medical professional or if not comfortable with that advice seek a second opinion.
  • candylilacs
    candylilacs Posts: 614 Member
    Metformin gave me diarrhea all day. Keto gave me the skills that I needed to keep the carbs down. I really have a problem with diabetes type 2 “going into remission” and you’ll still have type 2 diAabetes. A1c is normal 5.6 and under. You don’t have a diabetes. That’s like a normal person 110/72 and hypertensive. I’m not big on doctors telling you whoppers.
  • psychod787
    psychod787 Posts: 4,099 Member
    edited January 2020
    rheddmobile wrote: »
    candylilacs wrote: »
    Metformin gave me diarrhea all day. Keto gave me the skills that I needed to keep the carbs down. I really have a problem with diabetes type 2 “going into remission” and you’ll still have type 2 diAabetes. A1c is normal 5.6 and under. You don’t have a diabetes. That’s like a normal person 110/72 and hypertensive. I’m not big on doctors telling you whoppers.

    This isn’t valid. Hypertension refers to that number - if your blood pressure is high, you have hypertension. Diabetes does not refer to that number, it refers to the body’s inability to metabolize carbs properly. The various numbers - a1c and your fasting blood glucose, etc. - are not a measure of diabetes, just a marker of the symptoms of diabetes. You can have a completely normal a1c - mine is 4.9 at the moment which is in the middle of the normal range - and still be unable to metabolize carbs properly, either because you have insulin resistance or most commonly because most type 2 diabetics lose the ability to produce a first stage insulin reaction in order to quickly respond to ingested carbs and keep blood sugar even after eating. If you are controlling your blood glucose by never eating carbs, that isn’t the same as being a healthy person with a healthy pancreas, liver, and cellular mechanism, who can eat a ton of carbs without seeing dangerously high blood sugar numbers. For example, despite having normal a1c and a fasting glucose this morning of 96, if I were to go right now and eat a big bowl of rice from Panda Express, my glucose would probably top 180. Anything above 150 is actively doing damage to your nervous system and circulatory system at that moment. So yes, despite my good control I still have diabetes. If you only have good numbers because you are eating keto, you still have diabetes.

    While I am not an advocate for a "high" carb diet for a diet diabetic. I would say your example of eating a large bowl of rice "plain" is invalid. MOST people are not going to eat a bowl of rice in isolation. They are going to eat it with some fat, fiber, and protein. Might not stop the overall load, but will low the release. Still does not change the research I read where people were "magically" cured by high carb ultra low fat diets. Their symptoms disappeared when they lost weight. I personally don't think you can "cure" diabetes. Maybe remission, though there is some research on pancreatic cell regeneration... Fuzzy at best in my opinion. On the flip side, there is some research that a high fat diet might increase insulin resistance over time..... Its just really murky @rheddmobile
  • magnusthenerd
    magnusthenerd Posts: 1,207 Member
    rheddmobile wrote: »
    candylilacs wrote: »
    Metformin gave me diarrhea all day. Keto gave me the skills that I needed to keep the carbs down. I really have a problem with diabetes type 2 “going into remission” and you’ll still have type 2 diAabetes. A1c is normal 5.6 and under. You don’t have a diabetes. That’s like a normal person 110/72 and hypertensive. I’m not big on doctors telling you whoppers.

    This isn’t valid. Hypertension refers to that number - if your blood pressure is high, you have hypertension. Diabetes does not refer to that number, it refers to the body’s inability to metabolize carbs properly. The various numbers - a1c and your fasting blood glucose, etc. - are not a measure of diabetes, just a marker of the symptoms of diabetes. You can have a completely normal a1c - mine is 4.9 at the moment which is in the middle of the normal range - and still be unable to metabolize carbs properly, either because you have insulin resistance or most commonly because most type 2 diabetics lose the ability to produce a first stage insulin reaction in order to quickly respond to ingested carbs and keep blood sugar even after eating. If you are controlling your blood glucose by never eating carbs, that isn’t the same as being a healthy person with a healthy pancreas, liver, and cellular mechanism, who can eat a ton of carbs without seeing dangerously high blood sugar numbers. For example, despite having normal a1c and a fasting glucose this morning of 96, if I were to go right now and eat a big bowl of rice from Panda Express, my glucose would probably top 180. Anything above 150 is actively doing damage to your nervous system and circulatory system at that moment. So yes, despite my good control I still have diabetes. If you only have good numbers because you are eating keto, you still have diabetes.

    Except, as an etiology, diabetes's first sign is not a carbohydrate metabolism problem, but actually a problem of lipid metabolisms. It is just that it becomes glaringly obvious and diagnosiable once the glucose metabolisms issues how up. If it was easy to detect early that people have ectopic fat distribution issues, diabetes would probably have a rather different diagnosis criteria.
    I think it is John Yudkin who even argues diabetes arguably isn't a disease, but prognosis of issues, and that's why he hate the idea of diagnosing people with pre-diabtes because now you're giving a prognosis of a prognosis of future disease states, not actually dealing with an actual disease.
  • magnusthenerd
    magnusthenerd Posts: 1,207 Member
    Clarification, when initially starting insulin, yes it can cause some weight gain. It isn't violating thermodynamics, so calm down people. What happens is previously, glucose was free circulating in the blood. Insulin will increase uptake into fat cells for esterification, it will increase muscle tissue uptake, and it will reduce liver release. Glucose stored in the liver and muscle cells will involve storage as glycogen which means storing water at about a 3-4x the weight of glucose stored.

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